Should Native American Nations be made independent countries

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Aren’t a few of them independent entities inside the US? Not sure about First Nations in Canada.

Autonomous but not fully independent. It is very complicated. They have to abide by some but not all state and local laws. But still have to follow federal law.
Streamlining the legal system would help a lot, right now they do not have borders the same as counties, so a reservation might be part in one county, part in another. That is unnecessarily complicated and fairly easy to address, by redrawing county and municipal borders to fully align with the reservation borders. At least then you eliminate one extra level of bureaucracy (because the county and reservation government would then be the same entity not separate ones as it is now). Really though we need to provide substantial improvements in infrastructure, to make sure they have electricity and running water at least.

Plus develop local agriculture, light industry and tourist opportunities.

I seem to recall you have a discipline in law that deals exclusively with Native American tribe treaties and all that and is exceedingly complex.

Agreed, we should strive to make sure they have electricity, water, food and healthcare. CoVID19 has been catastrophic for everyone but especially reservations.

[Azstaria]

That would mean no more federal dollars for them

[Novus America]

Autonomous but not fully independent. It is very complicated. They have to abide by some but not all state and local laws. But still have to follow federal law.
Streamlining the legal system would help a lot, right now they do not have borders the same as counties, so a reservation might be part in one county, part in another. That is unnecessarily complicated and fairly easy to address, by redrawing county and municipal borders to fully align with the reservation borders. At least then you eliminate one extra level of bureaucracy (because the county and reservation government would then be the same entity not separate ones as it is now). Really though we need to provide substantial improvements in infrastructure, to make sure they have electricity and running water at least.

Plus develop local agriculture, light industry and tourist opportunities.

I seem to recall you have a discipline in law that deals exclusively with Native American tribe treaties and all that and is exceedingly complex.

Agreed, we should strive to make sure they have electricity, water, food and healthcare. CoVID19 has been catastrophic for everyone but especially reservations.

I do not have an official degree or class directly pertaining to Tribal Law and I do not wish to get into the details of my education, job experience and licenses here too much. But I have done some reading and research on the matter.

It is an area we often overlook but that is interesting to me. I have policy ideas on nearly everything down to some very hyper specific ones such as how exactly to extend a certain highway or fix and inconsistent highway number, and the reservations is not something I have ignored unlike most our politicians.

Actually we do provide them Healthcare:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Health_Service
More than most other groups in the US actually although the IHS has chronic funding issues.
So certainly it could still be improved.

But we absolutely need some sort of development fund to help provide them the very least with electricity and ensure running water and sewer access.
In many cases they do not even have those.

Another idea I have, not specific to reservations that would hugely help them is the US Post Office used to provide basic banking services.

We should do that again, not only would it provide something relevant to replace the reduction in paper mail, it would help solve “banking deserts”. Many reservations lack a single bank. But still have a Post Office. This would help some other remote and impoverished areas as well.

[Rojava Free State]

That would mean no more federal dollars for them

Yeah, it really would.

[Salus Maior]

I've heard an interesting theory that granting certain reservations statehood might be effective in resolving some of their problems.

This can't work for every reservation though.

[Rojava Free State]

I've heard an interesting theory that granting certain reservations statehood might be effective in resolving some of their problems.

This can't work for every reservation though.

Pine Ridge becomes the 51st state lol.

[Novus America]

That would mean no more federal dollars for them

Yeah, it really would.

Plus honestly how can a tiny country land locked by a single country really be independent?
Even if de facto they are still going to be reliant on an dominated by the surrounding power.

They would still have to do all their foreign trade and travel through us, thus they would not be really independent. They would have to sign all sorts of trade agreements and travel agreements with us, plus depend on us for so much they would end up in a similar situation but perhaps worse, because we having all the leverage could impose very one side deals on them.

Without actually having any obligation to help them.
We could just stop giving them support and impose brutally one sided trade conditions on them, hardly helping their situation.

[Hammer Britannia]

No, Why would you want to create more ethnostates? Besides, most of those new "nations" would have populations in the 4 to 5 digits in the middle of nowhere. All you would do is just cut federal funding and leave them to die

The only one I could really see surviving by the end of the decade would be the Navajo, but even that's an iffy situation.

[Novus America]

I've heard an interesting theory that granting certain reservations statehood might be effective in resolving some of their problems.

This can't work for every reservation though.

The thing is most are too small and fragmented. Only maybe the Navajo/Hopi reservation is actually big enough.

However redrawing municipalities/counties such that the county/municipal borders exactly match the reservation borders could help out a lot though, for those too small to be states.
It would end county/reservation conflicts as the county and reservation government would be the exact same.

[Neanderthaland]

I've heard an interesting theory that granting certain reservations statehood might be effective in resolving some of their problems.

This can't work for every reservation though.

It would probably be better to unite multiple reservations into a small number of non-contiguous states. Or even just one.

I realize this is smashing together disparate cultures in a fantastically colonialist fashion. And there would need to be steps taken to ensure that the most populous tribes don't ignore the interests of the smaller ones. But the benefits of having just 2 senators representing Native interests cannot be overstated.

[Rojava Free State]

I've heard an interesting theory that granting certain reservations statehood might be effective in resolving some of their problems.

This can't work for every reservation though.

The thing is most are too small and fragmented. Only maybe the Navajo/Hopi reservation is actually big enough.

However redrawing municipalities/counties such that the county/municipal borders exactly match the reservation borders could help out a lot though, for those too small to be states.
It would end county/reservation conflicts as the county and reservation government would be the exact same.

Man it really shows you how badly the natives got wiped out when most reservations wouldn't even add up to a city, let alone a country. The Indigenous population in this country is nowhere near the size it was before Columbus arrived.

[Rojava Free State]

I've heard an interesting theory that granting certain reservations statehood might be effective in resolving some of their problems.

This can't work for every reservation though.

It would probably be better to unite multiple reservations into a small number of non-contiguous states. Or even just one.

I realize this is smashing together disparate cultures in a fantastically colonialist fashion. And there would need to be steps taken to ensure that the most populous tribes don't ignore the interests of the smaller ones. But the benefits of having just 2 senators representing Native interests cannot be overstated.

Why not combine tribes of a similar culture, like the Sioux and Cheyenne or the Ojibwe and the Chippewa?

[Neanderthaland]

It would probably be better to unite multiple reservations into a small number of non-contiguous states. Or even just one.

I realize this is smashing together disparate cultures in a fantastically colonialist fashion. And there would need to be steps taken to ensure that the most populous tribes don't ignore the interests of the smaller ones. But the benefits of having just 2 senators representing Native interests cannot be overstated.

Why not combine tribes of a similar culture, like the Sioux and Cheyenne or the Ojibwe and the Chippewa?

Ideally. But I'm not sure how many states we can get away with. It's a little unrealistic to even hope for one.

[Salus Maior]

I've heard an interesting theory that granting certain reservations statehood might be effective in resolving some of their problems.

This can't work for every reservation though.

It would probably be better to unite multiple reservations into a small number of non-contiguous states. Or even just one.

I realize this is smashing together disparate cultures in a fantastically colonialist fashion. And there would need to be steps taken to ensure that the most populous tribes don't ignore the interests of the smaller ones. But the benefits of having just 2 senators representing Native interests cannot be overstated.

I don't think a lot of Native Americans would go for that though.

Realistically I think only the bigger reservations could become states. There would likely have to be a different solution for the smaller ones.

Another issue I could see coming from statehood would be the ethnostate issue. It might set a bad precedent to start making states for specific ethnicities, plus, I don't think a lot of native american laws that exist now could exist constitutionally in a state, because you can't make laws based on race.

[Neanderthaland]

It would probably be better to unite multiple reservations into a small number of non-contiguous states. Or even just one.

I realize this is smashing together disparate cultures in a fantastically colonialist fashion. And there would need to be steps taken to ensure that the most populous tribes don't ignore the interests of the smaller ones. But the benefits of having just 2 senators representing Native interests cannot be overstated.

I don't think a lot of Native Americans would go for that though.

Realistically I think only the bigger reservations could become states. There would likely have to be a different solution for the smaller ones.

Another issue I could see coming from statehood would be the ethnostate issue. It might set a bad precedent to start making states for specific ethnicities, plus, I don't think a lot of native american laws that exist now could exist constitutionally in a state, because you can't make laws based on race.

Obviously they would have to cease to be ethnostates.

[Novus America]

The thing is most are too small and fragmented. Only maybe the Navajo/Hopi reservation is actually big enough.

However redrawing municipalities/counties such that the county/municipal borders exactly match the reservation borders could help out a lot though, for those too small to be states.
It would end county/reservation conflicts as the county and reservation government would be the exact same.

Man it really shows you how badly the natives got wiped out when most reservations wouldn't even add up to a city, let alone a country. The Indigenous population in this country is nowhere near the size it was before Columbus arrived.

True although we do not know exactly the numbers that were in what is now the US. Given most lived in tiny villages or were nomads, the population density of this part was quite low. Many tribes probably still only had a few hundred members before Columbus. Of course many tribes simply are gone altogether.

That and the majority of Native Americans do not live on the reservations at all. The majority moved off the reservations. Not that one can blame them.

So although huge numbers were wiped out by disease and being killed, even before the majority would not fit in the current state model, being small, usually nomadic tribes.

The big cities were usually south of the border.

[Salus Maior]

I don't think a lot of Native Americans would go for that though.

Realistically I think only the bigger reservations could become states. There would likely have to be a different solution for the smaller ones.

Another issue I could see coming from statehood would be the ethnostate issue. It might set a bad precedent to start making states for specific ethnicities, plus, I don't think a lot of native american laws that exist now could exist constitutionally in a state, because you can't make laws based on race.

Obviously they would have to cease to be ethnostates.

True, but I think Native Americans are a bit attached to that idea.

[Novus America]

I've heard an interesting theory that granting certain reservations statehood might be effective in resolving some of their problems.

This can't work for every reservation though.

It would probably be better to unite multiple reservations into a small number of non-contiguous states. Or even just one.

I realize this is smashing together disparate cultures in a fantastically colonialist fashion. And there would need to be steps taken to ensure that the most populous tribes don't ignore the interests of the smaller ones. But the benefits of having just 2 senators representing Native interests cannot be overstated.

This is an interesting concept, but I am not sure most would prefer this. Such a highly decent and fragmented state would have issues, especially as it would have little enclaves that would loose access to the current state services they already get from the state they are in. Many probably have more economic, cultural, social and legal connections with their current state than another tribal government.

The Navajo and Hopi reservations maybe as one state though because the Navajo is the biggest by far (it surrounds the the Hopi one entirely).

I still think best is to redraw county, municipal and and congressional district borders to match the reservation borders as closely as possible.

Placing all the reservations in a single state in a single congressional district might actually get them more congressional representation in the house at least, without the aforementioned problems.

[Neanderthaland]

Obviously they would have to cease to be ethnostates.

True, but I think Native Americans are a bit attached to that idea.

Well they go into it having the advantage that they currently comprise the majority population. And they could still receive federal ethnic benefits, like the Indian Health Service. But yes, I understand why they might be uncomfortable with people being able to influence their political process by moving there.

This, basically in exchange for 2 senators.

[Neanderthaland]

It would probably be better to unite multiple reservations into a small number of non-contiguous states. Or even just one.

I realize this is smashing together disparate cultures in a fantastically colonialist fashion. And there would need to be steps taken to ensure that the most populous tribes don't ignore the interests of the smaller ones. But the benefits of having just 2 senators representing Native interests cannot be overstated.

This is an interesting concept, but I am not sure most would prefer this. Such a highly decent and fragmented state would have issues, especially as it would have little enclaves that would loose access to the current state services they already get from the state they are in. Many probably have more economic, cultural, social and legal connections with their current state than another tribal government.

The Navajo and Hopi reservations maybe as one state though because the Navajo is the biggest by far (it surrounds the the Hopi one entirely).

I still think best is to redraw county, municipal and and congressional district borders to match the reservation borders as closely as possible.

Placing all the reservations in a single state in a single congressional district might actually get them more congressional representation in the house at least, without the aforementioned problems.

I'm not opposed to your idea. I mentioned it only because Salus Maior did.

And because I think it would have been a good idea to integrate larger Native tribes this way a few centuries ago. Alas, that ship has sailed.

[Rojava Free State]

It would probably be better to unite multiple reservations into a small number of non-contiguous states. Or even just one.

I realize this is smashing together disparate cultures in a fantastically colonialist fashion. And there would need to be steps taken to ensure that the most populous tribes don't ignore the interests of the smaller ones. But the benefits of having just 2 senators representing Native interests cannot be overstated.

This is an interesting concept, but I am not sure most would prefer this. Such a highly decent and fragmented state would have issues, especially as it would have little enclaves that would loose access to the current state services they already get from the state they are in. Many probably have more economic, cultural, social and legal connections with their current state than another tribal government.

The Navajo and Hopi reservations maybe as one state though because the Navajo is the biggest by far (it surrounds the the Hopi one entirely).

I still think best is to redraw county, municipal and and congressional district borders to match the reservation borders as closely as possible.

Placing all the reservations in a single state in a single congressional district might actually get them more congressional representation in the house at least, without the aforementioned problems.

The Navajo and Hopi get along, right? Because if they don't...oh boy. Oooooh boy.

[Neanderthaland]

This is an interesting concept, but I am not sure most would prefer this. Such a highly decent and fragmented state would have issues, especially as it would have little enclaves that would loose access to the current state services they already get from the state they are in. Many probably have more economic, cultural, social and legal connections with their current state than another tribal government.

The Navajo and Hopi reservations maybe as one state though because the Navajo is the biggest by far (it surrounds the the Hopi one entirely).

I still think best is to redraw county, municipal and and congressional district borders to match the reservation borders as closely as possible.

Placing all the reservations in a single state in a single congressional district might actually get them more congressional representation in the house at least, without the aforementioned problems.

The Navajo and Hopi get along, right? Because if they don't...oh boy. Oooooh boy.

Look at a map of these reservations, and imagine what would happen if they didn't.

[Otira]

No. They would just becme de-facto bantustans in one way or another. Not to mention the general clusterfuck.

This, it's a dumb racist idea.

[Rojava Free State]

The Navajo and Hopi get along, right? Because if they don't...oh boy. Oooooh boy.

Look at a map of these reservations, and imagine what would happen if they didn't.

Native American War, but instead of arrows and tomahawks, it's full on automatic rifled and grenades. It's like that scene from saving private Ryan but there is no water, and it's a bunch of guys in boots and denim jackets running at the other side while they get cut down by gunfire. Got Navajo motherfuckers with flame throwers and gas masks trying to break through the Hopi lines. Dudes getting blown to shreads by airstrikes.

And then there's me watching through binoculars from the hills while one of yall elbows me and says "do you feel good now bruh? You feel good about yourself after convincing the government to allow native reservarions to be countries?"

[Novus America]

This is an interesting concept, but I am not sure most would prefer this. Such a highly decent and fragmented state would have issues, especially as it would have little enclaves that would loose access to the current state services they already get from the state they are in. Many probably have more economic, cultural, social and legal connections with their current state than another tribal government.

The Navajo and Hopi reservations maybe as one state though because the Navajo is the biggest by far (it surrounds the the Hopi one entirely).

I still think best is to redraw county, municipal and and congressional district borders to match the reservation borders as closely as possible.

Placing all the reservations in a single state in a single congressional district might actually get them more congressional representation in the house at least, without the aforementioned problems.

The Navajo and Hopi get along, right? Because if they don't...oh boy. Oooooh boy.

I they kind of have to already because the Hopi are a Navajo enclave, and all their access to the outside world goes through the Navajo.

And the Colorado River Indian Reservation is a mix of both. Presumably the Hopi Reservation would have to be a very autonomous county within the state, as it would be Navajo dominated, so I am not sure the Hopi would go along. Although I guess it could still be a reservation contiguous with a county on the new state. The Navajo reservation would cease to exist because it would be a state, and the Hopi now a reservation within the Navajo state instead of Arizona.

I am not sure if this would be viable but it might be worth looking into and doing some polling.
I would only do it of course if both tribal governments agreed to it.

Of course if the Navajo actually were an independent country the Hopi would have a big issue, at least now the federal government can protect them if the Navajo do not and they have free travel through the Navajo reservation.

If both became independent the Navajo could completely screw the Hopi and not be able to get the federal courts to intervene.