Are we senselessly abandoning tradition? A nostalgia debate.

[Geneviev]

I'll be honest, I don't know if some of those problems even exist. Anyway, there were a lot of problems in the 60s and 70s too. People just can't get things right. If there is one change that I am concerned about, it is that religions are being used to control people now. Other than that, progress is a good thing. Without the Internet, I would not be able to do school right now. Tradition isn't always better.

At least my AP Bio test is open note now and I can always just open up the other browser for questions.

Looking up answers almost feels like cheating. Meanwhile, I'm just hoping that my exams next year can be cancelled like they did for this year.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I'll be honest, I don't know if some of those problems even exist. Anyway, there were a lot of problems in the 60s and 70s too. People just can't get things right. If there is one change that I am concerned about, it is that religions are being used to control people now. Other than that, progress is a good thing. Without the Internet, I would not be able to do school right now. Tradition isn't always better.

Some religious leaders have always sought to exercise control over their followers through their belief systems. Exploit them too.

I guess the issue is to define what role religion plays in your life. If it’s just to live a good life and abstain from harming others, I’m down. But if you use your religion to harm and/or oppress others, then nope.

Either way, it’s escapism. Things right now look uncertain and yes, some do turn to the past with nostalgia, even when that past wasn’t anything worth wanting to relive through.

[Spiritual Republic of Caryton]

That was wisely said of you. I understand this "have your cake and eat it too" solution of bringing back traditional values but making them inclusive won't prevent everything. One radio station of a godly man, an organist, and an opera singer-- 15 minutes of hymns and prayer, have left me tearfully wanting my own Willoughby. The difference here is that people are now so caught up in abandoning the old, forgetfully trampling on things that are both old and good-- things that I desired in my OP. There are often times discussions about a future with no religion. Despite this future being so advanced and prosperous, the cynical removal of faith and (likely) mental bigotry of anyone remotely spiritual by the somehow intellectual populace serves as a cold reminder to me. Those kinds of dystopias are Willoughby, but in absolute reverse. Meant to fear-monger the future. Orgasmically lusted by the radicals who want to stomp on faith until it dies like a worm, feared by those who are already used to being denounced. George Orwell sometimes hinted at this in 1984, where all feelings were devoted to the Party. No love, no memories-- only patriotism. I concede that this future (grimly relatable to present day in my honest opinion) should be feared, especially by those who feel like nostalgia is evil.

Nostalgia is not evil. Nostalgia is fine. Nostalgia is why 80s moves are suddenly really popular.

Being delusional is not evil either, but it is very rarely helpful. And usually harmful. And having a rose-colored view of the past, and of reactionaryism, is delusional.

Be still my soul, thy best-- thy Heavn'ly Friend.
Through thorny ways leads to a joyful end.

The reference to the trademark end to the Quiet Time broadcast sticks with me as you say that, especially with the mod's post. Heavenly Father, to me and my faith, is the only one that will provide paradise. Still, I've been in an environment with next to no stability, paradoxically surrounded by either successful people or godly elderly women just out of reach. Current life will always be a thorny way. I always wonder to myself: "When will the time come for my tea time with Ms. Dorothy?"

Writing that past sentence alone has already driven me to cry and shake, so these matters are very important to me. I know I'll never get those chances again, never a childhood with those people who would have loved me so dearly. Never an adult life because now they're aged and gone.

[Geneviev]

I'll be honest, I don't know if some of those problems even exist. Anyway, there were a lot of problems in the 60s and 70s too. People just can't get things right. If there is one change that I am concerned about, it is that religions are being used to control people now. Other than that, progress is a good thing. Without the Internet, I would not be able to do school right now. Tradition isn't always better.

Some religious leaders have always sought to exercise control over their followers through their belief systems. Exploit them too.

I guess the issue is to define what role religion plays in your life. If it’s just to live a good life and abstain from harming others, I’m down. But if you use your religion to harm and/or oppress others, then nope.

Either way, it’s escapism. Things right now look uncertain and yes, some do turn to the past with nostalgia, even when that past wasn’t anything worth wanting to relive through.

At least to me, it feels like the people who manipulate religion are more common now. But then there could definitely be a lot of other explanations for why it seems like that.

Imagining that the past was better is probably comforting to people. It's just not real.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Some religious leaders have always sought to exercise control over their followers through their belief systems. Exploit them too.

I guess the issue is to define what role religion plays in your life. If it’s just to live a good life and abstain from harming others, I’m down. But if you use your religion to harm and/or oppress others, then nope.

Either way, it’s escapism. Things right now look uncertain and yes, some do turn to the past with nostalgia, even when that past wasn’t anything worth wanting to relive through.

At least to me, it feels like the people who manipulate religion are more common now. But then there could definitely be a lot of other explanations for why it seems like that.

Imagining that the past was better is probably comforting to people. It's just not real.

Many people are demanding accountability. In my estimation that’s why you perceive this more keenly.

No, you’re right. It’s not reality, it’s just avoidance. But we all do it at times. I know I have been doing it lately because of the pandemic.

[Diahon]

Tradition is good if there is good reason for it to keep on keeping on, or if it can be coopted as an eccentricity, specialty, or whatever while people adopt newfangled shit.

If it's actively harmful? Ditch it; the more harmful, the wider and deeper the ditch.

[Region of Dwipantara]

The past isn't always that good either. I for one loathe the past military dictatorship era where corruption is rampant, obedience culture is enforced, mass murder is praised, people are super superstitious, yes-man attitude gets you going and my grandpa was almost jailed because he fought corruption in a state-owned company. Nope, fuck that.

Meanwhile in the West's past, ailing senators held their piss and talked 24 hour straight to defend racism. Seeing the past from a rosy PoV will only lead us to ruin.

[Geneviev]

At least to me, it feels like the people who manipulate religion are more common now. But then there could definitely be a lot of other explanations for why it seems like that.

Imagining that the past was better is probably comforting to people. It's just not real.

Many people are demanding accountability. In my estimation that’s why you perceive this more keenly.

No, you’re right. It’s not reality, it’s just avoidance. But we all do it at times. I know I have been doing it lately because of the pandemic.

Sure. The pandemic is stressful, and people need to find a way to cope with it. But if things aren't real, it's going to hurt them more when they get attached to the belief. I've been listening to music I associate with my childhood, for example. That's not the same as imagining a past with no problems.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Many people are demanding accountability. In my estimation that’s why you perceive this more keenly.

No, you’re right. It’s not reality, it’s just avoidance. But we all do it at times. I know I have been doing it lately because of the pandemic.

Sure. The pandemic is stressful, and people need to find a way to cope with it. But if things aren't real, it's going to hurt them more when they get attached to the belief. I've been listening to music I associate with my childhood, for example. That's not the same as imagining a past with no problems.

I don’t disagree. The wake up call to reality sucks. However, it’s the mechanics of escapism. You do start thinking everything was better in that past because you’re nostalgic about it. Nostalgia sometimes makes us forget the realities of that past. That it more than likely wasn’t as “good” as we seem to think because of our current circumstances. But as long as you realize, in the back of your head, that it’s just escapism and not the reality, a dose of avoidance isn’t terrible. I think the mind needs it after focusing on the worries of the present.

It’s all in how you view it, it’s what I’m trying to say.

[Geneviev]

Sure. The pandemic is stressful, and people need to find a way to cope with it. But if things aren't real, it's going to hurt them more when they get attached to the belief. I've been listening to music I associate with my childhood, for example. That's not the same as imagining a past with no problems.

I don’t disagree. The wake up call to reality sucks. However, it’s the mechanics of escapism. You do start thinking everything was better in that past because you’re nostalgic about it. Nostalgia sometimes makes us forget the realities of that past. That it more than likely wasn’t as “good” as we seem to think because of our current circumstances. But as long as you realize, in the back of your head, that it’s just escapism and not the reality, a dose of avoidance isn’t terrible. I think the mind needs it after focusing on the worries of the present.

It’s all in how you view it, it’s what I’m trying to say.

Right. If you don't completely believe that everything was perfect, it's fine. But you should be careful with those things.

[Northwest Slobovia]

Should we just revert to the ideals of the United States constitution

Slavery, misogyny, and and intolerance of a large number of other things, including homosexuality? How 'bout 'no'?

And if you mean the Constitution per se, no respect for individual rights, just power for whoever was in charge.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I don’t disagree. The wake up call to reality sucks. However, it’s the mechanics of escapism. You do start thinking everything was better in that past because you’re nostalgic about it. Nostalgia sometimes makes us forget the realities of that past. That it more than likely wasn’t as “good” as we seem to think because of our current circumstances. But as long as you realize, in the back of your head, that it’s just escapism and not the reality, a dose of avoidance isn’t terrible. I think the mind needs it after focusing on the worries of the present.

It’s all in how you view it, it’s what I’m trying to say.

Right. If you don't completely believe that everything was perfect, it's fine. But you should be careful with those things.

Learn to walk the line between escapism and the present. That’s pretty much it. And reason things.

[Atheris]

Ah, nostalgia. Something I've had for both things I love and things I've never experienced. Walking through a kmart, listening to old cassettes, listening to vaporwave. All of it brings in that sort of feeling.

[Spiritual Republic of Caryton]

Ah, nostalgia. Something I've had for both things I love and things I've never experienced. Walking through a kmart, listening to old cassettes, listening to vaporwave. All of it brings in that sort of feeling.

It's incredibly worse if you saw it play out before you but never got the chance to experience it.

[Spiritual Republic of Caryton]

Right. If you don't completely believe that everything was perfect, it's fine. But you should be careful with those things.

Learn to walk the line between escapism and the present. That’s pretty much it. And reason things.

I thought me turning 17 and being thrown into my senior year this May would bring me one step closer to achieving what I've never gotten before. The very phrase which reduced me to a teary mental breakdown a few posts ago in reference to me being trapped in relative toxicity while grandparent-ly people of faith were just out of reach-- never noticing me: "When will the time come for tea with Ms. Dorothy?". Pushing aside the fact that those people, from extended family to warm-hearted strangers that smiled at twelve year old me visiting a nativity play for the first of the last time, have passed on and I will never get to be in their presence-- I have never felt farther away from the ideals that I desire. I converted into the LDS church as my display of 'teenage rebellion", I've dealt with faith crises based on my sexuality, I'm unprepared for adulthood in less than 2 years with no ability to get a job in highschool and college is going to slam me in the face. I look forward to baptism and a new community, but you don't know how much it stings to not be able to be in that lutheran church of white-washed wood and christmas cookies throughout all of those years. Part of me listening to that somewhat inspirational radio broadcast that prompted this discussion is this: society is changing, and it is unforgiving. People are cruelly accepting it. They don't consider the other side, contrarians who conversely want to go back to something that feels like home, yet the entire world is out to destroy that home and keep it away for as long as possible-- such as the case with me personally.

[Atheris]

Ah, nostalgia. Something I've had for both things I love and things I've never experienced. Walking through a kmart, listening to old cassettes, listening to vaporwave. All of it brings in that sort of feeling.

It's incredibly worse if you saw it play out before you but never got the chance to experience it.

Kmart comes to mind. I went into a Kmart once, when I was around... six??? Watching them close down around the country gives me this weird feeling of nostalgia and otherworldly melancholy. Same with Sears, and Toys-R-Us.

[Antityranicals]

I'd like to note that without morality, there can be no concept of natural rights, and without some respect natural rights, society would quickly fall. Thus your idea of a society which is both technologically advanced and without morality makes no sense at all. Furthermore, I keep on hearing this idea that religion is about to "pass away." If religion were to pass away, it would have done so in the 19th century, by which point every decent argument against it had been formulated, the state had become the enemy of religion, and most intellectuals scorned it. But it didn't, and I think that's proof enough that it will most likely last until the end of humanity.

[Albrenia]

I get all nostalgic for the 90s and 80s too, despite barely remembering them. The past in general sucked though, we've got it better now than we ever had it, in a general sense.

[Plzen]

People are cruelly accepting it. They don't consider the other side, contrarians who conversely want to go back to something that feels like home, yet the entire world is out to destroy that home and keep it away for as long as possible-- such as the case with me personally.

Why, yes, if you try to undo decades of progress just so you can be back to what's "familiar", more forwards-thinking people might get a bit cross with you.

"Why do all these abolitionists try to drag me out of the good ol' Southern plantation days, why won't they let me just live the way I want, waaaaaah" is basically what your argument boils down to, except displaced by a century and a half.

[Spiritual Republic of Caryton]

People are cruelly accepting it. They don't consider the other side, contrarians who conversely want to go back to something that feels like home, yet the entire world is out to destroy that home and keep it away for as long as possible-- such as the case with me personally.

Why, yes, if you try to undo decades of progress just so you can be back to what's "familiar," more forwards-thinking people might get a bit cross with you.

"Why do all these abolitionists try to drag me out of the good ol' Southern plantation days, why won't they let me just live the way I want, waaaaaah" is basically what your argument boils down to, except displaced by a century and a half.

At least the destruction of the south was justified. It could be about anything now for little reason except "we're changing".

[Geneviev]

Learn to walk the line between escapism and the present. That’s pretty much it. And reason things.

I thought me turning 17 and being thrown into my senior year this May would bring me one step closer to achieving what I've never gotten before. The very phrase which reduced me to a teary mental breakdown a few posts ago in reference to me being trapped in relative toxicity while grandparent-ly people of faith were just out of reach-- never noticing me: "When will the time come for tea with Ms. Dorothy?". Pushing aside the fact that those people, from extended family to warm-hearted strangers that smiled at twelve year old me visiting a nativity play for the first of the last time, have passed on and I will never get to be in their presence-- I have never felt farther away from the ideals that I desire. I converted into the LDS church as my display of 'teenage rebellion", I've dealt with faith crises based on my sexuality, I'm unprepared for adulthood in less than 2 years with no ability to get a job in highschool and college is going to slam me in the face. I look forward to baptism and a new community, but you don't know how much it stings to not be able to be in that lutheran church of white-washed wood and christmas cookies throughout all of those years. Part of me listening to that somewhat inspirational radio broadcast that prompted this discussion is this: society is changing, and it is unforgiving. People are cruelly accepting it. They don't consider the other side, contrarians who conversely want to go back to something that feels like home, yet the entire world is out to destroy that home and keep it away for as long as possible-- such as the case with me personally.

Losing that sense of home is hard. It's weird to feel like you belong in a different world than you are being forced to live in. Having no choice in whether you want to live in a culture that feels totally foreign can be really stressful. But something being familiar doesn't make it better or anything. I miss my old German church too (it was even Lutheran, too). But change happens. We have to adapt to it.

[Albrenia]

I'd like to note that without morality, there can be no concept of natural rights, and without some respect natural rights, society would quickly fall. Thus your idea of a society which is both technologically advanced and without morality makes no sense at all. Furthermore, I keep on hearing this idea that religion is about to "pass away." If religion were to pass away, it would have done so in the 19th century, by which point every decent argument against it had been formulated, the state had become the enemy of religion, and most intellectuals scorned it. But it didn't, and I think that's proof enough that it will most likely last until the end of humanity.

I actually agree. Religion will always be part of humanity, since Magical Thinking and asking the dreaded 'Why?' question are both hardwired into humans. Hopefully we'll eventually grow beyond forcing religions on people, or forcing people to abandon their religions.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Learn to walk the line between escapism and the present. That’s pretty much it. And reason things.

I thought me turning 17 and being thrown into my senior year this May would bring me one step closer to achieving what I've never gotten before. The very phrase which reduced me to a teary mental breakdown a few posts ago in reference to me being trapped in relative toxicity while grandparent-ly people of faith were just out of reach-- never noticing me: "When will the time come for tea with Ms. Dorothy?". Pushing aside the fact that those people, from extended family to warm-hearted strangers that smiled at twelve year old me visiting a nativity play for the first of the last time, have passed on and I will never get to be in their presence-- I have never felt farther away from the ideals that I desire. I converted into the LDS church as my display of 'teenage rebellion", I've dealt with faith crises based on my sexuality, I'm unprepared for adulthood in less than 2 years with no ability to get a job in highschool and college is going to slam me in the face. I look forward to baptism and a new community, but you don't know how much it stings to not be able to be in that lutheran church of white-washed wood and christmas cookies throughout all of those years. Part of me listening to that somewhat inspirational radio broadcast that prompted this discussion is this: society is changing, and it is unforgiving. People are cruelly accepting it. They don't consider the other side, contrarians who conversely want to go back to something that feels like home, yet the entire world is out to destroy that home and keep it away for as long as possible-- such as the case with me personally.

You seem to yearn for a time capsule, no offense. It doesn’t seem like it’s about a set of values as much as a sense of loss because you have departed loved ones. We all have lost someone. I often find myself remembering going horseback riding with my late grandfather and wish I could do that again. Because I perceive that as a wholesome time in which my immediate family was still complete and alive. We can’t go back in time.

It’s one thing to obfuscate the cruel reality of now for a bit and another to wish for an idilic “past” that is no more. You have to seek to make the best of what you do have. Fears are understandable, just don’t cancel the present out of a heightened sense of nostalgia. Don’t view the past as “better”, because it more than likely wasn’t better. You can definitely be here, be now, and improve if you so wish to and abandon the idea of a past that’s, well, past.

Cherish your memories with those loved ones but don’t turn a blind eye to the now and the future because of escapism.

[Spiritual Republic of Caryton]

I thought me turning 17 and being thrown into my senior year this May would bring me one step closer to achieving what I've never gotten before. The very phrase which reduced me to a teary mental breakdown a few posts ago in reference to me being trapped in relative toxicity while grandparent-ly people of faith were just out of reach-- never noticing me: "When will the time come for tea with Ms. Dorothy?". Pushing aside the fact that those people, from extended family to warm-hearted strangers that smiled at twelve year old me visiting a nativity play for the first of the last time, have passed on and I will never get to be in their presence-- I have never felt farther away from the ideals that I desire. I converted into the LDS church as my display of 'teenage rebellion", I've dealt with faith crises based on my sexuality, I'm unprepared for adulthood in less than 2 years with no ability to get a job in highschool and college is going to slam me in the face. I look forward to baptism and a new community, but you don't know how much it stings to not be able to be in that lutheran church of white-washed wood and christmas cookies throughout all of those years. Part of me listening to that somewhat inspirational radio broadcast that prompted this discussion is this: society is changing, and it is unforgiving. People are cruelly accepting it. They don't consider the other side, contrarians who conversely want to go back to something that feels like home, yet the entire world is out to destroy that home and keep it away for as long as possible-- such as the case with me personally.

Losing that sense of home is hard. It's weird to feel like you belong in a different world than you are being forced to live in. Having no choice in whether you want to live in a culture that feels totally foreign can be really stressful. But something being familiar doesn't make it better or anything. I miss my old German church too (it was even Lutheran, too). But change happens. We have to adapt to it.

It's ironic and hurtful that in a society that emphasizes making something for yourself, we can't make a home for ourselves or recreate the old without rebuttal. By the time I get to meet and be with even the descendants of the people I idolized in those whitewashed buildings, things will be messed up beyond belief.

[Plzen]

At least the destruction of the south was justified. It could be about anything now for little reason except "we're changing".

I suspect that had you asked a similar question in 1870 to a plantation owner in the path of Sherman's march, they would certainly have made a case that the destruction of their way of life was unjustified. As the old software engineering joke goes, there is no such thing as an update minor enough not to break someone's workflow. But 150 years later, people who were both capable and willing to make a moral defence of slavery are mostly dead, so we take it for granted that slavery is a despicable thing to do to a fellow human being.

I stand by what I said. This is just another one of those reactionary complaints about how the past was better and modernity is bad. As long as society continues to grow more free, more prosperous, and more advanced, I suspect that this particular complaint about the social changes of this particular point in history will die out like all the rest of them that has plagued society since the Industrial Revolution.