Slapping Wrists for Treason

[Atheris]

Do Civil War Threads always get this heated?

Leeaboos hate being told the South was bad and deserved it.

For all intents and purposes, Lee was a great general and, if you ask me, the only "good" Confederate political figure. He didn't fight for slavery, he fought for Virginia. That's admirable. The CSA as a whole was still pretty fucked, though.

Also, "Leeaboo". I'm stealing this.

[Grenartia]

Group B only exists in your imagination.

" I firmly say that no mercy should have been given to slavery-defending traitors except to spare their lives. General Sherman did nothing wrong, and he should've done it harder. " - you, literally two minutes ago.

I never said they weren't human. I also did not say that "literally two minutes ago", even when you posted that.

If you proudly commit treason, you forfeit your property rights. Property rights are not human rights.

[Atheris]

" I firmly say that no mercy should have been given to slavery-defending traitors except to spare their lives. General Sherman did nothing wrong, and he should've done it harder. " - you, literally two minutes ago.

I never said they weren't human. I also did not say that "literally two minutes ago", even when you posted that.

If you proudly commit treason, you forfeit your property rights. Property rights are not human rights.

If you proudly commit treason, you should be shot.

[Grenartia]

Have you ever read "Confederates in the Attic"? It's a good read if you want to understand why Southerners honor the Confederacy.

Southerners who honor the Confederacy have negative honor.

[Heloin]

Have you ever read "Confederates in the Attic"? It's a good read if you want to understand why Southerners honor the Confederacy.

I meet the author two years ago, he signed my copy of that for me.

In what world is killing slavers bad?

Killing slavers isn’t bad. The thing is, not everyone that was killed by the abolitionists was a slaver, or owned slaves. John Brown killed two kids at Pottawatomie Creek. Do you think those kids deserved to die because their dad owned slaves?

What kids? No children where killed in Pottawatomie unless you mean James Doyle's adult sons.

[Atheris]

Have you ever read "Confederates in the Attic"? It's a good read if you want to understand why Southerners honor the Confederacy.

Southerners who honor the Confederacy have negative honor.

In the CSA's defense, they make good flags. The Battle Flag of Northern Virginia, the Stars and Bars, and the Blood-Stained Banner are all some of my favorite flags from the 19th century.

[Joohan]

Oh, my mistake, you don't want to murder everyone - you just want to send them into poverty, deny them their rights, destroy their homes and livelihoods, and rob them of their futures.

The emphatic and humanist route I see.

Only if they fought for and or materially supported the Confederacy. People like Newton Knight and the other Southern Loyalists who counter-rebelled against the Confederacy or otherwise fought for or materially supported the Union would not suffer any consequences.

So practically the entire South? Or, about 40% of the national population? The southern leaders who succeeded were voted into office and supported by the majority of the population. It's thought that nearly 800,000 men served in the confederate Army, would those men who willingly volunteered or fulfilled their duties as drafties be punished too? How about the families who supported their men in the fighting by buying war bonds, traveling with them to act as nurses on the battlefields, or cooked their meals? How about the families who opened up their homes to act as camps and hospitals? Nearly everyone was complicit.

I get it, you hate racists - but perhaps you should seek to be better than them? You want these people to be empathetic towards their fellow man, then show them how, by giving them that same empathy. Rehabilitation, not retribution!

[Atheris]

Only if they fought for and or materially supported the Confederacy. People like Newton Knight and the other Southern Loyalists who counter-rebelled against the Confederacy or otherwise fought for or materially supported the Union would not suffer any consequences.

So practically the entire South? Or, about 40% of the national population? The southern leaders who succeeded were voted into office and supported by the majority of the population. It's thought that nearly 800,000 men served in the confederate Army, would those men who willingly volunteered or fulfilled their duties as drafties be punished too? How about the families who supported their men in the fighting by buying war bonds, traveling with them to act as nurses on the battlefields, or cooked their meals? How about the families who opened up their homes to act as camps and hospitals? Nearly everyone was complicit.

I get it, you hate racists - but perhaps you should seek to be better than them? You want these people to be empathetic towards their fellow man, then show them how, by giving them that same empathy. Rehabilitation, not retribution!

"An eye for an eye only makes the world blind." - Mohandas Gandhi

Literally one of the only good quotes from that guy.

[Kathol Rift]

Have you ever read "Confederates in the Attic"? It's a good read if you want to understand why Southerners honor the Confederacy.

I meet the author two years ago, he signed my copy of that for me.

Killing slavers isn’t bad. The thing is, not everyone that was killed by the abolitionists was a slaver, or owned slaves. John Brown killed two kids at Pottawatomie Creek. Do you think those kids deserved to die because their dad owned slaves?

What kids? No children where killed in Pottawatomie unless you mean James Doyle's adult sons.

Were they adults? I must have read that wrong. That was my mistake. Still, not everyone killed by the abolitionists was a slave owner, even if I did make a mistake in my example.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Leeaboos hate being told the South was bad and deserved it.

For all intents and purposes, Lee was a great general and, if you ask me, the only "good" Confederate political figure. He didn't fight for slavery, he fought for Virginia. That's admirable. The CSA as a whole was still pretty fucked, though.

Also, "Leeaboo". I'm stealing this.

Except it's not admirable.

People use the same shit argument for Rommel. "He didn't fight for the Nazis, he fought for Germany!" But that's a crock. It doesn't matter what he was metaphorically fighting for, his fighting aided the most evil regime in human history.

Lee chose his state over his country. Lee chose his state over what was morally right. Lee chose his state over the rule of law. Lee sent his countrymen to kill his countrymen to preserve an unrecognized and illegal nation that was founded for the sole purpose of preserving the institution of slavery. Fuck Lee.

[Heloin]

I meet the author two years ago, he signed my copy of that for me.


What kids? No children where killed in Pottawatomie unless you mean James Doyle's adult sons.

Were they adults? I must have read that wrong. That was my mistake. Still, not everyone killed by the abolitionists was a slave owner, even if I did make a mistake in my example.

And all the ones killed in Pottawatomie where members of Militant Pro Slavery societies or were actively supporting Border Ruffians.

[Grenartia]

Southerners who honor the Confederacy have negative honor.

In the CSA's defense, they make good flags. The Battle Flag of Northern Virginia, the Stars and Bars, and the Blood-Stained Banner are all some of my favorite flags from the 19th century.

The Stars and Bars was an uninspired ripoff of early Union flags, and the Blood-Stained Banner was literally just an unironic white supremacist symbol with a red bar added to keep it from being mistaken as a surrender flag. I'll agree that the BFNV was quite original, and its a shame it had to become the symbol of traitorous slavery-defenders. The Bonnie Blue flag was also pretty good, shame it had to suffer the same fate as the BFNV, albeit to a lesser extent.

[Cisairse]

Oh and by the way, if you think its just white southerners who think the South should’ve won, you’d be surprised at the amount of black southerners who thought the South was fighting for states rights. I even had a conversation with one a few months ago

"The south should’ve won."

"Your ancestors would’ve continued being slaves then"

Acts all smug and smart "False, that’s a common misconception, actually, slavery was going to end anyways. At least we would’ve had more states rights then."

Slavery did eventually have to end in the South. Would it have ended before the 20th century? Not likely, no.

Would it still be on the same level as Jim Crow and apartheid South Africa even into the 21st century? Yes.

There really isn't any evidence for that.

[Kragholm Free States]

I am entirely convinced that American Civil War threads on NSG exist purely as a safe space for people to vent all their edgy internet tough guy comments.

You right now, probably:

Oh not at all, I think fighting against the Confederacy and defeating them in war was entirely the right thing to do. I'm merely mocking the faux-bloodthirsty rip and tear crowd who post edgy shit knowing full well if they had a gun in their hand and a real live Confederate in front of them they would do precisely nothing.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

In the CSA's defense, they make good flags. The Battle Flag of Northern Virginia, the Stars and Bars, and the Blood-Stained Banner are all some of my favorite flags from the 19th century.

The Stars and Bars was an uninspired ripoff of early Union flags, and the Blood-Stained Banner was literally just an unironic white supremacist symbol with a red bar added to keep it from being mistaken as a surrender flag. I'll agree that the BFNV was quite original, and its a shame it had to become the symbol of traitorous slavery-defenders. The Bonnie Blue flag was also pretty good, shame it had to suffer the same fate as the BFNV, albeit to a lesser extent.

I can agree that the Virginian flag is nice. It really is a shame what it represents.

The other flags are rather shit IMO, although the Bonnie Blue isn't bad.

[Kathol Rift]

Were they adults? I must have read that wrong. That was my mistake. Still, not everyone killed by the abolitionists was a slave owner, even if I did make a mistake in my example.

And all the ones killed in Pottawatomie where members of Militant Pro Slavery societies or were actively supporting Border Ruffians.

I’m not only talking about Pottawatomie. I’m talking about through all of bleeding Kansas.

[Cisairse]

Turn Stone Mountain into a giant statue of John Brown.

The same John Brown who was the main player in the massacre of Pottawatomie Creek? Just because he was an abolitionist, doesn’t necessarily mean he was a good person. Do a little bit more research before you suggest memorializing a person.

Wait, how does Pottawatomie make him a bad person?

John Brown is a hero and a martyr.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

You right now, probably:

Oh not at all, I think fighting against the Confederacy and defeating them in war was entirely the right thing to do. I'm merely mocking the faux-bloodthirsty rip and tear crowd who post edgy shit knowing full well if they had a gun in their hand and a real live Confederate in front of them they would do precisely nothing.

"Edgy" are the ones defending the Confederacy, buckaroo.

[Ethel mermania]

I felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse.

-- sam grant

[Grenartia]

Only if they fought for and or materially supported the Confederacy. People like Newton Knight and the other Southern Loyalists who counter-rebelled against the Confederacy or otherwise fought for or materially supported the Union would not suffer any consequences.

So practically the entire South? Or, about 40% of the national population? The southern leaders who succeeded were voted into office and supported by the majority of the population. It's thought that nearly 800,000 men served in the confederate Army, would those men who willingly volunteered or fulfilled their duties as drafties be punished too? How about the families who supported their men in the fighting by buying war bonds, traveling with them to act as nurses on the battlefields, or cooked their meals? How about the families who opened up their homes to act as camps and hospitals? Nearly everyone was complicit.

Nearly everyone was complicit, yes, that is the point. There were many people who were not complicit. Who not only did not actively support the Confederacy, but actively supported the Union. They existed as proof that one could be a good Southerner during the Civil War. They could have joined the Union Army, bought Union bonds, disrupted the CSA behind their lines, acted as nurses and cooks for the Union, opened up their homes as Union camps and hospitals, resisted Confederate drafts, refused to vote for pro-confederate politicians.

I get it, you hate racists - but perhaps you should seek to be better than them? You want these people to be empathetic towards their fellow man, then show them how, by giving them that same empathy. Rehabilitation, not retribution!

Reconstruction was rehabilitation, not retribution. Retribution would be enslaving all the Southern whites.

[Joohan]

" I firmly say that no mercy should have been given to slavery-defending traitors except to spare their lives. General Sherman did nothing wrong, and he should've done it harder. " - you, literally two minutes ago.

I never said they weren't human. I also did not say that "literally two minutes ago", even when you posted that.

If you proudly commit treason, you forfeit your property rights. Property rights are not human rights.

You're right, you didn't say they weren't human, you just want that we'd treated them like they weren't. Forefeit property rights is very banal way of hiding what Sherman's march to sea was: whole towns and cities burned to the ground, people's livelihood's turned to ash because of where they lived. Farmers robbed of their livestock and crops, their fields burned and their animals slaughtered. The common man forced into destitution and death.

And you wished that he'd done worse. Why not just say it: you wish we would have genocided the South.

[Cisairse]

Southerners who honor the Confederacy have negative honor.

In the CSA's defense, they make good flags. The Battle Flag of Northern Virginia, the Stars and Bars, and the Blood-Stained Banner are all some of my favorite flags from the 19th century.

The Stainless/Blood-Stained Banners look like they were made in MS Paint

[Kathol Rift]

The same John Brown who was the main player in the massacre of Pottawatomie Creek? Just because he was an abolitionist, doesn’t necessarily mean he was a good person. Do a little bit more research before you suggest memorializing a person.

Wait, how does Pottawatomie make him a bad person?

John Brown is a hero and a martyr.

Because he dragged 5 unarmed people out of their homes at night and murdered them. I know they were slavers, but he still murdered several unarmed people. He’s not necessarily a bad person, and I agree with what he stood for, but I also think he wasn’t as good of a person as lots of people made him out to be.

[Heloin]

And all the ones killed in Pottawatomie where members of Militant Pro Slavery societies or were actively supporting Border Ruffians.

I’m not only talking about Pottawatomie. I’m talking about through all of bleeding Kansas.

Yeah, the argument is still utter bullshit. Saying that the John Brown is bad for fighting and killing people who were trying to expand slavery is a baffling take.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

In the CSA's defense, they make good flags. The Battle Flag of Northern Virginia, the Stars and Bars, and the Blood-Stained Banner are all some of my favorite flags from the 19th century.

The Stainless/Blood-Stained Banners look like they were made in MS Paint

^This.