Freedom for General Flynn!

[Albrenia]

So the DOJ is trying to claim there's no evidence to say he did a thing that he admitted to doing under oath?

So in other words in order to drop these charges they need to collar him for perjury instead.

Except that they coerced him to get him to do so, so he would have the legal defense of entrapment. The prosecutors on the other hand could be charged with suborning perjury, which is a felony.

How did they coerce him?

Not asking in an accusatory sense either, just asking for details.

[Aclion]

This was one of the worst abuses of power in the history of the United States. Those responsible for it must -- MUST -- be brought to justice themselves. No matter how far it leads up the chain of command of the previous regime.

If a three-star general with 30+ years of service to his country can be falsely persecuted and driven to ruin by a rogue regime, what can they do to YOU?

If prosecutors can be charged and punished for bringing charges that are withdrawn, you'll have to let half a million people out of jail AND go after most of the prosecutors in the US.

You OK with that?

There's a bit of a difference between charges being withdrawn because of a good faith mistake or new evidence being discovered, and charges being withdrawn because prosecutors charged a person with a crime they knew was not committed, falsified evidence, withheld exculpatory evidence and coerced a guilty plea.
I think justice demands that(and the legitimacy of our justice system depends on) those responsible here face the appropriate criminal and civil penalty. I also think their needs to be a review of the past cases they've handled(I'm sure quite a few attorneys are already working to secure their clients new trials as we speak).
And it is absolutely not acceptable to refuse to punish prosecutor misconduct misconduct because doing so may result in falsely imprisoned people being released, the fact that injustice is widespread makes action more imperative, not less.

Prosecutors often place charges then withdraw them, in exchange for a guilty plea on lesser charges. It's called a plea bargain.

And cases like this are exactly why there are calls for the practice to be reformed...
Actually that's not true. What happened here is more egregious then anything fueling the reform moment.

Except that they coerced him to get him to do so, so he would have the legal defense of entrapment. The prosecutors on the other hand could be charged with suborning perjury, which is a felony.

How did they coerce him?

Not asking in an accusatory sense either, just asking for details.

The threatened to do basically the same thing to his son.

[Thermodolia]

Here's how I see it. Barr, the most corrupt AG ever, is attempting to drop charges against Flynn so Trump won't have to pardon him. They both tried to pay off Russia for its help in the 2016 elections. Mueller, realizing that the full truth would doom his party, punted to Congress. Barr gutted the Mueller report to keep even that information out of the public eye. Moscow Mitch, who had put the kibosh on any word about the active investigation into the Trump campaign before the election, fell in line and refused to even allow witnesses. Sen. Collins was right when she said Trump learned his lesson from all this: he learned he could do whatever the hell he wanted to do and get away with it. So we have today's latest new impeachable offense.

The choice in November is between Banana Republicans and the rule of law. Vote blue, no matter who, up and down the ballot; or watch the nation's best days recede into the past.

Ya no I’m not voting for a rapist and I’m not falling for the whole “the sky is falling the sky is falling, vote in this moderate bland guy who’s basically a republican or the republicans will win everything!!1!1” bullshit

[Vassenor]

How did they coerce him?

Not asking in an accusatory sense either, just asking for details.

The threatened to do basically the same thing to his son.

That's not entrapment though.

Entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent or agent of the state induces a person to commit a "crime" that the person would have otherwise been unlikely or unwilling to commit.[1] It "is the conception and planning of an offense by an officer or agent, and the procurement of its commission by one who would not have perpetrated it except for the trickery, persuasion or fraud of the officer or state agent."[2]

[-Astoria]

What was that about the so-called "dEeP sTaTe" again?

[Shofercia]

The threatened to do basically the same thing to his son.

That's not entrapment though.

Entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent or agent of the state induces a person to commit a "crime" that the person would have otherwise been unlikely or unwilling to commit.[1] It "is the conception and planning of an offense by an officer or agent, and the procurement of its commission by one who would not have perpetrated it except for the trickery, persuasion or fraud of the officer or state agent."[2]

You mean like how he was interviewed by Peter Strzok, even though he was about to be cleared by the FBI, where Strzok's only hope was to get Flynn to incriminate himself?

FBI agents wrote a memo to close the investigation of Flynn on Jan. 4, 2017, writing they found "no derogatory" evidence that Flynn committed a crime or posed a national security threat. FBI management then ordered the closure to be rescinded and pivoted toward trying lure Flynn into an interview...

Senior Justice officials expressed concern and alarm at the way the FBI was treating Flynn, including trying to interview him without the normally required notification to the Trump White House. Former acting Attorney General Sally Yates expressed significant concern that White House officials weren't being advised. “The interview was problematic from Yates’ perspective because, as a matter of protocol and courtesy, the White House Counsel’s Office should have been notified beforehand," a DOJ memo stated...

Logan Act threat wasn't real. DOJ officials immediately did not believe Flynn could realistically be prosecuted under the Logan Act for his conversations with the Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak. Former Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe testified he was told such a prosecution was a "long shot," and former Assistant Attorney General Mary McCord "said that upon learning of Flynn’s phone calls with Ambassador Kislyak, a Logan Act prosecution seemed like a stretch to her,” DOJ memos say...

FBI officials debated whether they could avoid, disguise or slip in the required FBI admonition against lying to agents at the start of Flynn's interview to keep him off guard. "It would be an easy way to just casually slip that in," FBI lawyer Lisa Page texted during the discussions... Then-Assistant Director for Counterintelligence William Priestap wrote in handwritten notes that he feared the bureau was "playing games" with the Flynn interview in an effort to get the national security adviser to lie so "we can prosecute him or get him fired."

[Aclion]

The threatened to do basically the same thing to his son.

That's not entrapment though.

Entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent or agent of the state induces a person to commit a "crime" that the person would have otherwise been unlikely or unwilling to commit.[1] It "is the conception and planning of an offense by an officer or agent, and the procurement of its commission by one who would not have perpetrated it except for the trickery, persuasion or fraud of the officer or state agent."[2]

Check and check.
There can hardly be a higher standard of inducement then coercion. And i'd love to see an argument that Flynn was predisposed to offer a false guilty plea.

[Vassenor]

That's not entrapment though.

Check and check.
There can hardly be a higher standard of inducement then coercion. And i'd love to see an argument that Flynn was predisposed to offer a false guilty plea.

So what illegal act was Flynn induced to commit that he wouldn't otherwise have committed?

And we're not talking about a false guilty plea. We're talking about things he stated under oath that the DOJ is now claiming were lies in order to junk its own case.

[Rojava Free State]

implying he was falsely prosecuted lmao. The Whitehouse is now the crackhouse, and uncle Sam is the pusher man.

[Qabea]

I think this should lead into discussions over the use of "perjury traps" it serms like a law enfircement technique that ought to be abolished. They're literally trying to make someone commit a crime even if that individual is innocent or not.

[Rojava Free State]

Here's how I see it. Barr, the most corrupt AG ever, is attempting to drop charges against Flynn so Trump won't have to pardon him. They both tried to pay off Russia for its help in the 2016 elections. Mueller, realizing that the full truth would doom his party, punted to Congress. Barr gutted the Mueller report to keep even that information out of the public eye. Moscow Mitch, who had put the kibosh on any word about the active investigation into the Trump campaign before the election, fell in line and refused to even allow witnesses. Sen. Collins was right when she said Trump learned his lesson from all this: he learned he could do whatever the hell he wanted to do and get away with it. So we have today's latest new impeachable offense.

The choice in November is between Banana Republicans and the rule of law. Vote blue, no matter who, up and down the ballot; or watch the nation's best days recede into the past.

Ya no I’m not voting for a rapist and I’m not falling for the whole “the sky is falling the sky is falling, vote in this moderate bland guy who’s basically a republican or the republicans will win everything!!1!1” bullshit

Same especially since modern biden is personally alot like trump anyways.

I mean what could be a more trumpish thing than to yell "LOOK HERE FAT" at some guy and demand you and him have a pushup contest, or saying you would physically fight Trump?

[Aclion]

implying he was falsely prosecuted lmao. The Whitehouse is now the crackhouse, and uncle Sam is the pusher man.

Have you read anything about the documents that were released?

I think this should lead into discussions over the use of "perjury traps" it serms like a law enfircement technique that ought to be abolished. They're literally trying to make someone commit a crime even if that individual is innocent or not.

I don't know about purjury traps but there's already bill in the works to give more transparency to prosecutorial misconduct. https://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavl ... 2748e73170

Check and check.
There can hardly be a higher standard of inducement then coercion. And i'd love to see an argument that Flynn was predisposed to offer a false guilty plea.

So what illegal act was Flynn induced to commit that he wouldn't otherwise have committed?

And we're not talking about a false guilty plea. We're talking about things he stated under oath that the DOJ is now claiming were lies in order to junk its own case.

The affirmations you are suggesting he be charged for.

So the DOJ is trying to claim there's no evidence to say he did a thing that he admitted to doing under oath?

So in other words in order to drop these charges they need to collar him for perjury instead.

You seem to be rather mixed up. Though i'm not sure if it's about this conversation or the oder of events in the case.

[Zurkerx]

Here's how I see it. Barr, the most corrupt AG ever, is attempting to drop charges against Flynn so Trump won't have to pardon him. They both tried to pay off Russia for its help in the 2016 elections. Mueller, realizing that the full truth would doom his party, punted to Congress. Barr gutted the Mueller report to keep even that information out of the public eye. Moscow Mitch, who had put the kibosh on any word about the active investigation into the Trump campaign before the election, fell in line and refused to even allow witnesses. Sen. Collins was right when she said Trump learned his lesson from all this: he learned he could do whatever the hell he wanted to do and get away with it. So we have today's latest new impeachable offense.

The choice in November is between Banana Republicans and the rule of law. Vote blue, no matter who, up and down the ballot; or watch the nation's best days recede into the past.

*** Warned for Political Nicknaming/Trolling ***

[Vassenor]

implying he was falsely prosecuted lmao. The Whitehouse is now the crackhouse, and uncle Sam is the pusher man.

Have you read anything about the documents that were released?

Why don't you educate us then. With citations.

[Aclion]

Have you read anything about the documents that were released?

Why don't you educate us then. With citations.

Because I know you will refuse any publication that is not in lock step with your conspiracy theory and it will be much more fun watching you squirm anyway once charges start getting filed.

[Vassenor]

Why don't you educate us then. With citations.

Because I know you will refuse any publication that is not in lock step with your conspiracy theory and it will be much more fun watching you squirm anyway once charges start getting filed.

Or you can't and don't want to admit it.

[Aclion]

Because I know you will refuse any publication that is not in lock step with your conspiracy theory and it will be much more fun watching you squirm anyway once charges start getting filed.

Or you can't and don't want to admit it.

I'm willing to breakout the hand puppets for any person who requests them.

[Shofercia]

Because I know you will refuse any publication that is not in lock step with your conspiracy theory and it will be much more fun watching you squirm anyway once charges start getting filed.

Or you can't and don't want to admit it.

On January 4, 2017, FBI Deputy Assistant Director Peter Strzok learned that “RAZOR’s closure” had not been timely executed, and the counterintelligence investigation into Mr. Flynn was, unexpectedly, still formally open. Ex. 7 at 1-2. Mr. Strzok immediately relayed the “serendipitously good” news to Lisa Page, the Special Counsel to FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, remarking that “our utter incompetence actually helps us.” Id. at 1. Ms. Page reacted with surprise and relief.

"Our actual incompetence actually helps us!"
"I'm relieved that we're so incompetent!"

FBI Director Comey took the position that the FBI would not notify the incoming Trump administration of the Flynn-Kislyak communications. Ex. 3 at 4-5; Ex. 4 at 4. Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates and other senior DOJ officials took the contrary view and believed that the incoming administration should be notified... The Deputy Attorney General, Director of National Intelligence, and Director of the Central Intelligence Agency all agreed that the FBI should notify the incoming Trump administration of
what had actually been said on the calls... In advance of the interview, Director Comey determined that they would go interview Mr. Flynn the following day without notifying either DOJ or the White House.

Sauce: https://justthenews.com/sites/default/f ... _FILED.pdf

That's an actual Court Document. Can you please not ignore it, just because it doesn't fit your narrative?

[Aclion]

Or you can't and don't want to admit it.

On January 4, 2017, FBI Deputy Assistant Director Peter Strzok learned that “RAZOR’s closure” had not been timely executed, and the counterintelligence investigation into Mr. Flynn was, unexpectedly, still formally open. Ex. 7 at 1-2. Mr. Strzok immediately relayed the “serendipitously good” news to Lisa Page, the Special Counsel to FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, remarking that “our utter incompetence actually helps us.” Id. at 1. Ms. Page reacted with surprise and relief.

"Our actual incompetence actually helps us!"
"I'm relieved that we're so incompetent!"

FBI Director Comey took the position that the FBI would not notify the incoming Trump administration of the Flynn-Kislyak communications. Ex. 3 at 4-5; Ex. 4 at 4. Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates and other senior DOJ officials took the contrary view and believed that the incoming administration should be notified... The Deputy Attorney General, Director of National Intelligence, and Director of the Central Intelligence Agency all agreed that the FBI should notify the incoming Trump administration of
what had actually been said on the calls... In advance of the interview, Director Comey determined that they would go interview Mr. Flynn the following day without notifying either DOJ or the White House.

Sauce: https://justthenews.com/sites/default/f ... _FILED.pdf

That's an actual Court Document. Can you please not ignore it, just because it doesn't fit your narrative?

why are you even trying? You know better.

[Shofercia]

"Our actual incompetence actually helps us!"
"I'm relieved that we're so incompetent!"



Sauce: https://justthenews.com/sites/default/f ... _FILED.pdf

That's an actual Court Document. Can you please not ignore it, just because it doesn't fit your narrative?

why are you even trying? You know better.

Maybe another poster might start responding to me, and we can further unpack this case?

There's so much to unpack here, perhaps we can discuss it, if others aren't interested: https://sidneypowell.com/wp-content/upl ... hments.pdf

[Vassenor]

Or you can't and don't want to admit it.

I'm willing to breakout the hand puppets for any person who requests them.

Because we needed more reasons to stop taking what you claim seriously beyond your screaming about conspiracies and your belief that deciding to drop charges predicated on someone stating a thing under oath constitutes entrapment to commit perjury.

[Panslavicland]

This is excellent news, I hope the next step is to fire and prosecute the agents and attorneys responsible for General Flynn's persecution. I look forward to seeing him back in the Trump administration during his second term!

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

This is excellent news, I hope the next step is to fire and prosecute the agents and attorneys responsible for General Flynn's persecution. I look forward to seeing him back in the Trump administration during his second term!

How dare you imply that Trump’s justice administration could do any wrong? It’s disgusting that you would disparage the president in such a manner.

[Nazeroth]

This is excellent news, I hope the next step is to fire and prosecute the agents and attorneys responsible for General Flynn's persecution. I look forward to seeing him back in the Trump administration during his second term!

How dare you imply that Trump’s justice administration could do any wrong? It’s disgusting that you would disparage the president in such a manner.

Your mad as fuck

[Shofercia]

I'm willing to breakout the hand puppets for any person who requests them.

Because we needed more reasons to stop taking what you claim seriously beyond your screaming about conspiracies and your belief that deciding to drop charges predicated on someone stating a thing under oath constitutes entrapment to commit perjury.

His former attorneys implicitly working with the prosecution to allegedly prevent being charged for their own mistake, sort of taint the whole guilty plea.

By November 1, 2017, Special Counsel [“SCO”] notified Covington that it recognized Covington’s conflict of interest from the FARA registration. Government counsel specified Mr. Flynn’s liability for “false statements” in the FARA registration, and he told Covington to discuss it with Mr. Flynn. This etched the conflict in stone. Covington betrayed Mr. Flynn. His lawyers did not discuss this concrete attorney-to-client conflict with him. They did not insist he obtain independent counsel. They did not advise him Special Counsel had focused on FARA issues. They did not withdraw. Instead, his own lawyers kept it all a secret from him for weeks. Then, they tendered him defenseless and uninformed to SCO...

On February 13, 2017, the day Mr. Flynn resigned from the White House, David Laufman, along with Heather Hunt of the FARA Unit, among others, had a call with Covington to pressure them to file the FARA forms immediately. The next day—Mr. Flynn’s first day out of the White House, with media camped around
his house 24/7—Rob Kelner and Brian Smith of Covington, and Kristen Verderame, called Mr. Flynn to give him a status update on the FARA issues. Mr. Flynn accepted their recommendation that it was better to file...

Better for whom? Why his attorneys of course, rather than General Flynn.

Despite SCO’s expressed concerns, and despite Kelner’s promise to address with his client that remarkable fact that the SCO had just raised the conflict of interest and Mr. Kelner’s position as a witness adverse to his own client, Kelner and Anthony said nothing to Mr. Flynn. Covington did not raise the preclusive conflict with their client on November 1st. They did not raise it when they met with Mr. Flynn three days later on November 4th. They did not raise it in proffer preparation. They did not raise it before the first proffer, and they did not raise it the night of the first proffer or the day of the second proffer...

The Covington lawyers continued to withhold the most important information: (i) that the prosecutors themselves had raised Covington’s serious conflict of interest; (ii) the fact that the SCO had suggested calling Kelner as a witness; (iii) the lawyers had their own fear of the firm being subjected to the “Manafort treatment”; the headline risk of Covington in federal crime-fraud order because of their FARA filing; and, their own criminal exposure if the SCO deemed the lawyers co-conspirators instead of having the government operate on the theory of “Flynn-lied-tohis-lawyers” discussed in their internal email only days earlier.

That's not even public defender level of incompetence. That's just sad. Speaking of actual collusion between defense counsel and prosecution:

Covington subjected Mr. Flynn to two full days of proffers on the issues on which he had the greatest “exposure” while they hid their conflict of interest. Not only did they not object to any questions by the SCO, they asked questions of him themselves to elicit answers the SCO wanted, and they strongly encouraged him, the second day, to say what they deemed would “get him through the proffer” to the satisfaction of the SCO... He had been told that his freedom and his son’s freedom hung in the balance based on how these time-critical proffers went, and he would likely be indicted in days if the proffers “didn’t go well”—which meant to SCO’s satisfaction.

If a Liberal had been so thoroughly screwed by his attorney, you'd be screaming about murder, Vass. But because it's a Conservative, you're shutting your ears and going "falalalala he pled guilty, falalalala" even when the FBI agents didn't think that he was guilty:

The information that counsel withheld concerned prior statements that the two FBI agents who interviewed Mr. Flynn in the White House had made about his “sure demeanor,” the lack of “indicators of deception,” and similar observations.

Lack of indicators of deception, do I need to explain to you what that means Vass?