Capitalism vs Communism dosnt matter

[Self--Esteem]

You obviously do not know anything about small/minimal governments, then. A small government, as described by many Libertarians, does not even have the power to bailout companies or regulate.

Which makes one wonder if it has the power to protect rights at all.

Bailouts and economic regulations have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the law and the underlying judical system.

Judical /=/ Legislative /=/ Executive

Those are three utterly different departments. Constraining the powers of the legislative and the executive to some basic laws does not constrain the judical of any power.

[North Suran]

Efficient does not equal beneficial.

The US healthcare system is efficient. It also leaves over 30 million US citizens without health coverage.

A lot fo them choosing too- they can afford it instead of other luxuries.

Like food.

Besides, many of those who go without it really don't need it, seeing how the majority are young (20's-30's).

Young people are immune to illness?

To make it cheaper, eliminate the restrictions across state lines, get rid of the oligarchy, and remove pre-existing conditions.

Or, just subsidise it so that people can actually afford it.

Subsidizing is kind of the universal cure for all you mixed economy believers, eh?

This coming from a free market capitalist? Your economic theory's answer to every issue is "Market forces are infallible".

If you understood economy, you would agree with that.

I understand economics, and that is why I do not agree with that. Market forces are determined by demand and supply - which are controlled by humans. Humans are by no means infallible. Subsequently, market forces will not instantly resolve any and all issues which arise. The fact that we are currently going through an international recession proves that market forces are by no means infallible.

Due to their very structure, market forces are far more effective than any government.

Effective =/= Infallible.

You cannot demand perfect health care from a government.

Nor can you demand perfect health care from a private company.

Let alone cheap and accurate one.

I guess the National Health Service is just lies and Mexican propaganda.

The government structure along with all it's bureaucracy prevent it from becoming effective and productive.

HMOs probably have just as much bureacracy as government-run healthcare services do.

As for the above. I really fail to see why subsidisation should be a necessity, when all you need to do is abolish those state border restrictions. A growing competition lets prices plummet.

Because the healthcare service in the USA is an oligopoly. Private companies seek to maximise their profit margins, not universally provide a service. It is within their interests to keep prices high. Increasing competition in an imperfect market is useless and ineffectual. Subsidies, on the other hand, will force healthcare firms to lower their costs, in order to provide a service to more people.

[Jello Biafra]

You obviously do not know anything about small/minimal governments, then. A small government, as described by many Libertarians, does not even have the power to bailout companies or regulate.

Which makes one wonder if it has the power to protect rights at all.

Bailouts and economic regulations have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the law and the underlying judical system.

Judical /=/ Legislative /=/ Executive

Those are three utterly different departments. Constraining the powers of the legislative and the executive to some basic laws does not constrain the judical of any power.

A police force is not part of the judiciary.

[Andaluciae]

Utopian theories of economic organization--and drives for increased purity of operation--have always struck me as somewhat silly, and rather out of touch with the real world. The only truly effective system for economic organization is one based on slow muddling and semi-responsive government policies, tailored, as appropriate, for the needs and desires of the population at the point in time being observed.

[Jello Biafra]

Utopian theories of economic organization--and drives for increased purity of operation--have always struck me as somewhat silly, and rather out of touch with the real world. The only truly effective system for economic organization is one based on slow muddling and semi-responsive government policies, tailored, as appropriate, for the needs and desires of the population at the point in time being observed.

Define 'effectiveness'.
Why is it desireable?

[Rentalia]

This coming from a free market capitalist? Your economic theory's answer to every issue is "Market forces are infallible".

If you understood economy, you would agree with that.

LOLZ

[Russo-Dellia]

we're socalist

[Self--Esteem]

You obviously do not know anything about small/minimal governments, then. A small government, as described by many Libertarians, does not even have the power to bailout companies or regulate.

Which makes one wonder if it has the power to protect rights at all.

Bailouts and economic regulations have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the law and the underlying judical system.

Judical /=/ Legislative /=/ Executive

Those are three utterly different departments. Constraining the powers of the legislative and the executive to some basic laws does not constrain the judical of any power.

A police force is not part of the judiciary.

Your point?

It is not a part of the legislative either.

[Big Jim P]

If one wants to live in anything like a modern state where one isn't afraid for their lives on a daily basis then one needs a government.

Not true. I do not live in fear of my life by my own abilities. The only thing that the government/society provide me with (beyond my own capabilities) are conveniences. Nothing more.

[Glorious Homeland]

I guess the National Health Service is just lies and Mexican propaganda.

Just because we can organise public companies relatively effectively and the Americans can't... they assume "IT CAN'T BE DONE, NO ONE CAN DO, IT'S SOCIALISM, DON'T DO IT!"... haha. You know what I call that? National failure!

Not true. I do not live in fear of my life by my own abilities. The only thing that the government/society provide me with (beyond my own capabilities) are conveniences. Nothing more.

If you'd be living in the middle of nowhere off the land, perhaps I'd agree with that assessment, but you are using a computer and the internet, so I'll presume you're not that apathetic in the face of what society and government regulations manage to provide. Besides the BBC is more than a convenience! It's a national treasure, same for the NHS, police force, army, parliamentary system, etc.

[Rentalia]

Not true. I do not live in fear of my life by my own abilities. The only thing that the government/society provide me with (beyond my own capabilities) are conveniences. Nothing more.

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

Then, after spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, I drive back to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and the fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log onto the Internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

[Andaluciae]

Utopian theories of economic organization--and drives for increased purity of operation--have always struck me as somewhat silly, and rather out of touch with the real world. The only truly effective system for economic organization is one based on slow muddling and semi-responsive government policies, tailored, as appropriate, for the needs and desires of the population at the point in time being observed.

Define 'effectiveness'.
Why is it desireable?

Whatever works to provide a modicum of freedom, security and prosperity. My preference is for a trial-and-error system of tinkering to identify the correct course of action at any given point in time.

I have no doubt that the appropriate course of action varies across time and geography, so I'm not going to pretend that there's some sort of optimal course of action for everyone, all of the time, everywhere--although we often see some strategies that do tend to do rather well in some locations.

[Treznor]

Not true. I do not live in fear of my life by my own abilities. The only thing that the government/society provide me with (beyond my own capabilities) are conveniences. Nothing more.

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

Then, after spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, I drive back to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and the fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log onto the Internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

[Big Jim P]

Not true. I do not live in fear of my life by my own abilities. The only thing that the government/society provide me with (beyond my own capabilities) are conveniences. Nothing more.

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

Then, after spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, I drive back to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and the fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log onto the Internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

Point out ONE of those that are required for you to survive, and then get back to me. Until then, they are conveniences.

[Self--Esteem]

Anectodes. The poor man's truth.

There are countries who are less government dependent, when it comes to electricity and water supply. Do you really think we would have to drink water out of a rain barrel, if it was not for the government?

[Yethtu]

Not true. I do not live in fear of my life by my own abilities. The only thing that the government/society provide me with (beyond my own capabilities) are conveniences. Nothing more.

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

Then, after spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, I drive back to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and the fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log onto the Internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

Point out ONE of those that are required for you to survive, and get back to me. Until then, they are conveniences.

Fine, I dare YOU to live without any of these things, including the clean water, for a month

Surely you can manage without simple conceniences

[Treznor]

Not true. I do not live in fear of my life by my own abilities. The only thing that the government/society provide me with (beyond my own capabilities) are conveniences. Nothing more.

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

Then, after spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, I drive back to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and the fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log onto the Internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

Point out ONE of those that are required for you to survive, and then get back to me. Until then, they are conveniences.

Let's see, clean water, safe food, safe transportation, safety in the workplace, safe shelter and personal safety. I count six. Anyone else?

[Parthenon]

Yes, free us into a poverty-stricken chaotic craphole. Hooray for the destruction of the state.

Indeed smash the State so we can go back to Feudalism! Huzzah for Serfdom!

This would only happen if we were still a religous un-educated un-enlightened world.

If you honestly think that in the absence of states the general population is going to recieve education through schooling and various other avenues then you honestly haven't thought this suggestion through...

[Big Jim P]

Not true. I do not live in fear of my life by my own abilities. The only thing that the government/society provide me with (beyond my own capabilities) are conveniences. Nothing more.

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

Then, after spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, I drive back to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and the fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log onto the Internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

Point out ONE of those that are required for you to survive, and get back to me. Until then, they are conveniences.

Fine, I dare YOU to live without any of these things, including the clean water, for a month

Surely you can manage without simple conceniences

I can and have, and please note: I am capable of making water drinkable. I can do a great many other things as well. It is called self-sufficiency, and those of you raised on the government/social tit would do well to learn it.

[Treznor]

Anectodes. The poor man's truth.

There are countries who are less government dependent, when it comes to electricity and water supply. Do you really think we would have to drink water out of a rain barrel, if it was not for the government?

In those countries, people tend to die a lot more often because of lax regulatory standards in delivering electricity and ensuring clean water. In short, yes. Without regulatory oversight, people's lives can be at stake.

[Big Jim P]

Not true. I do not live in fear of my life by my own abilities. The only thing that the government/society provide me with (beyond my own capabilities) are conveniences. Nothing more.

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

Then, after spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, I drive back to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and the fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log onto the Internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

Point out ONE of those that are required for you to survive, and then get back to me. Until then, they are conveniences.

Let's see, clean water, safe food, safe transportation, safety in the workplace, safe shelter and personal safety. I count six. Anyone else?

How many of these can I provide for myself? I count six. Anyone else?

[Yethtu]

Not true. I do not live in fear of my life by my own abilities. The only thing that the government/society provide me with (beyond my own capabilities) are conveniences. Nothing more.

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

Then, after spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, I drive back to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and the fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log onto the Internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

Point out ONE of those that are required for you to survive, and then get back to me. Until then, they are conveniences.

Let's see, clean water, safe food, safe transportation, safety in the workplace, safe shelter and personal safety. I count six. Anyone else?

How many of these can I provide for myself? I count six. Anyone else?

As I said, do so for a month to prove it.

[Treznor]

Point out ONE of those that are required for you to survive, and get back to me. Until then, they are conveniences.

Fine, I dare YOU to live without any of these things, including the clean water, for a month

Surely you can manage without simple conceniences

I can and have, and please note: I am capable of making water drinkable. I can do a great many other things as well. It is called self-sufficiency, and those of you raised on the government/social tit would do well to learn it.

Uh huh. And without the infrastructure created by the government to ensure quality of products, just how many people do you think are going to learn how to become self-sufficient? How many of them are going to be aware that they need to ensure their water is safe to drink? You're arguing self-sufficiency after you've benefited from a society that has had to drill into its citizens heads why regulation is necessary in the first place, since it's cheaper to deliver goods and services without safety regulations.

[Rentalia]

Point out ONE of those that are required for you to survive, and then get back to me. Until then, they are conveniences.

I firmly refuse to answer seriously to this moronic sentence

Damn I believe that "economic liberalism" should be included in the next DSM-V near Asperger's Syndrome as form of autism

[Big Jim P]

Not true. I do not live in fear of my life by my own abilities. The only thing that the government/society provide me with (beyond my own capabilities) are conveniences. Nothing more.

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

Then, after spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, I drive back to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and the fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log onto the Internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

Point out ONE of those that are required for you to survive, and then get back to me. Until then, they are conveniences.

Let's see, clean water, safe food, safe transportation, safety in the workplace, safe shelter and personal safety. I count six. Anyone else?

How many of these can I provide for myself? I count six. Anyone else?

As I said, do so for a month to prove it.

After you my friend.

turn off your eloctonic nursemaid for a month, and I will see you the