Capitalism vs Communism dosnt matter

[Rentalia]

anarcho-capitalism is a oxymoron

[Sagatagan]

anarcho-capitalism is a oxymoron

THANK YOU

[Georgism]

I also disagree with you where you say that there is no perfect economic system. Pure capitalism is perfect. The reason nobody has seen this perfection is that whenever someone tries to create it (and this has only ever happened in the US), the liberals dilute it with socialist programs like welfare and nationalizing of industry.

Oh yes. Because everyone remembers what a Utopian paradise Edwardian England was, before those filthy Liberals and Labourites brought in their welfare reforms.

Wait a sec...is that an elephant over there? And why is "Majority of working class living in poverty" stamped on its chest? And why is it dying of tuberculosis?

Sounds like it was living in Edwardian England.

[New Ziedrich]

Capitalism isn't the enemy. Communism isn't the enemy. The State isn't the enemy. The real enemy is greed, which has existed for longer than capitalism, communism, and the nation state. Everything else is merely a tool that the greedy exploit for their own gain, and to blame anything else is scapegoating.

At least, that's how I see it. Basically, people will find new and exciting ways to be assholes to each other. The hard part is convincing them to cut it out.

[Conserative Morality]

Capitalism isn't the enemy. Communism isn't the enemy. The State isn't the enemy. The real enemy is greed, which has existed for longer than capitalism, communism, and the nation state. Everything else is merely a tool that the greedy exploit for their own gain, and to blame anything else is scapegoating.

At least, that's how I see it. Basically, people will find new and exciting ways to be assholes to each other. The hard part is convincing them to cut it out.

Why Greed? Greed is useful. Greed drives capitalism, Greed drives our economy.

[Treznor]

Capitalism isn't the enemy. Communism isn't the enemy. The State isn't the enemy. The real enemy is greed, which has existed for longer than capitalism, communism, and the nation state. Everything else is merely a tool that the greedy exploit for their own gain, and to blame anything else is scapegoating.

At least, that's how I see it. Basically, people will find new and exciting ways to be assholes to each other. The hard part is convincing them to cut it out.

Why Greed? Greed is useful. Greed drives capitalism, Greed drives our economy.

I agree with both of you. Greed is the problem, but greed is what drives modern economies. The solution is to temper greed with compassion.

[North Suran]

Capitalism isn't the enemy. Communism isn't the enemy. The State isn't the enemy. The real enemy is greed, which has existed for longer than capitalism, communism, and the nation state. Everything else is merely a tool that the greedy exploit for their own gain, and to blame anything else is scapegoating.

At least, that's how I see it. Basically, people will find new and exciting ways to be assholes to each other. The hard part is convincing them to cut it out.

Why Greed? Greed is useful. Greed drives capitalism, Greed drives our economy.

I agree with both of you. Greed is the problem, but greed is what drives modern economies. The solution is to temper greed with compassion.

The solution is to keep greed in line, so that it cannot cross the point where it changes from being a driving force in the economy to a disaster waiting to happen.

See for reference: Most of the "too big to fail" banks.

[Kamsaki]

Why Greed? Greed is useful. Greed drives capitalism, Greed drives our economy.

So does illegal immigration, but you don't see us hailing it as a good thing.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

All those years of slowly developing the state to serve the people the best they can, to just abolish it?

No thanks.

[Lelouche]

But what I am saying is that no matter what your economic beliefs are, the real enemy is the STATE.

But the State is just a reflection of a people's responsibility towards self-governance. It wouldn't be there if people took the decision to either dissolve it, leave or revolt, because without anyone to govern, the state would just collapse.

It's ridiculous to assume that the State has position as an enemy in and of itself. The enemy, if there is one, must be those individuals who twist the state to manipulate the vulnerable, and such people won't simply stop manipulating if we presume that the institutions of power are what are responsible for the denial of liberty.

Co-operative opposition to the state means challenging its rulings when such are oppressive, even those formed through process of law or democracy, but acknowledging one's own role in the state being as it is. Or, of course, just leaving, which is always an option.

Not really
You'd be surprised how difficult it is to actually leave a place of origin for the majority of the human population.
It's about as convenient as choosing between life, and death.

[Yethtu]

It is not the people verses the state, it is the Powerful Few v.s the Weak Many. That powerful few CAN be the state, but can just as often be a oligarchal elite bussiness class that controls such and obscene amout of the capital that they can do just about whatever they want. That, my fellow humans, is when another force steps in with the power to assist the Weak Many. This can be bussniess if the State is the Powerful Few, or the State if Bussniess is the powerful few

[Minnarkh]

All those years of slowly developing the state to serve the people the best they can, to just abolish it?

No thanks.

If it were only true. Sadly the state has developed into a vehicle that can be used to serve the corporate interest of a few rather than the people as a whole.

Minimal government is a necessary evil, large government is just an unnecessary evil that hinders it's it inhabitants more than it actually helps them.

[Lelouche]

tl; dr

I don't think freedom is any more than a means to an end. If freedom conflicts with those ends then it should be tailored to fit.

The state is the means to tailor freedom to allow it to perform its primary function

Fascist

[Treznor]

All those years of slowly developing the state to serve the people the best they can, to just abolish it?

No thanks.

If it were only true. Sadly the state has developed into a vehicle that can be used to serve the corporate interest of a few rather than the people as a whole.

Minimal government is a necessary evil, large government is just an unnecessary evil that hinders it's it inhabitants more than it helps them.

Let's try this again.

Small government can be as bad or worse than big government. The size of government is not the issue, it's the quality of government. A government that is not accountable to its people, that does not serve the people's interests is a bad government. A government that is accountable and does serve the people's interests is a good government. Size is irrelevant.

[North Suran]

All those years of slowly developing the state to serve the people the best they can, to just abolish it?

No thanks.

If it were only true. Sadly the state has developed into a vehicle that can be used to serve the corporate interest of a few rather than the people as a whole.

Minimal government is a necessary evil, large government is just an unnecessary evil that hinders it's it inhabitants more than it actually helps them.

Minimal government is far more prone to serving corporate interests than a larger form.

[Georgism]

tl; dr

I don't think freedom is any more than a means to an end. If freedom conflicts with those ends then it should be tailored to fit.

The state is the means to tailor freedom to allow it to perform its primary function

Fascist

Please, feel free to elaborate

[New Ziedrich]

Capitalism isn't the enemy. Communism isn't the enemy. The State isn't the enemy. The real enemy is greed, which has existed for longer than capitalism, communism, and the nation state. Everything else is merely a tool that the greedy exploit for their own gain, and to blame anything else is scapegoating.

At least, that's how I see it. Basically, people will find new and exciting ways to be assholes to each other. The hard part is convincing them to cut it out.

Why Greed? Greed is useful. Greed drives capitalism, Greed drives our economy.

I'd like to differentiate between a simple desire for goods and services, including "luxury" items that aren't strictly necessary to sustain life and health, and what I consider to be greed, which is actually pretty similar, but with the added willingness to commit unethical and downright mean methods of obtaining said goods and wealth and so on. It's less "I want more stuff" than it is "I am willing to hurt you so I can have more stuff."

Basically, how much of an asshole did someone have to be to obtain what he has? Of course, even this is somewhat subjective, depending on one's worldview and standards of morality. However, there are some things that a majority of us can agree to be pretty inappropriate. For example, I'm sure most of us can agree that Kenneth Lay and his ilk all suck.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

All those years of slowly developing the state to serve the people the best they can, to just abolish it?

No thanks.

If it were only true. Sadly the state has developed into a vehicle that can be used to serve the corporate interest of a few rather than the people as a whole.

Minimal government is a necessary evil, large government is just an unnecessary evil that hinders it's it inhabitants more than it actually helps them.

Let see the developments:
Improved health care.
Improved education.
Improved safety.

Without big government lots of these improvements wouldn't of happened.

[Conserative Morality]

I agree with both of you. Greed is the problem, but greed is what drives modern economies. The solution is to temper greed with compassion.

The trick is to temper greed with not compassion, but moderation. Through the law.

[Conserative Morality]

So does illegal immigration, but you don't see us hailing it as a good thing.

Illegal Immigration has never been a driving force of our economy. Cheap labor via immigration of some sort, possibly, but not illegal immigration in and of itself.

[Conserative Morality]

I'd like to differentiate between a simple desire for goods and services, including "luxury" items that aren't strictly necessary to sustain life and health, and what I consider to be greed, which is actually pretty similar, but with the added willingness to commit unethical and downright mean methods of obtaining said goods and wealth and so on. It's less "I want more stuff" than it is "I am willing to hurt you so I can have more stuff."

Check your shoes, your clothes, your computer, your everyday household items. Tell me, how were they all made?

[Lelouche]

tl; dr

I don't think freedom is any more than a means to an end. If freedom conflicts with those ends then it should be tailored to fit.

The state is the means to tailor freedom to allow it to perform its primary function

Fascist

Please, feel free to elaborate

Your statement reeks of "The States right to exist"
The State does not have the right to exist, it exists purely at the whim of the populace, and it's "Right" to rule, is rather a privilege, one that can be revoked at any time, for any reason.

The State is not sovereign, it is a construct. Only individuals are sovereign.

Absent from the State, all individuals are free, (have Freedom) States exist when masses of people of similar ideological mindsets desire security, and thus sacrifice a portion of their freedom, in exchange for that security. (Ideally, There are governments that do not rule by consent, and thus deserve to be destroyed, it is the will of the people)

[Lelouche]

All those years of slowly developing the state to serve the people the best they can, to just abolish it?

No thanks.

If it were only true. Sadly the state has developed into a vehicle that can be used to serve the corporate interest of a few rather than the people as a whole.

Minimal government is a necessary evil, large government is just an unnecessary evil that hinders it's it inhabitants more than it actually helps them.

Let see the developments:
Improved health care.
Improved education.
Improved safety.

Without big government lots of these improvements wouldn't of happened.

Tell you what....prove that last statement
Show us a place where Government never happened, then show us it's lack of "Improved conditions"
We will wait.

[Conserative Morality]

Your statement reeks of "The States right to exist"
The State does not have the right to exist, it exists purely at the whim of the populace, and it's "Right" to rule, is rather a privilege, one that can be revoked at any time, for any reason.

The State is not sovereign, it is a construct. Only individuals are sovereign.

Absent from the State, all individuals are free, (have Freedom) States exist when masses of people of similar ideological mindsets desire security, and thus sacrifice a portion of their freedom, in exchange for that security. (Ideally, There are governments that do not rule by consent, and thus deserve to be destroyed, it is the will of the people)

Power grants freedom. So long as someone has control over himself, he has freedom. The moment someone is weaker than another opportunistic person, their freedom is forfeit in entirety. The State allows some Freedom to be granted, in exchange protecting from others who would take away all freedom, originally. Now, the State allows some freedom to be granted, in exchange for protecting from others who would take away all freedom, and States who would grant less freedom or protection.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

All those years of slowly developing the state to serve the people the best they can, to just abolish it?

No thanks.

If it were only true. Sadly the state has developed into a vehicle that can be used to serve the corporate interest of a few rather than the people as a whole.

Minimal government is a necessary evil, large government is just an unnecessary evil that hinders it's it inhabitants more than it actually helps them.

Let see the developments:
Improved health care.
Improved education.
Improved safety.

Without big government lots of these improvements wouldn't of happened.

Tell you what....prove that last statement
Show us a place where Government never happened, then show us it's lack of "Improved conditions"
We will wait.

That wouldn't be proving my statement.

What would be proving my statement is showing you how big government has improved these conditions.