NATION

PASSWORD

Ban urban vehicles

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

I think..

Yes, there is little need for private vehicles in cities and even public can be electric
71
30%
No, it's my goddamn right to do what I want even if that means polluting my environment
92
39%
Can I have one of those toy ambulances?
8
3%
Ban during the day, but not at night for.. reasons..
3
1%
Ban during the night but not in the day for.. other reasons
7
3%
Hasselhoff will transport us on his mighty shoulders
36
15%
Other.
19
8%
 
Total votes : 236

User avatar
Bombadil
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13950
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Ban urban vehicles

Postby Bombadil » Wed May 06, 2020 2:06 am

Jalandhar is a city in Northern India, in the state of Punjab. Like all Indian cities Jalandhar has been in lockdown with everybody inside their homes, but a couple of weeks ago, there was this bright sunny day and the residents of the city went outside onto their roofs, and what they saw was this amazing view of snow-capped mountains—the Himalayas. This view was celebrated all over social media. There are tons of pictures of these mountains on Instagram and TikTok videos of people zooming in on these crisp snow-capped peaks.

This was a big deal because many people were seeing these mountains for the first time. Raghu Karnad wrote about this phenomenon for The New Yorker and he says that because of air pollution, the mountains have been completely obscured for decades. Karnad says that locals think the last time these mountains had been visible had been around 30 years ago.


Link

Now in rural areas I can accept that cars are a necessity, however I really do think there needs to be a major change in urban travel, I'm also thinking a lot of air travel is spurious and polluting. This virus has weirdly given us a view of a world without major pollution, a lot of which, especially at more dangerous ground levels in cities, comes from cars and potentially planes given the proximity of airports to major cities.

Where I live there's no cars, our ambulances look like this: https://imgur.com/a/FwRNF4x

That's right, they're toys run on electricity, same goes for our fire engines and police vehicles, we have electric community vehicles for the elderly and sick, otherwise you're on bicycle or on foot. It's possible.

It's not just emission pollution, it's noise pollution, the rumble, the honking, the beep beep of traffic lights.

From The New Yorker article..

The constancy of car horns in India is legend, a stock line for travel writers. I could never have imagined it possible, in an Indian city, to wake up not to the sounds of traffic but to the sovereignty of bulbuls and mynahs over the morning air. I wonder when an Indian city last felt like this. I wonder when I last felt like this.

In Hong Kong in general there's always been a debate about whether pollution is internal or from China, the result being that little was ever done about it. However this virus has also created unprecedented opportunities for research.

“What we’re seeing now is unprecedented: drops in commercial activity, industrial activity, and transport, all at the same time—not just in a city but, significantly, across a region,” he said. The past few weeks have allowed his team to assess, for example, how responsible a given city is for its air quality. “We do a lot of modelling for every city of how much pollution is local, and how much is coming from the boundary,” he said. “The big cities always point outwards, saying, ‘All my pollution is coming from outside.’ ” Guttikunda’s models had suggested otherwise, and from the first day of the lockdown evidence of cities’ own contributions became clear. “Now we don’t have to blindly say, ‘Look, you are responsible for seventy per cent of your pollution. Please do something about it,’ ” Guttikunda said. “We have that proof.”

70%..

So, should cars simply be banned in cities. I personally think so but then again I am but an atom in the great mind that is the NSG collective.

What think ye
Last edited by Bombadil on Wed May 06, 2020 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

User avatar
Albrenia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12595
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Wed May 06, 2020 2:10 am

I wouldn't ban them, no. Although strongly encouraging other methods of transport is ok by me. Some cities are titanic, and not everyone has the ability to realistically replace vehicular transport with bicycles and the like.

Reliable and effective public transport, finding cleaner methods of transport and the like are all extremely positive moves to make though, even if one does not ban fossil fuel vehicles.

User avatar
Bombadil
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13950
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Wed May 06, 2020 2:16 am

Albrenia wrote:I wouldn't ban them, no. Although strongly encouraging other methods of transport is ok by me. Some cities are titanic, and not everyone has the ability to realistically replace vehicular transport with bicycles and the like.

Reliable and effective public transport, finding cleaner methods of transport and the like are all extremely positive moves to make though, even if one does not ban fossil fuel vehicles.


The city of Shenzhen has turned all its busses electric, that can be done - fine with that. However, sure, but still effective public transport removes the need for private vehicles.

Get rid of them, though god knows the howls of protest will be immense.
Last edited by Bombadil on Wed May 06, 2020 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

User avatar
Risottia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53011
Founded: Sep 05, 2006
New York Times Democracy

Postby Risottia » Wed May 06, 2020 2:21 am

Bombadil wrote: effective public transport removes the need for private vehicles.

I think you're forgetting a rather large part of private vehicles. That is privately-owned vehicles used to transport goods, and privately-owned vehicles used by professionals to move their equipment. Do you think a plumber can transport his tools and stuff on a tram?
Statanist through and through.
Evilutionist Atheist Crusadjihadist. "Darwinu Akhbar! Dawkins vult!"
Founder of the NSG Peace Prize Committee.
I'm back.
SUMMER, BLOODY SUMMER!

User avatar
Shanghai industrial complex
Minister
 
Posts: 2325
Founded: Feb 20, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Wed May 06, 2020 2:21 am

If this article had been published not in New Yorkers but in nature, I would have believed that conclusion.I can also think of it as a factory shutdown or because of the wind.It's better to do something really useful, like planting trees in the desert. :eyebrow:
Ancient proverbs full of wisdom from China: Let's save those drowning fish together!
StarCraft players don't need eyes. Let's use duel to bring smile!
Use your fist to beat trickstar deck. We are all good brothers for 50 . My HP is full, how can you secKill me!

User avatar
Shanghai industrial complex
Minister
 
Posts: 2325
Founded: Feb 20, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Wed May 06, 2020 2:24 am

Bombadil wrote:
Albrenia wrote:I wouldn't ban them, no. Although strongly encouraging other methods of transport is ok by me. Some cities are titanic, and not everyone has the ability to realistically replace vehicular transport with bicycles and the like.

Reliable and effective public transport, finding cleaner methods of transport and the like are all extremely positive moves to make though, even if one does not ban fossil fuel vehicles.


The city of Shenzhen has turned all its busses electric, that can be done - fine with that. However, sure, but still effective public transport removes the need for private vehicles.

Get rid of them, though god knows the howls of protest will be immense.


Electric cars are well bought in China. But the effect on air quality is not obvious. Because the electricity is mainly from coal power stations. This fuel causes more air pollution than gasoline.
Ancient proverbs full of wisdom from China: Let's save those drowning fish together!
StarCraft players don't need eyes. Let's use duel to bring smile!
Use your fist to beat trickstar deck. We are all good brothers for 50 . My HP is full, how can you secKill me!

User avatar
Shanghai industrial complex
Minister
 
Posts: 2325
Founded: Feb 20, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Wed May 06, 2020 2:26 am

Risottia wrote:
Bombadil wrote: effective public transport removes the need for private vehicles.

I think you're forgetting a rather large part of private vehicles. That is privately-owned vehicles used to transport goods, and privately-owned vehicles used by professionals to move their equipment. Do you think a plumber can transport his tools and stuff on a tram?

Electric trucks will coming soon.Tesla Semi.
Last edited by Shanghai industrial complex on Wed May 06, 2020 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ancient proverbs full of wisdom from China: Let's save those drowning fish together!
StarCraft players don't need eyes. Let's use duel to bring smile!
Use your fist to beat trickstar deck. We are all good brothers for 50 . My HP is full, how can you secKill me!

User avatar
Bombadil
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13950
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Wed May 06, 2020 2:27 am

Risottia wrote:
Bombadil wrote: effective public transport removes the need for private vehicles.

I think you're forgetting a rather large part of private vehicles. That is privately-owned vehicles used to transport goods, and privately-owned vehicles used by professionals to move their equipment. Do you think a plumber can transport his tools and stuff on a tram?


That's not to dismiss all solutions - public electric vans for subsidised rental or leasing. There's solutions. Also more local services, we have plumbers.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

User avatar
The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 12378
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Wed May 06, 2020 2:29 am

I think it has to be a gradual process, that begins by properly investing in the public transport to all areas (some public transport systems are especially poor, with irregular services, and suburb- and country-to-city routes that run so rarely that people living outside the centre rely on private transport to commute). Then more central areas of cities could feasibly (as has already happened in some places) be made accessible only to pedestrians, taxis and public transport between set hours.

As the public transport system improves, this could be expanded to whole city centres. But I would personally keep any such restrictions to daylight hours only, as emergencies can occur at night that require urgent transport (rushing a pregnant partner to hospital at three in the morning, someone has appendicitis and there is a queue for ambulances), and exempt cars showing a disabled badge (better busses and trains will not remove the necessity for some people to have a car that can take them as near to their destination as possible, not to mention that public transport generally has very few spaces for disabled passengers).

My personal preference, though, is for the public transport system to be improved to the point that people generally abandon cars voluntarily (except for vital uses).

Bombadil wrote:
Risottia wrote:I think you're forgetting a rather large part of private vehicles. That is privately-owned vehicles used to transport goods, and privately-owned vehicles used by professionals to move their equipment. Do you think a plumber can transport his tools and stuff on a tram?


That's not to dismiss all solutions - public electric vans for subsidised rental or leasing. There's solutions. Also more local services, we have plumbers.

Renting anything frequently costs more over time than buying, though.

And those plumbers have to heft some pretty hefty parts and equipment. They do need a vehicle.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Wed May 06, 2020 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

My nation does not represent my beliefs or politics.

User avatar
An Alan Smithee Nation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5750
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Wed May 06, 2020 2:43 am

I am really enjoying the lack of traffic in my city because of the Covid-19 lockdown. Less traffic is a massive improvement in my quality of life - lower pollution, fewer allergy problems, less noise, it's safer going out running.
Everything is intertwinkled

User avatar
Risottia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53011
Founded: Sep 05, 2006
New York Times Democracy

Postby Risottia » Wed May 06, 2020 2:43 am

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
Risottia wrote:I think you're forgetting a rather large part of private vehicles. That is privately-owned vehicles used to transport goods, and privately-owned vehicles used by professionals to move their equipment. Do you think a plumber can transport his tools and stuff on a tram?

Electric trucks will coming soon.Tesla Semi.

:rofl:

No wait. You're serious.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

1.Electric trucks are STILL private vehicles on rubber tyres. They just remove the need for combustion exhausts to be produced on the spot, but still they can't address other problems like congestion, parking space, pollution from tyre-asphalt friction, etc. Not a bad idea but not exactly revolutionary.
2.Tesla Semi? That is a concept by "I can't really keep my promise to produce all those vehicles" Tesla? Trolleytrucks are much more likely. And electrics LCVs like the Fiat Ducato are already a thing.
Statanist through and through.
Evilutionist Atheist Crusadjihadist. "Darwinu Akhbar! Dawkins vult!"
Founder of the NSG Peace Prize Committee.
I'm back.
SUMMER, BLOODY SUMMER!

User avatar
Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31610
Founded: Antiquity
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cannot think of a name » Wed May 06, 2020 2:45 am

Bombadil wrote:
Albrenia wrote:I wouldn't ban them, no. Although strongly encouraging other methods of transport is ok by me. Some cities are titanic, and not everyone has the ability to realistically replace vehicular transport with bicycles and the like.

Reliable and effective public transport, finding cleaner methods of transport and the like are all extremely positive moves to make though, even if one does not ban fossil fuel vehicles.


The city of Shenzhen has turned all its busses electric, that can be done - fine with that. However, sure, but still effective public transport removes the need for private vehicles.

Get rid of them, though god knows the howls of protest will be immense.

I'm sort of into this except there are logistical problems I've never really solved.

I worked a lot of production which is personal vehicle heavy. For just one shitty little reality show we'll use a minimum of 3 vans. There's a talent van, production van, and one for gear. Then on location one or two of these vans could be in constant motion gathering supplies, making drop offs, going off ahead of the team to the next location, whatever. We just couldn't do the shoots if we had to use public transportation. As it is we often have to get special permission to get around standard parking laws. And that's a small shoot, on larger ones there could be a dozen trucks including 10 ton grip trucks.

For a full on production like a TV show or feature film a whole fleet of vehicles will be employed with their own department responsible for moving them. Again, no way to do that without the trucks.

Of course, film production while a big part of a lot of cities' economies is not so big that it has to be the one thing that holds back progress, but we're not the only ones that require heavy or specific transportation. With deliveries I imagine you could create corridors for commercial vehicles to make deliveries to shops and such. Maybe even 'depots' where larger overland truck loads are broken down to their smaller payloads for local delivery vehicles.

But things like tool and work trucks, construction...I'm sure there are other industries like production that are vehicle heavy.

To truly move from a individual vehicle based city to a public transportation/walkable city requires a pretty big structural change, not just emptying the streets and adding more buses. Though if that could somehow work then the logistical problem for exceptions is a little easier, but I can't help but feel that more and more exceptions will be made until we've created individual transportation as a privilege that ends up disadvantaging public transportation again.

Even though I'm a diehard car guy, driving in a city is not my favorite thing in the world to do and if cities had a more robust transportation infrastructure they'd be both cleaner and easier to deal with. Things like shopping without ones own car are tricky but probably can be worked out. When I drive my van to the store I'm able to get a lot more shit than if I have to carry that crap onto a crowded bus.

I honestly dream of the day when all the Corolla and Camry owners get their dream of not needing a fucking car and the roads outside the cities are more or less empty for the people who enjoy driving. I like cars but I support everyone who doesn't want to need one. I think we both benefit in the end.

Though the electric car is coming, but will take decades to outnumber the dino burners. Before Covid, VW was on track to produce 1 million EVs by 2023. Their original target was 2025. They're not the only ones, the big companies are stepping in hard on the electric car, it's not going to be just Teslas and city cars in the next few years. At that point it's a lot easier to clean up power creation than a bunch of individual generators running around.

I also do wonder if it can be done in cities that are already built or if new developments like the carless city I can't remember the name of at the moment are the way to start that ball rolling.
Everything for the cat.

User avatar
Risottia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53011
Founded: Sep 05, 2006
New York Times Democracy

Postby Risottia » Wed May 06, 2020 2:48 am

Bombadil wrote:Also more local services, we have plumbers.

Yesss... I suppose your average plumber can move the components for the heating plant of a residential tower on feet.
The need for small, unplanned vehicular mobility isn't going away. We can reduce it, but not eliminate it.
Statanist through and through.
Evilutionist Atheist Crusadjihadist. "Darwinu Akhbar! Dawkins vult!"
Founder of the NSG Peace Prize Committee.
I'm back.
SUMMER, BLOODY SUMMER!

User avatar
The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 12378
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Wed May 06, 2020 2:51 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:I am really enjoying the lack of traffic in my city because of the Covid-19 lockdown. Less traffic is a massive improvement in my quality of life - lower pollution, fewer allergy problems, less noise, it's safer going out running.

Actually, my allergies have been a lot better this year. Could well be to do with there being a lot less traffic around.

I definitely agree that less traffic would be beneficial for the environment and for us.

I just think it should be done by incentivising people to change to a practical, better alternative where possible (which first involves making public transport a practical and better alternative, through efficiency, low cost to the consumer, cleanliness etc.), while not penalising the percentage of people who genuinely do need their own vehicle.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Wed May 06, 2020 2:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

My nation does not represent my beliefs or politics.

User avatar
Esternial
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 52406
Founded: May 09, 2009
Democratic Socialists

Postby Esternial » Wed May 06, 2020 2:53 am

My city (Ghent, Belgium) has turned more and more areas of the city centre into car-free zones, only allowing cars with a particular permit to enter. There's nothing stopping you from entering these zones, but there are cameras at every entrance & exit to record your license plate and send you a fine. I don't know if you can appeal these fines in the case of an emergency or another valid reason. It makes sense though, since those areas are typically pedestrian-heavy with tight, often cobblestone roads.

Surrounding those zones is also a low-emission zone, forbidding cars that pollute more (don't know their metric or how they enforce it) from entering the inner city & approaching the city centre. This is the area inside the "inner ring" around the city and is densely populated, so they try to ward off vehicles from this area as much as possible.

I don't know how much it helped against pollution, but it has made the city centre a lot more pleasant & safer to walk through.

User avatar
Risottia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53011
Founded: Sep 05, 2006
New York Times Democracy

Postby Risottia » Wed May 06, 2020 3:00 am

Esternial wrote:My city (Ghent, Belgium) has turned more and more areas of the city centre into car-free zones, only allowing cars with a particular permit to enter. There's nothing stopping you from entering these zones, but there are cameras at every entrance & exit to record your license plate and send you a fine. I don't know if you can appeal these fines in the case of an emergency or another valid reason..

In Milan you can. For example, if you were taking someone else to an ER within the limited-access zones.
Statanist through and through.
Evilutionist Atheist Crusadjihadist. "Darwinu Akhbar! Dawkins vult!"
Founder of the NSG Peace Prize Committee.
I'm back.
SUMMER, BLOODY SUMMER!

User avatar
Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31610
Founded: Antiquity
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cannot think of a name » Wed May 06, 2020 3:05 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:I am really enjoying the lack of traffic in my city because of the Covid-19 lockdown. Less traffic is a massive improvement in my quality of life - lower pollution, fewer allergy problems, less noise, it's safer going out running.

Actually, my allergies have been a lot better this year. Could well be to do with there being a lot less traffic around.

I definitely agree that less traffic would be beneficial for the environment and for us.

I just think it should be done by incentivising people to change to a practical, better alternative where possible (through efficiency, low cost to the consumer, cleanliness etc.), while not penalising the percentage of people who genuinely do need their own vehicle.

Like most things, gradual and incremental is going to be the key.

The end of COVID is going to have a lot of companies looking at the financial realities of things like office space. There are a lot of places that could come to the conclusion that making people come into work is a waste of resources for both the employee and the employer. It won't be massive, but it might be a dent. Let's make up a number, like a 1-5% decrease in traffic.

Right now EVs are 2% of all cars sold. More EVs and more affordable EVs are coming including EVs meant for commercial use. Bollinger has a commercial truck platform and they are offering their 'skateboard' by itself to put whatever body on it. Rivian and Lordstown also have truck platforms with investments from Ford and GM respectively with both supplying tech to the larger companies. Ford's upcoming electric F150 will be built around Rivian tech.

Electrics could move up to maybe 10% in the next five to ten years. Combine that with the other bullshit number (the 2% electric car sales is the only percentage not pulled from my ass) and maybe we've cut things down by 15% within a decade, which is a pretty good start. If city planners and investors were to match that with investments in infrastructure that improved public transportation or if things like the Nuro autonomous delivery vehicle that's being tested in the South Bay in California right now could bring that number up, especially of passenger models make it through testing.

I don't know what the tipping point is, where you've cut 15%, then 25%, at what point does it then become advantageous to start restructuring the city towards limited vehicle use.
Everything for the cat.

User avatar
Prozitia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 103
Founded: Oct 28, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Prozitia » Wed May 06, 2020 3:15 am

Albrenia wrote:I wouldn't ban them, no. Although strongly encouraging other methods of transport is ok by me. Some cities are titanic, and not everyone has the ability to realistically replace vehicular transport with bicycles and the like.

Reliable and effective public transport, finding cleaner methods of transport and the like are all extremely positive moves to make though, even if one does not ban fossil fuel vehicles.

Prozitia follows the same policy.
POSSUMUS!

User avatar
Shanghai industrial complex
Minister
 
Posts: 2325
Founded: Feb 20, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Wed May 06, 2020 3:15 am

Risottia wrote:
Shanghai industrial complex wrote:Electric trucks will coming soon.Tesla Semi.

:rofl:

No wait. You're serious.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

1.Electric trucks are STILL private vehicles on rubber tyres. They just remove the need for combustion exhausts to be produced on the spot, but still they can't address other problems like congestion, parking space, pollution from tyre-asphalt friction, etc. Not a bad idea but not exactly revolutionary.
2.Tesla Semi? That is a concept by "I can't really keep my promise to produce all those vehicles" Tesla? Trolleytrucks are much more likely. And electrics LCVs like the Fiat Ducato are already a thing.



Emmm...How about this?BYD T10.Made by Tesla's main competitor in China, BYD, is a major battery manufacturer.Tesla has to use autopilot on semi.Autopilot technology has a long way to go

Volume 10.6m3, with aluminum alloy top cover sealing system.It adopts the lithium iron phosphate power battery. The whole vehicle has two sets of batteries, with a total power of 435kwh. The vehicle has a endurance of more than 280km under full load condition.
Image
Image
Last edited by Shanghai industrial complex on Wed May 06, 2020 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ancient proverbs full of wisdom from China: Let's save those drowning fish together!
StarCraft players don't need eyes. Let's use duel to bring smile!
Use your fist to beat trickstar deck. We are all good brothers for 50 . My HP is full, how can you secKill me!

User avatar
Shanghai industrial complex
Minister
 
Posts: 2325
Founded: Feb 20, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Wed May 06, 2020 3:20 am

Risottia wrote:
Shanghai industrial complex wrote:Electric trucks will coming soon.Tesla Semi.

:rofl:

No wait. You're serious.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

1.Electric trucks are STILL private vehicles on rubber tyres. They just remove the need for combustion exhausts to be produced on the spot, but still they can't address other problems like congestion, parking space, pollution from tyre-asphalt friction, etc. Not a bad idea but not exactly revolutionary.
2.Tesla Semi? That is a concept by "I can't really keep my promise to produce all those vehicles" Tesla? Trolleytrucks are much more likely. And electrics LCVs like the Fiat Ducato are already a thing.


And this ,Vera.
Image
Ancient proverbs full of wisdom from China: Let's save those drowning fish together!
StarCraft players don't need eyes. Let's use duel to bring smile!
Use your fist to beat trickstar deck. We are all good brothers for 50 . My HP is full, how can you secKill me!

User avatar
Bombadil
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13950
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Wed May 06, 2020 3:20 am

Esternial wrote:My city (Ghent, Belgium) has turned more and more areas of the city centre into car-free zones, only allowing cars with a particular permit to enter. There's nothing stopping you from entering these zones, but there are cameras at every entrance & exit to record your license plate and send you a fine. I don't know if you can appeal these fines in the case of an emergency or another valid reason. It makes sense though, since those areas are typically pedestrian-heavy with tight, often cobblestone roads.

Surrounding those zones is also a low-emission zone, forbidding cars that pollute more (don't know their metric or how they enforce it) from entering the inner city & approaching the city centre. This is the area inside the "inner ring" around the city and is densely populated, so they try to ward off vehicles from this area as much as possible.

I don't know how much it helped against pollution, but it has made the city centre a lot more pleasant & safer to walk through.


Lovely city, and I thoroughly enjoyed walking around it a couple of Christmas's ago. I think pollution is indeed just one factor, general noise pollution is another I mentioned. Especially in HK, with the number of tall buildings, it creates an echo chamber of bus noises, horns and other such irritations. It's why I moved out to somewhere a whole lot quieter.

Another thing I enjoy here is just kids racing around freely on bicycles, there's no fear of their getting hit by cars. It allows for a degree of greater freedom and, as you note, general safety.

Risottia wrote:
Bombadil wrote:Also more local services, we have plumbers.

Yesss... I suppose your average plumber can move the components for the heating plant of a residential tower on feet.
The need for small, unplanned vehicular mobility isn't going away. We can reduce it, but not eliminate it.


Dunno, we have plumbing and electricity and etc., with all the paraphernalia required, to be fair i don't know how it was done. There are a few electric forklift type vehicles you find in factories mostly at the shipping yard.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

User avatar
-Astoria
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1970
Founded: Mar 14, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby -Astoria » Wed May 06, 2020 3:25 am

Prozitia wrote:
Albrenia wrote:I wouldn't ban them, no. Although strongly encouraging other methods of transport is ok by me. Some cities are titanic, and not everyone has the ability to realistically replace vehicular transport with bicycles and the like.

Reliable and effective public transport, finding cleaner methods of transport and the like are all extremely positive moves to make though, even if one does not ban fossil fuel vehicles.

Prozitia follows the same policy.

OOC, not IC.
Unless you have a viable alternative [especially for the likes of the third world], absolutely not.

Republic of Astoria | Tarain Asdair | Vasnin Astoir
Updates! | Constitution | Bill of Rights | Anthem | Lyrics | Embassy | FAQ | NS stats unused
Jul 21, 2020
✉ ABC News: Forests doing well, but climate change putting pressure on it | #musicparade: listeners choose their favourites | Refugee sews 1000 masks for his new hometown | NCP calls for aid package for companies | New evidence of large temples in Onsteyl | Weather: Footscray ☁ 14°C | Altas ☁ 16° | Esterpine ☁ 15° |  Naltgybal ☂⛆ 13° | Ceirtryn ☀ 17° | Bynscel ☁ 21° | Lyteel  ☁ 13°

A 7 civ | 9th in NSFB#1! | 10/10 by DGES | Much hope: yes.
Low-effort responses since 15/5/20: 67½ | Good responses since 20/7/20: 5

mit zuckerguß


User avatar
An Alan Smithee Nation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5750
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Wed May 06, 2020 3:26 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:I am really enjoying the lack of traffic in my city because of the Covid-19 lockdown. Less traffic is a massive improvement in my quality of life - lower pollution, fewer allergy problems, less noise, it's safer going out running.

Actually, my allergies have been a lot better this year. Could well be to do with there being a lot less traffic around.

I definitely agree that less traffic would be beneficial for the environment and for us.

I just think it should be done by incentivising people to change to a practical, better alternative where possible (which first involves making public transport a practical and better alternative, through efficiency, low cost to the consumer, cleanliness etc.), while not penalising the percentage of people who genuinely do need their own vehicle.


Yeah I agree with you and CTOAN. It is something to aim for, but is going to be from lots of different measures coming together:

Electric vehicles
Electricity generated by nuclear power stations, and renewables
Proper infrastructure for bicycles and scooters
Drone deliveries
Good public transport maybe including autonomous electric vehicles you can hail to take you where you want to go

I always prefer carrots to incentivise people towards a good goal rather than sticks to force them, though sticks are sometimes needed to push us over our reluctance to change ingrained habits.
Everything is intertwinkled

User avatar
Lost Memories
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1478
Founded: Nov 29, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Lost Memories » Wed May 06, 2020 3:39 am

Moving away from pollution, an other side of the car talk is about space, how much space do cars occupy, and how much more space would open if there weren't cars.
Most roads would be very wide if there weren't cars parked on the sides, nor cars running in the middle.
What that space could be used for i dunno, but it's something to also keep in mind when talking about pros and cons of widespread car usage.
http://www.politicaltest.net/test/result/222881/

ag

"The whole is something else than the sum of its parts" -Kurt Koffka

A fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine, but was unable to.
As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet!'
As such are people who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain.
-The Fox and the Grapes

"Dictionaries don't decide what words mean. Prescriptivism is the ultimate form of elitism." -United Muscovite Nations
or subtle illiteracy, or lazy sidetracking. Just fucking follow the context. And ask when i doubt.

Not-asimov

We're all a bit stupid and ignorant, just be humble about it.

User avatar
Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31610
Founded: Antiquity
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cannot think of a name » Wed May 06, 2020 3:41 am

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
Risottia wrote: :rofl:

No wait. You're serious.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

1.Electric trucks are STILL private vehicles on rubber tyres. They just remove the need for combustion exhausts to be produced on the spot, but still they can't address other problems like congestion, parking space, pollution from tyre-asphalt friction, etc. Not a bad idea but not exactly revolutionary.
2.Tesla Semi? That is a concept by "I can't really keep my promise to produce all those vehicles" Tesla? Trolleytrucks are much more likely. And electrics LCVs like the Fiat Ducato are already a thing.


And this ,Vera.
Image

There's also a company with the not at all 'fuck you' name of Nikola that already has two semis and another company delivered 20 tons of butter 2800 miles autonomously.

Which all is to say, if for some reason you think Tesla doesn't make cars (they recently made their 1 millionth car and have sold enough cars to no longer be eligible for federal credits and have released every car they've introduced with the...ugh...Cybertruck and new Roadster forthcoming...but, whatever. People get reflexive when Tesla is mentioned for whatever reason.) GOOD NEWS! Tesla did what it set out to do, launched the EV revolution. There are several companies with EV transport trucks ready for production. Just like passenger cars you'll see incremental replacement. In a few years 2% of semis will be electric, then more and so on. UPS partnered with another EV maker and bought a large number (I can't remember exactly and don't feel like looking it up) of EV delivery trucks. Amazon did the same thing with the goal of moving their 'last mile' deliveries to EVs.

These commercial applications will be huge in the transition.
Everything for the cat.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: -SARS-, Austria-Bohemia-Hungary, Fahran, Greed and Death, Heloin, Infected Mushroom, Koem Kab, Kohr, Luminesa, Nilokeras, Nobel Hobos 2, Saiwania, Stegosaurus Territory, The Greater Ohio Valley, The Two Jerseys, Washington Resistance Army

Advertisement

Remove ads