Open Season: "Vigilantes" Shoot Black Jogger in Georgia

[Spirit of Hope]

Under Georgia law you can not claim you were acting in self defense if the shooting happened during th commission of a crime. The McMichaels were attempting to illegally detain Arbery. There fore they can not claim self defense.

Under Georgia law you can only illegally detain someone if you are an actual police officer, and kidnapping requires you to actually seize them bodily for transport elsewhere. So no. You're just wrong.

You very much can commit false imprisonment in georgia without being a police officer.

[The Alma Mater]

The first video that he linked that undermined all of his extraordinary claims shows footage of earlier trespasses while emphasizing that it isn't clear that it's Ahmaud. About here.
Looks like guy with tattoos on his arm, but it's not exactly high resolution video.

All the current findings so far pointed to Ahmaud, unless there's another person scouting the neighborhood and found. My suspicions still stands that he might not be as innocent as he seems.

As a sidenote - assume it is him. Do we know for certain he was not simply the owner or prospective buyer of said property ?

[Kernen]

So? No conceivable history between them permits the killers to detain Arbery.

Yeah, I don't think they're planning on locking him away in their own home. The first thing to catching a thief would be to stop him in his track and then proceeding to alert law enforcement, and since that clearly not happened and the man that was shot was yanking the shooter's weapon, I wouldn't readily dismiss this as another racially charged killing.

Just shooting him.

Grabbing at an assailant's weapon is itself a reasonableact of self defense. The introduction of the weapon was itself the escalation to physical violence. That don't fly under self defense at the common law, and liikely not by statute.

[Arkhane]

Yeah, I don't think they're planning on locking him away in their own home. The first thing to catching a thief would be to stop him in his track and then proceeding to alert law enforcement, and since that clearly not happened and the man that was shot was yanking the shooter's weapon, I wouldn't readily dismiss this as another racially charged killing.

They had no legal authority to stop him in his tracks, i.e. detain him. They had no knowledge of him committing any crimes, their mere suspicion that he might have been involved in some crime at some point is not sufficient, especially since these burglaries they suspected Arbery of do not appear to have actually happened.

As I said before, you do not need any go signal from law enforcement if you believe there is a certain danger and you have the means to avoid it or stop someone. The shooter had a history of police training, he knows that in a fight to wrestle a gun, you do not allow your attacker a chance to get the upper hand and it is your life vs his that's being determined.

[Necroghastia]

Your flailing is adorable.

For me to flail, there needs to be actual evidence that disproves me first.

Pretty sure you need to actually provide evidence of your own first.

[Arkhane]

All the current findings so far pointed to Ahmaud, unless there's another person scouting the neighborhood and found. My suspicions still stands that he might not be as innocent as he seems.

As a sidenote - assume it is him. Do we know for certain he was not simply the owner or prospective buyer of said property ?

If he was a complete and total stranger, it would have made me reconsider.

[Cannot think of a name]

Your flailing is adorable.

For me to flail, there needs to be actual evidence that disproves me first.

None of your initial claims were supported, your own sources undermined them. It was like ten minutes ago and they're all still up. Surely you can remember that happening.

[The Alma Mater]

As a sidenote - assume it is him. Do we know for certain he was not simply the owner or prospective buyer of said property ?

If he was a complete and total stranger, it would have made me reconsider.

Understandable, but not my question.

Do we actually know if our victim and the place he may have been trespassing were related in a way ? Because if he was the new owner, we have two people who (metaphorically) chased someone off his own property and then killed him.

[Kernen]

They had no legal authority to stop him in his tracks, i.e. detain him. They had no knowledge of him committing any crimes, their mere suspicion that he might have been involved in some crime at some point is not sufficient, especially since these burglaries they suspected Arbery of do not appear to have actually happened.

As I said before, you do not need any go signal from law enforcement if you believe there is a certain danger and you have the means to avoid it or stop someone. The shooter had a history of police training, he knows that in a fight to wrestle a gun, you do not allow your attacker a chance to get the upper hand and it is your life vs his that's being determined.

Irrelevant, since he had no business attempting to stop him.

[Ifreann]

They had no legal authority to stop him in his tracks, i.e. detain him. They had no knowledge of him committing any crimes, their mere suspicion that he might have been involved in some crime at some point is not sufficient, especially since these burglaries they suspected Arbery of do not appear to have actually happened.

As I said before, you do not need any go signal from law enforcement if you believe there is a certain danger and you have the means to avoid it or stop someone.

And you are wrong. Georgia law does not permit citizens arrests in situations like this, because there was no danger to anyone, there was no knowledge that a crime had been committed. When the killers shouted at Arbery to stop, he was fully within his rights to run the fuck away. When they cornered him, he was fully within his rights to use force to defend himself.

The shooter had a history of police training, he knows that in a fight to wrestle a gun, you do not allow your attacker a chance to get the upper hand and it is your life vs his that's being determined.

Arbery was not an attacker, he was a victim trying to defend himself against multiple armed assailants.

[Arkhane]

For me to flail, there needs to be actual evidence that disproves me first.

Pretty sure you need to actually provide evidence of your own first.

I have shown the videos, or what I could find again at least, and have deduced that it's not a singular incident and the man that got shot in the altercation was no mere random passerby with no history with the shooters. Racial lynchings and initiation patterns do not involve the person recording the incident openly leaking it to the public that the people he associated with were the one's responsible for the deaths.

[Ifreann]

Pretty sure you need to actually provide evidence of your own first.

I have shown the videos, or what I could find again at least, and have deduced that it's not a singular incident and the man that got shot in the altercation was no mere random passerby with no history with the shooters. Racial lynchings and initiation patterns do not involve the person recording the incident openly leaking it to the public that the people he associated with were the one's responsible for the deaths.

The video was reportedly leaked by the attorney of the killers in a hilariously inept attempt to clear their names.

[Kernen]

Pretty sure you need to actually provide evidence of your own first.

I have shown the videos, or what I could find again at least, and have deduced that it's not a singular incident and the man that got shot in the altercation was no mere random passerby with no history with the shooters. Racial lynchings and initiation patterns do not involve the person recording the incident openly leaking it to the public that the people he associated with were the one's responsible for the deaths.

people share incriminating info all the time. That is not itself evidence of innocence.

[The Emerald Legion]

Under Georgia law you can only illegally detain someone if you are an actual police officer, and kidnapping requires you to actually seize them bodily for transport elsewhere. So no. You're just wrong.

You very much can commit false imprisonment in georgia without being a police officer.

.... For fucks sake, why are there two laws with almost the exact same goddamn name?

[Arkhane]

As I said before, you do not need any go signal from law enforcement if you believe there is a certain danger and you have the means to avoid it or stop someone.

And you are wrong. Georgia law does not permit citizens arrests in situations like this, because there was no danger to anyone, there was no knowledge that a crime had been committed. When the killers shouted at Arbery to stop, he was fully within his rights to run the fuck away. When they cornered him, he was fully within his rights to use force to defend himself.

The shooter had a history of police training, he knows that in a fight to wrestle a gun, you do not allow your attacker a chance to get the upper hand and it is your life vs his that's being determined.

Arbery was not an attacker, he was a victim trying to defend himself against multiple armed assailants.

A person trying to yank your weapon away is grounds for self defense. He wasn't cornered as far as I can see, he intentionally went for and tried to disarm him.

[Necroghastia]

Pretty sure you need to actually provide evidence of your own first.

I have shown the videos, or what I could find again at least, and have deduced that it's not a singular incident and the man that got shot in the altercation was no mere random passerby with no history with the shooters. Racial lynchings and initiation patterns do not involve the person recording the incident openly leaking it to the public that the people he associated with were the one's responsible for the deaths.

Deduced from what? And we already know that the person who leaked it was a dipshit that thought it would help exonerate the murderers.

[Arkhane]

I have shown the videos, or what I could find again at least, and have deduced that it's not a singular incident and the man that got shot in the altercation was no mere random passerby with no history with the shooters. Racial lynchings and initiation patterns do not involve the person recording the incident openly leaking it to the public that the people he associated with were the one's responsible for the deaths.

The video was reportedly leaked by the attorney of the killers in a hilariously inept attempt to clear their names.

It was leaked to show the truth, not to exonerate or condemn them in anyway, said the attorney.

[Necroghastia]

And you are wrong. Georgia law does not permit citizens arrests in situations like this, because there was no danger to anyone, there was no knowledge that a crime had been committed. When the killers shouted at Arbery to stop, he was fully within his rights to run the fuck away. When they cornered him, he was fully within his rights to use force to defend himself.


Arbery was not an attacker, he was a victim trying to defend himself against multiple armed assailants.

A person trying to yank your weapon away is grounds for self defense. He wasn't cornered as far as I can see, he intentionally went for and tried to disarm him.

Two people rolling up on you with weapons is a far better ground for self defense.

[Cannot think of a name]

And you are wrong. Georgia law does not permit citizens arrests in situations like this, because there was no danger to anyone, there was no knowledge that a crime had been committed. When the killers shouted at Arbery to stop, he was fully within his rights to run the fuck away. When they cornered him, he was fully within his rights to use force to defend himself.


Arbery was not an attacker, he was a victim trying to defend himself against multiple armed assailants.

A person trying to yank your weapon away is grounds for self defense. He wasn't cornered as far as I can see, he intentionally went for and tried to disarm him.

Arbery changed direction to avoid the murderer and the murderer moved to block him at which point Arbery had every reason to fear for his life.

[Kernen]

And you are wrong. Georgia law does not permit citizens arrests in situations like this, because there was no danger to anyone, there was no knowledge that a crime had been committed. When the killers shouted at Arbery to stop, he was fully within his rights to run the fuck away. When they cornered him, he was fully within his rights to use force to defend himself.


Arbery was not an attacker, he was a victim trying to defend himself against multiple armed assailants.

A person trying to yank your weapon away is grounds for self defense. He wasn't cornered as far as I can see, he intentionally went for and tried to disarm him.

He was cut off and had a weapon pointed at him. Trust me, that would be sufficient if Arbery was the shooter.

The shooter can't effectively claim self defense if he was the reason the force escalated to lethal force.

[Arkhane]

A person trying to yank your weapon away is grounds for self defense. He wasn't cornered as far as I can see, he intentionally went for and tried to disarm him.

Two people rolling up on you with weapons is a far better ground for self defense.

I didn't see any shooting until the struggle for the gun began. The man had police training. If his intention was to shoot him, he wouldn't get so close and would have started firing from a safe distance.

[Kernen]

Two people rolling up on you with weapons is a far better ground for self defense.

I didn't see any shooting until the struggle for the gun began. The man had police training. If his intention was to shoot him, he wouldn't get so close and would have started firing from a safe distance.

Pointing the gun is itself escalation of force. Drawing the gun is. In some places, touching the gun in the holster is sufficient.

[Ifreann]

You very much can commit false imprisonment in georgia without being a police officer.

.... For fucks sake, why are there two laws with almost the exact same goddamn name?

The law, as they say, is a ass.

---

And you are wrong. Georgia law does not permit citizens arrests in situations like this, because there was no danger to anyone, there was no knowledge that a crime had been committed. When the killers shouted at Arbery to stop, he was fully within his rights to run the fuck away. When they cornered him, he was fully within his rights to use force to defend himself.


Arbery was not an attacker, he was a victim trying to defend himself against multiple armed assailants.

A person trying to yank your weapon away is grounds for self defense. He wasn't cornered as far as I can see, he intentionally went for and tried to disarm him.

People chasing you down and trying to stop you and brandishing weapons to intimidate you into complying with their orders, when they have no legal authority to stop you, is grounds to defend yourself against them, such as by trying to disarm one of them.

[Necroghastia]

Two people rolling up on you with weapons is a far better ground for self defense.

I didn't see any shooting until the struggle for the gun began. The man had police training. If his intention was to shoot him, he wouldn't get so close and would have started firing from a safe distance.

The struggle that was started in self-defense, you mean?

[Spirit of Hope]

Two people rolling up on you with weapons is a far better ground for self defense.

I didn't see any shooting until the struggle for the gun began. The man had police training. If his intention was to shoot him, he wouldn't get so close and would have started firing from a safe distance.

Again, you can't claim self defens if the shooting was in commission of a crime. They were committing false imprisonment, ergo they cannot claim self defense.