Open Season: "Vigilantes" Shoot Black Jogger in Georgia

[Qabea]

This is horrific and disgusting. These 'vigilantes' should be jailed

They got arrested and have a court date. I reckon how much their bail will be though.

[Spirit of Hope]

Also, none of this would have been known to the shooters, would it? So I don't see how it excuses chasing him down even if he was an arsehole with an anger problem.

That'd be some pretty impressive Sherlock Holmes shit for them to get all of that from him jogging by their house, dude.

What points do you think you're making by ignoring the fact it's been established he had a criminal history, brought weapons to school, and was charged with a felony for violence in obstructing a peace officer?

What does any of this have to do with current events? Something that happened 7 years ago doesn't mean he is violent now.

The point is he attacked them, and they were acting within the boundaries of the law in attempting a citizen's arrest.

You actually have to witness a crime to conduct a citizens arrest, strangely in their statements to the police, they never said they saw Arbery commit a crime.

Neither of them had criminal histories.

When establishing the credibility and mentality of the parties involved, their histories are relevant whether you like them or not.

One of them had only recently retired as an investigator and officer for the local police force, described as having a “a culture of cronyism,” where the local police chief would be indited days later for covering for his own polices misconduct, and the police force had lost their state accreditation previously.

If you are going to assume Arbery is a violent criminal based on a non violent crime from 7 years ago, can I assume the McMichael's were involved in corrupt police practices?

[Thermodolia]

Also, none of this would have been known to the shooters, would it? So I don't see how it excuses chasing him down even if he was an arsehole with an anger problem.

That'd be some pretty impressive Sherlock Holmes shit for them to get all of that from him jogging by their house, dude.

What points do you think you're making by ignoring the fact it's been established he had a criminal history, brought weapons to school, and was charged with a felony for violence in obstructing a peace officer?

I’m sure you have proof of this claimed record?

The point is he attacked them, and they were acting within the boundaries of the law in attempting a citizen's arrest. Neither of them had criminal histories

No they where not. Georgia law is very clear that they have to witness the crime being committed and they have to say this is a citizen arrest or you are under arrest.

They did neither so they are very much in the wrong

When establishing the credibility and mentality of the parties involved, their histories are relevant whether you like them or not.

Just so long as you don’t ya know fake em.

This always happens when a black man gets killed. Time to start digging up dirt on him going all the way back to when he was just 10 years old, cause we don't want people to feel sorry for him now do we?

Actually it happens to parties involved in such cases regardless of their race. If he has a violent history, and the story is in question, it is relevant to understanding what may have transpired.

And he was 19 when he brought the gun to school and violently obstructed a peace officer. Though given his decision-making capabilities, he probably was mentally about 10. Oh well!

Really? I’m sure you have evidence of this

[Rojava Free State]

Also, none of this would have been known to the shooters, would it? So I don't see how it excuses chasing him down even if he was an arsehole with an anger problem.

That'd be some pretty impressive Sherlock Holmes shit for them to get all of that from him jogging by their house, dude.

What points do you think you're making by ignoring the fact it's been established he had a criminal history, brought weapons to school, and was charged with a felony for violence in obstructing a peace officer?

The point is he attacked them, and they were acting within the boundaries of the law in attempting a citizen's arrest. Neither of them had criminal histories.

When establishing the credibility and mentality of the parties involved, their histories are relevant whether you like them or not.

This always happens when a black man gets killed. Time to start digging up dirt on him going all the way back to when he was just 10 years old, cause we don't want people to feel sorry for him now do we?

Actually it happens to parties involved in such cases regardless of their race. If he has a violent history, and the story is in question, it is relevant to understanding what may have transpired.

And he was 19 when he brought the gun to school and violently obstructed a peace officer. Though given his decision-making capabilities, he probably was mentally about 10. Oh well!

Exhibit B of someone insulting the dead because the victim was a black man shot by a cop. You lost all credibility when you started comparing the victim's past to the perps and pretended that that justifies extrajudical murder.

[Bienenhalde]

Not all cops are crooks, but all cops are your enemy.

Maybe they are your enemy if you are a criminal, but I am a law-abiding citizen, thank you very much.

[Rojava Free State]

Not all cops are crooks, but all cops are your enemy.

Maybe they are your enemy if you are a criminal, but I am a law-abiding citizen, thank you very much.

So was Philandro Castile. That really helped him, didn't it?

[Kernen]

Not all cops are crooks, but all cops are your enemy.

Maybe they are your enemy if you are a criminal, but I am a law-abiding citizen, thank you very much.

Right. Innocent people never get arrested or charged.

Police have every incentive to pin a crime on you if they can, and it will never benefit you to speak to a police officer.

[Bienenhalde]

Racists cannot be allowed to own guns.

If I may, on what grounds?

Taking personal freedoms/rights away from people just because you don't like there ideology is a pretty dangerous precedent to be setting overall.

If people are a threat to the life and safety of other people, I don't think they should be allowed to have guns. The right to life is of utmost importance, and I can't fathom why anyone would think that someone's special snowflake obsession with their tools or toys or whatever they are supposed to be should trump that.

[Bienenhalde]

Maybe they are your enemy if you are a criminal, but I am a law-abiding citizen, thank you very much.

So was Philandro Castile. That really helped him, didn't it?

Well, I wouldn't necessarily deny that their are some bad apples, but Kernen did say "all".

[Rojava Free State]

So was Philandro Castile. That really helped him, didn't it?

Well, I wouldn't necessarily deny that their are some bad apples, but Kernen did say "all".

It is at least all police on the same department as a bunch of crooked cops. Why? Because they let this culture continue. They do nothing to stop their crooked compatriots. So while they may not be mean and nasty guys themselves, they sure aren't brave enough to stop the ones who are and hold them accountable.

[Kernen]

So was Philandro Castile. That really helped him, didn't it?

Well, I wouldn't necessarily deny that their are some bad apples, but Kernen did say "all".

They are. They have no incentive to help you and every incentive not to.

[Kernen]

Well, I wouldn't necessarily deny that their are some bad apples, but Kernen did say "all".

It is at least all police on the same department as a bunch of crooked cops. Why? Because they let this culture continue. They do nothing to stop their crooked compatriots. So while they may not be mean and nasty guys themselves, they sure aren't brave enough to stop the ones who are and hold them accountable.

Any officer that stays quiet is aiding the officers who abuse.

[Sodoran Alesia]

Well, I wouldn't necessarily deny that their are some bad apples, but Kernen did say "all".

It is at least all police on the same department as a bunch of crooked cops. Why? Because they let this culture continue. They do nothing to stop their crooked compatriots. So while they may not be mean and nasty guys themselves, they sure aren't brave enough to stop the ones who are and hold them accountable.

"We have investigated ourselves and found that we did nothing wrong"

[Bienenhalde]

Well, I wouldn't necessarily deny that their are some bad apples, but Kernen did say "all".

They are. They have no incentive to help you and every incentive not to.

If that were true, then the police department in question would be in need of massive reform. But I doubt that most police departments in first world countries are that bad.

[Kernen]

They are. They have no incentive to help you and every incentive not to.

If that were true, then the police department in question would be in need of massive reform. But I doubt that most police departments in first world countries are that bad.

All police departments are in need of reform, but that doesn't change my position. The police have an incentive to close cases, and the legal system is biased in the state's favor to the point where police can use helpful honest statements by a person who has not committed a crime to effect an arrest of that person.

[Rojava Free State]

They are. They have no incentive to help you and every incentive not to.

If that were true, then the police department in question would be in need of massive reform. But I doubt that most police departments in first world countries are that bad.

They aren't in most first world countries. They are in America.

[Rojava Free State]

It is at least all police on the same department as a bunch of crooked cops. Why? Because they let this culture continue. They do nothing to stop their crooked compatriots. So while they may not be mean and nasty guys themselves, they sure aren't brave enough to stop the ones who are and hold them accountable.

"We have investigated ourselves and found that we did nothing wrong"

This is why unarmed people get shot by cops. The cops have little to worry about if they kill a few people including people who did nothing wrong.

[Bienenhalde]

If that were true, then the police department in question would be in need of massive reform. But I doubt that most police departments in first world countries are that bad.

All police departments are in need of reform, but that doesn't change my position. The police have an incentive to close cases, and the legal system is biased in the state's favor to the point where police can use helpful honest statements by a person who has not committed a crime to effect an arrest of that person.

And what benefit does the state get from arresting an innocent person?

[Rojava Free State]

All police departments are in need of reform, but that doesn't change my position. The police have an incentive to close cases, and the legal system is biased in the state's favor to the point where police can use helpful honest statements by a person who has not committed a crime to effect an arrest of that person.

And what benefit does the state get from arresting an innocent person?

You ever heard of arrest quotas?

[Kernen]

All police departments are in need of reform, but that doesn't change my position. The police have an incentive to close cases, and the legal system is biased in the state's favor to the point where police can use helpful honest statements by a person who has not committed a crime to effect an arrest of that person.

And what benefit does the state get from arresting an innocent person?

The police have the interest in closing cases. The state has an interest in efficient administration. Innocent people arrested and convicted is the symptom, not the goal.

[Spirit of Hope]

They are. They have no incentive to help you and every incentive not to.

If that were true, then the police department in question would be in need of massive reform. But I doubt that most police departments in first world countries are that bad.

While not all cops are crooks, the police chief for Brunswik was indicted for covering up misconduct by a narcotics unit, the state had previously revoked the department's accreditation, and the county manager said it had “a culture of cronyism.”

[Bienenhalde]

And what benefit does the state get from arresting an innocent person?

You ever heard of arrest quotas?

Okay, but simply meeting a quota would only help police officers or police departments. Arresting innocent people just to meet a quota doesn't actually do anything to help maintain law and order.

[Rojava Free State]

You ever heard of arrest quotas?

Okay, but simply meeting a quota would only help police officers or police departments. Arresting innocent people just to meet a quota doesn't actually do anything to help maintain law and order.

You're assuming that the police really care about maintaining law and order. Alot of these guys take the job in bad faith, because they know they can get away with shit and power trip all they want and no one can stop them.

[Bienenhalde]

And what benefit does the state get from arresting an innocent person?

The police have the interest in closing cases. The state has an interest in efficient administration. Innocent people arrested and convicted is the symptom, not the goal.

Obviously innocent people being arrested is an undesirable side effect, but efficient administration is still a reasonable goal.

[Kernen]

The police have the interest in closing cases. The state has an interest in efficient administration. Innocent people arrested and convicted is the symptom, not the goal.

Obviously innocent people being arrested is an undesirable side effect, but efficient administration is still a reasonable goal.

Not when it perpetuates a system that imprisons the innocent and abuses minorities. Which is why I tell people to never ever speak to the police. It will basically only hurt you.