NATION

PASSWORD

Open Season: "Vigilantes" Shoot Black Jogger in Georgia

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45100
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Open Season: "Vigilantes" Shoot Black Jogger in Georgia

Postby Cannot think of a name » Tue May 05, 2020 7:43 pm

Once Florida provided the precedent of threatening black people then shooting them when they respond, it's open season on Black people in the south and anywhere else bullshit laws like this exist. Here's the story from fucking February that we're just hearing about now because of cell phone video.
Ahmaud Arbery, 25, was running in a Brunswick neighborhood February 23 when a former police officer and his son chased him down, telling officers later that they thought he looked like the suspect in a series of recent break-ins in the area, authorities said.
...
After seeing Arbery jogging, McMichael then alerted his 34-year-old son, Travis, according to the police report.
"Travis, the guy is running down the street, let's go," McMichael said, according to the report.

The two grabbed a shotgun and a pistol and followed Arbery in their truck, police said. Travis McMichael, the driver, followed Arbery and then attempted to cut him off, the report said. Arbery turned around and began running in the opposite direction, the police report said.

They chased Arbery to a nearby intersection where they caught up to him, the report said.

"Stop, stop, we want to talk to you," Gregory McMichael shouted at Arbery, according to the police report.

Travis McMichael then exited truck with the shotgun, the police report said. His father told officers Arbery "violently attacked" his son, the report said, and they struggled over the gun. Travis McMichael fired two shots, the report said, and Arbery fell.

Fuck those fucking pieces of shit who remain free to this day.

This isn't a case of a lawful citizens arrest gone wrong:
Merritt, the family's attorney, told CNN on Sunday, "The decision to rely on the citizen's arrest statute is really a recent invention, prior to that they just simply said it was self-defense." Merritt says now the men are trying to use the law to say they were trying to stop a crime.

"According to that law, you actually have to be observing the crime or be in the immediate knowledge of the crime," Merritt said. "The only thing they have ever said is ... that Ahmaud stopped by a house that was under construction and he looked through the window. We don't know if that happened or not, but even if that did happen that is not a felony that would invoke the citizen's arrest statute that would make this allowable."
...
At best, the men had the authority to follow Arbery and send law enforcement to that location, Merritt said. The 911 calls show the call taker was asking the men what Arbery is doing that was of criminal concern, Merritt said.

"They didn't give any answer for that, they said, 'He's a black man running down our road,'" Merritt said.

Defenders of the men are also pointing to a shoplifting conviction in Arbery's past.
"The reference to ... alleged conduct from high school or shoplifting is absurd and has nothing to do with his murder," Merritt said.

100% about race. Not justice, not fighting crime. Fucking race. And the cold blooded murderer should know better...and does, because there's a reason he's not in jail right now.
There have been no charges against the father and son involved in the incident, former police officer Gregory McMichael and his son Travis. CNN previously reached out to Gregory McMichael for comment, but he said he won't be commenting because he is under investigation.

"This is an ongoing investigation," the Glynn County Police Department said in a statement April 28, adding that it "continues to gather and provide information to the District Attorney's Office that the case has been assigned to."

Two other district attorneys had recused themselves over possible conflicts of interest, one of whom wrote that Travis McMichael acted out of self-defense and their actions fell within Georgia's citizen arrest laws.


Now that cell phone video of the execution of a young man by racist fucks (that I'm not linking to for many reasons) shit is finally moving slowly but likely to get lost in the shuffle of people wanting low wage workers to sacrifice themselves for profits and haircuts and aggressive hornets.
Tom Durden, the district attorney for the Atlantic Judicial Circuit, wrote he expects to present the case to the next available grand jury in Glynn County to consider whether charges are merited for those involved in Arbery's death.

Because of the coronavirus pandemic, courts are currently prohibited from empaneling grand juries.

Durden did not return CNN's calls on Tuesday for comment, but the local branch of the NAACP provided CNN with the document -- labeled as a press release -- which matches a statement Durden gave to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

S. Lee Merritt, an attorney for the Arbery family, said in a statement obtained by CNN that the two men involved in the chase "must be taken into custody pending their indictment."


Vigilante killing of black people in the south is a long, long tradition. But a few years back it was re-codified acceptable when Zimmerman killed a man in 'defense' after stalking him.

This isn't the 'new normal', it's the 'old normal' we decided to do nothing about.

Post your predictions of the complete miscarriage of justice that will likely follow. Whose going to be the first to pose the theory that a high school shoplifting incident is a shootable offense years later while jogging. Or please tell me how a black man alone in the south is supposed to just comply to threatening men with guns and no authority as if that makes even kind of sense.

Let the apologism begin.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

User avatar
Albrenia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16619
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Albrenia » Tue May 05, 2020 7:48 pm

Isn't that just straight out murder?

User avatar
Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45100
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Tue May 05, 2020 7:49 pm

Albrenia wrote:Isn't that just straight out murder?

Yes.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

User avatar
Greed and Death
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53383
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 pm

Albrenia wrote:Isn't that just straight out murder?


To be clear I do not necessarily think they are in the right, but I would be very confident as their defense attorney.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

User avatar
Albrenia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16619
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Albrenia » Tue May 05, 2020 7:54 pm

Greed and Death wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Isn't that just straight out murder?


To be clear I do not necessarily think they are in the right, but I would be very confident as their defense attorney.


Really? Didn't they literally chase down (in a car, as a group), confront and kill some random guy in the street for the crime of running in their neighbourhood?

User avatar
Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19428
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Tue May 05, 2020 7:54 pm

Swear to God if one day I get murdered by some racist douchebag, his ass better end up like me in less than three days.

This story absolutely makes my blood boil. These two pricks saw a black man out jogging and decided to go fire the truck up and get the guns and shot this dude in cold blood. They belong behind bars forever. This wasn't remotely self defense, it was cold blooded murder, and it should convince the last three black people who don't own guns to buy a gun. Now that Trump is president, these bigots are coming out the woodwork, so tell me who can you trust? No one should be defending the slaughter of an innocent jogger for any reason, especially his skin color.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue May 05, 2020 7:54 pm

…What the actual fuck.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.



Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19428
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Tue May 05, 2020 7:54 pm

Albrenia wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:
To be clear I do not necessarily think they are in the right, but I would be very confident as their defense attorney.


Really? Didn't they literally chase down (in a car, as a group), confront and kill some random guy in the street for the crime of running in their neighbourhood?


Stand your ground law in the south basically equals legalized murder. As long as you cop the bullshit excuse of feeling threatened, you could potentially shoot almost anyone dead.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6942
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue May 05, 2020 7:55 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Albrenia wrote:
Really? Didn't they literally chase down (in a car, as a group), confront and kill some random guy in the street for the crime of running in their neighbourhood?


Stand your ground law in the south basically equals legalized murder. As long as you cop the bullshit excuse of feeling threatened, you could potentially shoot almost anyone dead.

I'm all for strong self defense laws, but I do agree there needs to be some revisions.

User avatar
Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19428
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Tue May 05, 2020 7:57 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Stand your ground law in the south basically equals legalized murder. As long as you cop the bullshit excuse of feeling threatened, you could potentially shoot almost anyone dead.

I'm all for strong self defense laws, but I do agree there needs to be some revisions.


I still can't believe that two cocksuckers saw a guy running down the street, hopped in their truck, cornered him, shot him, and they ain't already doing life.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

User avatar
Albrenia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16619
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Albrenia » Tue May 05, 2020 7:59 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Stand your ground law in the south basically equals legalized murder. As long as you cop the bullshit excuse of feeling threatened, you could potentially shoot almost anyone dead.

I'm all for strong self defense laws, but I do agree there needs to be some revisions.


I guess some places in the US really are like the stereotypes.

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6942
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue May 05, 2020 7:59 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I'm all for strong self defense laws, but I do agree there needs to be some revisions.


I still can't believe that two cocksuckers saw a guy running down the street, hopped in their truck, cornered him, shot him, and they ain't already doing life.

I agree, it is fucked up. That is not what a self defense law is for, and thus should be modified to exclude these types of situations.Something similar should be passed to modify citizen's arrest laws.

User avatar
Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19428
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Tue May 05, 2020 8:00 pm

Albrenia wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I'm all for strong self defense laws, but I do agree there needs to be some revisions.


I guess some places in the US really are like the stereotypes.


I consider everywhere south of the Mason dixon line to be a no go zone, and rural Michigan is still like a travel advisory for me.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

User avatar
Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45100
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Tue May 05, 2020 8:01 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I'm all for strong self defense laws, but I do agree there needs to be some revisions.


I still can't believe that two cocksuckers saw a guy running down the street, hopped in their truck, cornered him, shot him, and they ain't already doing life.

Or that we had to spend two months handwringing on whether or not to even bring charges.

Series of burglaries? Worthy of roaming armed thugs shooting a black jogger.

Shooting of an unarmed black jogger? Let's all just step back and make sure there isn't a way to let them get away with this...
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6942
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue May 05, 2020 8:02 pm

Albrenia wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I'm all for strong self defense laws, but I do agree there needs to be some revisions.


I guess some places in the US really are like the stereotypes.

Unfortunately. While this does not represent the U.S. as a whole, we have our problems.

User avatar
Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45100
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Tue May 05, 2020 8:04 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
I still can't believe that two cocksuckers saw a guy running down the street, hopped in their truck, cornered him, shot him, and they ain't already doing life.

I agree, it is fucked up. That is not what a self defense law is for, and thus should be modified to exclude these types of situations.Something similar should be passed to modify citizen's arrest laws.

They already didn't follow citizen arrest laws. They didn't observe him in a crime. They 'thought' he looked like the guy. Their only legal move was to tell the police where he was.

Except this is the south and they're white dudes with law enforcement connections, so they get to jump straight to 'shoot him dead in the street.'
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6942
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue May 05, 2020 8:06 pm

I hope they face charges in the end.

User avatar
True Refuge
Senator
 
Posts: 4111
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby True Refuge » Tue May 05, 2020 8:10 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
I still can't believe that two cocksuckers saw a guy running down the street, hopped in their truck, cornered him, shot him, and they ain't already doing life.

I agree, it is fucked up. That is not what a self defense law is for, and thus should be modified to exclude these types of situations.Something similar should be passed to modify citizen's arrest laws.


There seems to be a real distortion in application of stand your ground laws in the US from what they were originally supposed to accomplish.

In theory they're supposed to have an element of reasonableness, proximity, and proportionate force and I think most statutes contain those requirements, but it's very strange that it keeps being twisted to defend one-sided engagements in cases like these. Must be something wrong in the prosecutor's department as well, it seems.
Last edited by True Refuge on Tue May 05, 2020 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
COMMUNIST
"If we have food, he will eat. If we have air, he will breathe. If we have fuel, he will fly." - Becky Chambers, Record of a Spaceborn Few
"One does not need to be surprised then, when 26 years later the outrageous slogan is repeated, which we Marxists burned all bridges with: to “pick up” the banner of the bourgeoisie. - International Communist Party, Dialogue with Stalin.

ML, anarchism, co-operativism (known incorrectly as "Market Socialism"), Proudhonism, radical liberalism, utopianism, social democracy, national capitalism, Maoism, etc. are not communist tendencies. Read a book already.

User avatar
Unstoppable Empire of Doom
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1798
Founded: Dec 18, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Tue May 05, 2020 8:11 pm

Albrenia wrote:Isn't that just straight out murder?

Yes and that is why they are facing criminal charges right now. If it is as written by the OP they will end up in prison for at least 20 years to life, or possibly the death penelty. The US is a land of laws and people forget that when they read these things. Mostly they scream systemic racism and never actually follow the case.

Here was the last one I saw posted on here https://www.npr.org/2019/10/10/76908971 ... s-20-years
Once again people here claimed he would go free. Obviously he is in prison for 20 years. Dont get me wrong, 20 years is a light sentence for it but yall need to write your state reps about that.

Justice will be done (unless they are rich) /thread
Whoever said "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink" has clearly never drown a horse.

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6942
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue May 05, 2020 8:12 pm

True Refuge wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I agree, it is fucked up. That is not what a self defense law is for, and thus should be modified to exclude these types of situations.Something similar should be passed to modify citizen's arrest laws.


There seems to be a real distortion in application of stand your ground laws in the US from what they were originally supposed to accomplish.

In theory they're supposed to have an element of reasonableness, proximity, and proportionate force and I think most statutes contain those requirements, but it's very strange that it keeps being twisted to defend one-sided engagements in cases like these. Must be something wrong in the prosecutor's department as well, it seems.

We also have juries, and they can misinterpret the laws.

User avatar
Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45100
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Tue May 05, 2020 8:13 pm

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Isn't that just straight out murder?

Yes and that is why they are facing criminal charges right now. If it is as written by the OP they will end up in prison for at least 20 years to life, or possibly the death penelty. The US is a land of laws and people forget that when they read these things. Mostly they scream systemic racism and never actually follow the case.

Here was the last one I saw posted on here https://www.npr.org/2019/10/10/76908971 ... s-20-years
Once again people here claimed he would go free. Obviously he is in prison for 20 years. Dont get me wrong, 20 years is a light sentence for it but yall need to write your state reps about that.

Justice will be done (unless they are rich) /thread

George Zimmerman.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

User avatar
Greed and Death
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53383
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Tue May 05, 2020 8:24 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Stand your ground law in the south basically equals legalized murder. As long as you cop the bullshit excuse of feeling threatened, you could potentially shoot almost anyone dead.

I'm all for strong self defense laws, but I do agree there needs to be some revisions.


More so the citizens arrest laws.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

User avatar
True Refuge
Senator
 
Posts: 4111
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby True Refuge » Tue May 05, 2020 8:25 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
True Refuge wrote:
There seems to be a real distortion in application of stand your ground laws in the US from what they were originally supposed to accomplish.

In theory they're supposed to have an element of reasonableness, proximity, and proportionate force and I think most statutes contain those requirements, but it's very strange that it keeps being twisted to defend one-sided engagements in cases like these. Must be something wrong in the prosecutor's department as well, it seems.

We also have juries, and they can misinterpret the laws.


A pretty key weakness in the system, definitely.

Florida Statute wrote: Chapter 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

View Entire Chapter
776.012 Use or threatened use of force in defense of person.—
(1) A person is justified in using or threatening to use force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. A person who uses or threatens to use force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat before using or threatening to use such force.
(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.


This is pretty typical of Stand Your Ground laws, and the requirement of (1) reasonableness of belief (2) imminent threat of serious harm (3) proportionate response would seem to be enough to place limits on self-defence to prevent this sort of occurrence happening.

The danger is in interpretation and the lack of legal knowledge of juries (and the interest of both prosecutors and defense attorneys to twist it a little).

Plus, while this is a mix of self defense and citizen's arrest laws, it leans much more towards the latter.
Last edited by True Refuge on Tue May 05, 2020 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
COMMUNIST
"If we have food, he will eat. If we have air, he will breathe. If we have fuel, he will fly." - Becky Chambers, Record of a Spaceborn Few
"One does not need to be surprised then, when 26 years later the outrageous slogan is repeated, which we Marxists burned all bridges with: to “pick up” the banner of the bourgeoisie. - International Communist Party, Dialogue with Stalin.

ML, anarchism, co-operativism (known incorrectly as "Market Socialism"), Proudhonism, radical liberalism, utopianism, social democracy, national capitalism, Maoism, etc. are not communist tendencies. Read a book already.

User avatar
Greed and Death
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53383
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Tue May 05, 2020 8:26 pm

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Isn't that just straight out murder?

Yes and that is why they are facing criminal charges right now. If it is as written by the OP they will end up in prison for at least 20 years to life, or possibly the death penelty. The US is a land of laws and people forget that when they read these things. Mostly they scream systemic racism and never actually follow the case.

Here was the last one I saw posted on here https://www.npr.org/2019/10/10/76908971 ... s-20-years
Once again people here claimed he would go free. Obviously he is in prison for 20 years. Dont get me wrong, 20 years is a light sentence for it but yall need to write your state reps about that.

Justice will be done (unless they are rich) /thread

The homes go for 500,000 in that area, they also tend to have docks. The district attorney and 1st Assistant district attorney has recused because they know the suspect from fund raising.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

User avatar
Greed and Death
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53383
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Tue May 05, 2020 8:29 pm

True Refuge wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:We also have juries, and they can misinterpret the laws.


A pretty key weakness in the system, definitely.

Florida Statute wrote: Chapter 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

View Entire Chapter
776.012 Use or threatened use of force in defense of person.—
(1) A person is justified in using or threatening to use force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. A person who uses or threatens to use force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat before using or threatening to use such force.
(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.


This is pretty typical of Stand Your Ground laws, and the requirement of (1) reasonableness of belief (2) imminent threat of serious harm (3) proportionate response would seem to be enough to place limits on self-defence to prevent this sort of occurrence happening.

The danger is in interpretation and the lack of legal knowledge of juries (and the interest of both prosecutors and defense attorneys to twist it a little).

Plus, while this is a mix of self defense and citizen's arrest laws, it leans much more towards the latter.


Wrong state. This is Georgia.
Next you are looking at self defense not standard your ground. All stand your ground does is remove the requirement that you try and run away before defending themselves.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dazchan, Herador, ImSaLiA, Tillania, Tungstan

Advertisement

Remove ads