NATION

PASSWORD

If you could speak with the Devil, would you do it?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Mzeusia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Mzeusia » Tue May 12, 2020 3:08 pm

Albrenia wrote:
Mzeusia wrote:The devil is fighting against man? Only in the untrustworthy Bible. We can't know this for sure.


Not man, The Man.

The Authority. He Who Sits Upon The Big Chair Above.

Oh, right. Well The Man doesn't really give a great impression of himself (especially in the old testament) so the fight might be justified.
Last edited by Mzeusia on Tue May 12, 2020 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vetalia
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Postby Vetalia » Tue May 12, 2020 3:13 pm

There's no chance in hell I'd speak to an evil, immortal being with an intelligence and capabilities far greater than my own. That's just inviting disaster.
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Spiritual Republic of Caryton
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Postby Spiritual Republic of Caryton » Tue May 12, 2020 3:23 pm

My basic response comes from this scripture in the Book of Mormon, 2nd Nephi 2:8-25

8 Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.

9 Wherefore, he is the firstfruits unto God, inasmuch as he shall make intercession for all the children of men; and they that believe in him shall be saved.

10 And because of the intercession for all, all men come unto God; wherefore, they stand in the presence of him, to be judged of him according to the truth and holiness which is in him. Wherefore, the ends of the law which the Holy One hath given, unto the inflicting of the punishment which is affixed, which punishment that is affixed is in opposition to that of the happiness which is affixed, to answer the ends of the atonement—

11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my firstborn in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

12 Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God.

13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

14 And now, my sons, I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning; for there is a God, and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon.

15 And to bring about his eternal purposes in the end of man, after he had created our first parents, and the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and in fine, all things which are created, it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life; the one being sweet and the other bitter.

16 Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by the one or the other.

17 And I, Lehi, according to the things which I have read, must needs suppose that an angel of God, according to that which is written, had fallen from heaven; wherefore, he became a devil, having sought that which was evil before God.

18 And because he had fallen from heaven, and had become miserable forever, he sought also the misery of all mankind. Wherefore, he said unto Eve, yea, even that old serpent, who is the devil, who is the father of all lies, wherefore he said: Partake of the forbidden fruit, and ye shall not die, but ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.

19 And after Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit they were driven out of the garden of Eden, to till the earth.

20 And they have brought forth children; yea, even the family of all the earth.

21 And the days of the children of amen were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.

22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.

23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.

24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.

25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.


Adam fell that we might have joy. If there had been no satan to entice Adam and Eve, they would not have reproduced and all things would have been perfect in the Garden of Eden. We would not have needed a savior and the first humans would not have descended to Adam ondi-Ahman. If there is no opposition, there is no free merit, and there is no God-- to simplify verse 13. It is our decision and ours alone if we wish to talk with Satan and the sons of perdition. We do not know how Satan works in this situation. He may bestow upon us infinite wisdom-- or a poison of knowledge as described in Genesis, "the tree of life" and the "fruit of knowledge." But if Adam and Eve had not partaken in the fruit, there would be no joy-- only innocence. I do not know if conversing with him will provoke the wrath of my Heavenly Father, but based on this wise and inspiring scripture, the knowledge I would gain should only press Humanity to be more faithful, to uphold the covenants, and to come unto Jesus Christ. Thus, I say that if Satan poisons me, I would be considered a martyr for the children of man. "Doing no good, for they knew no sin." I would feel it as my duty to go down so that others knew deeply what right was, just as Lehi's teachings unto his son Nephi.

Your free will is not apostasy. It is not punishment or perdition or prison. It is a gift to lighten our souls and minds.
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Asle Leopolka
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Postby Asle Leopolka » Tue May 12, 2020 3:56 pm

I'd rather not talk with my ex.
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Nakena
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Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Tue May 12, 2020 4:00 pm

Asle Leopolka wrote:I'd rather not talk with my ex.


But but that couldn be.

Sundiata wrote:As for Satan being a woman, no human woman can be that grotesque even in the most sinful of circumstances. Satan is the most vile, evil, and depraved being in existence and to equate a woman to that sort of sickness is nothing short of misogyny (Unintentional I presume).

Women are lovely, but a virtuous woman is the loveliest of all.

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Spiritual Republic of Caryton
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Postby Spiritual Republic of Caryton » Tue May 12, 2020 4:08 pm

Nakena wrote:
Asle Leopolka wrote:I'd rather not talk with my ex.


But but that couldn be.

Sundiata wrote:As for Satan being a woman, no human woman can be that grotesque even in the most sinful of circumstances. Satan is the most vile, evil, and depraved being in existence and to equate a woman to that sort of sickness is nothing short of misogyny (Unintentional I presume).

Women are lovely, but a virtuous woman is the loveliest of all.


I mean, unless you find that one chaotic evil National Jucheist Anti-Glasses Gang goth girl that wants to see the world die and James Mason rise from obscurity.
The Spiritual Republic of Caryton
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A serene & puritan 80s-90s tech agrarian Christian fundamentalist nation with no separation between church and state. Wide prairies, fertile plains, archaic clothing, clean skies, lack of modern influence, universal prohibition, kind societies, and simple austere lives forge the Carytonic identity.
Music of Caryton: [8-29-22] Classic Carytonic Sing-Along Hymns

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Cekoviu
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Tue May 12, 2020 5:09 pm

No. It's impossible to trust anything he would say.
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Sadakoyama
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sadakoyama » Tue May 12, 2020 5:12 pm

I've repeatedly tried to offer my soul in exchange for wizard powers. So; yes.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Tue May 12, 2020 8:14 pm

Sadakoyama wrote:I've repeatedly tried to offer my soul in exchange for wizard powers. So; yes.


Lmfao.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Green October Z
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Postby Green October Z » Tue May 12, 2020 8:15 pm

Cekoviu wrote:No. It's impossible to trust anything he would say.


How would you know? ;)
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Tue May 12, 2020 8:18 pm

Green October Z wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:No. It's impossible to trust anything he would say.


How would you know? ;)

The devil is well-known for misleading and tempting mankind. It's kind of his entire schtick -- remember the story of Adam and Eve?
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Green October Z
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Postby Green October Z » Tue May 12, 2020 8:19 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Green October Z wrote:
How would you know? ;)

The devil is well-known for misleading and tempting mankind. It's kind of his entire schtick -- remember the story of Adam and Eve?


Yes, but how do we know its not just propaganda? Shouldn't we get all sides of the story?
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Tue May 12, 2020 8:25 pm

Green October Z wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:The devil is well-known for misleading and tempting mankind. It's kind of his entire schtick -- remember the story of Adam and Eve?


Yes, but how do we know its not just propaganda? Shouldn't we get all sides of the story?


It's propaganda, blatantly false, nonsense and has been several times retconned too. Like Adams first wife has been omitted from the story.
Last edited by Nakena on Tue May 12, 2020 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Tue May 12, 2020 8:29 pm

Green October Z wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:The devil is well-known for misleading and tempting mankind. It's kind of his entire schtick -- remember the story of Adam and Eve?


Yes, but how do we know its not just propaganda? Shouldn't we get all sides of the story?

The OP stipulates that the Bible is accurate in this scenario, so that's really not an issue.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Tue May 12, 2020 8:29 pm

Nakena wrote:
Green October Z wrote:
Yes, but how do we know its not just propaganda? Shouldn't we get all sides of the story?


It's propaganda, blatantly false, nonsense and has been several times retconned too. Like Adams first wife has been omitted from the story.

Also, not enough people talk about the fact that Eve is a trans woman.
pro: women's rights
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Sadakoyama
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sadakoyama » Tue May 12, 2020 8:30 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Green October Z wrote:
How would you know? ;)

The devil is well-known for misleading and tempting mankind. It's kind of his entire schtick -- remember the story of Adam and Eve?


"Satan is a liar" writes the people speaking for a serial genocial maniac, child murderer, and sex pervert.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Tue May 12, 2020 8:32 pm

Sadakoyama wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:The devil is well-known for misleading and tempting mankind. It's kind of his entire schtick -- remember the story of Adam and Eve?


"Satan is a liar" writes the people speaking for a serial genocial maniac, child murderer, and sex pervert.

I mean, even if we accept those things as true and accurate, none of those necessitate lying, so I don't see the contradiction tbqhwy. Nice attempt at getting me mad, though!
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Sadakoyama
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Postby Sadakoyama » Tue May 12, 2020 8:37 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Sadakoyama wrote:
"Satan is a liar" writes the people speaking for a serial genocial maniac, child murderer, and sex pervert.

I mean, even if we accept those things as true and accurate, none of those necessitate lying, so I don't see the contradiction tbqhwy. Nice attempt at getting me mad, though!


I didn't mean you, I meant the people who wrote the bible. By their own account, which I suppose was meant to be complimentary, God is a monster. Satan is the one that opened our eyes and freed our minds. He's Prometheus.
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Tue May 12, 2020 8:47 pm

Cekoviu wrote:No. It's impossible to trust anything he would say.

There is some precedent for the devil helping people get what they want.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Tue May 12, 2020 8:58 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Nakena wrote:
It's propaganda, blatantly false, nonsense and has been several times retconned too. Like Adams first wife has been omitted from the story.

Also, not enough people talk about the fact that Eve is a trans woman.


We haven't even gotten started on Pokemon.

Yes Pokemon.

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue May 12, 2020 9:05 pm

Bassoe wrote:Does proximity to the Devil cause crosses to melt? Because if so, I've got an idea.

A water tank. The tank contains multiple tantalum hafnium carbide crucifixes and is hooked up to a turbine generator to use the steam produced to generate electricity. While the Devil waits for me to decide if I'll sell my soul (which I won't. Sell my soul or make a decision), the tank is assembled around them.

Basically pic related but remove the reactor vessel and stick the Devil and crosses into the steam generator tank.

(Image)

Free and environmentally friendly power!

Also, now that I know the Devil exist and all that implies, I'm converting as soon as possible, ten percent of the electricity sales money is getting tithed and I'll run tours of the plant to show off a captive Devil as proof of all that implies to skeptics.

So that's my soul saved (in reality, due to lack of evidence for the divine I'm a agnostic but with a genuine Devil I've got proof otherwise), probably a bunch of other souls also saved (other people with the same logic I had after seeing the Devil), charity gets massive donations and there's now a partial solution to the energy crisis. A complete solution if more demons can be summoned.

Conservation of energy - energy can be neither created nor destroyed. This means for crosses to burst into flame, the devil must be getting colder. This means that, with sufficient numbers of crosses, we could freeze him solid, all while extracting energy.
Last edited by Galloism on Tue May 12, 2020 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
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Jedi Council
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Postby Jedi Council » Tue May 12, 2020 9:09 pm

If I had the opportunity to speak to fictional Characters there would be a host I would choose before the Devil.

Most other fictitious villains are better written and far more interesting
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Antityranicals
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Ex-Nation

Postby Antityranicals » Tue May 12, 2020 9:14 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:Lucifer. Satan. The father of lies. The formless one. The morning star. For more than 2,000 years, the Devil has terrorized the hearts of Jews, Christians and Muslims worldwide, and has played a central role in the abrahamic religions. The image of Lucifer, a perfect being who fell from grace, serves both as a symbol of arrogance and also of free will. These days the Devil is found everywhere from Southpark to your local Party City. Living in a mostly Christian culture, you can't go your whole life not hearing of Satan at least ten times. Now, I'm an atheist and I don't believe in a literal Devil or God, but I do see the devil as a symbol of unbridled evil. The devil represents the darkness inside of humanity and mankind's most primal and selfish instincts. Satan represents thousands of years of human violence and greed, and you might say we all have a little twist of cain within us.

But what if the devil was real? What if the Bible and Quran were correct and Lucifer really was an actual being? Would you dear viewer try to talk to him? If I gave you an occult ritual which you could use to summon the devil so you could ask him anything, would you do it? I personally would be very hesitant to summon the root of all evil, but I know some folks who definitely would do it. Do you believe the devil is real? Would you try to converse with him? Let me know down below.

No way. This is the guy who thought it worthwhile to try to tempt God Incarnate Himself. If Satan came after me, I would trust in God to protect me, but that doesn't mean I should summon him.
Compass: Right: 9.94, Libertarian: -5.84
Catholic Libertarian. Gov't has no authority, all authority is from God. God grants us free will, gov't should not infringe upon it. Legislating morality is wrong. Only exception is protecting rights to life, liberty, and property. Abortion is killing an infant, one of the few things gov't should prevent. Pro-Trump, he's been an effective weapon against real enemies of freedom: The Left, but I wish he were more for free trade, more against deficits. Unrestrained capitalism is a great thing; it does wonders for standards of living of everyone, especially the poor.
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Antityranicals
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Postby Antityranicals » Tue May 12, 2020 9:15 pm

Galloism wrote:
Bassoe wrote:Does proximity to the Devil cause crosses to melt? Because if so, I've got an idea.

A water tank. The tank contains multiple tantalum hafnium carbide crucifixes and is hooked up to a turbine generator to use the steam produced to generate electricity. While the Devil waits for me to decide if I'll sell my soul (which I won't. Sell my soul or make a decision), the tank is assembled around them.

Basically pic related but remove the reactor vessel and stick the Devil and crosses into the steam generator tank.

(Image)

Free and environmentally friendly power!

Also, now that I know the Devil exist and all that implies, I'm converting as soon as possible, ten percent of the electricity sales money is getting tithed and I'll run tours of the plant to show off a captive Devil as proof of all that implies to skeptics.

So that's my soul saved (in reality, due to lack of evidence for the divine I'm a agnostic but with a genuine Devil I've got proof otherwise), probably a bunch of other souls also saved (other people with the same logic I had after seeing the Devil), charity gets massive donations and there's now a partial solution to the energy crisis. A complete solution if more demons can be summoned.

Conservation of energy - energy can be neither created nor destroyed. This means for crosses to burst into flame, the devil must be getting colder. This means that, with sufficient numbers of crosses, we could freeze him solid, all while extracting energy.

Unless, of course, Satan absorbs back some of the heat from the flame. Fire is, after all, exothermic, so it produces more heat than it absorbs.
Compass: Right: 9.94, Libertarian: -5.84
Catholic Libertarian. Gov't has no authority, all authority is from God. God grants us free will, gov't should not infringe upon it. Legislating morality is wrong. Only exception is protecting rights to life, liberty, and property. Abortion is killing an infant, one of the few things gov't should prevent. Pro-Trump, he's been an effective weapon against real enemies of freedom: The Left, but I wish he were more for free trade, more against deficits. Unrestrained capitalism is a great thing; it does wonders for standards of living of everyone, especially the poor.
HS student in the USA. Male. XC runner, 17:30 5k, 4:59 mile. I enjoy singing, sushi, eating large quantities of food, and eating large quantities of sushi.

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue May 12, 2020 9:23 pm

Antityranicals wrote:
Galloism wrote:Conservation of energy - energy can be neither created nor destroyed. This means for crosses to burst into flame, the devil must be getting colder. This means that, with sufficient numbers of crosses, we could freeze him solid, all while extracting energy.

Unless, of course, Satan absorbs back some of the heat from the flame. Fire is, after all, exothermic, so it produces more heat than it absorbs.

The answer then obviously being to choose cross materials that require more heat to reach their auto ignition temperature than will be produced by said combustion.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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