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Coronavirus Thread IV: Legends, Laments and Lockdowns

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:20 am
by Nakena
>>> WHERE CAN I LEARN MORE?
>>> WHAT HAS THE VIRUS DONE? At the start of 2020, coronavirus was merely a novel pneumonia that wasn't SARS but was most certainly being carried about by a smattering of people from Wuhan. Fast forward a few months and we've got 2.5 million cases, over 90% of the world's student population isn't going to school, EURO 2020's become EURO 2021, Tokyo 2020's become Tokyo 2021 but it's still Tokyo 2020, almost all sportsball's been suspended for the next few months, the list of other events that have been cancelled are too numerous to reel off here, billions of people are under lockdown - need I go on?

>>> WHAT CAN I DO HERE? This is a catch-all coronavirus thread. You may now begin to grumble about it, but Please note! that Max Himself has stated that the moderators will issue bans against those who peddle misinformation such as "claim[s that] the virus is a government conspiracy, or that people should ignore expert medical advice" - so please stay indoors if you can, wash your hands, keep at least two metres from other people, and do continue to post here as you normally did (subject to the temporary edict, of course). OK, now you can start grumbling... or, for that matter, continue grumbling about DPA-related coronavirus medical supply diversion from the second thread.

5th-9th April 2020 (246 voters): How scared are you of contracting coronavirus?
    I: Very scared: 24 (10%)
    II: Somewhat scared: 58 (24%)
    III: A bit scared: 73 (30%)
    IV: Not scared at all: 59 (24%)
    !: Been there, done that...: 8 (3%)
    Eh, whatever - I hope David Hasselhoff's safe: 24 (10%)

12th-17th April 2020 (263 voters): When do you think your area will lift all restrictions?
    I: Before the end of next month: 43 (16%)
    II: At some point in Summer 2020: 111 (42%)
    III: By the end of 2020: 58 (22%)
    IV: At some point in 2021: 24 (9%)
    !: Never - get used to the new normal...: 25 (10%)
    My state/country has not yet imposed any restrictions: 2 (<1%)


Credits of the OP format + content go to Tinhampton

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:22 am
by San Lumen
I don’t like the thread title. Might I suggest I Am all the Viruses?

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:24 am
by Nobel Hobos 2
Kowani wrote:
San Lumen wrote:That’s ridiculous.Clearly no country is going to adopt the Swedish model going forward and is just going to keep restricting people

Perhaps because it doesn’t work?


Carried over from the previous thread.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:25 am
by San Lumen
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Let it be noted that the first post is San Lumen whining.

It was merely a suggestion nothing more

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:26 am
by Kowani
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Let it be noted that the first post is San Lumen whining.

As is half of the thread.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:28 am
by San Lumen
Kowani wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Let it be noted that the first post is San Lumen whining.

As is half of the thread.

Well excuse me for making a suggestion

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:29 am
by Valentian Elysium
Sixth
It seems to be getting slightly better....let's hope that there isn't a second wave...

Is there gonna be a poll too?

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:33 am
by Nakena
San Lumen wrote:I don’t like the thread title. Might I suggest I Am all the Viruses?


You just got me on a much better idea...

Valentian Elysium wrote:Sixth
It seems to be getting slightly better....let's hope that there isn't a second wave...

Is there gonna be a poll too?


Yes. It is currently being prepared by our top-notch team of pollsters.

If you have suggestions though, they are gleefully considered.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:40 am
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
San Lumen wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Germans are very reasonable people, they will gladly go back to church with restrictions. As many other people are going back to their jobs, with restrictions. Or going out in public to socialize, with restrictions.

It's your refusal to accept any restrictions which makes your position unsustainable.

When your time comes, and there's a job for you (with restrictions), I think you'll abandon your silly objections. It's a choice between normal life with restrictions, or being stuck in your house raging against restrictions. You won't be so silly as the way you talk here, I am sure.

And restrictions on restaurants for example of kept to long will put them out of business because they can’t make any money

Is this what this is about? Being unable to go to Mcdonalds for your daily sustenance people?

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:40 am
by Nobel Hobos 2
San Lumen wrote:
Kowani wrote:As is half of the thread.

Well excuse me for making a suggestion


Yeah sorry, I regret that personal attack.

Maybe you'd like to comment on the link above, about Sweden.

Our understanding of Sweden has been heavily biased by their "chief epidemiologist" Anders Tegnell. Shamelessly spruiking the approach he designed, and playing the politician. His claim that Sweden has achieved 30% herd immunity has been withdrawn.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:58 am
by Greater vakolicci haven
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Kowani wrote:Perhaps because it doesn’t work?


Carried over from the previous thread.

It doesn't work if you're determined to save every life no matter the cost. If you care about freedom though, it's the only option.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:59 am
by Thermodolia
What about “May the 4th be with you” for a title

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:00 pm
by Andsed
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Carried over from the previous thread.

It doesn't work if you're determined to save every life no matter the cost. If you care about freedom though, it's the only option.

Freedom sometimes has to be sacrificed to deal with a crisis. Avoiding taking action to avoid a pandemic for "freedom" is just bad governance.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:04 pm
by Estanglia
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Carried over from the previous thread.

It doesn't work if you're determined to save every life no matter the cost. If you care about freedom though, it's the only option.


Either way you sacrifice freedoms.

You either sacrifice the freedoms of many temporarily (assuming you're not living in an authoritarian or about-to-be-authoritarian state) to reduce the number of people who lose their freedoms permanently, or sacrifice the freedoms of a larger number of people permanently to prevent the temporary loss of the freedoms of many.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:04 pm
by San Lumen
Andsed wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:It doesn't work if you're determined to save every life no matter the cost. If you care about freedom though, it's the only option.

Freedom sometimes has to be sacrificed to deal with a crisis. Avoiding taking action to avoid a pandemic for "freedom" is just bad governance.

Those that would give a little liberty for temporary safety deserve neither and lose both. Ben Franklin said. Was he wrong?

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:05 pm
by Greater vakolicci haven
Estanglia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:It doesn't work if you're determined to save every life no matter the cost. If you care about freedom though, it's the only option.


Either way you sacrifice freedoms.

You either sacrifice the freedoms of many temporarily (assuming you're not living in an authoritarian or about-to-be-authoritarian state) to reduce the number of people who lose their freedoms permanently, or sacrifice the freedoms of a larger number of people permanently to prevent the temporary loss of the freedoms of many.

Their is freedom in the afterlife.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:06 pm
by Estanglia
San Lumen wrote:
Andsed wrote:Freedom sometimes has to be sacrificed to deal with a crisis. Avoiding taking action to avoid a pandemic for "freedom" is just bad governance.

Those that would give a little liberty for temporary safety deserve neither and lose both. Ben Franklin said. Was he wrong?


In the "deserve neither" part, that's subjective. In the "lose both" part, looks like it will be a waiting game to see if that applies to this situation.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:07 pm
by Andsed
San Lumen wrote:
Andsed wrote:Freedom sometimes has to be sacrificed to deal with a crisis. Avoiding taking action to avoid a pandemic for "freedom" is just bad governance.

Those that would give a little liberty for temporary safety deserve neither and lose both. Ben Franklin said. Was he wrong?

Freedoms can be restored after a crisis. Lives of people who die cannot. I would much rather have freedoms temporarily restricted than thousands of preventable deaths.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:08 pm
by Estanglia
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Either way you sacrifice freedoms.

You either sacrifice the freedoms of many temporarily (assuming you're not living in an authoritarian or about-to-be-authoritarian state) to reduce the number of people who lose their freedoms permanently, or sacrifice the freedoms of a larger number of people permanently to prevent the temporary loss of the freedoms of many.

Their is freedom in the afterlife.


Presuming that there is an afterlife, something we cannot prove right now. Also presuming that there is freedom in said afterlife, something we again cannot prove.

So you're taking a gamble with the dead's freedom, hoping that they have freedom wherever they go, rather than trying to ensure they have freedom where we can guarantee they have freedom.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:09 pm
by Greater vakolicci haven
Estanglia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Their is freedom in the afterlife.


Presuming that there is an afterlife, something we cannot prove right now. Also presuming that there is freedom in said afterlife, something we again cannot prove.

So you're taking a gamble with the dead's freedom, hoping that they have freedom wherever they go, rather than trying to ensure they have freedom where we can guarantee they have freedom.

But they don't have freedom here and now do they?

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:10 pm
by Estanglia
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Presuming that there is an afterlife, something we cannot prove right now. Also presuming that there is freedom in said afterlife, something we again cannot prove.

So you're taking a gamble with the dead's freedom, hoping that they have freedom wherever they go, rather than trying to ensure they have freedom where we can guarantee they have freedom.

But they don't have freedom here and now do they?


If they're dead, they don't ever. If they're alive, they don't now, but might in the future.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:10 pm
by Andsed
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Presuming that there is an afterlife, something we cannot prove right now. Also presuming that there is freedom in said afterlife, something we again cannot prove.

So you're taking a gamble with the dead's freedom, hoping that they have freedom wherever they go, rather than trying to ensure they have freedom where we can guarantee they have freedom.

But they don't have freedom here and now do they?

Only for a temporary period. Death is permanent. Freedom cannot always be the top priority. Sometimes during an extreme crisis we have to look past them to take action to save lives.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:14 pm
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Either way you sacrifice freedoms.

You either sacrifice the freedoms of many temporarily (assuming you're not living in an authoritarian or about-to-be-authoritarian state) to reduce the number of people who lose their freedoms permanently, or sacrifice the freedoms of a larger number of people permanently to prevent the temporary loss of the freedoms of many.

Their is freedom in the afterlife.

I reject your theological "argument" in whole.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:14 pm
by Pilipinas and Malaya
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Well excuse me for making a suggestion


Yeah sorry, I regret that personal attack.

Maybe you'd like to comment on the link above, about Sweden.

Our understanding of Sweden has been heavily biased by their "chief epidemiologist" Anders Tegnell. Shamelessly spruiking the approach he designed, and playing the politician. His claim that Sweden has achieved 30% herd immunity has been withdrawn.


I’m hoping this won’t happen, but it may be likely that Sweden would experience an uptick in corona cases.

In other news, apparently COVID is now being called the “American Pneumonia Flu” in Wuhan. It suggests that America was the origin of the virus. Some in China might begin to believe it because of the strict chokehold the CCP has on news.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:15 pm
by Greater vakolicci haven
Andsed wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:But they don't have freedom here and now do they?

Only for a temporary period. Death is permanent. Freedom cannot always be the top priority. Sometimes during an extreme crisis we have to look past them to take action to save lives.

Freedom must always be the top priority because life without freedom isn't worth living.