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Coronavirus Thread IV: Legends, Laments and Lockdowns

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Have you or anyone in your vincinity been affected by COVID-19?

I don't know anyone who has been diagnosed with COVID-19
300
44%
I know someone was diagnosed with COVID-19
159
23%
Someone very close to me was diagnosed with COVID-19
42
6%
I know someone who was hospitalized with COVID-19
62
9%
Someone very close to me was hospitalized with COVID-19
30
4%
I was diagnosed with COVID-19
23
3%
I was hospitalized with COVID-19
9
1%
I don't know/unsure/other
57
8%
 
Total votes : 682

User avatar
Estanglia
Senator
 
Posts: 3618
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Estanglia » Sun May 03, 2020 12:16 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Andsed wrote:Only for a temporary period. Death is permanent. Freedom cannot always be the top priority. Sometimes during an extreme crisis we have to look past them to take action to save lives.

Freedom must always be the top priority because life without freedom isn't worth living.


Life without freedom isn't worth living, therefore you're gonna end the lives of people living with freedom, which is presumably worth living.
Last edited by Estanglia on Sun May 03, 2020 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality
Meh: Labour, the EU
Nah: pointless discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit, Trump, both American parties, the Conservatives
I flop between "optimistic about the future" and "pessimistic about the future" every time I go on NSG.

(Taken 29/08/2020)
Political compass test:
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.05

8values thinks I'm a Libertarian Socialist.

Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

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Nakena
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11558
Founded: May 06, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Nakena » Sun May 03, 2020 12:17 pm

Thermodolia wrote:What about “May the 4th be with you” for a title


But Comrade,

what if we would take some "contributions" of the community into account and...

Image
Last edited by Nakena on Sun May 03, 2020 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55378
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Sun May 03, 2020 12:17 pm

Estanglia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Freedom must always be the top priority because life without freedom isn't worth living.


Life without freedom isn't worth living, therefore you're gonna end the lives of people living with freedom, which is presumably worth living.

Freedom is nothing without responsibility.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. Not that I need the coffee, but you know... :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
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King Alfred's Prayer
Be safe, wear your mask outside the home, pray for peace, mercy, and justice to reign in our world. God bless you!

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Pilipinas and Malaya
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1893
Founded: Jun 23, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Sun May 03, 2020 12:18 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Andsed wrote:Only for a temporary period. Death is permanent. Freedom cannot always be the top priority. Sometimes during an extreme crisis we have to look past them to take action to save lives.

Freedom must always be the top priority because life without freedom isn't worth living.


Yeah, but life without actually living is literally nothing. What’s the point of freedom when life is absent? Life without the freedoms for a while is better than not experiencing life at all.
Federative States of Pilipinas and Malaya
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Hello there, welcome to my thoughts.
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Post War America
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7312
Founded: Sep 05, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Post War America » Sun May 03, 2020 12:18 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Andsed wrote:Freedom sometimes has to be sacrificed to deal with a crisis. Avoiding taking action to avoid a pandemic for "freedom" is just bad governance.

Those that would give a little liberty for temporary safety deserve neither and lose both. Ben Franklin said. Was he wrong?


Absolutely, about a great many things.

Sacrificing liberty for safety is literally the definition of society.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
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User avatar
Andsed
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10041
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Andsed » Sun May 03, 2020 12:18 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Andsed wrote:Only for a temporary period. Death is permanent. Freedom cannot always be the top priority. Sometimes during an extreme crisis we have to look past them to take action to save lives.

Freedom must always be the top priority because life without freedom isn't worth living.

Stop being dramatic. This is not some 1984 thought police shit. This is temporary restrictions to prevent a full blown pandemic.
LOVEWHOYOUARE~

User avatar
Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18660
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun May 03, 2020 12:19 pm

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Freedom must always be the top priority because life without freedom isn't worth living.


Yeah, but life without actually living is literally nothing. What’s the point of freedom when life is absent? Life without the freedoms for a while is better than not experiencing life at all.

Will it kill the majority?
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13822
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun May 03, 2020 12:19 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
Yeah, but life without actually living is literally nothing. What’s the point of freedom when life is absent? Life without the freedoms for a while is better than not experiencing life at all.

Will it kill the majority?

How many did the last major worldwide unbridled flu pandemic kill?

User avatar
Andsed
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10041
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Andsed » Sun May 03, 2020 12:20 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
Yeah, but life without actually living is literally nothing. What’s the point of freedom when life is absent? Life without the freedoms for a while is better than not experiencing life at all.

Will it kill the majority?

No. But that does not mean we should let hundreds of thousands die just to uphold "freedom."
LOVEWHOYOUARE~

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13822
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun May 03, 2020 12:22 pm

Andsed wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Will it kill the majority?

No. But that does not mean we should let hundreds of thousands die just to uphold "freedom."

If we let it get to Spanish Flu levels, i.e. let it claim 1-6% of the world population (probably more in our case if we let it run rampant)... 90 to 540 million people die. The world calamity that ended with atom bombs in 1945 "only" killed 85 million people.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Sun May 03, 2020 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19432
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 03, 2020 12:25 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
San Lumen wrote:And restrictions on restaurants for example of kept to long will put them out of business because they can’t make any money

Is this what this is about? Being unable to go to Mcdonalds for your daily sustenance people?


Risking death from COVID to die from junk food.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

User avatar
The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28773
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sun May 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Is this what this is about? Being unable to go to Mcdonalds for your daily sustenance people?


Risking death from COVID to die from junk food.

McDonald's in the UK are going to try to start opening for deliveries only.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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User avatar
Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19432
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Post War America wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Those that would give a little liberty for temporary safety deserve neither and lose both. Ben Franklin said. Was he wrong?


Absolutely, about a great many things.

Sacrificing liberty for safety is literally the definition of society.


Sacrifice too much liberty for safety and there will be no safety from the government. Most governments in the past, present and likely in the future don't usually do something without the ulterior motive of expanding their power or protecting themselves, and already tyrants worldwide are using COVID to expand their power (Orban, dutuerte, etc).
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

User avatar
Theodosiya
Minister
 
Posts: 3145
Founded: Oct 10, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Theodosiya » Sun May 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Luminesa wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Life without freedom isn't worth living, therefore you're gonna end the lives of people living with freedom, which is presumably worth living.

Freedom is nothing without responsibility.

I don't think GVH understand it, or would ever accept. What could be expected, given the way he had, how to explain it, his position throughout the threads?
The strong rules over the weak
And the weak are ruled by the strong
It is the natural order

User avatar
Nakena
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11558
Founded: May 06, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Nakena » Sun May 03, 2020 12:34 pm

Next poll is going to be this, but the wording and phrasing might need some big improvement:

Question: Do you know some people who have been infected

Answers:

I have been infected myself in the past or present
Members of my family have been infected in the past or present
There have been cases amongst friends and acquaintances of mine
No known cases in my social circles so far
My area is relatively little affected by Covid-19
I don't know/Not sure
Other (please share below)
Last edited by Nakena on Sun May 03, 2020 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24268
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun May 03, 2020 12:39 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Post War America wrote:
Absolutely, about a great many things.

Sacrificing liberty for safety is literally the definition of society.


Sacrifice too much liberty for safety and there will be no safety from the government. Most governments in the past, present and likely in the future don't usually do something without the ulterior motive of expanding their power or protecting themselves, and already tyrants worldwide are using COVID to expand their power (Orban, dutuerte, etc).

Yeah, but it’s GVH. Mate probably thinks speed limits are tyranny.
Spanish-American Atheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Ni dios, ni rey, ni patria, ni amo


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19432
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 03, 2020 12:40 pm

Theodosiya wrote:
Luminesa wrote:Freedom is nothing without responsibility.

I don't think GVH understand it, or would ever accept. What could be expected, given the way he had, how to explain it, his position throughout the threads?


I think GVH is an Ancap, although I'm not sure. I think he or someone else said he is and if that is true, HOLY FUCK that's the definition of unchecked freedom without social responsibility.
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Sun May 03, 2020 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

User avatar
Estanglia
Senator
 
Posts: 3618
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Estanglia » Sun May 03, 2020 12:40 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Post War America wrote:
Absolutely, about a great many things.

Sacrificing liberty for safety is literally the definition of society.


Sacrifice too much liberty for safety and there will be no safety from the government. Most governments in the past, present and likely in the future don't usually do something without the ulterior motive of expanding their power or protecting themselves, and already tyrants worldwide are using COVID to expand their power (Orban, dutuerte, etc).


Basically any organisation with power will attempt to extend it.

Sadly, there isn't really much we can do in the middle of this pandemic to deal with that. Protests could give the government an excuse to extend the measures using the argument that these protests endanger the public/spread the virus more, warranting further measures. Also, this is one of the few cases where the government(s) have legitimate reasons for these measures, rather than something baseless and trumped-up that is of no actual danger (or the danger is overstated).
Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality
Meh: Labour, the EU
Nah: pointless discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit, Trump, both American parties, the Conservatives
I flop between "optimistic about the future" and "pessimistic about the future" every time I go on NSG.

(Taken 29/08/2020)
Political compass test:
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.05

8values thinks I'm a Libertarian Socialist.

Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

User avatar
Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19432
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 03, 2020 12:41 pm

Kowani wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Sacrifice too much liberty for safety and there will be no safety from the government. Most governments in the past, present and likely in the future don't usually do something without the ulterior motive of expanding their power or protecting themselves, and already tyrants worldwide are using COVID to expand their power (Orban, dutuerte, etc).

Yeah, but it’s GVH. Mate probably thinks speed limits are tyranny.


GVH thinks Michael Bloomberg worked too hard to spare money for us lowly peasants. I find that funny since bloomberg could live without 90% of his money while we are struggling to get by.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38009
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Sun May 03, 2020 12:41 pm

Kowani wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Sacrifice too much liberty for safety and there will be no safety from the government. Most governments in the past, present and likely in the future don't usually do something without the ulterior motive of expanding their power or protecting themselves, and already tyrants worldwide are using COVID to expand their power (Orban, dutuerte, etc).

Yeah, but it’s GVH. Mate probably thinks speed limits are tyranny.


He has previously argued that blind people should be allowed to drive and preventing them was an unreasonable restriction on their freedom.
Strong opinions, lightly held.

User avatar
Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19432
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 03, 2020 12:42 pm

Estanglia wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Sacrifice too much liberty for safety and there will be no safety from the government. Most governments in the past, present and likely in the future don't usually do something without the ulterior motive of expanding their power or protecting themselves, and already tyrants worldwide are using COVID to expand their power (Orban, dutuerte, etc).


Basically any organisation with power will attempt to extend it.

Sadly, there isn't really much we can do in the middle of this pandemic to deal with that. Protests could give the government an excuse to extend the measures using the argument that these protests endanger the public/spread the virus more, warranting further measures. Also, this is one of the few cases where the government(s) have legitimate reasons for these measures, rather than something baseless and trumped-up that is of no actual danger (or the danger is overstated).


There will be alot of social consequences because of COVID. It's hard to tell if we are doing everything right now, and that'll only be truly known years from now when COVID no longer exists.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

User avatar
Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19432
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 03, 2020 12:43 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Kowani wrote:Yeah, but it’s GVH. Mate probably thinks speed limits are tyranny.


He has previously argued that blind people should be allowed to drive and preventing them was an unreasonable restriction on their freedom.


Once, I saw a commercial for the Sam Bernstein lawfirm in which Richard Bernstein was driving a bus. I didn't sleep at all that night because all I could think was oh dear God, Richard's blind and there were children on that bus.
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Sun May 03, 2020 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 141504
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Sun May 03, 2020 12:44 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Andsed wrote:Freedom sometimes has to be sacrificed to deal with a crisis. Avoiding taking action to avoid a pandemic for "freedom" is just bad governance.

Those that would give a little liberty for temporary safety deserve neither and lose both. Ben Franklin said. Was he wrong?

Yes.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46552
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Sun May 03, 2020 12:46 pm

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Those that would give a little liberty for temporary safety deserve neither and lose both. Ben Franklin said. Was he wrong?

Yes.

Why?

User avatar
Estanglia
Senator
 
Posts: 3618
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Estanglia » Sun May 03, 2020 12:46 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Basically any organisation with power will attempt to extend it.

Sadly, there isn't really much we can do in the middle of this pandemic to deal with that. Protests could give the government an excuse to extend the measures using the argument that these protests endanger the public/spread the virus more, warranting further measures. Also, this is one of the few cases where the government(s) have legitimate reasons for these measures, rather than something baseless and trumped-up that is of no actual danger (or the danger is overstated).


There will be alot of social consequences because of COVID. It's hard to tell if we are doing everything right now, and that'll only be truly known years from now when COVID no longer exists.


Indeed.

My best-case scenario is that this situation exposes the complete incompetence and in some cases evil of modern governments, people get sick of it and want change, and leads to some long-term positive changes (even if in the short term it worsens).

My worst-case scenario is that in a few years, Coronavirus (or at least the significant threat it poses) is gone, nobody gives a shit about changing anything, and we go right back to pre-pandemic conditions, just with more authoritarian laws slipped through during the pandemic that nobody cares to remove (or, if a state goes full authoritarian, can remove).
Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality
Meh: Labour, the EU
Nah: pointless discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit, Trump, both American parties, the Conservatives
I flop between "optimistic about the future" and "pessimistic about the future" every time I go on NSG.

(Taken 29/08/2020)
Political compass test:
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.05

8values thinks I'm a Libertarian Socialist.

Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

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