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Coronavirus Thread IV: Legends, Laments and Lockdowns

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Have you or anyone in your vincinity been affected by COVID-19?

I don't know anyone who has been diagnosed with COVID-19
208
46%
I know someone was diagnosed with COVID-19
96
21%
Someone very close to me was diagnosed with COVID-19
28
6%
I know someone who was hospitalized with COVID-19
39
9%
Someone very close to me was hospitalized with COVID-19
21
5%
I was diagnosed with COVID-19
14
3%
I was hospitalized with COVID-19
7
2%
I don't know/unsure/other
38
8%
 
Total votes : 451

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Estanglia
Minister
 
Posts: 3380
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Estanglia » Sun May 03, 2020 12:16 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Andsed wrote:Only for a temporary period. Death is permanent. Freedom cannot always be the top priority. Sometimes during an extreme crisis we have to look past them to take action to save lives.

Freedom must always be the top priority because life without freedom isn't worth living.


Life without freedom isn't worth living, therefore you're gonna end the lives of people living with freedom, which is presumably worth living.
Last edited by Estanglia on Sun May 03, 2020 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've been on here for more than two years? Shit.
Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality, the UN, the EU
Meh:
Nah: discrimination, justifying discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit

(Both taken 2nd May 2020)
Political compass test:
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Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.92

8 Values thinks I'm a Libertarian Socialist.

Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

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Nakena
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11163
Founded: May 06, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Nakena » Sun May 03, 2020 12:17 pm

Thermodolia wrote:What about “May the 4th be with you” for a title


But Comrade,

what if we would take some "contributions" of the community into account and...

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Last edited by Nakena on Sun May 03, 2020 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54685
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Sun May 03, 2020 12:17 pm

Estanglia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Freedom must always be the top priority because life without freedom isn't worth living.


Life without freedom isn't worth living, therefore you're gonna end the lives of people living with freedom, which is presumably worth living.

Freedom is nothing without responsibility.
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and the greatest is love."
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Pilipinas and Malaya
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1185
Founded: Jun 23, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Sun May 03, 2020 12:18 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Andsed wrote:Only for a temporary period. Death is permanent. Freedom cannot always be the top priority. Sometimes during an extreme crisis we have to look past them to take action to save lives.

Freedom must always be the top priority because life without freedom isn't worth living.


Yeah, but life without actually living is literally nothing. What’s the point of freedom when life is absent? Life without the freedoms for a while is better than not experiencing life at all.
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Post War America
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6354
Founded: Sep 05, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Post War America » Sun May 03, 2020 12:18 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Andsed wrote:Freedom sometimes has to be sacrificed to deal with a crisis. Avoiding taking action to avoid a pandemic for "freedom" is just bad governance.

Those that would give a little liberty for temporary safety deserve neither and lose both. Ben Franklin said. Was he wrong?


Absolutely, about a great many things.

Sacrificing liberty for safety is literally the definition of society.
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Andsed
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8322
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Andsed » Sun May 03, 2020 12:18 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Andsed wrote:Only for a temporary period. Death is permanent. Freedom cannot always be the top priority. Sometimes during an extreme crisis we have to look past them to take action to save lives.

Freedom must always be the top priority because life without freedom isn't worth living.

Stop being dramatic. This is not some 1984 thought police shit. This is temporary restrictions to prevent a full blown pandemic.
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Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17952
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun May 03, 2020 12:19 pm

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Freedom must always be the top priority because life without freedom isn't worth living.


Yeah, but life without actually living is literally nothing. What’s the point of freedom when life is absent? Life without the freedoms for a while is better than not experiencing life at all.

Will it kill the majority?
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12639
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun May 03, 2020 12:19 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
Yeah, but life without actually living is literally nothing. What’s the point of freedom when life is absent? Life without the freedoms for a while is better than not experiencing life at all.

Will it kill the majority?

How many did the last major worldwide unbridled flu pandemic kill?

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Andsed
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8322
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Andsed » Sun May 03, 2020 12:20 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
Yeah, but life without actually living is literally nothing. What’s the point of freedom when life is absent? Life without the freedoms for a while is better than not experiencing life at all.

Will it kill the majority?

No. But that does not mean we should let hundreds of thousands die just to uphold "freedom."
Hello I am Andsed welcome to my sig.


Amazing Andsed quotes:
Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
NationStates going from serious debates about homosexuality to jokes about Jesus a marijuana dealer in the span of one to two posts since November 13 2002.
Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
How does one outsource racism? Do you like get an Indian guy to call people and call them racial slurs?

LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12639
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun May 03, 2020 12:22 pm

Andsed wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Will it kill the majority?

No. But that does not mean we should let hundreds of thousands die just to uphold "freedom."

If we let it get to Spanish Flu levels, i.e. let it claim 1-6% of the world population (probably more in our case if we let it run rampant)... 90 to 540 million people die. The world calamity that ended with atom bombs in 1945 "only" killed 85 million people.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Sun May 03, 2020 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16408
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 03, 2020 12:25 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
San Lumen wrote:And restrictions on restaurants for example of kept to long will put them out of business because they can’t make any money

Is this what this is about? Being unable to go to Mcdonalds for your daily sustenance people?


Risking death from COVID to die from junk food.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
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The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26243
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sun May 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Is this what this is about? Being unable to go to Mcdonalds for your daily sustenance people?


Risking death from COVID to die from junk food.

McDonald's in the UK are going to try to start opening for deliveries only.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16408
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Post War America wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Those that would give a little liberty for temporary safety deserve neither and lose both. Ben Franklin said. Was he wrong?


Absolutely, about a great many things.

Sacrificing liberty for safety is literally the definition of society.


Sacrifice too much liberty for safety and there will be no safety from the government. Most governments in the past, present and likely in the future don't usually do something without the ulterior motive of expanding their power or protecting themselves, and already tyrants worldwide are using COVID to expand their power (Orban, dutuerte, etc).
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.


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Theodosiya
Minister
 
Posts: 3145
Founded: Oct 10, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Theodosiya » Sun May 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Luminesa wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Life without freedom isn't worth living, therefore you're gonna end the lives of people living with freedom, which is presumably worth living.

Freedom is nothing without responsibility.

I don't think GVH understand it, or would ever accept. What could be expected, given the way he had, how to explain it, his position throughout the threads?
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And the weak are ruled by the strong
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Nakena
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11163
Founded: May 06, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Nakena » Sun May 03, 2020 12:34 pm

Next poll is going to be this, but the wording and phrasing might need some big improvement:

Question: Do you know some people who have been infected

Answers:

I have been infected myself in the past or present
Members of my family have been infected in the past or present
There have been cases amongst friends and acquaintances of mine
No known cases in my social circles so far
My area is relatively little affected by Covid-19
I don't know/Not sure
Other (please share below)
Last edited by Nakena on Sun May 03, 2020 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20933
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun May 03, 2020 12:39 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Post War America wrote:
Absolutely, about a great many things.

Sacrificing liberty for safety is literally the definition of society.


Sacrifice too much liberty for safety and there will be no safety from the government. Most governments in the past, present and likely in the future don't usually do something without the ulterior motive of expanding their power or protecting themselves, and already tyrants worldwide are using COVID to expand their power (Orban, dutuerte, etc).

Yeah, but it’s GVH. Mate probably thinks speed limits are tyranny.
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If a majority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must enjoy the right of self-determination.
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Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16408
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 03, 2020 12:40 pm

Theodosiya wrote:
Luminesa wrote:Freedom is nothing without responsibility.

I don't think GVH understand it, or would ever accept. What could be expected, given the way he had, how to explain it, his position throughout the threads?


I think GVH is an Ancap, although I'm not sure. I think he or someone else said he is and if that is true, HOLY FUCK that's the definition of unchecked freedom without social responsibility.
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Sun May 03, 2020 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.


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Estanglia
Minister
 
Posts: 3380
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Estanglia » Sun May 03, 2020 12:40 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Post War America wrote:
Absolutely, about a great many things.

Sacrificing liberty for safety is literally the definition of society.


Sacrifice too much liberty for safety and there will be no safety from the government. Most governments in the past, present and likely in the future don't usually do something without the ulterior motive of expanding their power or protecting themselves, and already tyrants worldwide are using COVID to expand their power (Orban, dutuerte, etc).


Basically any organisation with power will attempt to extend it.

Sadly, there isn't really much we can do in the middle of this pandemic to deal with that. Protests could give the government an excuse to extend the measures using the argument that these protests endanger the public/spread the virus more, warranting further measures. Also, this is one of the few cases where the government(s) have legitimate reasons for these measures, rather than something baseless and trumped-up that is of no actual danger (or the danger is overstated).
I've been on here for more than two years? Shit.
Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality, the UN, the EU
Meh:
Nah: discrimination, justifying discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit

(Both taken 2nd May 2020)
Political compass test:
Economic Left/Right: -6.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.92

8 Values thinks I'm a Libertarian Socialist.

Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

Reploid Productions wrote:Two pages in... and everybody is pretty much agreeing that "This is fucking stupid!"? Dear gods, NSG agreeing on something?! I SPOTTED A UNICORN!!

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Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16408
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 03, 2020 12:41 pm

Kowani wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Sacrifice too much liberty for safety and there will be no safety from the government. Most governments in the past, present and likely in the future don't usually do something without the ulterior motive of expanding their power or protecting themselves, and already tyrants worldwide are using COVID to expand their power (Orban, dutuerte, etc).

Yeah, but it’s GVH. Mate probably thinks speed limits are tyranny.


GVH thinks Michael Bloomberg worked too hard to spare money for us lowly peasants. I find that funny since bloomberg could live without 90% of his money while we are struggling to get by.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.


Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/invites/conta ... ent=82zr2h

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Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36750
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Sun May 03, 2020 12:41 pm

Kowani wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Sacrifice too much liberty for safety and there will be no safety from the government. Most governments in the past, present and likely in the future don't usually do something without the ulterior motive of expanding their power or protecting themselves, and already tyrants worldwide are using COVID to expand their power (Orban, dutuerte, etc).

Yeah, but it’s GVH. Mate probably thinks speed limits are tyranny.


He has previously argued that blind people should be allowed to drive and preventing them was an unreasonable restriction on their freedom.
Strong opinions, lightly held.

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Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16408
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 03, 2020 12:42 pm

Estanglia wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Sacrifice too much liberty for safety and there will be no safety from the government. Most governments in the past, present and likely in the future don't usually do something without the ulterior motive of expanding their power or protecting themselves, and already tyrants worldwide are using COVID to expand their power (Orban, dutuerte, etc).


Basically any organisation with power will attempt to extend it.

Sadly, there isn't really much we can do in the middle of this pandemic to deal with that. Protests could give the government an excuse to extend the measures using the argument that these protests endanger the public/spread the virus more, warranting further measures. Also, this is one of the few cases where the government(s) have legitimate reasons for these measures, rather than something baseless and trumped-up that is of no actual danger (or the danger is overstated).


There will be alot of social consequences because of COVID. It's hard to tell if we are doing everything right now, and that'll only be truly known years from now when COVID no longer exists.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.


Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/invites/conta ... ent=82zr2h

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Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16408
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 03, 2020 12:43 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Kowani wrote:Yeah, but it’s GVH. Mate probably thinks speed limits are tyranny.


He has previously argued that blind people should be allowed to drive and preventing them was an unreasonable restriction on their freedom.


Once, I saw a commercial for the Sam Bernstein lawfirm in which Richard Bernstein was driving a bus. I didn't sleep at all that night because all I could think was oh dear God, Richard's blind and there were children on that bus.
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Sun May 03, 2020 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.


Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/invites/conta ... ent=82zr2h

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 139055
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Sun May 03, 2020 12:44 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Andsed wrote:Freedom sometimes has to be sacrificed to deal with a crisis. Avoiding taking action to avoid a pandemic for "freedom" is just bad governance.

Those that would give a little liberty for temporary safety deserve neither and lose both. Ben Franklin said. Was he wrong?

Yes.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Coughing Etiquette That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

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San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40223
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Sun May 03, 2020 12:46 pm

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Those that would give a little liberty for temporary safety deserve neither and lose both. Ben Franklin said. Was he wrong?

Yes.

Why?

User avatar
Estanglia
Minister
 
Posts: 3380
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Estanglia » Sun May 03, 2020 12:46 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Basically any organisation with power will attempt to extend it.

Sadly, there isn't really much we can do in the middle of this pandemic to deal with that. Protests could give the government an excuse to extend the measures using the argument that these protests endanger the public/spread the virus more, warranting further measures. Also, this is one of the few cases where the government(s) have legitimate reasons for these measures, rather than something baseless and trumped-up that is of no actual danger (or the danger is overstated).


There will be alot of social consequences because of COVID. It's hard to tell if we are doing everything right now, and that'll only be truly known years from now when COVID no longer exists.


Indeed.

My best-case scenario is that this situation exposes the complete incompetence and in some cases evil of modern governments, people get sick of it and want change, and leads to some long-term positive changes (even if in the short term it worsens).

My worst-case scenario is that in a few years, Coronavirus (or at least the significant threat it poses) is gone, nobody gives a shit about changing anything, and we go right back to pre-pandemic conditions, just with more authoritarian laws slipped through during the pandemic that nobody cares to remove (or, if a state goes full authoritarian, can remove).
I've been on here for more than two years? Shit.
Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality, the UN, the EU
Meh:
Nah: discrimination, justifying discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit

(Both taken 2nd May 2020)
Political compass test:
Economic Left/Right: -6.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.92

8 Values thinks I'm a Libertarian Socialist.

Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

Reploid Productions wrote:Two pages in... and everybody is pretty much agreeing that "This is fucking stupid!"? Dear gods, NSG agreeing on something?! I SPOTTED A UNICORN!!

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