Coronavirus Thread IV: Legends, Laments and Lockdowns

[Gormwood]

All your post proves is you are an anti Trumper which you have a right too be, and I have right as a Proud Republican to be a Pro Trumper for Making America Great Again according to my political views, not yours of course. If my support for President Trump makes me a Trump Cultist as I have been called on this site many times, I wear it with Pride and Honor. Peace over and out, take care and be safe during this virus crisis.

Hmmm? No. What makes you a cultist is the unquestioned support of everything he says and does.

My cousin for example says the bleech and disinfectant comments were stupid.

Notice how he's silent on Trump's "advice" to focus on mindless BOTHSAME apologism.

[Salandriagado]

Eh? Not really. How is your business going to survive if you, your staff and customers are made sick? Especially in a hot spot.

People tend to be rather stupid. For example, "I'm young and healthy so it won't bother me much if I get it"

Now if you are out in the middle of no where and or have no cases? There is an argument over closing.

And how is a business going to survive being shut down for months or only being able to have a certain capacity?

Pretty well all businesses survive only being able to have a certain capacity. The former is what the government is for.

And you probably won't have to. Even if there's no vaccine its likely humanity as a whole will build some resistance to it so things will go relatively back to normal. And even if they don't entertainment venues will adapt. Music, sport, and theater have all survived, and even thrived through apocalyptic scenarios they can survive this.

That kind of resistance would probably take many years.

What makes you say that? Stop making outlandish predictions based on literally no data.

And you're talking about directly risking people's lives in the name of your personal enjoyment.

so you'd rather have nightclubs, bars, sports, theatre and concerts become a thing of the past and you willing to live socially distancing for years?

In a straight choice between that and many millions of deaths? Yes, every fucking time. It's not even a hard decision.

It might be years before things go more or less back to normal. Right now these strict measures are meant to keep the hospitals from being completely unable to handle the magnitude of the pandemic, as its capacities grow, measures can be released in a staged capacity. I'm suspecting things will open a little bit sometime in June, if we're quite lucky a little more at the end of summer, and so on. It could be rough for a long time though, especially if we continue to botch our handling of it, which quite frankly is the real reason things got so bad in the first place.

but are we talking no large events and social distancing for years?

If we react sensibly and keep things under control? No, not at all. If we do something stupid like lifting lockdowns too early, yes. I've said it before, but if you don't want long-term restrictions, stop advocating for policies that would make them necessary.

[Salandriagado]

Are your events worth several dozen million lives lost in vain?

Stop saying this nonsense, there are not going to be several dozen million lives "lost in vain" because a bunch of young people go to a concert. The mortality rate from this virus is around 0.3% overall right now and deaths are intensely concentrated among people aged 60+.

Apart from how you're using rather optimistic figures, 0.3% of the world population is dozens of millions. Without effective controls, the virus will spread through the large majority of the population. Additionally, the death rate would spike massively if hospitals were overloaded, which they absolutely would be without said controls.

in any case, i don't know what you've been waiting for, but this shit is exactly what i've been waiting for

Antibodies that have the potential to cause even more serious damage in humans? No thanks

This is literally just misinformation. Stop it. Monoclonal antibodies are an extremely mature and well-understood technology.

You know what, fuck it, I can't be bothered to pull your low-effort shitpost apart, so let's make it simple: cut the bullshit and explain the mechanism by which you think these antibodies could cause damage, or admit that you're talking out of your arse.

You really don't seem to understand what will happen if this thing flares over what the hospital capacity is in a local area. There is a reason lockdowns are happening. People much smarter than you are making them happen.

I guess it's because they're so much smarter than me that they've been so wrong while I've been so right.

People who are old vulnerable should self isolate, period, with added protections to ensure they have access to essential items at reserved times. We should lock down nursing homes and hospitals and conserve PPE for use in those places. Let everyone else go about their business and burn this out via herd immunity. Fact is, unless you are already very sick or old this virus doesn't pose any significant threat to you and it only poses a threat to others who are vulnerable if you associate with them closely. You can read all the fear porn you want about one-off weird cases among younger people but they're statistically irrelevant overall.

This virus has been spreading exponentially for months before these lock-downs and you're just trying to excuse the massive economic devastation wrought on the working and middle class as justified even thought it was clearly misguided and totally devoid of any rational basis.

These lockdown measures will go down as the worst policy mistake ever made in the entirety of modern human history.

This is nice and all, but it is entirely contradicted by the available evidence. The lockdowns have worked, pretty well everywhere. Now, not reacting earlier (and thereby letting things get to the point where the lockdowns were necessary) was fucking stupid, but once things got to that point, lockdowns were literally the only option that didn't involve numbers of deaths orders of magnitude beyond the figures that you're so dishonestly extrapolating.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Hmmm? No. What makes you a cultist is the unquestioned support of everything he says and does.

My cousin for example says the bleech and disinfectant comments were stupid.

Notice how he's silent on Trump's "advice" to focus on mindless BOTHSAME apologism.

I am a Proud Republican and supporter of President Trump, and you are a Proud supporter of the Democrats and Anti Trump, their is no difference in this respect.

[Vetalia]

This is nice and all, but it is entirely contradicted by the available evidence. The lockdowns have worked, pretty well everywhere. Now, not reacting earlier (and thereby letting things get to the point where the lockdowns were necessary) was fucking stupid, but once things got to that point, lockdowns were literally the only option that didn't involve numbers of deaths orders of magnitude beyond the figures that you're so dishonestly extrapolating.

Do you have evidence of their effectiveness? I want to see the actual data to evaluate it and analyze it. I am interested to see it because it is something I may have not considered.

[Celritannia]

Notice how he's silent on Trump's "advice" to focus on mindless BOTHSAME apologism.

I am a Proud Republican and supporter of President Trump, and you are a Proud supporter of the Democrats, their is no difference between us.

Perhaps you should actually check whether people who are against Trump, are actually Democrats. Politics is not split so easily into 2 perfect boxes.
There are Republicans who dislike Trump, and Democrats who think he isn't too bad, but defending a leader to death is how dictatorships are formed.

Do I need to bring the Teddy quote back?

Actually, I will:

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

― Theodore Roosevelt

Have another one too:

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president."

― Theodore Roosevelt

[Vetalia]

Apart from how you're using rather optimistic figures, 0.3% of the world population is dozens of millions. Without effective controls, the virus will spread through the large majority of the population. Additionally, the death rate would spike massively if hospitals were overloaded, which they absolutely would be without said controls.

How do you propose to contain it in the developing world in which billions of people survive on a day-to-day basis and a lockdown means literal starvation? Or whose governments are incapable of implementing any kind of real strategy to combat the virus? What about the fact that it is now clear this virus has been spreading exponentially globally since at least December, if not earlier?

[Salandriagado]

In 200 years people will look back and praise the effect it had on combating climate change, and wonder why we were so retarded we needed a virus to start taking necessary measures. They will not care about the small businesses.

The problem is that it's not having an effect on climate change in and of itself. Mostly it's showing that individual efforts aren't even making a dent and what we need is major change to deal with the big polluters.

There are rather a lot of parallels to be drawn, honestly: both are problems that develop slowly at first, then increasingly quickly with time. Both get you accused of doommongering if you point out the dangers early, and of overreacting if you do react early and successfully stop them, and both become unignorably obvious problems right around the time that it's too late to prevent the problems.

[The of Japan]

This is nice and all, but it is entirely contradicted by the available evidence. The lockdowns have worked, pretty well everywhere. Now, not reacting earlier (and thereby letting things get to the point where the lockdowns were necessary) was fucking stupid, but once things got to that point, lockdowns were literally the only option that didn't involve numbers of deaths orders of magnitude beyond the figures that you're so dishonestly extrapolating.

Do you have evidence of their effectiveness? I want to see the actual data to evaluate it and analyze it. I am interested to see it because it is something I may have not considered.

Atleast for the 1918 spanish flu, a quick and decisive response was crucial to containing the virus. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-re ... u-pandemic

[Gormwood]

Notice how he's silent on Trump's "advice" to focus on mindless BOTHSAME apologism.

I am a Proud Republican and supporter of President Trump, and you are a Proud supporter of the Democrats and Anti Trump, their is no difference in this respect.

That's nice. Will you tell someone with coronavirus to drink cleaner because Trump said it would cure the virus?

[Vetalia]

Atleast for the 1918 spanish flu, a quick and decisive response was crucial to containing the virus. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-re ... u-pandemic

Sure, but the world was a very different place in 1918 vs. 2020. And on top of that, this virus has been spreading unimpeded for months prior to these lockdowns.

[Salandriagado]

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-05/mutant-coronavirus-has-emerged-more-contagious-than-original

Just great. A new strain has emerged that Is even more contagious than the original. This is never going to end at this rate.

Not quite: this is the strain that's responsible for the pandemic. The original they're comparing too didn't make it much out of China.

Also, generally speaking (and in this case), "more contagious" goes along with "less deadly", so it's not necessarily even a bad thing.

[The of Japan]

Atleast for the 1918 spanish flu, a quick and decisive response was crucial to containing the virus. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-re ... u-pandemic

Sure, but world was a very different place in 1918 vs. 2020. And on top of that, this virus has been spreading unimpeded for months prior to these lockdowns.

the spanish flu had been spreading for months largely unimpeded aswell, so that isnt unique to this pandemic.

[Vetalia]

the spanish flu had been spreading for months largely unimpeded aswell, so that isnt unique to this pandemic.

True, but the world wasn't anywhere near as interconnected as it is now, nor was it as populated.

[Salandriagado]

What happens when Australia reopens her borders to the world, the disease has become more aggressive, and we have no herd immunity. Did anyone think this through?

Keep quarantining people on entry from non-cleared countries until it has become irrelevant. Also: there's no reason to think that it will become more aggressive, and a whole lot of reason to think that it will get less aggressive.

[Salandriagado]

No, it was a failure of reading comprehension. You were reading projections for what would happen if we didn't successfully shut it down with a lockdown. We did successfully shut it down with a lockdown.

I kind of find that hard to believe given there is increasing evidence that backdates the first cases of this virus into late December.

I have no fucking clue what relevance you think that has, but you're wrong.

[Salandriagado]

This is nice and all, but it is entirely contradicted by the available evidence. The lockdowns have worked, pretty well everywhere. Now, not reacting earlier (and thereby letting things get to the point where the lockdowns were necessary) was fucking stupid, but once things got to that point, lockdowns were literally the only option that didn't involve numbers of deaths orders of magnitude beyond the figures that you're so dishonestly extrapolating.

Do you have evidence of their effectiveness? I want to see the actual data to evaluate it and analyze it. I am interested to see it because it is something I may have not considered.

Yes. Note that further evidence that has developed since then strongly points to the lockdowns being towards the optimistic end of the figures in there in terms of effectiveness.

[Rojava Free State]

Hmmm? No. What makes you a cultist is the unquestioned support of everything he says and does.

My cousin for example says the bleech and disinfectant comments were stupid.

Notice how he's silent on Trump's "advice" to focus on mindless BOTHSAME apologism.

Gauth I get annoyed with your bothsame shpeel alot, but this isn't even bothsame. This is Miami Shores actively supporting Trump. He thinks Trump is the best president ever (which is funny because Trump actively sucks ass). Miami Shores thinks that America could not be better than it is now (even though it has been on multiple occasions). Miami Shores will never criticize the God Emperor sadly.

[Rojava Free State]

Notice how he's silent on Trump's "advice" to focus on mindless BOTHSAME apologism.

I am a Proud Republican and supporter of President Trump, and you are a Proud supporter of the Democrats and Anti Trump, their is no difference in this respect.

The difference is that you support a guy who condemned thousands of Americans to their deaths. Trump is in the middle of his holodomor moment and you still love him.

[Salandriagado]

Apart from how you're using rather optimistic figures, 0.3% of the world population is dozens of millions. Without effective controls, the virus will spread through the large majority of the population. Additionally, the death rate would spike massively if hospitals were overloaded, which they absolutely would be without said controls.

How do you propose to contain it in the developing world in which billions of people survive on a day-to-day basis and a lockdown means literal starvation? Or whose governments are incapable of implementing any kind of real strategy to combat the virus?

By the developed world finally getting off its collective arse and providing the developing world with what it needs to get through this. And also to deal with the other three pandemics that we've been quietly ignoring in the developing world.

Also, a great many developing countries are doing noticably better than, say, the UK. The level of governmental competence needed to shut down borders is not high.

What about the fact that it is now clear this virus has been spreading exponentially globally since at least December, if not earlier?

That has literally no relevance at all.

[San Lumen]

the spanish flu had been spreading for months largely unimpeded aswell, so that isnt unique to this pandemic.

True, but the world wasn't anywhere near as interconnected as it is now, nor was it as populated.

Your plan is the only viable way forward but it doesn’t look like it’s going to be implemented anywhere

[Punainen Suomi]

Notice how he's silent on Trump's "advice" to focus on mindless BOTHSAME apologism.

Gauth I get annoyed with your bothsame shpeel alot, but this isn't even bothsame. This is Miami Shores actively supporting Trump. He thinks Trump is the best president ever (which is funny because Trump actively sucks ass). Miami Shores thinks that America could not be better than it is now (even though it has been on multiple occasions). Miami Shores will never criticize the God Emperor sadly.

"We shall squeeze you empty and then we shall fill you with ourselves."

That's what seems to happen to these people.

[Rojava Free State]

Gauth I get annoyed with your bothsame shpeel alot, but this isn't even bothsame. This is Miami Shores actively supporting Trump. He thinks Trump is the best president ever (which is funny because Trump actively sucks ass). Miami Shores thinks that America could not be better than it is now (even though it has been on multiple occasions). Miami Shores will never criticize the God Emperor sadly.

"We shall squeeze you empty and then we shall fill you with ourselves."

That's what seems to happen to these people.

The demon Trump possesses them.

[San Lumen]

https://modernfarmer.com/2020/05/meet-w ... -covid-19/

A llama from Belgium named Winter might be the key to a cure

[Gormwood]

Notice how he's silent on Trump's "advice" to focus on mindless BOTHSAME apologism.

Gauth I get annoyed with your bothsame shpeel alot, but this isn't even bothsame. This is Miami Shores actively supporting Trump. He thinks Trump is the best president ever (which is funny because Trump actively sucks ass). Miami Shores thinks that America could not be better than it is now (even though it has been on multiple occasions). Miami Shores will never criticize the God Emperor sadly.

Have you noticed his only reply to criticism of Trump is to chant the mantra about how he supports Trump, the other guy supports Democrats no matter their actual leanings and that both sides argue the same? Bothsame.