Coronavirus Thread IV: Legends, Laments and Lockdowns

[Rojava Free State]

Trump was so tough on xi that he claimed xi did a great job handling the virus until he needed a scapegoat for his own fuck ups.

That's called politeness. Prior to March, the media recognized this and complained that Trump was too mean to China.

Wow, Buenos Aires, you're kind of Italy.

Many Argentinians are from Italy, BTW.

Xi doesn't need politeness. He needs to be called the fuck out, whether the disingenous liberal media wants him to be called out or not.

[The Lone Alliance]

https://www.newsweek.com/japan-ends-cor ... wn-1506336

Japan's ending their state of Emergency.

[Bombadil]

Meanwhile..

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has warned of “unusual or aggressive” behavior in American rats as a consequence of more than two months of human lockdown for city-dwelling rodents who now find themselves unable to dine out on restaurant waste, street garbage and other food sources.

Last month, according to the national health body, dumpster-diving rats were observed resorting to eating their young in the wake of urban shutdowns.

“Community-wide closures have led to a decrease in food available to rodents, especially in dense commercial areas,” the CDC said in recently updated rodent-control guidelines.

“Some jurisdictions have reported an increase in rodent activity as rodents search for new sources of food. Environmental health and rodent control programs may see an increase in service requests related to rodents and reports of unusual or aggressive rodent behavior.”

Elevated levels of rat aggression has been observed in New York, where there are increased reports of cannibalism and infanticide, and New Orleans, where unusual rat behavior was caught on CCTV.

“I turn the corner, there’s about 30 rats at the corner, feasting on something in the middle of the street,” Bourbon street tour guide Charles Marsala told CBS News.

Complaints in Chicago have included reports of infestations in housing blocks as rodents seek new sources of food.

Some rodent experts predicted increased urban rat aggression.

“Many of these rats in our cities depend on their nightly food, which is the restaurants and hotels and bars and doughnut shops and everything that we consume on the go,” rodentologist Bobby Corrigan told The Washington Post.

[Blakk Metal]

That's called politeness. Prior to March, the media recognized this and complained that Trump was too mean to China.

The media still complains about Trump being too mean to China, it’s people on the internet who keep repeating Trump is "sucking up to Xi" without any foreign policy to back such a claim up

I didn't know Joe Biden and CNN were mere "people on the internet."

[Galloism]

The media still complains about Trump being too mean to China, it’s people on the internet who keep repeating Trump is "sucking up to Xi" without any foreign policy to back such a claim up

I didn't know Joe Biden and CNN were mere "people on the internet."

I mean, they are people on the internet.

You could say that about almost anyone.

[Greed and Death]

I didn't know Joe Biden and CNN were mere "people on the internet."

I mean, they are people on the internet.

You could say that about almost anyone.

Except some really only people who don't get on the intertubes

[North Vazdania]

That authoritarian moment when Police ticket people for using their right to freely assemble.

[Australian rePublic]

It appears to me that the places with the strictest lockdowns have the highest infections. From Victoria in Australia, to California in the USA

[San Lumen]

https://www.newsweek.com/japan-ends-coronavirus-emergency-850-deaths-no-lockdown-1506336

Japan's ending their state of Emergency.

I heard from a YouTuber I follow who lives in Tokyo lockdowns are against Japanese law

[Shrillland]

It appears to me that the places with the strictest lockdowns have the highest infections. From Victoria in Australia, to California in the USA

I wouldn't say that, Illinois' pretty strict and we only had about 1,200 cases and 37 deaths today, our best numbers in five weeks. Georgia, meanwhile, is seeing their trends going up, the only question there is whether or not it goes above expectations.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

It appears to me that the places with the strictest lockdowns have the highest infections. From Victoria in Australia, to California in the USA

Maybe you can say that the places have the highest infections so the have the strictest lockdowns

[Australian rePublic]

No, I meant the level of lockdown that we had 3 weeks ago. Pauline Hanson and Clive Palmer are suing QLD and WA for refusing to open their borders

Well of course I bloody don't. Remember I was calling for schools to be reopened, weeks ago? I had to go out today, I was very happy to see kids in large numbers walking home from school.

"So what would you do? Keep everyone in the south lockdown till summer?"

Why do you strawman so blatantly? Haven't you noticed how it makes other posters angry?

So, I repeat, what would you do?

[San Lumen]

https://apple.news/AuwBMJZNhQOaGMjGwnn1E9Q

Smaller Municipalities across America are facing massive budget shortfalls that could leave them completely bankrupt and could be the end of the community.

The town of Kimmswick, Missouri, relies heavily on the festivals it houses. If they have to cancel for the rest of the year it could mean the town doesn’t survive. These current measures can only be temporary unless the government wants to force communities large and small into financial ruin

The article is well worth the read

[Gormwood]

Meanwhile..

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has warned of “unusual or aggressive” behavior in American rats as a consequence of more than two months of human lockdown for city-dwelling rodents who now find themselves unable to dine out on restaurant waste, street garbage and other food sources.

Last month, according to the national health body, dumpster-diving rats were observed resorting to eating their young in the wake of urban shutdowns.

“Community-wide closures have led to a decrease in food available to rodents, especially in dense commercial areas,” the CDC said in recently updated rodent-control guidelines.

“Some jurisdictions have reported an increase in rodent activity as rodents search for new sources of food. Environmental health and rodent control programs may see an increase in service requests related to rodents and reports of unusual or aggressive rodent behavior.”

Elevated levels of rat aggression has been observed in New York, where there are increased reports of cannibalism and infanticide, and New Orleans, where unusual rat behavior was caught on CCTV.

“I turn the corner, there’s about 30 rats at the corner, feasting on something in the middle of the street,” Bourbon street tour guide Charles Marsala told CBS News.

Complaints in Chicago have included reports of infestations in housing blocks as rodents seek new sources of food.

Some rodent experts predicted increased urban rat aggression.

“Many of these rats in our cities depend on their nightly food, which is the restaurants and hotels and bars and doughnut shops and everything that we consume on the go,” rodentologist Bobby Corrigan told The Washington Post.

Maybe the rats will finally figure out they need to establish sustainable agriculture instead of depending on handouts. /s

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Well of course I bloody don't. Remember I was calling for schools to be reopened, weeks ago? I had to go out today, I was very happy to see kids in large numbers walking home from school.

"So what would you do? Keep everyone in the south lockdown till summer?"

Why do you strawman so blatantly? Haven't you noticed how it makes other posters angry?

So, I repeat, what would you do?

Well I acknowledge that re-opening schools is a bit of a gamble. So I wouldn't ease anything different, for two weeks, in case the schools experiment goes wrong. Keep trying to increase testing, particularly since now we have to test a lot of kids.

In the meantime though, any businesses still closed could submit safety plans, so two weeks from now any business that submitted an acceptable plan could re-open. Without inspection first! The plans would be published on a website, so customers, workers, or other industry workers who deal with the business can see for themselves whether the business is complying with its own plan. If not, and they consider it a serious breach, they could report the business and an inspector would be sent out. Businesses could be shut back down if an inspector finds they're in breach of their own plan.

Of course, any business that is operating with restrictions could also lodge a plan to ease or strengthen their safety conditions. Also I expect a lot of businesses would just take a template plan from their industry peak body, and adapt it to their floor plan. No problem with that. Unions might play a valuable role too, they've always been very strong on workplace safety.

No, you can't go to Queensland yet. Though really it's Queensland's call, I guess the NSW government has no way to stop you. How does 2 weeks strict quarantine when you come back fit into your holiday plans?

[San Lumen]

So, I repeat, what would you do?

Well I acknowledge that re-opening schools is a bit of a gamble. So I wouldn't ease anything different, for two weeks, in case the schools experiment goes wrong. Keep trying to increase testing, particularly since now we have to test a lot of kids.

In the meantime though, any businesses still closed could submit safety plans, so two weeks from now any business that submitted an acceptable plan could re-open. Without inspection first! The plans would be published on a website, so customers, workers, or other industry workers who deal with the business can see for themselves whether the business is complying with its own plan. If not, and they consider it a serious breach, they could report the business and an inspector would be sent out. Businesses could be shut back down if an inspector finds they're in breach of their own plan.

Of course, any business that is operating with restrictions could also lodge a plan to ease or strengthen their safety conditions. Also I expect a lot of businesses would just take a template plan from their industry peak body, and adapt it to their floor plan. No problem with that. Unions might play a valuable role too, they've always been very strong on workplace safety.

No, you can't go to Queensland yet. Though really it's Queensland's call, I guess the NSW government has no way to stop you. How does 2 weeks strict quarantine when you come back fit into your holiday plans?

And what if social distancing means they can’t make any money? They have to stay closed?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

https://apple.news/AuwBMJZNhQOaGMjGwnn1E9Q

Smaller Municipalities across America are facing massive budget shortfalls that could leave them completely bankrupt and could be the end of the community.

The end of a local government does not mean the end of the community there.

State governments can take over essential functions like running schools, and utilities. This might even be an opportunity to do something I've dreamed of (here AND there) which is get rid of local government altogether!

More sensibly, local governments that go bankrupt will have to be bailed out by State (and possibly) Federal money. It's a step towards my second-best scenario, which is local government still elected locally, but not having the power to tax. They would be funded Federally, State funding isn't practical because of emergencies like now. States don't have the money machine.

[Australian rePublic]

--EDITED-OUT--

[Australian rePublic]

So, I repeat, what would you do?

Well I acknowledge that re-opening schools is a bit of a gamble. So I wouldn't ease anything different, for two weeks, in case the schools experiment goes wrong. Keep trying to increase testing, particularly since now we have to test a lot of kids.

In the meantime though, any businesses still closed could submit safety plans, so two weeks from now any business that submitted an acceptable plan could re-open. Without inspection first! The plans would be published on a website, so customers, workers, or other industry workers who deal with the business can see for themselves whether the business is complying with its own plan. If not, and they consider it a serious breach, they could report the business and an inspector would be sent out. Businesses could be shut back down if an inspector finds they're in breach of their own plan.

Of course, any business that is operating with restrictions could also lodge a plan to ease or strengthen their safety conditions. Also I expect a lot of businesses would just take a template plan from their industry peak body, and adapt it to their floor plan. No problem with that. Unions might play a valuable role too, they've always been very strong on workplace safety.

No, you can't go to Queensland yet. Though really it's Queensland's call, I guess the NSW government has no way to stop you. How does 2 weeks strict quarantine when you come back fit into your holiday plans?

Isn't something like that the current plan? Though, except for every individual business being assessed individually, there's a blanket rule that applies to all of them

[San Lumen]

https://apple.news/AuwBMJZNhQOaGMjGwnn1E9Q

Smaller Municipalities across America are facing massive budget shortfalls that could leave them completely bankrupt and could be the end of the community.

The end of a local government does not mean the end of the community there.

State governments can take over essential functions like running schools, and utilities. This might even be an opportunity to do something I've dreamed of (here AND there) which is get rid of local government altogether!

More sensibly, local governments that go bankrupt will have to be bailed out by State (and possibly) Federal money. It's a step towards my second-best scenario, which is local government still elected locally, but not having the power to tax. They would be funded Federally, State funding isn't practical because of emergencies like now. States don't have the money machine.

What? Both stupid solutions.

A local government not being able to tax is ridiculous.

Why should these towns go bankrupt? We could just end these stupid work from home requirements and ban on gatherings and let individual businesses decide. I don’t think some of our leaders realize the damage they are causing

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Well I acknowledge that re-opening schools is a bit of a gamble. So I wouldn't ease anything different, for two weeks, in case the schools experiment goes wrong. Keep trying to increase testing, particularly since now we have to test a lot of kids.

In the meantime though, any businesses still closed could submit safety plans, so two weeks from now any business that submitted an acceptable plan could re-open. Without inspection first! The plans would be published on a website, so customers, workers, or other industry workers who deal with the business can see for themselves whether the business is complying with its own plan. If not, and they consider it a serious breach, they could report the business and an inspector would be sent out. Businesses could be shut back down if an inspector finds they're in breach of their own plan.

Of course, any business that is operating with restrictions could also lodge a plan to ease or strengthen their safety conditions. Also I expect a lot of businesses would just take a template plan from their industry peak body, and adapt it to their floor plan. No problem with that. Unions might play a valuable role too, they've always been very strong on workplace safety.

No, you can't go to Queensland yet. Though really it's Queensland's call, I guess the NSW government has no way to stop you. How does 2 weeks strict quarantine when you come back fit into your holiday plans?

And what if social distancing means they can’t make any money? They have to stay closed?

Staying alive as a business should be the standard, not "making money". That you think businesses have a right to keep making profits when everyone else is suffering, really does not sit well with you claiming to be center-left (ie a Democrat).

It's their business, it's their call. Bear in mind though that if they choose to stay closed they'll still get the benefit of rent reduction or rent holiday (which, depends on the relative financial soundness of their business, but also the entity owning their property). And I'd like government subsidies for them too (compensation for negative impacts of government policy). AND lesser rent relief and subsidies, for those whose business is seriously impacted by social distancing etc requirements.

Even tattoo parlours. Even they would get the government largess, though I don't like them. IF they can show a plan like "PPE for customer and staff, no tattoos above the ribs" I'd let them reopen with no subsidy (with a backlog of customers they will still be working at capacity of the tattooist). If their proposal is unacceptable though, no they can't reopen but they do get a subsidy. And if they submit an acceptable plan but are caught in violation of it, they get shut down with no subsidy.

[San Lumen]

And what if social distancing means they can’t make any money? They have to stay closed?

Staying alive as a business should be the standard, not "making money". That you think businesses have a right to keep making profits when everyone else is suffering, really does not sit well with you claiming to be center-left (ie a Democrat).

It's their business, it's their call. Bear in mind though that if they choose to stay closed they'll still get the benefit of rent reduction or rent holiday (which, depends on the relative financial soundness of their business, but also the entity owning their property). And I'd like government subsidies for them too (compensation for negative impacts of government policy). AND lesser rent relief and subsidies, for those whose business is seriously impacted by social distancing etc requirements.

Even tattoo parlours. Even they would get the government largess, though I don't like them. IF they can show a plan like "PPE for customer and staff, no tattoos above the ribs" I'd let them reopen with no subsidy (with a backlog of customers they will still be working at capacity of the tattooist). If their proposal is unacceptable though, no they can't reopen but they do get a subsidy. And if they submit an acceptable plan but are caught in violation of it, they get shut down with no subsidy.

And how will they pay their bills?

[Australian rePublic]

Well I acknowledge that re-opening schools is a bit of a gamble. So I wouldn't ease anything different, for two weeks, in case the schools experiment goes wrong. Keep trying to increase testing, particularly since now we have to test a lot of kids.

In the meantime though, any businesses still closed could submit safety plans, so two weeks from now any business that submitted an acceptable plan could re-open. Without inspection first! The plans would be published on a website, so customers, workers, or other industry workers who deal with the business can see for themselves whether the business is complying with its own plan. If not, and they consider it a serious breach, they could report the business and an inspector would be sent out. Businesses could be shut back down if an inspector finds they're in breach of their own plan.

Of course, any business that is operating with restrictions could also lodge a plan to ease or strengthen their safety conditions. Also I expect a lot of businesses would just take a template plan from their industry peak body, and adapt it to their floor plan. No problem with that. Unions might play a valuable role too, they've always been very strong on workplace safety.

No, you can't go to Queensland yet. Though really it's Queensland's call, I guess the NSW government has no way to stop you. How does 2 weeks strict quarantine when you come back fit into your holiday plans?

And what if social distancing means they can’t make any money? They have to stay closed?

Which is many restaurants are refusing to open till they're allowed 50. You can still get take away and sit on a beach or whatever. As Australia is coming into winter, the big losers will be tourism operators in northern Australia who rely on winter tourists coming from the south. In Northern Australia, now is prime tourism season, and mamy, many tourists come from the south, which is why they're advocating for the reopening of state borders.

I don't understand Gladys' (Gladys is the governor of NSW) hassling other states to open their borders, though. She could be instead trying to promote statewide tourism in her own state. Many NSW ski resorts are marketing themselves as "Don't go to QLD, come here instead", and Gladys should be supporting that cause. Considering that it's outside of peak tourism season in NSW (except, of coarse, for ski resorts). If people want to go on holidays, Gladys should be promoting holdaying in NSW out of season. If QLD don't open their borders till September, the northern half of the state will lose the peak of the tourism season. If it takes even longer, they'll lose the entire tourism season, and Anastasia (the governor of QLD) will lose the election on 31 October.

Long story short= tourism operators are the big losers of closed borders. That's why most Australians who support opening borders want the borders to open.

Then you have billionaire, mining magnate, Clive Palmer, suing the Western Australian government because he has an unfair disadvantage over West Australians, because he can't travel to Western Australia in order to protect his own personal business interests

[Nobel Hobos 2]

The end of a local government does not mean the end of the community there.

State governments can take over essential functions like running schools, and utilities. This might even be an opportunity to do something I've dreamed of (here AND there) which is get rid of local government altogether!

More sensibly, local governments that go bankrupt will have to be bailed out by State (and possibly) Federal money. It's a step towards my second-best scenario, which is local government still elected locally, but not having the power to tax. They would be funded Federally, State funding isn't practical because of emergencies like now. States don't have the money machine.

What? Both stupid solutions.

A local government not being able to tax is ridiculous.

People having to pay on a local level, for services delivered locally, perpetuates income inequality. It's why poor areas have either shitty infrastructure like water pipes and road, OR they have shitty schools. They can't afford both.

Are you SURE you're a Democrat?

Why should these towns go bankrupt? We could just end these stupid work from home requirements and ban on gatherings and let individual businesses decide. I don’t think some of our leaders realize the damage they are causing

Work from home is an absolutely brilliant solution, for those whose work is virtual already. That's a lot of IT, but also office workers.
There's going to be a whole lot more working from home after this is over. Whether you like it or not. Whether government likes it or not!

[San Lumen]

And what if social distancing means they can’t make any money? They have to stay closed?

Which is many restaurants are refusing to open till they're allowed 50. You can still get take away and sit on a beach or whatever. As Australia is coming into winter, the big losers will be tourism operators in northern Australia who rely on winter tourists coming from the south. In Northern Australia, now is prime tourism season, and mamy, many tourists come from the south, which is why they're advocating for the reopening of state borders.

I don't understand Gladys' (Gladys is the governor of NSW) hassling other states to open their borders, though. She could be instead trying to promote statewide tourism in her own state. Many NSW ski resorts are marketing themselves as "Don't go to QLD, come here instead", and Gladys should be supporting that cause. Considering that it's outside of peak tourism season in NSW (except, of coarse, for ski resorts). If people want to go on holidays, Gladys should be promoting holdaying in NSW out of season. If QLD don't open their borders till September, the northern half of the state will lose the peak of the tourism season. If it takes even longer, they'll lose the entire tourism season, and Anastasia (the governor of QLD) will lose the election on 31 October.

Long story short= tourism operators are the big losers of closed borders. That's why most Australians who support opening borders want the borders to open.

Then you have billionaire, mining magnate, Clive Palmer, suing the Western Australian government because he has an unfair disadvantage over West Australians, because he can't travel to Western Australia in order to protect his own personal business interests

Basically proving my point that many elected officials don’t see the damage they are causing