What Would It Take for You to Vote for Biden?

[Godular]

As as of right now, I’m not sure who I will vote for.

Election Day is months away and with the coronavirus taking everyone for a spin I think its best to wait. I’ll see how things are around September-October and decide.

Honestly, this.

So damn much can happen in half a year.

[Dylar]

2. Honestly, I'd say claiming all black people want to have guns and then not backing it up is even worse stereotyping. ~60-70% of African Americans are pro-gun control.

However, the thing is is that they're ok with guns, but they're pro gun control. Shockingly, you can be both. Who would've thunk it?

Except that I didn't claim that all black people are pro-gun. Nice try.

Oh I know you can be both, I just think it's stupid. Especially when gun control advocates say "Oh I don't mind people owning guns, but this scary black rifle needs to be banned/we need to close the gunshow loophole/we need more background checks" because it not only demonstrates a lack of knowledge relating to firearms and firearm laws, it also demonstrates that they are unwilling to do their own research and will follow the hearsay of any politician or news organization who also have no knowledge of firearms and firearm laws.

[New haven america]

>Implying that's a positive of the US

Freedom is important, I don’t see how anyone except die-hard authoritarians can deny that

The economic "Freedom" the US peddles is mostly destructive and leads to such bullshit as people being able to make >$1,000,000,000 a year while getting to pay less taxes than those who make <$50,000 a year and allowing for a small group of very rich to have total control over the socioeconomic fate of the nation.

Did you know Elon Musk committed a crime recently? Stock manipulation. Did you know Elon Musk isn't going to jail for tanking his company's stocks by over 100 pts in a single day?

[New haven america]

2. Honestly, I'd say claiming all black people want to have guns and then not backing it up is even worse stereotyping. ~60-70% of African Americans are pro-gun control.

However, the thing is is that they're ok with guns, but they're pro gun control. Shockingly, you can be both. Who would've thunk it?

1. Except that I didn't claim that all black people are pro-gun. Nice try.

2. Oh I know you can be both, I just think it's stupid. Especially when gun control advocates say "Oh I don't mind people owning guns, but this scary black rifle needs to be banned/we need to close the gunshow loophole/we need more background checks" because it not only demonstrates a lack of knowledge relating to firearms and firearm laws, it also demonstrates that they are unwilling to do their own research and will follow the hearsay of any politician or news organization who also have no knowledge of firearms and firearm laws.

1. You claim that the left-wing was taking away right gun rights from poor simple black folk who just wanna defend themselves. Not only did you stereotype black people, you stereotyped left-wingers as well.
2. Canada and Switzerland are both pro-guns and pro-gun control and they have some of the lowest gun crime rates in the world. So no, it ain't stupid, it works and it's how the US should operate as well.

[Nazeroth]

1. Except that I didn't claim that all black people are pro-gun. Nice try.

2. Oh I know you can be both, I just think it's stupid. Especially when gun control advocates say "Oh I don't mind people owning guns, but this scary black rifle needs to be banned/we need to close the gunshow loophole/we need more background checks" because it not only demonstrates a lack of knowledge relating to firearms and firearm laws, it also demonstrates that they are unwilling to do their own research and will follow the hearsay of any politician or news organization who also have no knowledge of firearms and firearm laws.

1. You claim that the left-wing was taking away right gun rights from poor simple black folk who just wanna defend themselves. Not only did you stereotype black people, you stereotyped left-wingers as well.
2. Canada and Switzerland are both pro-guns and pro-gun control and they have some of the lowest gun crime rates in the world. So no, it ain't stupid, it works and it's how the US should operate as well.

Canads is not pro gun

You dont get to call yourself “pro gun” while your leader does a sweeping weapon ban overnight

Lol your so uneducated about firearms it’s really impressive

[New haven america]

1. You claim that the left-wing was taking away right gun rights from poor simple black folk who just wanna defend themselves. Not only did you stereotype black people, you stereotyped left-wingers as well.
2. Canada and Switzerland are both pro-guns and pro-gun control and they have some of the lowest gun crime rates in the world. So no, it ain't stupid, it works and it's how the US should operate as well.

1. Canads is not pro gun

2. You dont get to call yourself “pro gun” while your leader does a sweeping weapon ban overnight

3. Lol your so uneducated about firearms it’s really impressive

1. It's spelt Canada
2. Because there was a mass shooting, and actually most Canadians are against the ban, even left-wing Canadians.
3. Ok, I don't get how talking about gun control in other nations means someone doesn't understand firearms. Would someone please explain this baffling and random leap in logic?

[Dylar]

1. Except that I didn't claim that all black people are pro-gun. Nice try.

2. Oh I know you can be both, I just think it's stupid. Especially when gun control advocates say "Oh I don't mind people owning guns, but this scary black rifle needs to be banned/we need to close the gunshow loophole/we need more background checks" because it not only demonstrates a lack of knowledge relating to firearms and firearm laws, it also demonstrates that they are unwilling to do their own research and will follow the hearsay of any politician or news organization who also have no knowledge of firearms and firearm laws.

1. You claim that the left-wing was taking away right gun rights from poor simple black folk who just wanna defend themselves. Not only did you stereotype black people, you stereotype left-wingers as well.
2. Canada and Switzerland are both pro-guns and pro-gun control and they have some of the lowest gun crime rates in the world. So no, it ain't stupid, it's how the US should operate as well.

1.Did I call them "poor" or "simple" No I didn't. And do you know of any left-wing party in the U.S. that doesn't want to restrict the citizens' 2nd Amendment rights in the name of "National security"?
2. The U.S is not Canada nor Switzerland. In fact it has more than 7 times the population than both countries combined. So of course a country with 328 million people is going to have more crime than a country with 37 million or a measly 8 million. Hell, I wouldn't even call Canada "pro-gun" when their leader can ban "the scary black assault weapon" overnight even though the serial killing shithead didn't use one.

[Nazeroth]

1. Canads is not pro gun

2. You dont get to call yourself “pro gun” while your leader does a sweeping weapon ban overnight

3. Lol your so uneducated about firearms it’s really impressive

1. It's spelt Canada
2. Because there was a mass shooting, and actually most Canadians are against the ban, even left-wing Canadians.
3. Ok, I don't get how talking about gun control in other nations means someone doesn't understand firearms. Would someone please explain this baffling and random leap in logic?

“Most canadians are against the ban”

Then why did justin blackface do it?

[New haven america]

1. You claim that the left-wing was taking away right gun rights from poor simple black folk who just wanna defend themselves. Not only did you stereotype black people, you stereotype left-wingers as well.
2. Canada and Switzerland are both pro-guns and pro-gun control and they have some of the lowest gun crime rates in the world. So no, it ain't stupid, it's how the US should operate as well.

1.Did I call them "poor" or "simple" No I didn't. 2. And do you know of any left-wing party in the U.S. that doesn't want to restrict the citizens' 2nd Amendment rights in the name of "National security"?
3. The U.S is not Canada nor Switzerland. In fact it has more than 7 times the population than both countries combined. So of course a country with 328 million people is going to have more crime than a country with 37 million or a measly 8 million. 4. Hell, I wouldn't even call Canada "pro-gun" when their leader can ban "the scary black assault weapon" overnight even though the serial killing shithead didn't use one.

1. Doesn't matter, it's how you were painting them.
2. No, and that's a good thing, because even Switzerland which is honestly more gun loving than the US has stricter gun control and gun crime rates. You can still have your pwecious shooty shoots, but you shouldn't be allowed to have them unregulated.
3. Population numbers don't mean jack shit when talking about this. It's so weird how every argument about regulating dangerous things in the US always boils down to "Nuh-uh, the US has too many people!", as if that's an argument with any actual value.
4. Even Left-Wing Canadians are against the ban. It's funny how the idea of "Don't judge a country by its leader" goes right out the window when it's most convenient
for your argument.

[New haven america]

1. It's spelt Canada
2. Because there was a mass shooting, and actually most Canadians are against the ban, even left-wing Canadians.
3. Ok, I don't get how talking about gun control in other nations means someone doesn't understand firearms. Would someone please explain this baffling and random leap in logic?

“Most canadians are against the ban”

Then why did justin blackface do it?

It's funny how the idea of "Don't judge a country by its leader" gets thrown out the window as soon as you find it convenient to your argument.

Also, most Canadians hate Trudeau, but they hate Right-Wing Conservatives even more.

Also also, you still haven't explained you shitty leap in logic.

[Nazeroth]

1.Did I call them "poor" or "simple" No I didn't. 2. And do you know of any left-wing party in the U.S. that doesn't want to restrict the citizens' 2nd Amendment rights in the name of "National security"?
3. The U.S is not Canada nor Switzerland. In fact it has more than 7 times the population than both countries combined. So of course a country with 328 million people is going to have more crime than a country with 37 million or a measly 8 million. 4. Hell, I wouldn't even call Canada "pro-gun" when their leader can ban "the scary black assault weapon" overnight even though the serial killing shithead didn't use one.

1. Doesn't matter, it's how you were painting them.
2. No, and that's a good thing, because even Switzerland which is honestly more gun loving than the US has stricter gun control and gun crime rates. You can still have your pwecious shooty shoots, but you shouldn't be allowed to have them unregulated.
3. Population numbers don't mean jack shit when talking about this. It's so weird how every argument about regulating dangerous things in the US always boils down to "Nuh-uh, the US has too many people!", as if that's an argument with any actual value.
4. Even Left-Wing Canadians are against the ban. It's funny how the idea of "Don't judge a country by its leader" goes right out the window when it's most convenient
for your argument.

We have this pesky thing that gets in the way of totalitarians like yourself, its called the constitution.

[Nazeroth]

“Most canadians are against the ban”

Then why did justin blackface do it?

It's funny how the idea of "Don't judge a country by its leader" gets thrown out the window as soon as you find it convenient to your argument.

Also, most Canadians hate Trudeau, but they hate Right-Wing Conservatives even more.

Also also, you still haven't explained you shitty leap in logic.

Canadians are subjects not citizens, at the whim of their leader who can exercise dictatorial power as he sees fit when he sees fit.

He practically banned just about every firearm over night and they wont do shit because they are sheep and cucks.

[New haven america]

1. Doesn't matter, it's how you were painting them.
2. No, and that's a good thing, because even Switzerland which is honestly more gun loving than the US has stricter gun control and gun crime rates. You can still have your pwecious shooty shoots, but you shouldn't be allowed to have them unregulated.
3. Population numbers don't mean jack shit when talking about this. It's so weird how every argument about regulating dangerous things in the US always boils down to "Nuh-uh, the US has too many people!", as if that's an argument with any actual value.
4. Even Left-Wing Canadians are against the ban. It's funny how the idea of "Don't judge a country by its leader" goes right out the window when it's most convenient
for your argument.

We have this pesky thing that gets in the way of totalitarians like yourself, its called the constitution.

We get it, you learned the word totalitarian. Next you should learn what it actually means.

Did you know Stalin, probably the most famous totalitarian was totally into forced conscription and firearms training? And had state funded and regulated shooting ranges where people could go and practice anytime they weren't working. And hunting was still legal eso ownership of things like shotguns was pretty normal.

By calling me a totalitarian your saying I'm ok with gun ownership.

[Nazeroth]

We have this pesky thing that gets in the way of totalitarians like yourself, its called the constitution.

We get it, you learned the word totalitarian. Next you should learn what it actually means.

Did you know Stalin, probably the most famous totalitarian was totally into forced conscription and firearms training? And had state funded and regulated shooting ranges where people could go and practice anytime they weren't working. And hunting was still legal eso ownership of things like shotguns was pretty normal.

By calling me a totalitarian your saying I'm ok with gun ownership.

Those people were not free with their firearms, they were only allowed acess to them when convinient and really, shotguns? They should be so greatful they could hunt

They were never allowed freedom with firearms in anyway that could threaten stalins power

[Aureumterra]

Also, most Canadians hate Trudeau, but they hate Right-Wing Conservatives even more.

Right wing conservatives are so hated, they gained 26 seats!

[New haven america]

Also, most Canadians hate Trudeau, but they hate Right-Wing Conservatives even more.

Right wing conservatives are so hated, they gained 26 seats!

And yet they're still the minority and not in charge in the government.

Gee, I wonder why?

[Nazeroth]

Right wing conservatives are so hated, they gained 26 seats!

And yet they're still the minority and not in charge in the government.

Gee, I wonder why?

Becaus liberals wanted a dictator who dresses in black face more

“Please mr state, boot on neck harder”

[Sylh Alanor]

Tfw people are talking about your country and don't know anything about your country.

[Dylar]

1.Did I call them "poor" or "simple" No I didn't. 2. And do you know of any left-wing party in the U.S. that doesn't want to restrict the citizens' 2nd Amendment rights in the name of "National security"?
3. The U.S is not Canada nor Switzerland. In fact it has more than 7 times the population than both countries combined. So of course a country with 328 million people is going to have more crime than a country with 37 million or a measly 8 million. 4. Hell, I wouldn't even call Canada "pro-gun" when their leader can ban "the scary black assault weapon" overnight even though the serial killing shithead didn't use one.

1. Doesn't matter, it's how you were painting them.
2. a. No, and that's a good thing, b. because even Switzerland which is honestly more gun loving than the US has stricter gun control and gun crime rates. You can still have your pwecious shooty shoots, but you shouldn't be allowed to have them unregulated.
3. Population numbers don't mean jack shit when talking about this. It's so weird how every argument about regulating dangerous things in the US always boils down to "Nuh-uh, the US has too many people!", as if that's an argument with any actual value.
4. Even Left-Wing Canadians are against the ban.
5.It's funny how the idea of "Don't judge a country by its leader" goes right out the window when it's most convenient
for your argument.

1. Uh-huh. Care to tell me where? I just said that the left wants to limit black Americans rights to bear arms. Though, I will admit I should've rather said "the left wants to limit every American's right to bear arms"
2. a. It's actually a bad thing, but then again I'm talking to an authoritarian, so I shouldn't be surprised. b. Ah yes Switzerland, the country that requires it's citizens to apply for a gun license to carry anything from a rifle to a handgun is more pro-gun than America where you only need a handgun license to carry out of the house.
3. Population does mean jack shit while talking about this. Higher population means higher potential for crime.
4. Then why did the Canadian government allow it to happen? Surely they are representatives of the people?
5. It's funny how you assume I believe that statement. Pretty stereotypical of conservatives, don'tcha think?

Anyway this discussion is getting really off-topic, so I'd recommend taking it to the gun control forum if you want to continue

[New haven america]

1. Doesn't matter, it's how you were painting them.
2. a. No, and that's a good thing, b. because even Switzerland which is honestly more gun loving than the US has stricter gun control and gun crime rates. You can still have your pwecious shooty shoots, but you shouldn't be allowed to have them unregulated.
3. Population numbers don't mean jack shit when talking about this. It's so weird how every argument about regulating dangerous things in the US always boils down to "Nuh-uh, the US has too many people!", as if that's an argument with any actual value.
4. Even Left-Wing Canadians are against the ban.
5.It's funny how the idea of "Don't judge a country by its leader" goes right out the window when it's most convenient
for your argument.

1. Uh-huh. Care to tell me where? I just said that the left wants to limit black Americans rights to bear arms. Though, I will admit I should've rather said "the left wants to limit every American's right to bear arms"
2. It's actually a bad thing, but then again I'm talking to an authoritarian, so I shouldn't be surprised. 3. Ah yes Switzerland, the country that requires it's citizens to apply for a gun license to carry anything from a rifle to a handgun is more pro-gun than America where you only need a handgun license to carry out of the house.
3. Population does mean jack shit while talking about this. Higher population means higher potential for crime.
4. Then why did the Canadian government allow it to happen? Surely they are representatives of the people?
5. It's funny how you assume I believe that statement. Pretty stereotypical of conservatives, don'tcha think?

6. Anyway this discussion is getting really off-topic, so I'd recommend taking it to the gun control forum if you want to continue

1. You're original post on the subject.
2. lol, authoritarian, haven't heard that one yet. You're wrong, but please, keep guessing, I'm sure one of you will figure out what I am eventually.
3. Again, you can be pro-guns while also being pro-gun control. By percentage it has more gun owners than the US (~30% compared to the US' ~22%).
4. Because again, the government=/=the people.
5. That's nice.
6. No thank you, don't feel like getting endlessly screamed at by hardcore gun owners.

[SangMar]

1. Doesn't matter, it's how you were painting them.
2. a. No, and that's a good thing, b. because even Switzerland which is honestly more gun loving than the US has stricter gun control and gun crime rates. You can still have your pwecious shooty shoots, but you shouldn't be allowed to have them unregulated.
3. Population numbers don't mean jack shit when talking about this. It's so weird how every argument about regulating dangerous things in the US always boils down to "Nuh-uh, the US has too many people!", as if that's an argument with any actual value.
4. Even Left-Wing Canadians are against the ban.
5.It's funny how the idea of "Don't judge a country by its leader" goes right out the window when it's most convenient
for your argument.

1. Uh-huh. Care to tell me where? I just said that the left wants to limit black Americans rights to bear arms. Though, I will admit I should've rather said "the left wants to limit every American's right to bear arms"
2. a. It's actually a bad thing, but then again I'm talking to an authoritarian, so I shouldn't be surprised. b. Ah yes Switzerland, the country that requires it's citizens to apply for a gun license to carry anything from a rifle to a handgun is more pro-gun than America where you only need a handgun license to carry out of the house.
3. Population does mean jack shit while talking about this. Higher population means higher potential for crime.
4. Then why did the Canadian government allow it to happen? Surely they are representatives of the people?
5. It's funny how you assume I believe that statement. Pretty stereotypical of conservatives, don'tcha think?

Anyway this discussion is getting really off-topic, so I'd recommend taking it to the gun control forum if you want to continue

Your point on America being more pro-gun than Switzerland isn’t entirely true though - or false for that matter. I mean, change the statement: Switzerland is more pro-gun than New York City. Or hell, New York State for that matter. Whereas, if you were to compare Switzerland to say, Arizona or Texas, then there’s a significant change in the answer. Yet Arizona, New York City And Texas have one thing in common - they’re all in America. It varies where you live in the nation.

[Mirjt]

1. Uh-huh. Care to tell me where? I just said that the left wants to limit black Americans rights to bear arms. Though, I will admit I should've rather said "the left wants to limit every American's right to bear arms"
2. a. It's actually a bad thing, but then again I'm talking to an authoritarian, so I shouldn't be surprised. b. Ah yes Switzerland, the country that requires it's citizens to apply for a gun license to carry anything from a rifle to a handgun is more pro-gun than America where you only need a handgun license to carry out of the house.
3. Population does mean jack shit while talking about this. Higher population means higher potential for crime.
4. Then why did the Canadian government allow it to happen? Surely they are representatives of the people?
5. It's funny how you assume I believe that statement. Pretty stereotypical of conservatives, don'tcha think?

Anyway this discussion is getting really off-topic, so I'd recommend taking it to the gun control forum if you want to continue

Your point on America being more pro-gun than Switzerland isn’t entirely true though - or false for that matter. I mean, change the statement: Switzerland is more pro-gun than New York City. Or hell, New York State for that matter. Whereas, if you were to compare Switzerland to say, Arizona or Texas, then there’s a significant change in the answer. Yet Arizona, New York City And Texas have one thing in common - they’re all in America. It varies where you live in the nation.

I love your signature. You accurately state that not all communists are tankies. I wish more people realized that tankies are only those whom support the regimes of Stalin, the Soviet Union, Mao (though I would argue that not all maoists actually supported what Mao did in power), the People's Republic of China, North Korea (under the regimes of the Kims), Fidel Castro (though Cuba is not nearly as bad as the U.S. would have people believe and in some ways are better than the U.S.), and so on. Most modern day communists (and even most international communists during the Cold War) are against the totalitarian regime of the Soviet Union and their allies.

[Nazeroth]

Your point on America being more pro-gun than Switzerland isn’t entirely true though - or false for that matter. I mean, change the statement: Switzerland is more pro-gun than New York City. Or hell, New York State for that matter. Whereas, if you were to compare Switzerland to say, Arizona or Texas, then there’s a significant change in the answer. Yet Arizona, New York City And Texas have one thing in common - they’re all in America. It varies where you live in the nation.

I love your signature. You accurately state that not all communists are tankies. I wish more people realized that tankies are only those whom support the regimes of Stalin, the Soviet Union, Mao (though I would argue that not all maoists actually supported what Mao did in power), the People's Republic of China, North Korea (under the regimes of the Kims), Fidel Castro (though Cuba is not nearly as bad as the U.S. would have people believe and in some ways are better than the U.S.), and so on. Most modern day communists (and even most international communists during the Cold War) are against the totalitarian regime of the Soviet Union and their allies.

The “mostly group” sure did a shit job at stopping them

[Mirjt]

As for the gun control debate that got started by some people arguing that gun rights would be fundamental for Biden to win their vote. I think that this topic is far more complex that just it is wrong/right to take away guns. However, I would have to write a four page essay to accurately capture the arguments from all the various sides, to state my position, to debunk false or poor arguments from all sides, and to explore the nuance of the issue, so I will not be doing that here. If you believe the gun debate is relevant, or worth having (even if relevant or irrelevant) please feel free to continue, but remember to be respectful to one another and not derail other discussion on this thread.

[Dylar]

1. Uh-huh. Care to tell me where? I just said that the left wants to limit black Americans rights to bear arms. Though, I will admit I should've rather said "the left wants to limit every American's right to bear arms"
2. It's actually a bad thing, but then again I'm talking to an authoritarian, so I shouldn't be surprised. 3. Ah yes Switzerland, the country that requires it's citizens to apply for a gun license to carry anything from a rifle to a handgun is more pro-gun than America where you only need a handgun license to carry out of the house.
3. Population does mean jack shit while talking about this. Higher population means higher potential for crime.
4. Then why did the Canadian government allow it to happen? Surely they are representatives of the people?
5. It's funny how you assume I believe that statement. Pretty stereotypical of conservatives, don'tcha think?

6. Anyway this discussion is getting really off-topic, so I'd recommend taking it to the gun control forum if you want to continue

1. You're original post on the subject.
2. lol, authoritarian, haven't heard that one yet. Your wrong, but please, keep guessing, I'm sure one of you will figure out what I am eventually.
3. Again, you can be pro-guns while also being pro-gun control. By percentage it has more gun owners than the US (~30% compared to the US' ~22%).
4. Because again, the government=/=the people.
5. That's nice.
6. No thank you, don't feel like getting endlessly screamed at by hardcore gun owners.

1. The original post: "And most opposition to letting Black Americans defend themselves with firearms has come from left-wing liberals." Not once in that post said that all blacks are pro-gun, not once in that post did I say they were "poor" and "simple," ergo, you're grasping at straws.
2. Is there another name for someone that wants to limit the rights of the individual for the security of the state that I haven't heard yet?
3. Ah, you know what I see the problem now. You're conflating pro-gun with gun-ownership when the two are not the same. A person who owns a bolt action rifle and says that the AR-15 and other rifles like that need to be banned is not pro-gun. That's just a fudd.
4. And yet the definition of a member of Parliament is "the representative of the voters to a parliament." And the voters are...the people.
6. Then I suggest this discussion ends here.