NationStates

Brunswick-upon-Raritan wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Ah fair enough. Though I’d still rather a trade protectionist than not

I would rather have fair trade agreements that put environmental safety, workers rights, and domestic employment ahead of multinational corporations and their profits.

As would I. Which is why I’m voting Green this time around

New haven america wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:I really don’t care if the court is liberal or not. It’s pretty good as it stands anyway

So you're ok with the death of any and all progressive bills that get passed for the next 30-50 years?

Well I’m not a progressive liberal so...

Thermodolia wrote:

Glamour wrote:
I am aware of that. But the question is still valid, in that if Trump wins in 2020, the Supreme Court will have a conservative majority under a Trump presidency, and if another Trump appointee is confirmed because one of the liberal justices dies, then as I said, because they are lifetime appointees, a majority of two will be irreversible for a generation.

Do you believe that should be the case, and especially under a Trump presidency? P.S. This is an entirely domestic US issue (the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court) and I am not a US citizen, so I don't particularly care. I am just curious.

I really don’t care if the court is liberal or not. It’s pretty good as it stands anyway

That is because there is, and has been for a long, long time, a swing deciding vote.

Thermodolia wrote:

Brunswick-upon-Raritan wrote:
I would rather have fair trade agreements that put environmental safety, workers rights, and domestic employment ahead of multinational corporations and their profits.

As would I. Which is why I’m voting Green this time around

As long as you don’t throw a swing-state that’s fine.

Thermodolia wrote:

New haven america wrote:So you're ok with the death of any and all progressive bills that get passed for the next 30-50 years?

Well I’m not a progressive liberal so...

Ok, so you're fine with the death of left-wing policies in the nation, good to know.

Glamour wrote:

Brunswick-upon-Raritan wrote:
TPP was a counterpoint to Chinese expansionism, it’s not the same as free trade.

Also, Brexit was trade nationalism, and as a result the UK could join the TPP and trade with the US (incorpirating NAFTA), while avoiding the potential fate of the EU, where becoming a Chinese puppet because of the Belt and Road initiative is a possibility. Therefore, trade nationalism in today's world encourages free trade. We have the technology.

My apologies, I meant USMCA, not NAFTA.

Brunswick-upon-Raritan wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:As would I. Which is why I’m voting Green this time around

As long as you don’t throw a swing-state that’s fine.

I live in Georgia. Besides even if I did live in a swing state it wouldn’t matter because my vote is about what I want and not what others want

New haven america wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Well I’m not a progressive liberal so...

Ok, so you're fine with the death of left-wing policies in the nation, good to know.

Progressive social issues being crushed isn’t the end of all left wing policies. Besides I really don’t care what a liberal like yourself thinks about really anything

Thermodolia wrote:

Brunswick-upon-Raritan wrote:
As long as you don’t throw a swing-state that’s fine.

I live in Georgia. Besides even if I did live in a swing state it wouldn’t matter because my vote is about what I want and not what others want

So you are voting for the Green party but you have no issue with a two-justice majority for the conservatives in the Supreme Court for a generation, starting under a second-term Trump presidency this year?

How does that make any sense?

Thermodolia wrote:

New haven america wrote:Ok, so you're fine with the death of left-wing policies in the nation, good to know.

Progressive social issues being crushed isn’t the end of all left wing policies. Besides I really don’t care what a liberal like yourself thinks about really anything

lol, I'm not a liberal, so get a new buzzword or go home.

4 years and you can't come up with a new buzzword or insult, how sad. I thought liberals were supposed to be the most uncreative political group?

New haven america wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Well I’m not a progressive liberal so...

Ok, so you're fine with the death of left-wing policies in the nation, good to know.

I don’t think having a contrary opinion = the death of left-wing policies in the nation. How do you know he won’t support the Communication Workers’ strike next year? I don’t think the future of left-wing policies in America should hinge on guilting everyone who’s not already onboard with your party into... I don’t know. A state of enlightened guilt? It seems so futile.

Thermodolia wrote:

Wizlandia wrote:Because pretty much all economists agree free trade is good. Considering both the economic and geopolitical benefits of the TPP, Trump pulling out it will be one of his worst legacies as president.

Free trade is absolute garbage that only hurts the working class while exploiting poorer nations and their workers. It’s a bunch of neoliberal bullshit

Yeah, no.

Glamour wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:I live in Georgia. Besides even if I did live in a swing state it wouldn’t matter because my vote is about what I want and not what others want

So you are voting for the Green party but you have no issue with a two-justice majority for the conservatives in the Supreme Court for a generation, starting under a second-term Trump presidency this year?

How does that make any sense?

I’m more socially conservative than not. So I really don’t care if the court is more conservative

Thermodolia wrote:

Brunswick-upon-Raritan wrote:
As long as you don’t throw a swing-state that’s fine.

I live in Georgia. Besides even if I did live in a swing state it wouldn’t matter because my vote is about what I want and not what others want

I don’t really agree with that, I believe people should vote for group (class) interests not personal interests.

New haven america wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:

Progressive social issues being crushed isn’t the end of all left wing policies. Besides I really don’t care what a liberal like yourself thinks about really anything

lol, I'm not a liberal, so get a new buzzword or go home.

4 years and you can't come up with a new buzzword or insult, how sad. I thought liberals were supposed to be the most uncreative political group?

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck....

Brunswick-upon-Raritan wrote:

New haven america wrote:Ok, so you're fine with the death of left-wing policies in the nation, good to know.

I don’t think having a contrary opinion = the death of left-wing policies in the nation. How do you know he won’t support the Communication Workers’ strike next year? I don’t think the future of left-wing policies in America should hinge on guilting everyone who’s not already onboard with your party into... I don’t know. A state of enlightened guilt? It seems so futile.

Didn't you know that by not voting for Biden you're voting for Trump?

Thermodolia wrote:

New haven america wrote:lol, I'm not a liberal, so get a new buzzword or go home.

4 years and you can't come up with a new buzzword or insult, how sad. I thought liberals were supposed to be the most uncreative political group?

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck....

Then it's a horse, come on Therm this is kindergarten stuff, give me something harder!

Brunswick-upon-Raritan wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:I live in Georgia. Besides even if I did live in a swing state it wouldn’t matter because my vote is about what I want and not what others want

I don’t really agree with that, I believe people should vote for group (class) interests not personal interests.

I’ll agree with that. Though I don’t believe that voting for Biden is in the interest of any class besides the rich and Academics

Brunswick-upon-Raritan wrote:

New haven america wrote:Ok, so you're fine with the death of left-wing policies in the nation, good to know.

I don’t think having a contrary opinion = the death of left-wing policies in the nation. How do you know he won’t support the Communication Workers’ strike next year? I don’t think the future of left-wing policies in America should hinge on guilting everyone who’s not already onboard with your party into... I don’t know. A state of enlightened guilt? It seems so futile.

I’ll support any and all strikes. Hell I advocated for the TSA and ATC workers to strike during the Federal shutdown. I just refuse to be bullied into voting for someone who is practically against everything I believe in to stop someone else who’s also practically against everything I believe in

Thermodolia wrote:

New haven america wrote:lol, I'm not a liberal, so get a new buzzword or go home.

4 years and you can't come up with a new buzzword or insult, how sad. I thought liberals were supposed to be the most uncreative political group?

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck....

I think you may be confused. Anyone who has taken the political compass test can see that the x-axis is left versus right (economic), while the y-axis is liberal versus authoritarian.

If you are fine with a conservative majority on the Supreme Court and a Trump presidency, you will be living in a right-wing authoritarian state, potentially irreversibly.

Just because someone has told you that liberalism is not the exact same thing as leftism (which is true, because they exist along different axes) does not mean that a right-wing authoritarian state is going to help you if you are voting for the Green party because you are a leftist. Quite the opposite.

Thermodolia wrote:

New haven america wrote:lol, I'm not a liberal, so get a new buzzword or go home.

4 years and you can't come up with a new buzzword or insult, how sad. I thought liberals were supposed to be the most uncreative political group?

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck....

lol, if you went by that logic you'd be calling me a progressive or socialist. Or from a right-wing POV, a left-wing authoritarian much like yourself.

Again, more uncreative shit that's been repeated 1,000 times. Get new material please, you're boring me.

Brunswick-upon-Raritan wrote:

New haven america wrote:Ok, so you're fine with the death of left-wing policies in the nation, good to know.

I don’t think having a contrary opinion = the death of left-wing policies in the nation. How do you know he won’t support the Communication Workers’ strike next year? I don’t think the future of left-wing policies in America should hinge on guilting everyone who’s not already onboard with your party into... I don’t know. A state of enlightened guilt? It seems so futile.

But they just said they're ok with stacking the SCoTUS 7 Conservative-2 Liberal/Progressive.

If you didn't know, the SCoTUS is responsible for interpreting the Constitution and policies that make it past Congress, and if that's the case then the right-wing conservatives of the nation will have unprecedented political power to shape the nation in away way they wish as well as killing any liberal/progressive/left-wing in general policy that makes it through Congress.

If you're fine with the SCoTUS being stacked in such a way, then you're fine with killing any left-wing policy and neutering any left-wing movement for the next 50 years. There's no way around this no matter what kind of mental gymnastics you preform.

New haven america wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:You mean the election that was clearly rigged in Hillary’s favor? 1. Also he had quite a bit of broad support of the ages groups in several states. 2. The young didn’t watch the news that blasted Sanders, the older voters did.

1. He did not.
2. No, the young spent most of their times on sites like Reddit that were posting daily pro-Sanders propaganda saying he'd be a shoo in and get a landslide victory the likes of which the nation has never seen.

And then he didn't because the youth vote didn't go out and vote, which lost him several important elections like ST, as well as having an idiot campaign team spending most of their time attacking most of the other candidates and earning him no mutual favor there. But unlike a lot of his supports he took the L like an adult and said "Eh, better luck next time, vote for my friend Joe to keep Trump from getting a second term."

In this case he has no one else to blame for his loss but himself, and he admits that. It's his hardcore supporters who still don't get that.

That is actually one of the things that made me upset with progressives in the media. Bernie told us that he would endorse whoever won the nomination from the beginning, and he is keeping his word, that is not a bad thing, but every feels so betrayed. Bernie is Blue No Matter Who, that does not mean you have to be (even if you supported Bernie). Bernie considers Biden a friend, well being in Congress so long they probably have gotten to know each other at least a little, and calling other politicians friends is good political rhetoric. People got mad that Bernie was not fighting enough that he was being too nice, they argued he was buying into the angry Bernie Bro myth (which is a myth, Bernie had support from people of all backgrounds, it just leaned in the favor of young people in general, but it was not especially male or white or violent or angry). I considered Bernie being a nice guy to be a positive, it ultimately does not matter because I care about policy over personality (I would elect the most disagreeable person ever if I could be assured they would pass the policies I want), but I actually mostly enjoyed Bernie's personality. I also agree that he did a poor campaign, but even poor campaigns can win if they have broad support and aren't being unfairly disadvantaged. The DNC went out of their way to discredit Bernie Sanders, Andrew Yang, Tulsi Gabbard, and Marriane Williamson (whom I think is a good person with some good ideas and who ran because she really thought she could make a difference, not so she could sell books, but is completely unqualified for the Presidency, especially due to her anti-vaxxer stance).

For reference, I still plan to vote for Howie Hawkins because Biden has not given me anything, and if he does not care about my vote enough to try and appeal to me, then I will use my vote to send a message. This is not wasting my vote, it is investing my vote in future elections after 2020. Though if Biden will give something of substance to leftists I will consider voting for him. Though it does not matter, I live in Maryland, a safe blue state, it is almost certain that all 10 of Maryland electoral votes is going to Biden, regardless if I vote for Biden, vote third party/independent, just not vote, or any other option really. However, voting third party might scare the Maryland Democrats to consider appealing to leftists if they don't want to be voted out in the next election (assuming they aren't voted out this time, I really hope Steny Hoyer loses his reelection, I already voted for his progressive challenger MaKayala Wilkes).

Glamour wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck....

I think you may be confused. Anyone who has taken the political compass test can see that the x-axis is left versus right (economic), while the y-axis is liberal versus authoritarian.

I’m not confused at all. Quite the contrary.

The political compass is a horribly stupid thing.

If you are fine with a conservative majority on the Supreme Court and a Trump presidency, you will be living in a right-wing authoritarian state, potentially irreversibly.

I never said I’d be fine with a Trump Presidency, I just said that I didn’t care as much about a conservative court. Besides conservative doesn’t automatically equal right wing.

Just because someone has told you that liberalism is not the exact same thing as leftism (which is true, because they exist along different axes) does not mean that a right-wing authoritarian state is going to help you if you are voting for the Green party because you are a leftist. Quite the opposite.

NHA is a liberal who thinks that they can bully me into voting for Biden because the court will be filled with ebil conservatives.

It’s not working. And I’m only voting green because they are the only real option left and Trump has done to many stupid things over the pandemic for me to even consider voting for him

New haven america wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck....

lol, if you went by that logic you'd be calling me a progressive or socialist. Or from a right-wing POV, a left-wing authoritarian much like yourself.

Again, more uncreative shit that's been repeated 1,000 times. Get new material please, you're boring me.

You’ve never said anything that’s remotely close to either of those