What Would It Take for You to Vote for Biden?

[Blargoblarg]

This entire situation pisses me off to no end. It's like 2016! We have to choose between 2 of the absolute worse candidates both sides have to offer. The Dems have the nerve to claim they support marginalized peoples, yet they have Biden, who wasn't ashamed of his racism and openly made the dumbest comments about black people.

"If you don't vote for me, you ain't black"
"Unlike the black community...the hispanic community is incredibly diverse"

Excuse me? This is the man you Democrats want me to support? Oh, and let's not even START on his sexual assault allegations

Then you have Kamala Harris. Let's ignore the fact that she said she believed Biden's accusers...until she was picked to be his VP. And doesn't she have a horrible record on crime? SMH

The entire Democratic Party runs on identity politics. Neither of their candidates care for the average American. They just want power.

THEN there's the Republican Party. From how they blocked the stimulus checks and their continuous simping of Donald Trump, I have to say they suck too. An asteroid could be about to hit Earth and the Republicans would filibuster a bill that would save everyone.

You don't have to choose one of those two. You can vote for a third party candidate instead. I'm planning to vote for Green Party candidate Howie Hawkins. I'm pleased to see that he got on the ballot in my state.

[Kowani]

You really think a third party has a chance?

Probably not, precisely because people are employing and acting according to this same argument. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, and one you're not morally obligated to participate in fulfilling.

And again, how do you stop that in the current political climate?

By changing your political behavior and encouraging other people to do the same. The two dominant parties don't seem very inclined to shake up the institutions that enable them to maintain their duopoly so we have to do it.

Well.
No. A FPTP system will lead to a two-party status quo by a matter of mathematics.

[New haven america]

This entire situation pisses me off to no end. It's like 2016! We have to choose between 2 of the absolute worse candidates both sides have to offer. The Dems have the nerve to claim they support marginalized peoples, yet they have Biden, who wasn't ashamed of his racism and openly made the dumbest comments about black people.

"If you don't vote for me, you ain't black"
"Unlike the black community...the hispanic community is incredibly diverse"

Excuse me? This is the man you Democrats want me to support? Oh, and let's not even START on his sexual assault allegations

Then you have Kamala Harris. Let's ignore the fact that she said she believed Biden's accusers...until she was picked to be his VP. And doesn't she have a horrible record on crime? SMH

The entire Democratic Party runs on identity politics. Neither of their candidates care for the average American. They just want power.

THEN there's the Republican Party. From how they blocked the stimulus checks and their continuous simping of Donald Trump, I have to say they suck too. An asteroid could be about to hit Earth and the Republicans would filibuster a bill that would save everyone.

You don't have to choose one of those two. You can vote for a third party candidate instead. I'm planning to vote for Green Party candidate Howie Hawkins. I'm pleased to see that he got on the ballot in my state.

We get it, you're not voting for Biden or Trump, and that the only way you'd consider voting for either main party was if Lenin himself rose from his mausoleum in the Red Square and personally endorsed one of the candidates.

This isn't the 2020 election thread, knock off the spam, it got old 2 months ago.

[Blargoblarg]

You don't have to choose one of those two. You can vote for a third party candidate instead. I'm planning to vote for Green Party candidate Howie Hawkins. I'm pleased to see that he got on the ballot in my state.

We get it, you're not voting for Biden or Trump, and that the only way you'd consider voting for either main party was if Lenin himself rose from his mausoleum in the Red Square and personally endorsed one of the candidates.

This isn't the 2020 election thread, knock off the spam, it got old 2 months ago.

This thread is about the 2020 election, and particularly about people on the left in the U.S. who aren't currently planning to vote for Biden. I get the feeling that you and a lot of other posters in this thread never actually read the OP:

This topic is directed toward U.S. Leftists (edit: and Progressives) whom are currently not planning to vote for Biden.

For me:

I do not support Biden or his neo-liberal to deeply conservative viewpoints and policies. I do not trust Biden with important issues. (That said, I don't despise Joe Biden because I believe in loving every single human being). I currently plan to vote for Howie Hawkins (and down ticket for progressive democrats, independents, and third party candidates) in November; though that may not matter because I live in Maryland, a safe blue state, which will probably cast all 10 of its electoral votes for Joe Biden. I am, however, willing to risk a Trump second term to show the Democratic establishment that they need to earn my vote (they don't just get my vote because they aren't the worse option). I already consider Bernie Sanders policies to be a moderate compromise (his policies were social democracy, which is a moderate compromise between socialism and capitalism) so I am hesitant to compromise further; that said I think (or hope) that the left has more power right now, and so offer Biden this deal: I will consider voting for Biden, if he meets all the following conditions (this is the minimum price for my vote):

1. He must adopt at least 90% of each of the following plans published by Bernie Sanders:
A. Medicare for All
B. Green New Deal
C. Ending Mass Incarceration
D. Any 3 Economics Plans (Biden may choose from a list of plans published by Bernie Sanders)

2. He must publish his own plan for improving U.S. Democracy (with ideas like ranked choice voting, multi-member districts, campaign finance reform, public campaign funding, support and protection for non-electoral politics, etc...).

3. He must allow leftists at least 45% influence in the DNC.

4. He must allow leftists to choose his Vice President (we will choose a woman so Biden may keep his campaign promise of having a woman Vice President).

5. He must allow and endorse Bernie Sanders (and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, and Ilhan Omar, and Ayanna Presley, and Rashida Talib, and all the other Progressives in Congress) to handle future Democratic responses to the Covid-19 pandemic.

6. He must, on video, sign a pledge (which will be copied and distributed to anyone who wants a copy) that states that if he does not attempt to fulfill each of the above campaign promises during his first 18 months in office, then he will resign after the 2022 midterm elections.

Note: I am okay with adding other stipulations to the signed pledge, such as swearing on the Christian Bible, or making the pledge a full-fledged legal document that can be used to sue Biden should he break it.

Note: I am not even really sure Biden is aware he needs to win over leftists (or independents, or typically non-voters), he probably thinks that the leftists have no where to go but the Democratic Party and he thinks he already has the votes of the Democrats. In his mind he probably thinks he needs to win over Republicans (which is nearly impossible) and swing voters.

[Cisairse]

This entire situation pisses me off to no end. It's like 2016! We have to choose between 2 of the absolute worse candidates both sides have to offer. The Dems have the nerve to claim they support marginalized peoples, yet they have Biden, who wasn't ashamed of his racism and openly made the dumbest comments about black people.

"If you don't vote for me, you ain't black"
"Unlike the black community...the hispanic community is incredibly diverse"

Excuse me? This is the man you Democrats want me to support? Oh, and let's not even START on his sexual assault allegations

Then you have Kamala Harris. Let's ignore the fact that she said she believed Biden's accusers...until she was picked to be his VP. And doesn't she have a horrible record on crime? SMH

The entire Democratic Party runs on identity politics. Neither of their candidates care for the average American. They just want power.

THEN there's the Republican Party. From how they blocked the stimulus checks and their continuous simping of Donald Trump, I have to say they suck too. An asteroid could be about to hit Earth and the Republicans would filibuster a bill that would save everyone.

Biden's comments are literally correct

[Alternamerica]

Biden got a 75/100 scorecard from Greenpeace (Trump got 0), supports public option (not M4A but a huge step in the right direction), and $15/min wage + student loan reforms. I don't support him as a person since I feel he's too "out" mentally and Harris is a weird pick during BLM and police shootings, but those policies are enough to get me on board.

If history taught us anything, it's that Democrats easily bend with enough pressure. Sure a lot of Democrats will pretend police brutality, environmental collapse, and crumbling social welfare (prerequisites of a 1st world nation) aren't issues anymore because orange man will no longer say mean things on TV during their expensive brunch, but there are many who will still put their feet to the fire. You can't do that with Republicans.

[Celritannia]

You really think a third party has a chance?

Probably not, precisely because people are employing and acting according to this same argument. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, and one you're not morally obligated to participate in fulfilling.

And again, how do you stop that in the current political climate?

By changing your political behavior and encouraging other people to do the same. The two dominant parties don't seem very inclined to shake up the institutions that enable them to maintain their duopoly so we have to do it.

This is all wishful thinking so close to election day, and quite wishful thinking as a whole.

If you want political change then the voting system needs to change, followed by the break up of the 2 major parties.
The first one is the easier of the 2 solutions. Along with this, there should be a limit on campaign spending, and the immediate removal of lobbyists.

But until we have these things in place, we have to vote tactically and vote for the lesser of the 2 evils.

[Fahran]

This is all wishful thinking so close to election day, and quite wishful thinking as a whole.

I'm well aware that a lot of people are going to vote for Trump or Biden, and that we're probably going to elect Trump or Biden. However, if enough people refuse to participate and cast votes for third parties, we may impact local elections, clear some thresholds, and put some cracks in the political duopoly.

If you want political change then the voting system needs to change, followed by the break up of the 2 major parties.

The Republicans and Democrats have no vested interest in implementing reforms that will loosen their grip on power, largely because doing so would severely impact their ability to win future elections. In the absence to meaningful reforms being implemented, the only solution is for the electorate to change its voting and political behavior.

The first one is the easier of the 2 solutions. Along with this, there should be a limit on campaign spending, and the immediate removal of lobbyists.

You'd probably need to repeal the 1st Amendment to address campaign spending at this point.

But until we have these things in place, we have to vote tactically and vote for the lesser of the 2 evils.

You can vote tactically. I'm not going to do so. Because, honestly, neither of the two popular candidates is altogether great.

[Diopolis]

This is all wishful thinking so close to election day, and quite wishful thinking as a whole.

I'm well aware that a lot of people are going to vote for Trump or Biden, and that we're probably going to elect Trump or Biden. However, if enough people refuse to participate and cast votes for third parties, we may impact local elections, clear some thresholds, and put some cracks in the political duopoly.

If you want political change then the voting system needs to change, followed by the break up of the 2 major parties.

The Republicans and Democrats have no vested interest in implementing reforms that will loosen their grip on power, largely because doing so would severely impact their ability to win future elections. In the absence to meaningful reforms being implemented, the only solution is for the electorate to change its voting and political behavior.

The first one is the easier of the 2 solutions. Along with this, there should be a limit on campaign spending, and the immediate removal of lobbyists.

You'd probably need to repeal the 1st Amendment to address campaign spending at this point.

But until we have these things in place, we have to vote tactically and vote for the lesser of the 2 evils.

You can vote tactically. I'm not going to do so. Because, honestly, neither of the two popular candidates is altogether great.

You could just vote straight R and not have to worry about a thing.

[Uiiop]

Biden got a 75/100 scorecard from Greenpeace (Trump got 0), supports public option (not M4A but a huge step in the right direction), and $15/min wage + student loan reforms. I don't support him as a person since I feel he's too "out" mentally and Harris is a weird pick during BLM and police shootings, but those policies are enough to get me on board.

If history taught us anything, it's that Democrats easily bend with enough pressure. Sure a lot of Democrats will pretend police brutality, environmental collapse, and crumbling social welfare (prerequisites of a 1st world nation) aren't issues anymore because orange man will no longer say mean things on TV during their expensive brunch, but there are many who will still put their feet to the fire. You can't do that with Republicans.

My issues about him are purely about trust not what his platforms look on paper tbh.

Obama way of thinking prevented the stuff from his platform from getting done and Biden was the one they restrained for going too far with that line.
I'm voting for him bit i don't blame the doubters.

[Celritannia]

This is all wishful thinking so close to election day, and quite wishful thinking as a whole.

I'm well aware that a lot of people are going to vote for Trump or Biden, and that we're probably going to elect Trump or Biden. However, if enough people refuse to participate and cast votes for third parties, we may impact local elections, clear some thresholds, and put some cracks in the political duopoly.

If you want political change then the voting system needs to change, followed by the break up of the 2 major parties.

The Republicans and Democrats have no vested interest in implementing reforms that will loosen their grip on power, largely because doing so would severely impact their ability to win future elections. In the absence to meaningful reforms being implemented, the only solution is for the electorate to change its voting and political behavior.

The first one is the easier of the 2 solutions. Along with this, there should be a limit on campaign spending, and the immediate removal of lobbyists.

You'd probably need to repeal the 1st Amendment to address campaign spending at this point.

But until we have these things in place, we have to vote tactically and vote for the lesser of the 2 evils.

You can vote tactically. I'm not going to do so. Because, honestly, neither of the two popular candidates is altogether great.

I would, if I was a US citizen.

While my personal politics leans to the green party of America, I would prefer Donald Trump is out of office, since he has caused more problems than enough.

While I don't like Biden, he at least listens to expert advice and does not pretend to know everything. Not only that, he was VP for 8 years, not to mention a long political life, making him the more suitable candidate.

So your scenario of getting people not to vote for the 2 main parties won't work until there is significant change to the US political system. Simply voting third party will not alter the whole process.

[Asardia]

This entire situation pisses me off to no end. It's like 2016! We have to choose between 2 of the absolute worse candidates both sides have to offer. The Dems have the nerve to claim they support marginalized peoples, yet they have Biden, who wasn't ashamed of his racism and openly made the dumbest comments about black people.

"If you don't vote for me, you ain't black"
"Unlike the black community...the hispanic community is incredibly diverse"

Excuse me? This is the man you Democrats want me to support? Oh, and let's not even START on his sexual assault allegations

Then you have Kamala Harris. Let's ignore the fact that she said she believed Biden's accusers...until she was picked to be his VP. And doesn't she have a horrible record on crime? SMH

The entire Democratic Party runs on identity politics. Neither of their candidates care for the average American. They just want power.

THEN there's the Republican Party. From how they blocked the stimulus checks and their continuous simping of Donald Trump, I have to say they suck too. An asteroid could be about to hit Earth and the Republicans would filibuster a bill that would save everyone.

Biden's comments are literally correct

Explain please

[Borderlands of Rojava]

I really fucking hate this election. I would like to say this is the most disgraceful election ever but I said that in 2016 and I'll probably be saying it again in 2024 when it's dickbag-in-law Peter J. Lucido vs incumbent Joe "I know many of you are still out of jobs and there's been more police shootings and riots but honestly I'm trying" Biden.

[Nazeroth]

I really fucking hate this election. I would like to say this is the most disgraceful election ever but I said that in 2016 and I'll probably be saying it again in 2024 when it's dickbag-in-law Peter J. Lucido vs incumbent Joe "I know many of you are still out of jobs and there's been more police shootings and riots but honestly I'm trying" Biden.

Assuming Biden is going to win based on what? enough terror to convince Republicans and Libertarians to stay home?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

I really fucking hate this election. I would like to say this is the most disgraceful election ever but I said that in 2016 and I'll probably be saying it again in 2024 when it's dickbag-in-law Peter J. Lucido vs incumbent Joe "I know many of you are still out of jobs and there's been more police shootings and riots but honestly I'm trying" Biden.

Assuming Biden is going to win based on what? enough terror to convince Republicans and Libertarians to stay home?

More like the fact trump's trailing behind him by several points in the polls and his only attacks on Biden are "he's senile" and "he's a communist." Could trump win? Maybe. Will he win again? Probably not.

[Nazeroth]

Assuming Biden is going to win based on what? enough terror to convince Republicans and Libertarians to stay home?

More like the fact trump's trailing behind him by several points in the polls and his only attacks on Biden are "he's senile" and "he's a communist." Could trump win? Maybe. Will he win again? Probably not.

several points based on whos polls and within what margin of error?

[Nuroblav]

I really fucking hate this election. I would like to say this is the most disgraceful election ever but I said that in 2016 and I'll probably be saying it again in 2024 when it's dickbag-in-law Peter J. Lucido vs incumbent Joe "I know many of you are still out of jobs and there's been more police shootings and riots but honestly I'm trying" Biden.

And I thought my country's election last year was bad...

[Celritannia]

More like the fact trump's trailing behind him by several points in the polls and his only attacks on Biden are "he's senile" and "he's a communist." Could trump win? Maybe. Will he win again? Probably not.

several points based on whos polls and within what margin of error?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-53657174

[Cordel One]

I really fucking hate this election. I would like to say this is the most disgraceful election ever but I said that in 2016 and I'll probably be saying it again in 2024 when it's dickbag-in-law Peter J. Lucido vs incumbent Joe "I know many of you are still out of jobs and there's been more police shootings and riots but honestly I'm trying" Biden.

And I thought my country's election last year was bad...

At least you have something of a leftist movement, Corbyn would have been blacklisted and tossed into some relatively insignificant party here.

[Celritannia]

And I thought my country's election last year was bad...

At least you have something of a leftist movement, Corbyn would have been blacklisted and tossed into some relatively insignificant party here.

Keir Starmer would still be too left for the US.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

At least you have something of a leftist movement, Corbyn would have been blacklisted and tossed into some relatively insignificant party here.

Keir Starmer would still be too left for the US.

We live in a society where Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are somehow communists.

I think sometime in the last 20 years, America caught a case of the big dumb and we haven't recovered, like we're a long hauler lmfao.

[Dominioan]

Keir Starmer would still be too left for the US.

We live in a society where Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are somehow communists.

I think sometime in the last 20 years, America caught a case of the big dumb and we haven't recovered, like we're a long hauler lmfao.

If you believe in a slightly tax increase or workers rights, your communist.

[Cordel One]

Keir Starmer would still be too left for the US.

We live in a society where Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are somehow communists.

I think sometime in the last 20 years, America caught a case of the big dumb and we haven't recovered, like we're a long hauler lmfao.

20 years is optimistic, I think we caught it sometime in the 1950s

[Cisairse]

Biden's comments are literally correct

Explain please

Polling has shown that black Trump supporters are statistical noise, and the 2nd comment was about views on immigration specifically, where polling shows blacks as a relatively homogenous electorate compared to hispanics which have very heterogeneous beliefs

[Cisairse]

More like the fact trump's trailing behind him by several points in the polls and his only attacks on Biden are "he's senile" and "he's a communist." Could trump win? Maybe. Will he win again? Probably not.

several points based on whos polls and within what margin of error?

You literally could have just googled it.