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What Would It Take for You to Vote for Biden?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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How do you plan to vote? (Someone asked for this poll)

Biden (because I support Biden)
82
7%
Biden (because he's the lesser of two evils)
216
19%
Trump (for some reason)
227
20%
Third Party (or Independent)
100
9%
Write-In (maybe Bernie)
34
3%
I don't know right now
30
3%
I don't know (but I am not voting for Biden and/or Trump)
26
2%
I don't plan to vote
31
3%
I am against electoral politics
40
4%
I can't vote (under voting age, not a citizen, disenfrancisement, etc...)
338
30%
 
Total votes : 1124

User avatar
South Odreria 2
Minister
 
Posts: 3100
Founded: Aug 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby South Odreria 2 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:27 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
South Odreria 2 wrote:It’s biased towards the common man

Nah Jacobin is hot garbage. Pravda is better

I paid twenty bucks for a subscription therefore it’s not garbage because the market decided
Valrifell wrote:
Disregard whatever this poster says

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Uiiop
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5809
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Uiiop » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:17 pm

Picairn wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Nah Jacobin is hot garbage. Pravda is better

Jacobin once downplayed a genocide to justify their hate for US interventions. https://mobile.twitter.com/jacobinmag/s ... 3284858882

Whether you agree with US interventions or not, downplaying a genocide is NOT okay.

It's poor form to frame a link to something that says "The serbians were mostly at fault" like you did without actually debunking it.
The mismatch between your conclusion and what faux-nuances are given in the text is exactly the kind of issue that makes people buy into race realism BS.
I had to go looking things up on my own to sniff out the bullshit on how his main sources were backed by biased loons even if he's genuinely more moderate(Though it's clear from looking him up he mellowed out a little) than those sources. Not everyone is going to bother or even capable of looking into that.
Nor will they bother after seeing the president and the US admit they screwed up(i don't buyabout the former source but that's really only because i don't believe everything i read) and missed the poorly framed origins of the conflict .

However, I'm not a fan of going "Soruce bad" as an argument in general and would ask in how their spin is incorrect on a statements confirmed by other sources.
Last edited by Uiiop on Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Cisairse
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9518
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:38 pm

jacobin is pretty okay
Now it's clear as a pillar of smoke
The details of the above post are subject to leftist infighting.

And broken Starbucks glass

Yeah, I support my troops
They wave black flags
They wear black masks

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Blargoblarg
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Posts: 1516
Founded: Sep 06, 2010
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Blargoblarg » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:50 pm

Jacobin is one of the more left-wing sources I trust, along with Common Dreams, The Intercept, In These Times, and Current Affairs.
Last edited by Blargoblarg on Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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South Odreria 2
Minister
 
Posts: 3100
Founded: Aug 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby South Odreria 2 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:53 pm

Cisairse wrote:jacobin is pretty okay

Excuse me, you are not being entirely hostile to the political left. Your anarcho-liberalism score takes five damage points.
Valrifell wrote:
Disregard whatever this poster says

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Nobel Hobos 2
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10481
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:06 pm

Ors Might wrote:
Kowani wrote:Step one: Not doing this.

..Yeah, not doing that would be a wonderful first step. Jesus.


He might be saying he can regulate corporations more using only Executive Orders. I doubt.
Or he might be expressing lack of confidence in Congressional Democrats to do anything. That's depressingly plausible.
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Mirjt
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Posts: 619
Founded: Mar 23, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Mirjt » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:39 am

Blargoblarg wrote:Jacobin is one of the more left-wing sources I trust, along with Common Dreams, The Intercept, In These Times, and Current Affairs.


I hadn't heard of The Intercept, but I had heard of all the others and I also trust these, though I would also recommend TruthOut
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I'm back from my break from NationStates - I'm on a trial period for an SSRI anti-depressant now.

“Your Honor, years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” ― Eugene V. Debs

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Cisairse
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Posts: 9518
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:21 am

South Odreria 2 wrote:
Cisairse wrote:jacobin is pretty okay

Excuse me, you are not being entirely hostile to the political left. Your anarcho-liberalism score takes five damage points.

Thank god
Now it's clear as a pillar of smoke
The details of the above post are subject to leftist infighting.

And broken Starbucks glass

Yeah, I support my troops
They wave black flags
They wear black masks

User avatar
Cisairse
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9518
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:22 am

Mirjt wrote:
Blargoblarg wrote:Jacobin is one of the more left-wing sources I trust, along with Common Dreams, The Intercept, In These Times, and Current Affairs.


I hadn't heard of The Intercept, but I had heard of all the others and I also trust these, though I would also recommend TruthOut

how tf have you not heard of The Intercept

They were the ones who broke the Snowden story
Now it's clear as a pillar of smoke
The details of the above post are subject to leftist infighting.

And broken Starbucks glass

Yeah, I support my troops
They wave black flags
They wear black masks

User avatar
Fahran
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11556
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:04 pm

Blargoblarg wrote:Jacobin is one of the more left-wing sources I trust, along with Common Dreams, The Intercept, In These Times, and Current Affairs.

Aren't most of these lefty rags with pretty overt biases?
I've never gotten the phrase "she wants to have her cake and eat it too." I'm just like "Duh. What's the point of having cake if you can't eat it?" Also, this is why I jog daily.

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Bear Stearns
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Posts: 9111
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:07 pm

Blargoblarg wrote:Jacobin is one of the more left-wing sources I trust, along with Common Dreams, The Intercept, In These Times, and Current Affairs.


lol jesus
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Cisairse
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Posts: 9518
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:08 pm

Fahran wrote:
Blargoblarg wrote:Jacobin is one of the more left-wing sources I trust, along with Common Dreams, The Intercept, In These Times, and Current Affairs.

Aren't most of these lefty rags with pretty overt biases?

If you're going to call the publisher of the Snowden leaks, which was probably the biggest scandal of the Obama administration, a "lefty rag," then, sure.
Now it's clear as a pillar of smoke
The details of the above post are subject to leftist infighting.

And broken Starbucks glass

Yeah, I support my troops
They wave black flags
They wear black masks

User avatar
Mirjt
Diplomat
 
Posts: 619
Founded: Mar 23, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Mirjt » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:08 pm

Fahran wrote:
Blargoblarg wrote:Jacobin is one of the more left-wing sources I trust, along with Common Dreams, The Intercept, In These Times, and Current Affairs.

Aren't most of these lefty rags with pretty overt biases?


Yes, they are all leftist magazines, however factchecker organizations have announced that they all have a high degree of factual content, accuracy, and reliability. Everything has a bias, these magazines just admit their bias. Better than neo-liberal biased trash like the New York Times, Washington Post, and Vox.
About Me | RL Politics | Likes/Dislikes (WIP) | Mirjt's Stance on NS Stats | Mirjt's Factbooks
I'm back from my break from NationStates - I'm on a trial period for an SSRI anti-depressant now.

“Your Honor, years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” ― Eugene V. Debs

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Asle Leopolka
Diplomat
 
Posts: 841
Founded: Oct 18, 2019
Corporate Bordello

Postby Asle Leopolka » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:14 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Ors Might wrote:..Yeah, not doing that would be a wonderful first step. Jesus.


He might be saying he can regulate corporations more using only Executive Orders. I doubt.
Or he might be expressing lack of confidence in Congressional Democrats to do anything. That's depressingly plausible.

I'd rather expect Congress to be grossly ineffective and be pleasantly surprised by them than to expect them to do their job and be constantly disappointed.
Last edited by Asle Leopolka on Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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FutureAmerica
Diplomat
 
Posts: 730
Founded: May 20, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby FutureAmerica » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:59 pm

Mirjt wrote:This topic is directed toward U.S. Leftists (edit: and Progressives) whom are currently not planning to vote for Biden.

For me:

I do not support Biden or his neo-liberal to deeply conservative viewpoints and policies. I do not trust Biden with important issues. (That said, I don't despise Joe Biden because I believe in loving every single human being). I currently plan to vote for Howie Hawkins (and down ticket for progressive democrats, independents, and third party candidates) in November; though that may not matter because I live in Maryland, a safe blue state, which will probably cast all 10 of its electoral votes for Joe Biden. I am, however, willing to risk a Trump second term to show the Democratic establishment that they need to earn my vote (they don't just get my vote because they aren't the worse option). I already consider Bernie Sanders policies to be a moderate compromise (his policies were social democracy, which is a moderate compromise between socialism and capitalism) so I am hesitant to compromise further; that said I think (or hope) that the left has more power right now, and so offer Biden this deal: I will consider voting for Biden, if he meets all the following conditions (this is the minimum price for my vote):

1. He must adopt at least 90% of each of the following plans published by Bernie Sanders:
A. Medicare for All
B. Green New Deal
C. Ending Mass Incarceration
D. Any 3 Economics Plans (Biden may choose from a list of plans published by Bernie Sanders)

2. He must publish his own plan for improving U.S. Democracy (with ideas like ranked choice voting, multi-member districts, campaign finance reform, public campaign funding, support and protection for non-electoral politics, etc...).

3. He must allow leftists at least 45% influence in the DNC.

4. He must allow leftists to choose his Vice President (we will choose a woman so Biden may keep his campaign promise of having a woman Vice President).

5. He must allow and endorse Bernie Sanders (and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, and Ilhan Omar, and Ayanna Presley, and Rashida Talib, and all the other Progressives in Congress) to handle future Democratic responses to the Covid-19 pandemic.

6. He must, on video, sign a pledge (which will be copied and distributed to anyone who wants a copy) that states that if he does not attempt to fulfill each of the above campaign promises during his first 18 months in office, then he will resign after the 2022 midterm elections.

Note: I am okay with adding other stipulations to the signed pledge, such as swearing on the Christian Bible, or making the pledge a full-fledged legal document that can be used to sue Biden should he break it.

Note: I am not even really sure Biden is aware he needs to win over leftists (or independents, or typically non-voters), he probably thinks that the leftists have no where to go but the Democratic Party and he thinks he already has the votes of the Democrats. In his mind he probably thinks he needs to win over Republicans (which is nearly impossible) and swing voters.


It's best if you just move to Cuba, Venezuela or North Korea to live in your Leftist Paradise.

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US-SSR
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Posts: 2151
Founded: Aug 02, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby US-SSR » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:45 pm

What would it take for you to vote for Biden. Him being a Democrat?

George HW Bush: economy tanked.

George W Bush: economy tanked.

Donald J Trump: economy tanked.

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Are we really insane? I hope not.
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No, I don't take responsibility at all! Person, woman, man, camera, TV!

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Centai Mal
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 435
Founded: May 19, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Centai Mal » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:50 am

US-SSR wrote:What would it take for you to vote for Biden. Him being a Democrat?

George HW Bush: economy tanked.

George W Bush: economy tanked.

Donald J Trump: economy tanked.

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Are we really insane? I hope not.

Nah apparently we don’t care if we get another four years under a Republican who WILL replace RBG, we just wanna own the DNC
“Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.”

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Biden 2020
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Aureumterra
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Posts: 8521
Founded: Oct 25, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Aureumterra » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:59 pm

Centai Mal wrote:
US-SSR wrote:What would it take for you to vote for Biden. Him being a Democrat?

George HW Bush: economy tanked.

George W Bush: economy tanked.

Donald J Trump: economy tanked.

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Are we really insane? I hope not.

Nah apparently we don’t care if we get another four years under a Republican who WILL replace RBG, we just wanna own the DNC

Getting more right wingers on the court would be great
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Centai Mal
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 435
Founded: May 19, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Centai Mal » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:42 pm

Aureumterra wrote:
Centai Mal wrote:Nah apparently we don’t care if we get another four years under a Republican who WILL replace RBG, we just wanna own the DNC

Getting more right wingers on the court would be great

Nope, thanks. I would like to be able to adopt kids, get married, and serve in the military
“Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.”

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Biden 2020
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Mirjt
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Posts: 619
Founded: Mar 23, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Mirjt » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:14 pm

I would prefer it if we decided to use a rotating court, or give Supreme Court justices a single term limit of 18 years, instead of a single lifetime term.

Robert Reich made a video about numerous Supreme Court reforms we should make: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxsOXTdCUaw&t=3s

And Thom Hartmann wrote a book about how the Supreme Court's power of judicial review subverts democracy, and may have been an unconstitutional power grab in and of itself, and it is possible to restrict the power of judicial review.
About Me | RL Politics | Likes/Dislikes (WIP) | Mirjt's Stance on NS Stats | Mirjt's Factbooks
I'm back from my break from NationStates - I'm on a trial period for an SSRI anti-depressant now.

“Your Honor, years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” ― Eugene V. Debs

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Cisairse
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Posts: 9518
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:05 pm

Mirjt wrote:I would prefer it if we decided to use a rotating court, or give Supreme Court justices a single term limit of 18 years, instead of a single lifetime term.

Robert Reich made a video about numerous Supreme Court reforms we should make: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxsOXTdCUaw&t=3s

And Thom Hartmann wrote a book about how the Supreme Court's power of judicial review subverts democracy, and may have been an unconstitutional power grab in and of itself, and it is possible to restrict the power of judicial review.

Judicial review is pretty much the only thing keeping us from living A Mind Forever Voyaging irl.
Last edited by Cisairse on Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Now it's clear as a pillar of smoke
The details of the above post are subject to leftist infighting.

And broken Starbucks glass

Yeah, I support my troops
They wave black flags
They wear black masks

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Tarsonis
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12489
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:29 pm

US-SSR wrote:What would it take for you to vote for Biden. Him being a Democrat?

George HW Bush: economy tanked.


The entire world went in to an economic recession following the collapse of the Soviet Union and the deesculation that occurred at the end of the Cold War. Nothing he could have done to stop it, but the economy was booming up to that point.

But you knew that.

George W Bush: economy tanked.

Did well for 7 years actually until the housing bubble collapsed. Granted His policies led to both, so fair play there.

Donald J Trump: economy tanked.

The entire world economy tanked because of the onset of a fucking world wide pandemic, that hit the commercial market like a wrecking ball. There's absolutely nothing Trump could have done to prevent such an eventuality, but the economy was coming along pretty decently before that.

But you knew that.

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Are we really insane? I hope not.


And one definition of intellectual honesty is "a virtuous disposition to eschew deception when given an incentive for deception"

Are you intellectually honest? Not by that one.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:45 pm

Mirjt wrote:
3. He must allow leftists at least 45% influence in the DNC.


Worst idea of all. The DNC is not proportional, and it should be, but it does largely represent state parties ... ie the grassroots of the party. Also elected members, which I don't mind: they were selected from among other Democrats at the primary stage.

I'd use the number of registered Democrats in each state, to set the voting power of their state party's representation in the DNC. If possible, get that on the Presidential ballot every four years, or the mid-term ballot. Though this probably wouldn't be possible, and it would have to be at primary elections (where state parties can limit the voting to registered Dems). Perhaps select some more from a list to make the DNC more nearly proportional to the national Democrat vote.

The DNC should live up to its name, and be more democratic. Not LESS, by somehow appointing 45% leftists.
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Fahran
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Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:47 pm

Cisairse wrote:If you're going to call the publisher of the Snowden leaks, which was probably the biggest scandal of the Obama administration, a "lefty rag," then, sure.

I said what I said.
I've never gotten the phrase "she wants to have her cake and eat it too." I'm just like "Duh. What's the point of having cake if you can't eat it?" Also, this is why I jog daily.

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The Cazistan
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 49
Founded: May 20, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Cazistan » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:49 pm

thread poll is biased against trump
trump wins anyway
my sides

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