What Would It Take for You to Vote for Biden?

[Cisairse]

Lol leftists hate the policies of the Democratic Party

Then they need to create their own party then.

We did

[Picairn]

We did

Have any of those parties even won an election at the state level, let alone a national one?

[Kowani]

We did

Have any of those parties even won an election at the state level, let alone a national one?

[img][49172-F99-1461-425-F-9-C52-56-EAEC30-F99-F.png](https://postimg.cc/949sqK0B)[/img]

1912.

[Picairn]

([url=[49172-F99-1461-425-F-9-C52-56-EAEC30-F99-F.png](https://postimg.cc/949sqK0B)]Image[/url])

1912.

Uhm, Teddy Roosevelt didn't win 1912.

[Kowani]

([url=[49172-F99-1461-425-F-9-C52-56-EAEC30-F99-F.png](https://postimg.cc/949sqK0B)]Image[/url])

1912.

Uhm, Teddy Roosevelt didn't win 1912.

You asked for a state level win.
Roosevelt took 6 states-exceedingly good for a third party.

[Cisairse]

We did

Have any of those parties even won an election at the state level, let alone a national one?

Nope. Why is that relevant? If anything, it proves my point.

[American Pere Housh]

The State's Rights Party did very well in 1948.

[The Orson Empire]

I'm honestly really unsure. Trump is utterly deplorable, but I really can't find myself supporting Biden at this time. He has too many skeletons in his closet, he has several sexual assault allegations, and his mental state is questionable.

You know the election has become really fucked when both of your options are two rapists.

[Mirjt]

Lol leftists hate the policies of the Democratic Party

Then they need to create their own party then.

Just for reference I have a list of 10 third parties I support in my "About Me (WIP)" link

[The Alma Mater]

I'm honestly really unsure. Trump is utterly deplorable, but I really can't find myself supporting Biden at this time. He has too many skeletons in his closet, he has several sexual assault allegations, and his mental state is questionable.

You know the election has become really fucked when both of your options are two rapists.

There are literally dozens of "third party" candidates. The two party system only continues to exist because you choose it to.

[Blargoblarg]

I'm honestly really unsure. Trump is utterly deplorable, but I really can't find myself supporting Biden at this time. He has too many skeletons in his closet, he has several sexual assault allegations, and his mental state is questionable.

You know the election has become really fucked when both of your options are two rapists.

There are several third parties running candidates, you could check out those parties and see if you like any of the candidates they're running for president.

[The Orson Empire]

I'm honestly really unsure. Trump is utterly deplorable, but I really can't find myself supporting Biden at this time. He has too many skeletons in his closet, he has several sexual assault allegations, and his mental state is questionable.

You know the election has become really fucked when both of your options are two rapists.

There are literally dozens of "third party" candidates. The two party system only continues to exist because you choose it to.

Yeah...and hundreds of millions of other people. The nature of the U.S. voting system and the outright undemocratic Electoral College ensures that only two parties remain in power.

Then again, I live in Oklahoma, which will go hardcore Republican no matter what way I vote.

[Mirjt]

I was originally just planning to leave the poll up and not change it, but now I am wondering if people on this thread would prefer I change the poll or keep the current one going. Right now I am going to leave the poll as is, but if people want me to change the poll just let me know.

[Kowani]

I'm honestly really unsure. Trump is utterly deplorable, but I really can't find myself supporting Biden at this time. He has too many skeletons in his closet, he has several sexual assault allegations, and his mental state is questionable.

You know the election has become really fucked when both of your options are two rapists.

There are literally dozens of "third party" candidates. The two party system only continues to exist because you choose it to.

Well, no, it’s just math.

[The Alma Mater]

There are literally dozens of "third party" candidates. The two party system only continues to exist because you choose it to.

Well, no, it’s just math.

Not math, but a logical consequence of having a "winner takes all" system. CGPgrey has a videoseries on it, I know.
It still is a choice to not break it.

[The Orson Empire]

Well, no, it’s just math.

Not math, but a logical consequence of having a "winner takes all" system. CGPgrey has a videoseries on it, I know.
It still is a choice to not break it.

A choice, sure. Convincing millions of people on both sides of the political spectrum to agree with you is a whole different ballgame.

[Nazis in Space]

He has too many skeletons in his closet

Such as?

he has several sexual assault allegations

Two, to be specific (well, one is harrassment, not assault, but we'll throw them together for simplicity's sake).

One by Eva Murry, whose initial claim - 'Biden commented on my breasts at a dinner in 2008' (she was thirteen) turned out to be literally impossible, because Biden was explicitly not on the guest list, being busy with campaign-y things. Who then moved the date to 2007, when Biden was also explicitly not present, and finally to 2009, at which point people stopped listening because who the hell remains thirteen for three years?

The other by Tara Reade, whose claims involved

• Biden ordering her to bring him his gym bag (the entirety of Biden's staff has noted that he specifically made a point of not ever telling women to do such things)
• assaulting her in a public and frequently-travelled space for multiple minutes
• in a fashion identical to a scene found in her father's novel
• after realising the questionable probability of the location, changing it to somewhere else (Gym bag was still delivered, now entirely pointlessly so)
• and finally, spicing the story up with 'I was wearing crotchless underwear because it was so hot' (in April)

She's also currently under investigation for lying under oath as she appears to have lied about her qualifications under oath when called as an expert witness in court, though that one's admittedly tangential since criminals can of course be assaulted, too. And precedent does suggest that 'Lying under oath' doesn't particularly hurt one's credibility when you tell people what they want to hear, at least.

Y'know, the whole 'Believe Women' thing doesn't mean 'Every woman is always right'. It means 'Take the claim serious, investigate rather than dismiss it out of hand. Then form an opinion'.

This is, incidentally, what actually happened here.

It's just, well... weird to look at the results of the investigations and concluding 'Yeah, Biden's definitely guilty!'

and his mental state is questionable.

I take it that you haven't actually watched any of Biden's speeches and debates during the primaries/the current protest shenanigans. The full speeches, I mean. Not ten-second youtube clips put up by Sandernistas.

Meanwhile, concerning the mental state of third party candidates...



Just saying.

[Valrifell]

Then they need to create their own party then.

They did

The FBI infiltrated their ranks and arrested their founder.

Still carried some EC votes though, so at least the left has a better record than the LP.

[Tombradyonia]

He has too many skeletons in his closet

Such as?

he has several sexual assault allegations

Two, to be specific (well, one is harrassment, not assault, but we'll throw them together for simplicity's sake).

One by Eva Murry, whose initial claim - 'Biden commented on my breasts at a dinner in 2008' (she was thirteen) turned out to be literally impossible, because Biden was explicitly not on the guest list, being busy with campaign-y things. Who then moved the date to 2007, when Biden was also explicitly not present, and finally to 2009, at which point people stopped listening because who the hell remains thirteen for three years?

The other by Tara Reade, whose claims involved

• Biden ordering her to bring him his gym bag (the entirety of Biden's staff has noted that he specifically made a point of not ever telling women to do such things)
• assaulting her in a public and frequently-travelled space for multiple minutes
• in a fashion identical to a scene found in her father's novel
• after realising the questionable probability of the location, changing it to somewhere else (Gym bag was still delivered, now entirely pointlessly so)
• and finally, spicing the story up with 'I was wearing crotchless underwear because it was so hot' (in April)

She's also currently under investigation for lying under oath as she appears to have lied about her qualifications under oath when called as an expert witness in court, though that one's admittedly tangential since criminals can of course be assaulted, too. And precedent does suggest that 'Lying under oath' doesn't particularly hurt one's credibility when you tell people what they want to hear, at least.

Y'know, the whole 'Believe Women' thing doesn't mean 'Every woman is always right'. It means 'Take the claim serious, investigate rather than dismiss it out of hand. Then form an opinion'.

This is, incidentally, what actually happened here.

It's just, well... weird to look at the results of the investigations and concluding 'Yeah, Biden's definitely guilty!'

and his mental state is questionable.

I take it that you haven't actually watched any of Biden's speeches and debates during the primaries/the current protest shenanigans. The full speeches, I mean. Not ten-second youtube clips put up by Sandernistas.

Meanwhile, concerning the mental state of third party candidates...



Just saying.

Most of these attacks on Biden consist of the usual RW smears, lies and exaggerations, just like they did with Hillary. These socalled questions about Biden's mental health are a ludicrous smear attempt, and the usual suspects seem to buy into it because it is what they want to hear.

The RW narrative basically goes like this: deals with Iran are treason when Reagan doesn't do them (and Reagan's secret deal was actual treason), candidates are only responsible for people that were killed in terrorist attacks if their name isn't Reagan (ie Beirut, Reagan's Benghazi x 75), sexual assault is only bad when it's someone else than Trump doing it, stealing deposits from real estate projects is only bad if it's someone else than Trump doing it and so on.

[Thermodolia]

Stop relying on the states and local governments to do everything. We didn’t wait for them to get their act together on civil rights so why should we wait for them to change the voting system?

Because elections are literally handled by the states, as per the United States Constitution.

Actually Congress has the power to alter the regulations concerning elections and the method of elections per the constitution.

So Congress could pass a law requiring that all elections be held using IRV or STV. Due to the way the constitution is written you have to have local representatives so MMP and Party List PR are out of question. However IRV and STV are possible due to the fact that both keep local representatives, the constitution doesn’t ban multi-member districts, and they both fit the population size requirements.

President Bernie couldn't change that.

That wasn’t my point. My point is that any democrat needs to take advantage of both chambers being under their control. If Biden finds himself with democrats controlling both chambers then he needs to start passing everything they can come up with.

Because the full control won’t last forever as Obama found out.

[Neuer Deutsches Reich]

i would like 1 billion on my bank account please, then i will consider

[Blouman Empire]

Not appointing Warren, Pelosi, Kolbuchar or Abrams will be a good start

[Elwher]

Wouldn't this compact run into trouble with Clause 3, Section 10, Article I of the US Constitution? "No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay."

IIRC the authors of the NPVIC say that despite the name the NPVIC isn't actually an interstate compact because it's just a bunch of states passing a law that happens to only take effect when other states also pass a law.

By that standard, price-fixing is not a thing because each company is setting their own price that happens to be identical to the prices set by the other companies.

[Cisairse]

I'm honestly really unsure. Trump is utterly deplorable, but I really can't find myself supporting Biden at this time. He has too many skeletons in his closet, he has several sexual assault allegations, and his mental state is questionable.

You know the election has become really fucked when both of your options are two rapists.

Biden isn't a rapist, wtf

[Cisairse]

I'm honestly really unsure. Trump is utterly deplorable, but I really can't find myself supporting Biden at this time. He has too many skeletons in his closet, he has several sexual assault allegations, and his mental state is questionable.

You know the election has become really fucked when both of your options are two rapists.

There are literally dozens of "third party" candidates. The two party system only continues to exist because you choose it to.

Well, that, and laws.

Because elections are literally handled by the states, as per the United States Constitution.

Actually Congress has the power to alter the regulations concerning elections and the method of elections per the constitution.

So Congress could pass a law requiring that all elections be held using IRV or STV. Due to the way the constitution is written you have to have local representatives so MMP and Party List PR are out of question. However IRV and STV are possible due to the fact that both keep local representatives, the constitution doesn’t ban multi-member districts, and they both fit the population size requirements.

President Bernie couldn't change that.

That wasn’t my point. My point is that any democrat needs to take advantage of both chambers being under their control. If Biden finds himself with democrats controlling both chambers then he needs to start passing everything they can come up with.

Because the full control won’t last forever as Obama found out.

Under what power do they have this authority? And, if they can change election laws merely by passing acts of Congress, why did they go through the process to pass an entire amendment to alter the election system for Senators in 1913?