What Would It Take for You to Vote for Biden?

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

I think that I'll simply pretend that Joe Biden is just as bad as Donald Trump and vote for a third party candidate with no chance of winning.

Then, when Donald Trump's margin of victory in my state is much smaller than the number of votes for third-party candidates, I'll still have my principles. Nevermind that me and my third-party cohorts could have supported Joe Biden and helped him win my state. I've got my principles.

Perhaps after that, I'll choke under the weight of my own smugness.

Dude me, Kannap, and Blargoblarg are in pretty safe states. A republican isn’t going to win RI, and it’s very unlikely that a democrat is going to win either GA or NC.

Also I’m sure our three collective votes will definitely change the election.

Not going to vote, but even if I did, I doubt I’d change the outcome considering how the Cubans in Florida have gone from mild anti communist conservative to full on Trump cultists in the last four years

[Gormwood]

Dude me, Kannap, and Blargoblarg are in pretty safe states. A republican isn’t going to win RI, and it’s very unlikely that a democrat is going to win either GA or NC.

Also I’m sure our three collective votes will definitely change the election.

Not going to vote, but even if I did, I doubt I’d change the outcome considering how the Cubans in Florida have gone from mild anti communist conservative to full on Trump cultists in the last four years

Yeah, we've seen that here.

[The Emerald Legion]

Yeah, they both say and believe shitty things. Now what?

I think that I'll simply pretend that Joe Biden is just as bad as Donald Trump and vote for a third party candidate with no chance of winning.

Then, when Donald Trump's margin of victory in my state is much smaller than the number of votes for third-party candidates, I'll still have my principles. Nevermind that me and my third-party cohorts could have supported Joe Biden and helped him win my state. I've got my principles.

Perhaps after that, I'll choke under the weight of my own smugness.

What the fuck is the point of having an individual vote if you can't use it however you want?

Fuck this argument. Noone is owed your vote.

[The Andromeda Island Group]

I think that I'll simply pretend that Joe Biden is just as bad as Donald Trump and vote for a third party candidate with no chance of winning.

Then, when Donald Trump's margin of victory in my state is much smaller than the number of votes for third-party candidates, I'll still have my principles. Nevermind that me and my third-party cohorts could have supported Joe Biden and helped him win my state. I've got my principles.

Perhaps after that, I'll choke under the weight of my own smugness.

What the fuck is the point of having an individual vote if you can't use it however you want?

Fuck this argument. Noone is owed your vote.

Oooh, two F bombs in a single post. How edgy!

If you thought using profanity was going to somehow change my mind about the 2020 election, you're sadly mistaken.

As much as I'd like to see a viable 3rd party, getting rid of Donald Trump is priority #1 with me. This election is too important.

Despite this, I'm sure you've gained some cool points with the edgy crowd. Congratulations!

[Sun Wukong]

He would have to best me in single combat.

[South Odreria 2]

He would have to best me in single combat.

Does a push up contest count

[Sun Wukong]

He would have to best me in single combat.

Does a push up contest count

I'm afraid that if I pushed against the Earth with all my might, the entire planet would be destroyed.

That might be a better outcome than a Biden presidency. It would definitely be preferable to four more years of Trump.

[Cisairse]

Yes, and that is one of the dumb parts of Catholic theology.



You could transfer your little speech here into any presidential election year since like 1952 and it would be valid.

Fun fact: When your choice is reform or regression, you probably want to choose reform

He’s right though. We need to stop this piecemeal little bits of reform. Obama squandered his first few years in office when the democrats controlled both chambers.

We need more radical action on things like Climate Change, Healthcare, homelessness, jobs, and other things. We can’t just keep comprising to the republicans.

If the democrats get both chambers again they need to ram down everything they can possibly think of to fix this nation

Simply put, you can't.

Not without electoral reform, and not without campaign finance reform. But bernie-or-busters probably view that as "incremental change" just because Biden supports it (and has for 40 years).

With a Democratic unified government, we probably could get some level of campaign finance reform through Congress. If the trend that Maine started in 2018 w/r/t ranked ballots continues, we may even be able to get electoral reform through local governments (assuming people vote Democrats into local governments; right now they are vastly outnumbered by the GOP there).

You're almost certainly not going to get anything else until that happens. Even if Bernie had won the nomination, won the presidency, flipped the Senate and achieved a supermajority in the House you still wouldn't have gotten Medicare-for-All because FTFP is going to prevent any expansion of the overton window. It always has and it always will.

[South Odreria 2]

He’s right though. We need to stop this piecemeal little bits of reform. Obama squandered his first few years in office when the democrats controlled both chambers.

We need more radical action on things like Climate Change, Healthcare, homelessness, jobs, and other things. We can’t just keep comprising to the republicans.

If the democrats get both chambers again they need to ram down everything they can possibly think of to fix this nation

Simply put, you can't.

Not without electoral reform, and not without campaign finance reform. But bernie-or-busters probably view that as "incremental change" just because Biden supports it (and has for 40 years).

With a Democratic unified government, we probably could get some level of campaign finance reform through Congress. If the trend that Maine started in 2018 w/r/t ranked ballots continues, we may even be able to get electoral reform through local governments (assuming people vote Democrats into local governments; right now they are vastly outnumbered by the GOP there).

You're almost certainly not going to get anything else until that happens. Even if Bernie had won the nomination, won the presidency, flipped the Senate and achieved a supermajority in the House you still wouldn't have gotten Medicare-for-All because FTFP is going to prevent any expansion of the overton window. It always has and it always will.

Why are they not allowed to legislate until every local government does ranked choice?

[West Leas Oros 2]

Watching the thread bootlick for Biden is seriously hurting my brain, and you know what? Fuck it. If they want to sell their souls to the system, that’s their decision. But if they want to demonize me for rejecting their shitty neoliberalism, that’s where my problem lies. Biden must be a great candidate for compromise, after all, he tries to convert centrists who probably would vote for him anyway, while discarding and ignoring the leftist democrats who he actually needs to worry about. The DNC needs to get it through their heads that we are way beyond the point of compromise and incremental “reform”. At this point, they have two choices, either realize the necessity of radical action, or face defeat and possible revolt. People are tired of corporate puppetry and crony candidacies, and if they continue their path, there will be chaos.

I'm Donald Trump and I approve this message!

“Anybody who criticizes daddy Biden or tries to have him held accountable is a bad ebil Trumper!”

[Cisairse]

Simply put, you can't.

Not without electoral reform, and not without campaign finance reform. But bernie-or-busters probably view that as "incremental change" just because Biden supports it (and has for 40 years).

With a Democratic unified government, we probably could get some level of campaign finance reform through Congress. If the trend that Maine started in 2018 w/r/t ranked ballots continues, we may even be able to get electoral reform through local governments (assuming people vote Democrats into local governments; right now they are vastly outnumbered by the GOP there).

You're almost certainly not going to get anything else until that happens. Even if Bernie had won the nomination, won the presidency, flipped the Senate and achieved a supermajority in the House you still wouldn't have gotten Medicare-for-All because FTFP is going to prevent any expansion of the overton window. It always has and it always will.

Why are they not allowed to legislate until every local government does ranked choice?

It's not that they're not allowed to, it's that they won't.

Left-wing candidates were steamrolled across the map this year.

[The Andromeda Island Group]

I'm Donald Trump and I approve this message!

“Anybody who criticizes daddy Biden or tries to have him held accountable is a bad ebil Trumper!”

If I actually said that all of Biden's critics were Trump loyalists, you might have a point.

I merely meant that Donald Trump wants his opposition to be divided. That way, he can get the most votes.

You might not be "a bad ebil Trumper," but you've definitely proven yourself to be just as dishonest as The Donald.

I feel profoundly sorry for you.

[South Odreria 2]

Why are they not allowed to legislate until every local government does ranked choice?

It's not that they're not allowed to, it's that they won't.

Left-wing candidates were steamrolled across the map this year.

What about mainstream democrat stuff

[West Leas Oros 2]

“Anybody who criticizes daddy Biden or tries to have him held accountable is a bad ebil Trumper!”

If I actually said that all of Biden's critics were Trump loyalists, you might have a point.

I merely meant that Donald Trump wants his opposition to be divided. That way, he can get the most votes.

You might not be "a bad ebil Trumper," but you've definitely proven yourself to be just as dishonest as The Donald.

I feel profoundly sorry for you.

Biden is doing a pretty good job dividing the opposition on his own. You’re the dishonest one, pissing on your values and falling into the cesspool of “vote blue no matter who”.

[Region of Dwipantara]

If Biden get elected, who do you think will act as the shadow president (esp for later years)? His VP, or one of his secretary (such as, if rumours are to be believed, JP Morgan boss Jamie Dimon)?

[Blargoblarg]

I'm Donald Trump and I approve this message!

“Anybody who criticizes daddy Biden or tries to have him held accountable is a bad ebil Trumper!”

Neoliberals don't seem to realize that it's possible to be against both Biden and Trump. If you don't support one you must be supporting the other, somehow.

[Idzequitch]

Full on honesty here. Do with your vote as you want. I don't care about viability or any of the crap people like to talk about with third parties. You don't owe anyone your vote just because we've arbitrarily decided that only two parties are allowed to win. And at the end of the day, even if your third party candidate doesn't win, you still haven't wasted your vote because you've made yourself heard and communicated the sort of choices you want to be available in the future. And if everyone who wanted to do that actually followed through, maybe we could have more than two "real" options in our elections.

And now after saying all that, I have to say that I haven't found any third party candidates I particularly like, and since I very much want to see Trump leave the White House, I've weighed the options and decided that I'll most likely be voting for Biden.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

“Anybody who criticizes daddy Biden or tries to have him held accountable is a bad ebil Trumper!”

Neoliberals don't seem to realize that it's possible to be against both Biden and Trump. If you don't support one you must be supporting the other, somehow.

The biggest third party vote in modern times was for Ross Perot in 1992

Do you think that was

1. A protest vote against having major parties
2. A protest vote, Bill Clinton and GHW Bush were so hated
3. A vote for a very strong candidate, despite not have a party
4. A vote for a moderately strong candidate with money to spend
5. Some other reason?

[The Andromeda Island Group]

Full on honesty here. Do with your vote as you want. I don't care about viability or any of the crap people like to talk about with third parties. You don't owe anyone your vote just because we've arbitrarily decided that only two parties are allowed to win. And at the end of the day, even if your third party candidate doesn't win, you still haven't wasted your vote because you've made yourself heard and communicated the sort of choices you want to be available in the future. And if everyone who wanted to do that actually followed through, maybe we could have more than two "real" options in our elections.

And now after saying all that, I have to say that I haven't found any third party candidates I particularly like, and since I very much want to see Trump leave the White House, I've weighed the options and decided that I'll most likely be voting for Biden.

Don't give them an actual, thoughtful, nuanced position. Those of us who plan to vote for Biden can't possibly be reasonable people who have come to logical conclusions. Instead, we're all thoughtless automatons who refuse to consider other options.

They've already made assumptions about what I actually wrote without actually reading and understanding the words. When I wrote "I'm Donald Trump and I approve this message," I never said that all Biden critics were automatically Trump supporters. Instead, I concluded that Donald Trump would love for his opposition to be divided so he can win.

That's Trump's re-election strategy in a nutshell: Divide and Conquer!

[Thermodolia]

He’s right though. We need to stop this piecemeal little bits of reform. Obama squandered his first few years in office when the democrats controlled both chambers.

We need more radical action on things like Climate Change, Healthcare, homelessness, jobs, and other things. We can’t just keep comprising to the republicans.

If the democrats get both chambers again they need to ram down everything they can possibly think of to fix this nation

Simply put, you can't.

Not without electoral reform, and not without campaign finance reform. But bernie-or-busters probably view that as "incremental change" just because Biden supports it (and has for 40 years).

With a Democratic unified government, we probably could get some level of campaign finance reform through Congress. If the trend that Maine started in 2018 w/r/t ranked ballots continues, we may even be able to get electoral reform through local governments (assuming people vote Democrats into local governments; right now they are vastly outnumbered by the GOP there).

You're almost certainly not going to get anything else until that happens. Even if Bernie had won the nomination, won the presidency, flipped the Senate and achieved a supermajority in the House you still wouldn't have gotten Medicare-for-All because FTFP is going to prevent any expansion of the overton window. It always has and it always will.

Stop relying on the states and local governments to do everything. We didn’t wait for them to get their act together on civil rights so why should we wait for them to change the voting system?

[Picairn]

Stop relying on the states and local governments to do everything. We didn’t wait for them to get their act together on civil rights so why should we wait for them to change the voting system?

Are you advocating for electoral reform at the federal level? I'm quite sure that would require a Constitutional Amendment, which again relies on the states.

[Thermodolia]

Stop relying on the states and local governments to do everything. We didn’t wait for them to get their act together on civil rights so why should we wait for them to change the voting system?

Are you advocating for electoral reform at the federal level? I'm quite sure that would require a Constitutional Amendment, which again relies on the states.

Yes I am. And actually it wouldn’t require an amendment as the constitution actually allows congress to alter the regulations regarding voting by law at anytime which includes the electoral system.

So all we would have to do is change the voting system and that’s it. So STV or IRV here we come!

[Kannap]

“Anybody who criticizes daddy Biden or tries to have him held accountable is a bad ebil Trumper!”

If I actually said that all of Biden's critics were Trump loyalists, you might have a point.

I merely meant that Donald Trump wants his opposition to be divided. That way, he can get the most votes.

You might not be "a bad ebil Trumper," but you've definitely proven yourself to be just as dishonest as The Donald.

I feel profoundly sorry for you.

Well of course Trump wants his opposition to be divided. It's not his job to unify the left.

[Picairn]

Yes I am. And actually it wouldn’t require an amendment as the constitution actually allows congress to alter the regulations regarding voting by law at anytime which includes the electoral system.

So all we would have to do is change the voting system and that’s it. So STV or IRV here we come!

So how do you make the changes to the Electoral College, precisely?

[Valrifell]

Yes I am. And actually it wouldn’t require an amendment as the constitution actually allows congress to alter the regulations regarding voting by law at anytime which includes the electoral system.

So all we would have to do is change the voting system and that’s it. So STV or IRV here we come!

So how do you make the changes to the Electoral College, precisely?

The states can alter how their delegates are dished out and control their own ballots.

So, like that.