What Would It Take for You to Vote for Biden?

[Stellonia]

What would it take? If Biden were endorsed by a former Republican Secretary of State and the first black Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff maybe...

I don't think so. Look at the first sentence of the OP.

This topic is directed toward U.S. Leftists (edit: and Progressives) whom are currently not planning to vote for Biden.

What kind of leftist would vote for Biden because Colin Powell endorsed him?

[West Leas Oros 2]

I’m not, but I’m going to try to put myself in the shoes of a Bidenite for the sake of argument. Colin Powell isn’t exactly a good person, and him endorsing Biden might cause me to reconsider whether I’m a fan of Biden or not. Of course, then I remember that, as a hypothetical Biden supporter, that my mantra is “vote bloo no matter who!1!” so I have to muster up the cognitive dissonance and warm up my mental gymnastics as to how getting an endorsement from a man responsible for committing war crimes is, in fact, a good thing. Then I stop putting myself in the shoes of a Bidenite and sleep soundly knowing I still hold loyalty to my values and don’t plan to vote for a man endorsed by a warmonger.

You had me at "I'm not,..."

Will you be voting third party, or Trump?

Probably not at all. I live in a deep blue state, so it won’t change anything, and in general, I oppose voting in the American system, and I’m more of a revolutionary type than a reformist. Not that reform is possible in the USA, considering we’ve pretty much never had a 3rd party win. America has one party, the corporate party, and its two wings pretend to fight each other to keep voters in line. Best I can hope for is maybe the Greens doing well, but I highly doubt that.

[West Leas Oros 2]

What would it take? If Biden were endorsed by a former Republican Secretary of State and the first black Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff maybe...

I don't think so. Look at the first sentence of the OP.

This topic is directed toward U.S. Leftists (edit: and Progressives) whom are currently not planning to vote for Biden.

What kind of leftist would vote for Biden because Colin Powell endorsed him?

Absolutely no leftist should vote for Biden because Powell endorsed him. In fact, it’s another reason NOT to.

[Cisairse]

People vote based on endorsements?

[Bear Stearns]

People vote based on endorsements?

You have be retarded to vote for someone based on an endorsement, let alone a celebrity endorsement.

It's very telling that Jim Clyburn's endorsement proved pivotal.

[Blargoblarg]

People vote based on endorsements?

I assume there are some people who do. It seems like a silly reason to vote for a candidate to me, but I prefer to vote based on the policies the candidates support. And since I can't trust Biden or Trump to support the leftist policies I value, I'm probably going to vote Green this election.

[Bangova]

tegearfwq3rg4twhrbsgvwt54ehy

[Blargoblarg]

What would it take? If Biden were endorsed by a former Republican Secretary of State and the first black Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff maybe...

I don't think so. Look at the first sentence of the OP.

This topic is directed toward U.S. Leftists (edit: and Progressives) whom are currently not planning to vote for Biden.

What kind of leftist would vote for Biden because Colin Powell endorsed him?

This just tells me that there are a lot of non-leftists in this thread who didn't read the OP before posting.

[West Leas Oros 2]

FUCK TRUMP AND HIS RACIST DICK ASS HE BLAMES OBAMA FOR EVERYTHING AND FOX FUCKING NEWS CALLS BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT TERRORIST THE REASON WHY I WANT BIDEN IS HE SUPPORTS MY BELOVED ROMODEL BARRACK OBAMA FUCK TRUMP!

Impeccable reasoning. You’re aware Biden is nothing like Obama, right? Compared to Biden, Obama is the most progressive guy around. Which says a lot, because Obama wasn’t even super progressive. Biden is only slightly left of being a moderate Republican. He’s on the far-right of the Democratic Party.

[The Andromeda Island Group]

You have be retarded to vote for someone based on an endorsement, let alone a celebrity endorsement.

Michael Jackson couldn't have said it clearer.
Someone should start with the man in the mirror.

[Picairn]

Our only choice to get rid of Trump now is to vote Biden. Better to hold your nose and vote for him than throwing a tantrum and let Trump be re-elected. Not all Americans will agree with Joe (me neither), but he can be reasoned and negotiated with, unlike the uncompromising Bernie who supports and insists on far-left policies that many European countries don't have.

"But if Biden loses, the DNC will get the lesson that we don't support the EsTaBliShmEnT cAndIdAtEs !!!" - said the Progressives. Sure, you can brag about it as Trump confirms a new conservative judge replacing RBG, setting back the Progressive agenda for another 20-30 years. At that point, any Progressive, far-left policies will be blocked by the Court (provided they even pass Congress).

[-Astoria]

Our only choice to get rid of Trump now is to vote Biden. Better to hold your nose and vote for him than throwing a tantrum and let Trump be re-elected. Not all Americans will agree with Joe (me neither), but he can be reasoned and negotiated with, than the uncompromising Bernie who supports and insists on far-left policies that many European countries don't have.

"But if Biden loses, the DNC will get the lesson that we don't support the EsTaBliShmEnT cAndIdAtEs !!!" - said the Progressives. Sure, you can brag about it as Trump confirms a new conservatives judge replacing RBG, setting back the Progressive agenda for another 20-30 years. At that point, any Progressive, far-left policies will be blocked by the Court (provided they even pass the Congress).

This.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Our only choice to get rid of Trump now is to vote Biden. Better to hold your nose and vote for him than throwing a tantrum and let Trump be re-elected. Not all Americans will agree with Joe (me neither), but he can be reasoned and negotiated with, than the uncompromising Bernie who supports and insists on far-left policies that many European countries don't have.

"But if Biden loses, the DNC will get the lesson that we don't support the EsTaBliShmEnT cAndIdAtEs !!!" - said the Progressives. Sure, you can brag about it as Trump confirms a new conservatives judge replacing RBG, setting back the Progressive agenda for another 20-30 years. At that point, any Progressive, far-left policies will be blocked by the Court (provided they even pass the Congress).

Your smearing of any policy left of center as “far-left” is ridiculous, as is your belief that Biden’s “compromise” rhetoric will at all help the progressive cause. Biden has already backstabbed the “far-left” enough times, and that’s why the time for voting against the establishment is over. The fact is, the DNC will never listen to what progressives think, and at this point, the progressives are on their own. They have two choices, side with Biden and ensure that they are ousted from their own party and the US shifts rightward, or turn towards the radical, revolutionary position, reject neoliberal “lesser evilism” and other establishment rhetoric, and raise up arms against this sham of a “representative” government. It is quite clear that neoliberal “compromise” rhetoric is nothing more than thinly-veiled support for the status quo and an attempt to crush progressives through converting them out of fear of the Republicans. The Bidenites would have the progressives discredited and pushed to the fringe. Biden would easily sacrifice the left for support from the right.

[The Andromeda Island Group]

Our only choice to get rid of Trump now is to vote Biden. Better to hold your nose and vote for him than throwing a tantrum and let Trump be re-elected. Not all Americans will agree with Joe (me neither), but he can be reasoned and negotiated with, unlike the uncompromising Bernie who supports and insists on far-left policies that many European countries don't have.

"But if Biden loses, the DNC will get the lesson that we don't support the EsTaBliShmEnT cAndIdAtEs !!!" - said the Progressives. Sure, you can brag about it as Trump confirms a new conservative judge replacing RBG, setting back the Progressive agenda for another 20-30 years. At that point, any Progressive, far-left policies will be blocked by the Court (provided they even pass Congress).

Don't you get it Picairn? Smugness and self-righteousness are much more important than the practical implications of giving Donald Trump another victory.
We have to stop Joe Biden, because simply turning our country back to the right direction isn't enough.

WE WANT IT ALL AND WE WANT IT NOW!!!

[Picairn]

Your smearing of any policy left of center as “far-left” is ridiculous, as is your belief that Biden’s “compromise” rhetoric will at all help the progressive cause. Biden has already backstabbed the “far-left” enough times, and that’s why the time for voting against the establishment is over. The fact is, the DNC will never listen to what progressives think, and at this point, the progressives are on their own. They have two choices, side with Biden and ensure that they are ousted from their own party and the US shifts rightward, or turn towards the radical, revolutionary position, reject neoliberal “lesser evilism” and other establishment rhetoric, and raise up arms against this sham of a “representative” government. It is quite clear that neoliberal “compromise” rhetoric is nothing more than thinly-veiled support for the status quo and an attempt to crush progressives through converting them out of fear of the Republicans. The Bidenites would have the progressives discredited and pushed to the fringe. Biden would easily sacrifice the left for support from the right.

"Ridiculous", eh? Do tell, how can you explain that 90% punitive tax rate on the rich and banning private insurance, which many European countries don't even have, are "center-left" proposals? Sanders' policies won't pass as "center-left" under close scrutiny by any person with a modicum of knowledge and experience.

How can you, exactly, "turn towards the radical, revolutionary position, reject neoliberal “lesser evilism” and other establishment rhetoric, and raise up arms against this sham of a “representative” government"? Are you advocating for a radical socialist revolution? Sadly, socialists and communists are a minority among Americans. Thank God for that, Americans will not accept any of the same murderous ideology that caused massive deaths worldwide throughout the 20th century. Or, if you desire a social democratic nation, like the Scandinavian countries, you would do well to remember that even Scandinavian countries don't go as far as a 90% punitive tax rate on the rich. Quite the contrary, the highest tax rate on the rich is 57% by Sweden, and they gain the most revenue from... *drum roll please* flat taxes, such as the VAT or Social Security contributions (the same taxes that Progressives claim will hurt the poor). In addition, all of these countries have low corporate tax rate, even lower than the United States itself, so as not to discourage business activities. As you can see, the Scandinavian model is not a "soak the rich" model, as often misunderstood by socialists, but rather a "everyone pays and contributes, even the poor and the government shall help the people to the extent possible" model. The Scandinavians pride themselves on the spirit of camaraderie, empathy and cooperation. Everyone will work hard, and everyone will contribute to their countries as a civilized member of society, not just the rich. That spirit is what keeps the Scandinavian model alive. Meanwhile, the Progressives here demand more and more from the rich, without regards to fiscal stability or realistic implementation. And they proceeds to throw tantrums when they don't get what they like, even when Biden already compromised by pledging on $15 minimum wage, expanding healthcare coverage, investing in green energy, and allowing Progressives to join his policy task force.

But I digress. Biden already compromised with the left, and now he needs to build a broad coalition by recruiting disillusioned right-wing voters, who have fallen out of favor with Trump, to defeat him in November. That's what Obama did, and he succeeded by a landslide in 2008.

Biden has compromised enough.

[Picairn]

Don't you get it Picairn? Smugness and self-righteousness are much more important than the practical implications of giving Donald Trump another victory.
We have to stop Joe Biden, because simply turning our country back to the right direction isn't enough.

WE WANT IT ALL AND WE WANT IT NOW!!!

This is the reason why I hate Bernie Bros. They can't get what they want so they will drag the Democratic Party down with them, at the expense of America's democracy and civil rights. Biden isn't a stubborn asshole like Trump, he can actually be reasoned and negotiated with, like *gasp* an actual human being. Also electing a President isn't enough, we need to kick out Mitch McConnell and his ilk as well. The only Republicans I will ever support are the good fellows from the Lincoln Project and Republicans for the rule of law.

[Thermodolia]

Your smearing of any policy left of center as “far-left” is ridiculous, as is your belief that Biden’s “compromise” rhetoric will at all help the progressive cause. Biden has already backstabbed the “far-left” enough times, and that’s why the time for voting against the establishment is over. The fact is, the DNC will never listen to what progressives think, and at this point, the progressives are on their own. They have two choices, side with Biden and ensure that they are ousted from their own party and the US shifts rightward, or turn towards the radical, revolutionary position, reject neoliberal “lesser evilism” and other establishment rhetoric, and raise up arms against this sham of a “representative” government. It is quite clear that neoliberal “compromise” rhetoric is nothing more than thinly-veiled support for the status quo and an attempt to crush progressives through converting them out of fear of the Republicans. The Bidenites would have the progressives discredited and pushed to the fringe. Biden would easily sacrifice the left for support from the right.

"Ridiculous", eh? Do tell, how can you explain that 90% punitive tax rate on the rich and banning private insurance, which many European countries don't even have, are "center-left" proposals? Sanders' policies won't pass as "center-left" under close scrutiny by any person with a modicum of knowledge and experience.

How can you, exactly, "turn towards the radical, revolutionary position, reject neoliberal “lesser evilism” and other establishment rhetoric, and raise up arms against this sham of a “representative” government"? Are you advocating for a radical socialist revolution? Sadly, socialists and communists are a minority among Americans. Thank God for that, Americans will not accept any of the same murderous ideology that caused massive deaths worldwide throughout the 20th century. Or, if you desire a social democratic nation, like the Scandinavian countries, you would do well to remember that even Scandinavian countries don't go as far as a 90% punitive tax rate on the rich. Quite the contrary, the highest tax rate on the rich is 57% by Sweden, and they gain the most revenue from... *drum roll please* flat taxes, such as the VAT or Social Security contributions (the same taxes that Progressives claim will hurt the poor). In addition, all of these countries have low corporate tax rate, even lower than the United States itself, so as not to discourage business activities. As you can see, the Scandinavian model is not a "soak the rich" model, as often misunderstood by socialists, but rather a "everyone pays and contributes, even the poor and the government shall help the people to the extent possible" model. The Scandinavians pride themselves on the spirit of camaraderie, empathy and cooperation. Everyone will work hard, and everyone will contribute to their countries as a civilized member of society, not just the rich. That spirit is what keeps the Scandinavian model alive. Meanwhile, the Progressives here demand more and more from the rich, without regards to fiscal stability or realistic implementation. And they proceeds to throw tantrums when they don't get what they like, even when Biden already compromised by pledging on $15 minimum wage, expanding healthcare coverage, investing in green energy, and allowing Progressives to join his policy task force.

But I digress. Biden already compromised with the left, and now he needs to build a broad coalition by recruiting disillusioned right-wing voters, who have fallen out of favor with Trump, to defeat him in November. That's what Obama did, and he succeeded by a landslide in 2008.

Biden has compromised enough.

Nice rant. Now here’s the thing about Washington; Sanders was never going to get any of his stuff passed as is. Everyone knew that. However because the plan was more out there it would get watered down to where Biden currently stands.

Now you may think “oh so why don’t you just vote Biden then” because Biden isn’t going to get what he wants passed either and it will also get watered down. That $15 wage? That’s becomes $9. GND? Half measures to half heartedly stop global warming. UHC? Again it will get watered down to a corporate mess.

This is why you need to start on the fringe and go from then not start from the center and in up in the right wing. And don’t tell me it can’t be done the republicans do it all the damn time.

[Thermodolia]

Our only choice to get rid of Trump now is to vote Biden. Better to hold your nose and vote for him than throwing a tantrum and let Trump be re-elected. Not all Americans will agree with Joe (me neither), but he can be reasoned and negotiated with, unlike the uncompromising Bernie who supports and insists on far-left policies that many European countries don't have.

"But if Biden loses, the DNC will get the lesson that we don't support the EsTaBliShmEnT cAndIdAtEs !!!" - said the Progressives. Sure, you can brag about it as Trump confirms a new conservative judge replacing RBG, setting back the Progressive agenda for another 20-30 years. At that point, any Progressive, far-left policies will be blocked by the Court (provided they even pass Congress).

Don't you get it Picairn? Smugness and self-righteousness are much more important than the practical implications of giving Donald Trump another victory.
We have to stop Joe Biden, because simply turning our country back to the right direction isn't enough.

WE WANT IT ALL AND WE WANT IT NOW!!!

Biden isn’t going to turn the country anywhere. The national will still be on the wrong track but at least will get half assed shit so yay.

[Stellonia]

The leftists' best course of action would be to demand, in exchange for their votes, that the Democratic Party implement ranked-choice voting for presidential elections and proportional voting for congressional elections. This would end the two-party system and enable the formation of a viable leftist party, thereby strengthening their ability to implement the other reforms they want.

[Picairn]

Nice rant. Now here’s the thing about Washington; Sanders was never going to get any of his stuff passed as is. Everyone knew that. However because the plan was more out there it would get watered down to where Biden currently stands.

Now you may think “oh so why don’t you just vote Biden then” because Biden isn’t going to get what he wants passed either and it will also get watered down. That $15 wage? That’s becomes $9. GND? Half measures to half heartedly stop global warming. UHC? Again it will get watered down to a corporate mess.

This is why you need to start on the fringe and go from then not start from the center and in up in the right wing. And don’t tell me it can’t be done the republicans do it all the damn time.

Nice fantasy. Bernie's far-left policies are what crushed him in the primary. Not even black and working-class voters sided with him. The majority went to Biden. It seems apparent to me that extremists are a minority in America.

Bernie Sanders put his far-left policies to the test. Instead of being accepted, they were rejected by an overwhelming majority. Better to have incremental progress than zero progress.

[Thermodolia]

Nice rant. Now here’s the thing about Washington; Sanders was never going to get any of his stuff passed as is. Everyone knew that. However because the plan was more out there it would get watered down to where Biden currently stands.

Now you may think “oh so why don’t you just vote Biden then” because Biden isn’t going to get what he wants passed either and it will also get watered down. That $15 wage? That’s becomes $9. GND? Half measures to half heartedly stop global warming. UHC? Again it will get watered down to a corporate mess.

This is why you need to start on the fringe and go from then not start from the center and in up in the right wing. And don’t tell me it can’t be done the republicans do it all the damn time.

Nice fantasy. Bernie's far-left policies are what crushed him in the primary. Not even black and working-class voters sided with him. The majority went to Biden. It seems apparent to me that extremists are a minority in America.

It’s not a fantasy but a tried and true negotiation tactic. And more people went to Biden because he reminds a lot of people of Obama. And no Sanders policies are hardly extremist unless you want to call half of Bidens policies extremist too.

Bernie Sanders put his far-left policies to the test. Instead of being accepted, they were rejected by an overwhelming majority. Better to have incremental progress than zero progress.

Sanders doesn’t have far left policies. I didn’t hear him arguing for the destruction of the capitalist system.

Is it though? Because if the change is not noticeable enough to do anything other than token change have we really done anything? Remember Biden told a group of CEOs and super rich that nothing will change, but because Trump Man Bad we need to elect Biden or else something bad will happen probably

[Thermodolia]

The leftists' best course of action would be to demand, in exchange for their votes, that the Democratic Party implement ranked-choice voting for presidential elections and proportional voting for congressional elections. This would end the two-party system and enable the formation of a viable leftist party, thereby strengthening their ability to implement the other reforms they want.

As much as I’d love for that to happen it’s unfortunately a pipe dream that won’t happen short of a coup or revolution.

[Chan Island]

People vote based on endorsements?

Some people do, yes. If somebody you greatly admired in the public sphere endorsed a candidate, I'd be surprised if you weren't going to least give them a second look. Especially if you weren't that engaged in the political process.

[Picairn]

It’s not a fantasy but a tried and true negotiation tactic. And more people went to Biden because he reminds a lot of people of Obama. And no Sanders policies are hardly extremist unless you want to call half of Bidens policies extremist too.

Sanders doesn’t have far left policies. I didn’t hear him arguing for the destruction of the capitalist system.

Is it though? Because if the change is not noticeable enough to do anything other than token change have we really done anything? Remember Biden told a group of CEOs and super rich that nothing will change, but because Trump Man Bad we need to elect Biden or else something bad will happen probably

As I have stated, how can you explain that 90% punitive tax rate on the rich and banning private insurance, which many European countries don't even have, are "hardly extremist"? You didn't answer the question.

He appears to be moderate only to the extremists on the edge of a political compass. For those who have a modicum of knowledge on European countries' specific policies, yes he is far-left. Re-read my question.

Where did insisting on radical change lead you to? A massive rejection from the voters. It's like they dislike extremists or something. And yeah if Trump gets re-elected something very bad would happen, he would achieve a conservative majority on the Supreme Court by replacing RBG, rendering the Progressive agenda destroyed.

[Thermodolia]

It’s not a fantasy but a tried and true negotiation tactic. And more people went to Biden because he reminds a lot of people of Obama. And no Sanders policies are hardly extremist unless you want to call half of Bidens policies extremist too.

Sanders doesn’t have far left policies. I didn’t hear him arguing for the destruction of the capitalist system.

Is it though? Because if the change is not noticeable enough to do anything other than token change have we really done anything? Remember Biden told a group of CEOs and super rich that nothing will change, but because Trump Man Bad we need to elect Biden or else something bad will happen probably

As I have stated, how can you explain that 90% punitive tax rate on the rich and banning private insurance, which many European countries don't even have, are "hardly extremist"? You didn't answer the question.

Because we in the US did it back in the 50s and 60s.

He appears to be moderate only to the extremists on the edge of a political compass. For those who have a modicum of knowledge on European countries' specific policies, yes he is far-left. Re-read my question.

He’s really not far left compared to Europeans either. He’d fit right in with most of the EU left.

Where did insisting on radical change lead you to? A massive rejection from the voters. It's like they dislike extremists or something.

Strange because Trump proposed radical change and got elected. Or maybe it’s just that the powers that be don’t want radical change because then they’d actually have to work for their shit.

And yeah if Trump gets re-elected something very bad would happen, he would achieve a conservative majority on the Supreme Court by replacing RBG, rendering the Progressive agenda destroyed.

The conservatives already have a majority on the court. Replacing RBG won’t do anything because the court is already conservative.