What Would It Take for You to Vote for Biden?

[West Leas Oros 2]

Doesn't change that the blood of innocent people was spilled on his orders, and the orders of his cronies. War crime or not, he has blood on his hands.

You mean like Trump and the air strike?

Saying “but Trump!” doesn’t absolve Biden.

[The Black Forrest]

You mean like Trump and the air strike?

Saying “but Trump!” doesn’t absolve Biden.

Rather simple arguments don’t prove much either. You can’t wag your finger at one and absolve the other. Either you are all in on a belief or not.....

[Kannap]

Doesn't change that the blood of innocent people was spilled on his orders, and the orders of his cronies. War crime or not, he has blood on his hands.

You mean like Trump and the air strike?

So they're both war criminals, now what?

[West Leas Oros 2]

Cool, doesn't change the fact that Biden is a piece of shit, just like the rest of the Democratic establishment. It's people like him that got us into the shit we're in now. Neoliberalism was doomed to lead us into this dumpster fire. You say these things as though America wasn't already living under tyranny.

So you think that Bernie throughout most of his career until 2016 was a piece of shit?

Interesting take.

You mean the same Bernie Sanders who was an Independent until that time? The same Bernie Sanders who opposed the Patriot Act? The same one who led protests against segregation? Yeah, real establishment vibes coming off him. Must be why the Democrats are denouncing him as a radical :^)

[West Leas Oros 2]

Saying “but Trump!” doesn’t absolve Biden.

Rather simple arguments don’t prove much either. You can’t wag your finger at one and absolve the other. Either you are all in on a belief or not.....

Good thing that’s not what I’m doing. Ironically, you’re the one doing that. I didn’t say Trump wasn’t a war criminal and essentially a dictator. It’s clear to see he is. And yes, Trump is the greater of two evils. So what? All that proves is we have two terrible people on the ballots.

[Centai Mal]

War Criminal? Marginally better? Ok?......What’s Biden’s version of Katyn?

Closest example I can think of? Probably Iraq War. But of course, Biden wasn’t the only one responsible. Still, he shares the blame.

Sure, I guess you can blame him for falling for the lies of Paul Wolfowitz and Donald Rumsfeld.

[Centai Mal]

So you think that Bernie throughout most of his career until 2016 was a piece of shit?

Interesting take.

You mean the same Bernie Sanders who was an Independent until that time? The same Bernie Sanders who opposed the Patriot Act? The same one who led protests against segregation? Yeah, real establishment vibes coming off him. Must be why the Democrats are denouncing him as a radical :^)

Remind me again which protests he "lead"?

[West Leas Oros 2]

You mean the same Bernie Sanders who was an Independent until that time? The same Bernie Sanders who opposed the Patriot Act? The same one who led protests against segregation? Yeah, real establishment vibes coming off him. Must be why the Democrats are denouncing him as a radical :^)

Remind me again which protests he "lead"?

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... nt/479739/

According to this article, it was mostly on-campus stuff. And he didn’t lead all of it.

[Centai Mal]

I feel like most of these people are either too young to remember 9/11 and the aftermath, and have never been educated on the political maneuvering that went on behind the scenes, or are so committed to their ideology that they are willing to twist reality to fit their narrative.

It also feels like a lot of these people have nothing on the line. Sure, watching Trump is gross for a lot of them, but it doesn’t inspire any sort of urge to remove him from office because there’s really nothing on the line. I’m legitimately terrified of 4 more years under Trump. He commanded LEOs to shoot and gas protestors so he could have a photo op at a church. He’s threatening to deploy the military against Americans. He seems to relish is destroying hard-won progress of minorities. I looked my dad in the eye an hour ago and said “if he official invokes the Insurrection Act, I am leaving the country” because I am scared of the power that gives him. I cannot sleep at night, I worry how much longer my mental health can take this strain. I am dead serious when I say that four more years of Trump will kill me.

Cool, doesn't change the fact that Biden is a piece of shit, just like the rest of the Democratic establishment. It's people like him that got us into the shit we're in now. Neoliberalism was doomed to lead us into this dumpster fire. You say these things as though America wasn't already living under tyranny.

Hmm, no, an undercurrent of racism and bigotry is what got us here. Tyranny has an actual meaning, which you don't seem to understand, but try again, sweet cheeks.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Closest example I can think of? Probably Iraq War. But of course, Biden wasn’t the only one responsible. Still, he shares the blame.

Sure, I guess you can blame him for falling for the lies of Paul Wolfowitz and Donald Rumsfeld.

At least he admitted his mistake later... oh wait.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Cool, doesn't change the fact that Biden is a piece of shit, just like the rest of the Democratic establishment. It's people like him that got us into the shit we're in now. Neoliberalism was doomed to lead us into this dumpster fire. You say these things as though America wasn't already living under tyranny.

Hmm, no, an undercurrent of racism and bigotry is what got us here. Tyranny has an actual meaning, which you don't seem to understand, but try again, sweet cheeks.

Racism and bigotry are inevitable under Capitalism. When will you liberals understand that? Capitalism perpetuates racism.

[Centai Mal]

Remind me again which protests he "lead"?

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... nt/479739/

According to this article, it was mostly on-campus stuff. And he didn’t lead all of it.

He didn't seem to lead any of it, if we read the same article

[Centai Mal]

Hmm, no, an undercurrent of racism and bigotry is what got us here. Tyranny has an actual meaning, which you don't seem to understand, but try again, sweet cheeks.

Racism and bigotry are inevitable under Capitalism. When will you liberals understand that? Capitalism perpetuates racism.

Oh, nevermind, you're a tankie. Venezuela sounds swell right now

[West Leas Oros 2]

Racism and bigotry are inevitable under Capitalism. When will you liberals understand that? Capitalism perpetuates racism.

Oh, nevermind, you're a tankie. Venezuela sounds swell right now

you know you fucked up when even Fox News knows Venezuela isn’t socialist. But sure, majority privately owned economy is totally socialist. Forget that stuff about seizing the means of production. Also, I’m a Marxist, not a Stalinist.

[Centai Mal]

Oh, nevermind, you're a tankie. Venezuela sounds swell right now

you know you fucked up when even Fox News knows Venezuela isn’t socialist. But sure, majority privately owned economy is totally socialist. Forget that stuff about seizing the means of production. Also, I’m a Marxist, not a Stalinist.

"I'mma quote an article from 2010 because I have a tenuous grasp on reality and how the real world functions"

You're white, ain't ya

[West Leas Oros 2]

you know you fucked up when even Fox News knows Venezuela isn’t socialist. But sure, majority privately owned economy is totally socialist. Forget that stuff about seizing the means of production. Also, I’m a Marxist, not a Stalinist.

"I'mma quote an article from 2010 because I have a tenuous grasp on reality and how the real world functions"

You're white, ain't ya

And now you’re casually pulling the race card instead of using an actual argument. Cool. Also, read this page if you want more recent data. Satisfied, Ben Shapiro?

[Picairn]

1) Bernie Sanders' proposed taxes are not extreme. It's not as if there would be no millionaires, there would still be plenty of people with tens of hundreds of millions. Hell, Bezos would still be a billionaire if he lost 90% of his wealth.

2) Private health insurance should not exist. In fact, public health insurance should not exist because health insurance itself should not exist. We should have a national health system. Bernie Sanders' Medicare for All is a centrist compromise.

3) Charter schools and school choice do not solve the underlying problem of public schools being underfunded in the first place. We can make every school in the country a good school with enough money and work.

1) His taxes are extreme, considering the fact that European countries slashed their wealth taxes and lowered the top income tax (France under Hollande is a good example of this). "there would still be plenty of people with tens of hundreds of millions." Press X to doubt. Under 90% punitive taxes, the majority of millionaires' wealth will disappear, or the rich will simply move out of the country. It is this very fact that European countries axed their taxes on the rich. Furthermore, how can you tax the rich's "net worth" which is mostly stocks? Converting stocks to money may tank the value of the stocks, which gives you a lower amount of taxes. It seems obvious to me that some socialists and social democrats need to learn economics. Net worth isn't money in a top-secret vault waiting for the government to collect.

2) What you referred to is the UK's NHS, where all of the health system is run by the government. Yet it is one of the worst healthcare systems in Europe. The UK allows their citizens to purchase private insurance to fill in the gap or just to get faster treatment, just like other universal healthcare systems in the world. Wishing for health insurance to go away is a fantasy, because government-run systems aren't perfect and they may bring you a myriad of new problems. Private insurance is one of the best solutions to address wait times, low-quality care, etc.

3) Really? For years the federal government has thrown money into public schools. K-12 education spending ballooned over the last three decades. Yet many problems persist, and new problems appear. No, the education system needs a complete overhaul, but politicians are too busy fighting among themselves to actually work on a real solution. What makes you think throwing bigger bags of money to public schools will make a difference this time? So far, charter schools are a necessary temporary solution to the inability of politicians to address the real problems.

[Picairn]

Not really. Inn most other countries he'd be considered center-left, but the right wing dominates American politics.

What is center-left in punitive 90% marginal tax rate and banning private insurance, which many other European countries don't do?

[Picairn]

Yes, all of these are relatively moderate proposals that leftists like myself view as a compromise.

I guess everything is "relatively moderate" to the extremists on the edge of a political compass.

[Cisairse]

Yes, all of these are relatively moderate proposals that leftists like myself view as a compromise.

I guess everything is "relatively moderate" to the extremists on the edge of a political compass.

Well, no, not everything. The policies that we support are not considered moderate to us, naturally.

[The Grims]

Yes, all of these are relatively moderate proposals that leftists like myself view as a compromise.

I guess everything is "relatively moderate" to the extremists on the edge of a political compass.

What's extremist about these policies, which are common in most western countries ?
Calling them extremist seems extremist..

[Gormwood]

And here I thought it was just Republicans coddling Trump.

[Solomons Land]

Rather simple arguments don’t prove much either. You can’t wag your finger at one and absolve the other. Either you are all in on a belief or not.....

Good thing that’s not what I’m doing. Ironically, you’re the one doing that. I didn’t say Trump wasn’t a war criminal and essentially a dictator. It’s clear to see he is. And yes, Trump is the greater of two evils. So what? All that proves is we have two terrible people on the ballots.

I cannot see what President Trump has done that would constitute war crimes and by virtually no definition of "dictator" is Trump a dictator. I dislike Trump too, but you cannot accuse him of things he did not do.

[Picairn]

What's extremist about these policies, which are common in most western countries ?
Calling them extremist seems extremist..

Re-read my previous post. What is moderate in punitive 90% tax rate and banning private insurance, which many European countries don't do? Even the UK and Australia allow citizens to purchase private insurance with the same benefits to skip the waiting lines in getting treatment.

[Luna Amore]

Cool, doesn't change the fact that Biden is a piece of shit, just like the rest of the Democratic establishment. It's people like him that got us into the shit we're in now. Neoliberalism was doomed to lead us into this dumpster fire. You say these things as though America wasn't already living under tyranny.

Hmm, no, an undercurrent of racism and bigotry is what got us here. Tyranny has an actual meaning, which you don't seem to understand, but try again, sweet cheeks.

Let's lay off the personal snipes. It can easily slip into flamebaiting/flaming territory.