What Would It Take for You to Vote for Biden?

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

I don’t really agree with that, I believe people should vote for group (class) interests not personal interests.

I’ll agree with that. Though I don’t believe that voting for Biden is in the interest of any class besides the rich and Academics

Even if he represents the bourgeoisie, a Democratic-led White House would be better on things like curbing carbon emissions and increasing subsidies for green energy, protecting natural resources, expanding STEM education and stuff... Republicans just want to cut taxes and cut budgets, and appoint climate deniers to run the EPA.

[Thermodolia]

I don’t think having a contrary opinion = the death of left-wing policies in the nation. How do you know he won’t support the Communication Workers’ strike next year? I don’t think the future of left-wing policies in America should hinge on guilting everyone who’s not already onboard with your party into... I don’t know. A state of enlightened guilt? It seems so futile.

But they just said they're ok with stacking the SCoTUS 7 Conservative-2 Liberal/Progressive.

If you didn't know, the SCoTUS is responsible for interpreting the Constitution and policies that make it past Congress, and if that's the case then the right-wing conservatives of the nation will have unprecedented political power to shape the nation in away way they wish as well as killing any liberal/progressive/left-wing in general policy that makes it through Congress.

If you're fine with the SCoTUS being stacked in such a way, then you're fine with killing any left-wing policy and neutering any left-wing movement for the next 50 years. There's no way around this no matter what kind of mental gymnastics you preform.

Except that’s not how SCOTUS works. If Congress passes a left wing law it doesn’t get automatically reviewed by them. Someone would have to make a case against it. It takes a long time for things to make its way through the court system

[New haven america]

lol, if you went by that logic you'd be calling me a progressive or socialist. Or from a right-wing POV, a left-wing authoritarian much like yourself.

Again, more uncreative shit that's been repeated 1,000 times. Get new material please, you're boring me.

You’ve never said anything that’s remotely close to either of those

From your POV.

And I've never said anything remotely liberal either but that didn't stop you from repeating lazy-ass buzzwords did it?

[Glamour]

I think you may be confused. Anyone who has taken the political compass test can see that the x-axis is left versus right (economic), while the y-axis is liberal versus authoritarian.

I’m not confused at all. Quite the contrary.

The political compass is a horribly stupid thing.

If you are fine with a conservative majority on the Supreme Court and a Trump presidency, you will be living in a right-wing authoritarian state, potentially irreversibly.

I never said I’d be fine with a Trump Presidency, I just said that I didn’t care as much about a conservative court. Besides conservative doesn’t automatically equal right wing.

Just because someone has told you that liberalism is not the exact same thing as leftism (which is true, because they exist along different axes) does not mean that a right-wing authoritarian state is going to help you if you are voting for the Green party because you are a leftist. Quite the opposite.

NHA is a liberal who thinks that they can bully me into voting for Biden because the court will be filled with ebil conservatives.

It’s not working. And I’m only voting green because they are the only real option left and Trump has done to many stupid things over the pandemic for me to even consider voting for him

No, you are misunderstanding me completely. I don't care what your opinion of the political compass test is. I am telling you that it is a very well established and basic aspect of political science that in the social sphere of politics, you have either authoritarian or liberal. You then have, in the economic sphere, left-wing versus right wing economics.

You can have an authoritarian left-wing state, like North Korea, or an authoritarian right-wing state, like Russia, or even arguably China, which is currently only communist in name alone. You can have a liberal society which is left-wing, like New Zealand, or one which is right-wing, like the UK.

One of the reasons the conservative right-wing (Trump is both, although has presented him more socially liberal than previous conservative right-wing presidents have in the past, during his first term, at least) is doing so well, is because it has led people like you to believe that liberals are against leftism. They may be more right-wing than you would like, but if you have a conservative majority Supreme Court and a right-wing president, by definition you will live in a right-wing authoritarian state.

If I was a US citizen, and a leftist, I would clearly see therefore that there was a precipice about to be reached and that if my argument was that because I was too left-wing to vote for a liberal (something which makes no inherent sense, as the two are not mutually inclusive) that the best option was to allow an authoritarian conservative judiciary and a right-wing president who would then be enabled by said judiciary to become as openly right-wing as he wished - while already having demonstrated himself to be extremely authoritarian as well as extremely right wing - then I would have to take a moment, and after that moment I might consider myself confused.

[New haven america]

But they just said they're ok with stacking the SCoTUS 7 Conservative-2 Liberal/Progressive.

If you didn't know, the SCoTUS is responsible for interpreting the Constitution and policies that make it past Congress, and if that's the case then the right-wing conservatives of the nation will have unprecedented political power to shape the nation in away way they wish as well as killing any liberal/progressive/left-wing in general policy that makes it through Congress.

If you're fine with the SCoTUS being stacked in such a way, then you're fine with killing any left-wing policy and neutering any left-wing movement for the next 50 years. There's no way around this no matter what kind of mental gymnastics you preform.

Except that’s not how SCOTUS works. If Congress passes a left wing law it doesn’t get automatically reviewed by them. Someone would have to make a case against it. It takes a long time for things to make its way through the court system

lol Good one. Expecting right-wing conservatives in the government to actually follow the rules.

[New haven america]

I think you may be confused. Anyone who has taken the political compass test can see that the x-axis is left versus right (economic), while the y-axis is liberal versus authoritarian.

I’m not confused at all. Quite the contrary.

The political compass is a horribly stupid thing.

If you are fine with a conservative majority on the Supreme Court and a Trump presidency, you will be living in a right-wing authoritarian state, potentially irreversibly.

I never said I’d be fine with a Trump Presidency, I just said that I didn’t care as much about a conservative court. Besides conservative doesn’t automatically equal right wing.

Just because someone has told you that liberalism is not the exact same thing as leftism (which is true, because they exist along different axes) does not mean that a right-wing authoritarian state is going to help you if you are voting for the Green party because you are a leftist. Quite the opposite.

1. NHA is a liberal who thinks that they can 2. bully me into voting for Biden because the court will be filled with ebil conservatives.

3. It’s not working. And I’m only voting green because they are the only real option left and Trump has done to many stupid things over the pandemic for me to even consider voting for him

1. Except I'm not a liberal.
2a. No, I'm calling out your naïve behavior for what it actually is.
2b. You're the only one here who's done any form of bullying.
3. Good for you. Doesn't change the fact that it means you're actually as left-wing as you claim to be.

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

I don’t think having a contrary opinion = the death of left-wing policies in the nation. How do you know he won’t support the Communication Workers’ strike next year? I don’t think the future of left-wing policies in America should hinge on guilting everyone who’s not already onboard with your party into... I don’t know. A state of enlightened guilt? It seems so futile.

But they just said they're ok with stacking the SCoTUS 7 Conservative-2 Liberal/Progressive.

If you didn't know, the SCoTUS is responsible for interpreting the Constitution and policies that make it past Congress, and if that's the case then the right-wing conservatives of the nation will have unprecedented political power to shape the nation in away way they wish as well as killing any liberal/progressive/left-wing in general policy that makes it through Congress.

If you're fine with the SCoTUS being stacked in such a way, then you're fine with killing any left-wing policy and neutering any left-wing movement for the next 50 years. There's no way around this no matter what kind of mental gymnastics you preform.

Even if Joe Biden wins the election, RBG could die months after the election and Trump could still choose her replacement with the current Senate... She might even die before the election, which could render this whole point moot. In the end it’s not just about the Supreme Court, there are also all the other branches of government, and everything at the state and local levels.

[Glamour]

But they just said they're ok with stacking the SCoTUS 7 Conservative-2 Liberal/Progressive.

If you didn't know, the SCoTUS is responsible for interpreting the Constitution and policies that make it past Congress, and if that's the case then the right-wing conservatives of the nation will have unprecedented political power to shape the nation in away way they wish as well as killing any liberal/progressive/left-wing in general policy that makes it through Congress.

If you're fine with the SCoTUS being stacked in such a way, then you're fine with killing any left-wing policy and neutering any left-wing movement for the next 50 years. There's no way around this no matter what kind of mental gymnastics you preform.

Even if Joe Biden wins the election, RBG could die months after the election and Trump could still choose her replacement with the current Senate... She might even die before the election, which could render this whole point moot. In the end it’s not just about the Supreme Court, there are also all the other branches of government, and everything at the state and local levels.

When there was a Republican majority, before the 2016 election, they refused to confirm Obama's SCOTUS nominee because there was an impending election.

[Thermodolia]

I’m not confused at all. Quite the contrary.

The political compass is a horribly stupid thing.


I never said I’d be fine with a Trump Presidency, I just said that I didn’t care as much about a conservative court. Besides conservative doesn’t automatically equal right wing.


NHA is a liberal who thinks that they can bully me into voting for Biden because the court will be filled with ebil conservatives.

It’s not working. And I’m only voting green because they are the only real option left and Trump has done to many stupid things over the pandemic for me to even consider voting for him

No, you are misunderstanding me completely. I don't care what your opinion of the political compass test is. I am telling you that it is a very well established and basic aspect of political science that in the social sphere of politics, you have either authoritarian or liberal. You then have, in the economic sphere, left-wing versus right wing economics.

You can have an authoritarian left-wing state, like North Korea, or an authoritarian right-wing state, like Russia, or even arguably China, which is currently only communist in name alone

I know what the political compass is. I don’t need to be talked down to like I’m an idiot.

One of the reasons the conservative right-wing (Trump is both, although has presented him more socially liberal than previous conservative right-wing presidents have in the past, during his first term, at least) is doing so well, is because it has led people like you to believe that liberals are against leftism.

Liberals are against leftism. This has been the case for decades. Liberals would rather side with the capitalists than the leftists.

They may be more right-wing than you would like, but if you have a conservative majority Supreme Court and a right-wing president, by definition you will live in a right-wing authoritarian state.

The US is already right wing authoritarian. Where have you been for the last century?

If I was a US citizen, and a leftist, I would clearly see therefore that there was a precipice about to be reached and that if my argument was that because I was too left-wing to vote for a liberal (something which makes no inherent sense, as the two are not mutually inclusive)

I’m not going to vote for a liberal. Especially not one who says that nothing will change. I refuse to do it.

was to allow an authoritarian conservative judiciary and a right-wing president who would then be enabled by said judiciary to become as openly right-wing as he wished - while already having demonstrated himself to be extremely authoritarian as well as extremely right wing - then I would have to take a moment, and after that moment I might consider myself confused.

Then you really don’t understand where I sit politically because you like to use the political compass a bit too much. Im not in the libertarian-left quadrant, I’m closer to the auth-center than not

[Thermodolia]

Even if Joe Biden wins the election, RBG could die months after the election and Trump could still choose her replacement with the current Senate... She might even die before the election, which could render this whole point moot. In the end it’s not just about the Supreme Court, there are also all the other branches of government, and everything at the state and local levels.

When there was a Republican majority, before the 2016 election, they refused to confirm Obama's SCOTUS nominee because there was an impending election.

And you think they’d just sit back and do nothing if RBG died before the election?

[New haven america]

1. He did not.
2. No, the young spent most of their times on sites like Reddit that were posting daily pro-Sanders propaganda saying he'd be a shoo in and get a landslide victory the likes of which the nation has never seen.

And then he didn't because the youth vote didn't go out and vote, which lost him several important elections like ST, as well as having an idiot campaign team spending most of their time attacking most of the other candidates and earning him no mutual favor there. But unlike a lot of his supports he took the L like an adult and said "Eh, better luck next time, vote for my friend Joe to keep Trump from getting a second term."

In this case he has no one else to blame for his loss but himself, and he admits that. It's his hardcore supporters who still don't get that.

That is actually one of the things that made me upset with progressives in the media. Bernie told us that he would endorse whoever won the nomination from the beginning, and he is keeping his word, that is not a bad thing, but every feels so betrayed. Bernie is Blue No Matter Who, that does not mean you have to be (even if you supported Bernie). Bernie considers Biden a friend, well being in Congress so long they probably have gotten to know each other at least a little, and calling other politicians friends is good political rhetoric. People got mad that Bernie was not fighting enough that he was being too nice, they argued he was buying into the angry Bernie Bro myth (which is a myth, Bernie had support from people of all backgrounds, it just leaned in the favor of young people in general, but it was not especially male or white or violent or angry). I considered Bernie being a nice guy to be a positive, it ultimately does not matter because I care about policy over personality (I would elect the most disagreeable person ever if I could be assured they would pass the policies I want), but I actually mostly enjoyed Bernie's personality. I also agree that he did a poor campaign, but even poor campaigns can win if they have broad support and aren't being unfairly disadvantaged. 1. The DNC went out of their way to discredit Bernie Sanders, Andrew Yang, Tulsi Gabbard, and Marriane Williamson (whom I think is a good person with some good ideas and who ran because she really thought she could make a difference, not so she could sell books, but is completely unqualified for the Presidency, especially due to her anti-vaxxer stance).

2. For reference, I still plan to vote for Howie Hawkins because Biden has not given me anything, and if he does not care about my vote enough to try and appeal to me, then I will use my vote to send a message. This is not wasting my vote, it is investing my vote in future elections after 2020. 3. Though if Biden will give something of substance to leftists I will consider voting for him. Though it does not matter, I live in Maryland, a safe blue state, it is almost certain that all 10 of Maryland electoral votes is going to Biden, regardless if I vote for Biden, vote third party/independent, just not vote, or any other option really. However, voting third party might scare the Maryland Democrats to consider appealing to leftists if they don't want to be voted out in the next election (assuming they aren't voted out this time, I really hope Steny Hoyer loses his reelection, I already voted for his progressive challenger MaKayala Wilkes).

1. No they didn't, the DNC was fair to Yang, Gabbard, and Williamson. Why? Because they're registered Dems. Hell, the DNC was actually super nice to Bernie by allowing him to participate in the debates and go to their functions, because he's not a democrat, he's an independent, he's technically not eligible for any of the things they did for him or allowed him to do.
2. Except he has, because most of his campaign promises and ideas are mostly similar to Sanders' and Warren's promises.
3. He has, multiple times, but apparently his site is locked away behind black magic or something, so here you go: https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/

[Thermodolia]

Except that’s not how SCOTUS works. If Congress passes a left wing law it doesn’t get automatically reviewed by them. Someone would have to make a case against it. It takes a long time for things to make its way through the court system

lol Good one. Expecting right-wing conservatives in the government to actually follow the rules.

They’ve done it so far. I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t stop

[Kannap]

Even if Joe Biden wins the election, RBG could die months after the election and Trump could still choose her replacement with the current Senate... She might even die before the election, which could render this whole point moot. In the end it’s not just about the Supreme Court, there are also all the other branches of government, and everything at the state and local levels.

When there was a Republican majority, before the 2016 election, they refused to confirm Obama's SCOTUS nominee because there was an impending election.

Rest assured that same Republican majority would rush a confirmation before Biden takes office (if he wins) if given the chance.

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

Even if Joe Biden wins the election, RBG could die months after the election and Trump could still choose her replacement with the current Senate... She might even die before the election, which could render this whole point moot. In the end it’s not just about the Supreme Court, there are also all the other branches of government, and everything at the state and local levels.

When there was a Republican majority, before the 2016 election, they refused to confirm Obama's SCOTUS nominee because there was an impending election.

Exactly, Mitch McConnell is a snake. And unless Democrats can unseat Mitch McConnell in the middle of the legislative session, I don’t think the Senate is going to be holding up any of Trump’s SCOTUS nominees (in the event of an unexpected vacancy) just because of an impending election.

[New haven america]

But they just said they're ok with stacking the SCoTUS 7 Conservative-2 Liberal/Progressive.

If you didn't know, the SCoTUS is responsible for interpreting the Constitution and policies that make it past Congress, and if that's the case then the right-wing conservatives of the nation will have unprecedented political power to shape the nation in away way they wish as well as killing any liberal/progressive/left-wing in general policy that makes it through Congress.

If you're fine with the SCoTUS being stacked in such a way, then you're fine with killing any left-wing policy and neutering any left-wing movement for the next 50 years. There's no way around this no matter what kind of mental gymnastics you preform.

Even if Joe Biden wins the election, RBG could die months after the election and Trump could still choose her replacement with the current Senate... She might even die before the election, which could render this whole point moot. In the end it’s not just about the Supreme Court, there are also all the other branches of government, and everything at the state and local levels.

Nah, when there was a Rep majority during the 2016 election they refused to let any of Obama's choices go through, so I doubt the Left members of Congress wouldn't return the favor.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Even if Joe Biden wins the election, RBG could die months after the election and Trump could still choose her replacement with the current Senate... She might even die before the election, which could render this whole point moot. In the end it’s not just about the Supreme Court, there are also all the other branches of government, and everything at the state and local levels.

Nah, when there was a Rep majority during the 2016 election they refused to let any of Obama's choices go through, so I doubt the Left members of Congress wouldn't return the favor.

The Democrats can't block a SCOTUS nomination.

[Thermodolia]

I’m not confused at all. Quite the contrary.

The political compass is a horribly stupid thing.


I never said I’d be fine with a Trump Presidency, I just said that I didn’t care as much about a conservative court. Besides conservative doesn’t automatically equal right wing.


1. NHA is a liberal who thinks that they can 2. bully me into voting for Biden because the court will be filled with ebil conservatives.

3. It’s not working. And I’m only voting green because they are the only real option left and Trump has done to many stupid things over the pandemic for me to even consider voting for him

1. Except I'm not a liberal.

And I’m a libertarian.

2a. No, I'm calling out your naïve behavior for what it actually is.

As usual you are confused as to what I want.

2b. You're the only one here who's done any form of bullying.

Pot meet kettle

3. Good for you. Doesn't change the fact that it means you're actually as left-wing as you claim to be.

Gatekeeping is bad, m’kay

[New haven america]

lol Good one. Expecting right-wing conservatives in the government to actually follow the rules.

They’ve done it so far. I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t stop

Oh you mean like the time they wouldn't let any of Obama's SCoTUS candidates go through because they invented this stupid idea that you can't pick a SCoTUS member during a Presidential election.

You know, something that's never happened in the 230+ year history of the nation.

[Kannap]

Even if Joe Biden wins the election, RBG could die months after the election and Trump could still choose her replacement with the current Senate... She might even die before the election, which could render this whole point moot. In the end it’s not just about the Supreme Court, there are also all the other branches of government, and everything at the state and local levels.

Nah, when there was a Rep majority during the 2016 election they refused to let any of Obama's choices go through, so I doubt the Left members of Congress wouldn't return the favor.

McConnell still holds a Senate majority

[Thermodolia]

When there was a Republican majority, before the 2016 election, they refused to confirm Obama's SCOTUS nominee because there was an impending election.

Rest assured that same Republican majority would rush a confirmation before Biden takes office (if he wins) if given the chance.

Like I said back in 2016 if Hillary won you would have seen the senate have the fastest confirmation in history

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

Though it does not matter, I live in Maryland, a safe blue state, it is almost certain that all 10 of Maryland electoral votes is going to Biden, regardless if I vote for Biden, vote third party/independent, just not vote, or any other option really. However, voting third party might scare the Maryland Democrats to consider appealing to leftists if they don't want to be voted out in the next election (assuming they aren't voted out this time, I really hope Steny Hoyer loses his reelection, I already voted for his progressive challenger MaKayala Wilkes).

This is how people should vote.

[Thermodolia]

They’ve done it so far. I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t stop

Oh you mean like the time they wouldn't let any of Obama's SCoTUS candidates go through because they invented this stupid idea that you can't pick a SCoTUS member during a Presidential election.

You know, something that's never happened in the 230+ year history of the nation.

But it was legal. An ass move? Possibly but legal. It’s a shame the Dems didn’t do it first

[Washington Resistance Army]

Oh you mean like the time they wouldn't let any of Obama's SCoTUS candidates go through because they invented this stupid idea that you can't pick a SCoTUS member during a Presidential election.

You know, something that's never happened in the 230+ year history of the nation.

But it was legal. An ass move? Possibly but legal. It’s a shame the Dems didn’t do it first

Reid probably would have tbh. It's thanks to him that the GOP managed to get Kavanaugh and Gorsuch in instead of more moderate people.

[Glamour]

No, you are misunderstanding me completely. I don't care what your opinion of the political compass test is. I am telling you that it is a very well established and basic aspect of political science that in the social sphere of politics, you have either authoritarian or liberal. You then have, in the economic sphere, left-wing versus right wing economics.

You can have an authoritarian left-wing state, like North Korea, or an authoritarian right-wing state, like Russia, or even arguably China, which is currently only communist in name alone

I know what the political compass is. I don’t need to be talked down to like I’m an idiot.

One of the reasons the conservative right-wing (Trump is both, although has presented him more socially liberal than previous conservative right-wing presidents have in the past, during his first term, at least) is doing so well, is because it has led people like you to believe that liberals are against leftism.

Liberals are against leftism. This has been the case for decades. Liberals would rather side with the capitalists than the leftists.

They may be more right-wing than you would like, but if you have a conservative majority Supreme Court and a right-wing president, by definition you will live in a right-wing authoritarian state.

The US is already right wing authoritarian. Where have you been for the last century?

If I was a US citizen, and a leftist, I would clearly see therefore that there was a precipice about to be reached and that if my argument was that because I was too left-wing to vote for a liberal (something which makes no inherent sense, as the two are not mutually inclusive)

I’m not going to vote for a liberal. Especially not one who says that nothing will change. I refuse to do it.

was to allow an authoritarian conservative judiciary and a right-wing president who would then be enabled by said judiciary to become as openly right-wing as he wished - while already having demonstrated himself to be extremely authoritarian as well as extremely right wing - then I would have to take a moment, and after that moment I might consider myself confused.

Then you really don’t understand where I sit politically because you like to use the political compass a bit too much. Im not in the libertarian-left quadrant, I’m closer to the auth-center than not

1. If you know what it is, then fine, but your original comments betrayed that understanding, in that you appear to believe that an increased SCOTUS conservative majority under a Trump presidency would further your cause as a Green leftist because you don't consider yourself a liberal, which is nonsense.

2. It is obviously the most right-wing state in the world, economically, but it has historically been also the most liberal democracy in the world. That could change if you allow a solid majority SCOTUS which is conservative under a second term of an authoritarian right-wing president. You can do what you like, as it is your business, but as I said before, I am well aware that there is currently a conservative majority in the SCOTUS and that the president is currently right-wing. However, there is still a swing vote in the SCOTUS as there has been for generations, and if that president finds himself with a strong conservative SCOTUS majority, he will be totally enabled to be as authoritarian as he wishes, as well as being completely right-wing, which he is and always has been, and as a Green party leftist I am seeking to understand why you believe that such a situation would be preferable where your interests are concerned to a liberal president.

3. I don't care who you vote for, or whether you vote, and I am not telling you to vote or avoid voting for anyone. Actually, I already said that if I were a US citizen, at this point, I would vote Green as well, so I don't see what your problem is. I am talking about ideology.

4. Again, that is fine, but how can you be authoritarian in the centre? What does the centre stand for? You said that you supported strikes, etc. That is decidedly left-wing. You said you will be voting for the Green party, which is left-wing. So again, how does it make any sense to hold that position and also to have no problem with an authoritarian right-wing president and a strong conservative majority SCOTUS for a generation? I am not attacking you, I am genuinely curious as to how you reconcile these views, and if you can't, then I have to assume that you are confused.

[New haven america]

1. Except I'm not a liberal.

1. And I’m a libertarian.

2a. No, I'm calling out your naïve behavior for what it actually is.

2. As usual you are confused as to what I want.

2b. You're the only one here who's done any form of bullying.

3. Pot meet kettle

3. Good for you. Doesn't change the fact that it means you're actually as left-wing as you claim to be.

4. Gatekeeping is bad, m’kay

1. Good for you~
2. You want something that's never going to happen, and that's called naivety.
3. This right here is called "Hypocrisy."
4. Apparently it's only bad when it affects you.