What Would It Take for You to Vote for Biden?

[Mirjt]

This topic is directed toward U.S. Leftists (edit: and Progressives) whom are currently not planning to vote for Biden.

For me:

I do not support Biden or his neo-liberal to deeply conservative viewpoints and policies. I do not trust Biden with important issues. (That said, I don't despise Joe Biden because I believe in loving every single human being). I currently plan to vote for Howie Hawkins (and down ticket for progressive democrats, independents, and third party candidates) in November; though that may not matter because I live in Maryland, a safe blue state, which will probably cast all 10 of its electoral votes for Joe Biden. I am, however, willing to risk a Trump second term to show the Democratic establishment that they need to earn my vote (they don't just get my vote because they aren't the worse option). I already consider Bernie Sanders policies to be a moderate compromise (his policies were social democracy, which is a moderate compromise between socialism and capitalism) so I am hesitant to compromise further; that said I think (or hope) that the left has more power right now, and so offer Biden this deal: I will consider voting for Biden, if he meets all the following conditions (this is the minimum price for my vote):

1. He must adopt at least 90% of each of the following plans published by Bernie Sanders:
A. Medicare for All
B. Green New Deal
C. Ending Mass Incarceration
D. Any 3 Economics Plans (Biden may choose from a list of plans published by Bernie Sanders)

2. He must publish his own plan for improving U.S. Democracy (with ideas like ranked choice voting, multi-member districts, campaign finance reform, public campaign funding, support and protection for non-electoral politics, etc...).

3. He must allow leftists at least 45% influence in the DNC.

4. He must allow leftists to choose his Vice President (we will choose a woman so Biden may keep his campaign promise of having a woman Vice President).

5. He must allow and endorse Bernie Sanders (and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, and Ilhan Omar, and Ayanna Presley, and Rashida Talib, and all the other Progressives in Congress) to handle future Democratic responses to the Covid-19 pandemic.

6. He must, on video, sign a pledge (which will be copied and distributed to anyone who wants a copy) that states that if he does not attempt to fulfill each of the above campaign promises during his first 18 months in office, then he will resign after the 2022 midterm elections.

Note: I am okay with adding other stipulations to the signed pledge, such as swearing on the Christian Bible, or making the pledge a full-fledged legal document that can be used to sue Biden should he break it.

Note: I am not even really sure Biden is aware he needs to win over leftists (or independents, or typically non-voters), he probably thinks that the leftists have no where to go but the Democratic Party and he thinks he already has the votes of the Democrats. In his mind he probably thinks he needs to win over Republicans (which is nearly impossible) and swing voters.

[Cekoviu]

basically just:
- someone using a time machine and convincing 20-year-old him to not sexually harass women
- him unequivocally supporting universal healthcare

atm, i have to begrudgingly thrust my support behind vermin supreme

[UIS Leviathan]

For him to not be practically senile, for a start
I get to choose between a senile idiot or a senile idiot
It’s a hard choice, really

[Liriena]

For one, if he still expects to be the Democrats' candidate, he would have to actually take responsibility for his creepy and predatory behavior towards women and specially towards Tara Reade, and commit to him and the party making amends for how horribly they handled this.

Policy wise, him fully and unequivocally embracing Medicare for all should be at the top of the list. No double-speak, no deflection, no half-arsery. Then he should also support a Green New Deal, a $15/h minimum wage, universal student loan forgiveness and ending the war on drugs. This is all the bare minimum he should do.

Honestly, though? Even with all this stuff I'd still think he should drop out and let someone else run as the Democratic nominee while there's still time, because every day that goes by with Biden still at the front of the party is another day where a bunch of voters get to feel disenfranchised by the alienating self-immolation of the Democrats in the name of some old creep with bad policies.

[Syrel]

At this point, I don't trust him to do anything to help normal working people, no matter what he says. His track record of screwing people over is too long for me to believe he isn't all talk and no action. What it would take for me to vote for him would require him to be a completely different person from what he is now.

[Neanderthaland]

For his opponent to be Trump.

[Outer Sparta]

Well, the both sidesism of NSG has come out in full swing with the hackneyed "but Biden and Trump are the same" arguments over and over again.

[Liriena]

Well, the both sidesism of NSG has come out in full swing with the hackneyed "but Biden and Trump are the same" arguments over and over again.

They aren't the same, but Biden being the lesser evil compared to the omnishambles in chief is not a merit. Lots of pieces of shit are marginally less awful than Trump because they haven't put children in concentration camps or willfully neglected an entire American territory after a natural disaster struck. But if your electoral strategy revolves around framing your candidate and your party as the least grotesquely putrid, you're setting yourself up for failure.

"I'm the lesser evil" is not how you win an election. It's how you rationalize your imminent electoral defeat.

[Outer Sparta]

Well, the both sidesism of NSG has come out in full swing with the hackneyed "but Biden and Trump are the same" arguments over and over again.

They aren't the same, but Biden being the lesser evil compared to the omnishambles in chief is not a merit. Lots of pieces of shit are marginally less awful than Trump because they haven't put children in concentration camps or willfully neglected an entire American territory after a natural disaster struck. But if your electoral strategy revolves around framing your candidate and your party as the least grotesquely putrid, you're setting yourself up for failure.

"I'm the lesser evil" is not how you win an election. It's how you rationalize your imminent electoral defeat.

While it's true that I wanted a more progressive candidate in their primaries (originally supported Warren and then for Bernie), I'm voting for Biden in the general election. Pushing Biden more left is always an option from now to November.

[Zhongshanville]

Nothing. If party primaries do not go well, general elections are a game. Time to play strategically by playing in the opposition's margins. BURN IT! BURN IT TO THE GROUND! AHAHAHAHA!

[Kuuj]

I'm voting for Biden in November, come Hell or high water! He's not my favorite candidate. He's not progressive enough, and there's a lot I don't like about him. But the alternative is either not voting or going with a third-party candidate with no chance of winning - and that's practically giving a vote to Trump.

[Galloism]

I mean, barring some crazy fuckery from Biden (like appointing Kamala Harris as vp, by way of example), it’s probably a done deal. Ideals frequently give way to tactics, unless it’s just unconscionable to take a certain tactical act.

[Liriena]

They aren't the same, but Biden being the lesser evil compared to the omnishambles in chief is not a merit. Lots of pieces of shit are marginally less awful than Trump because they haven't put children in concentration camps or willfully neglected an entire American territory after a natural disaster struck. But if your electoral strategy revolves around framing your candidate and your party as the least grotesquely putrid, you're setting yourself up for failure.

"I'm the lesser evil" is not how you win an election. It's how you rationalize your imminent electoral defeat.

While it's true that I wanted a more progressive candidate in their primaries (originally supported Warren and then for Bernie), I'm voting for Biden in the general election. Pushing Biden more left is always an option from now to November.

That'd be a good option if it wasn't for the Reade stuff and his obvious cognitive decline.

Just because Republican voters are enthusiastic about a senile sexual predator doesn't mean Democratic and independent voters are going to do the same for Biden even if he embraces Medicare for all at the last minute.

[Liriena]

I'm voting for Biden in November, come Hell or high water! He's not my favorite candidate. He's not progressive enough, and there's a lot I don't like about him. But the alternative is either not voting or going with a third-party candidate with no chance of winning - and that's practically giving a vote to Trump.

I'm not saying you shouldn't vote for Biden, but I am saying that Biden doesn't deserve you or anybody's vote right now.

[Zhongshanville]

I'm voting for Biden in November, come Hell or high water! He's not my favorite candidate. He's not progressive enough, and there's a lot I don't like about him. But the alternative is either not voting or going with a third-party candidate with no chance of winning - and that's practically giving a vote to Trump.

You do realize this line of thought only works if you vote for a left-wing third party, right? At least as I understand it. What happens if you vote right third-party?

[Clania Miyal]

We're stuck choosing between dumb and dumber. It's 2016 all over again, but this time, they're both old white rapists instead of just one old white rapist. Biden's neo-liberalism disgusts me--there shouldn't be any such thing as "woke" capitalism. His policies and beliefs disappoint those on both sides of the aisle. And yet no matter how much I dislike him (and I dislike Joe Biden with a vehemence), I have to vote for him, because Trump poses more of a threat to my way of life than Biden.

[Mirjt]

I'm voting for Biden in November, come Hell or high water! He's not my favorite candidate. He's not progressive enough, and there's a lot I don't like about him. But the alternative is either not voting or going with a third-party candidate with no chance of winning - and that's practically giving a vote to Trump.

It is completely reasonable to vote for the lesser of two evils, it is a form of harm reduction and is rational. I do not hold it against anyone who subscribes to the Blue No Matter Who position, because they view it as better than the alternative. That said I would like to expand on some other viewpoints.

For many people, there is no real difference between Biden and Trump, they and most (if not all) of the people they know won't get healthcare, or better wages, or less debt, or more affordable housing, or a cleaner environment, and so on under either administration, why should those people be asked to vote for either the Democratic candidate or the Republican candidate when it literally makes to difference in their lives.

If the Democrats really cared about harm reduction (well they probably would have chosen a different candidate first off), then they wouldn't shame people who want to vote third party, independent, or write-in in November, because that may be what it takes to get people to vote and for down-ballot Democrats (hopefully Progressives) to win their races.

There is also the fact that some people (like myself) may wish to reject lesser evilism. If the major parties believe they will have a captive vote, they have no reason to ever change. The Democrats don't have to listen to the left, because they will always have some group or need that is imperiled worse by the Republicans, because they can always hold you or something else hostage. However, when someone votes for a third party, it sends a message to the major party closest to that third party that if they want that person's vote (something they would especially want in close races), they need to earn it with policies that that person likes and good candidates. It is completely legitimate to vote third party. If the major parties really cared about the spoiler effect costing them the election and allowing the greater evil to win, then they would get rid of it by abolishing first-past-the-post voting and giving us something like ranked choice voting (single-transferrable vote), but they don't because they want to be able to blame those who don't get in line for their failures.

Some may not wish to endorse the electoral system. Afterall almost every major reform or change we got came from outside forces putting pressure on the electoral system, not from within the electoral system. They follow the line of logic that if voting did anything significant, then the ruling class would have found ways to get rid of it, or weaken it, or mute it a long time ago (and I would argue that they did). By voting they may feel they are helping the illusion that we don't need real movements, protests, marches, petitions, strikes, etc... we just need to vote, and actually making change less likely. It is completely legitimate to not vote at all.

Voting third party, independent, write-in, or not voting are not a vote for the opposition. Not voting for Biden is not a vote for Trump, it just not helping Biden beat Trump. Please do not shame people for how they choose to vote or not vote. It is legitimate to vote Blue No Matter Who (for Biden), and to vote third party, or independent, or write-in, or no one, or to not even vote. However, while we should not shame people for their vote, we can discuss, evaluate, and critique the merits of voting for one candidate vs another. This is meant to be a discussion on what Biden can do to win over the people on the left, who currently do not plan to vote for Biden, if Biden even can.

P.S. please no personal attacks against others or candidates, focus on the merits of their arguments, policies, or candidacy.

[Impaled Nazarene]

The only way I vote for Biden is if he becomes a die-hard Communist overnight.

[Gormwood]

You know most answers will be variations of "Renounce the nomination and give it to Bernie!"

[Rhadesia]

I won't.

Biden is a demented rapist.

If the Democratic Party wants my vote, let Biden drop out, let Bernie unsuspend his campaign, let Trump be defeated by a candidate that fits the Green New Deal + M4A + free college + UBI platform.

And yes, the party should adopt the Green New Deal + M4A + free college + UBI platform

[Gormwood]

I won't.

Biden is a demented rapist.

If the Democratic Party wants my vote, let Biden drop out, let Bernie unsuspend his campaign, let Trump be defeated by a candidate that fits the Green New Deal + M4A + free college + UBI platform.

And yes, the party should adopt the Green New Deal + M4A + free college + UBI platform

Called it.

[Heloin]

There's not many people who'd actively make me want to vote for Biden, the problem is he's running against on of those people.

[Mirjt]

I won't.

Biden is a demented rapist.

If the Democratic Party wants my vote, let Biden drop out, let Bernie unsuspend his campaign, let Trump be defeated by a candidate that fits the Green New Deal + M4A + free college + UBI platform.

And yes, the party should adopt the Green New Deal + M4A + free college + UBI platform

Disclaimer: This post is going to go off on a tangent, and is not addressing the primary Biden discussion, please skip this post if you are not interested.

I completely agree that the Democratic Party should adopt the Green New Deal, Medicare for All, Free College, and a Universal Basic Income (UBI).

In fact I would argue we should massive expand our social safety net:

(A) Expand Social Security to ensure that the additionally vulnerable elderly, disabled, and survivors, whom already face greater challenges in wider society and may have additional needs.

(B) Federal Job Guarantee (FJG), to ensure we end involuntary unemployment and achieve full employment. This would involve allowing anyone who cannot or does not want to find a job on the private labor market to apply at some kind of FJG work center where all applicants will receive a job. The jobs will be customized for each applicant to meet their skills, training needs, other needs, and preferences (including work hours). These would be jobs doing useful work (not busy work or bs work) that is usually not done because of a lack of financial justification or profitability, and compiled from lists of work provided by crucial job programs like the Green New Deal, and proposed by state and local governments, non-government organizations, civilians, etc...

(C) Universal Basic Income (UBI), to ensure we end wage slavery and involuntary employment, by providing everyone with a baseline income sufficient to meet their need and engage in economic participation.

(D) Universal Basic Services (UBS), to ensure the people in society have all the things they need to thrive, including:

* Guaranteed Housing, through things like: guaranteed, rent-free (or low-rent), safe, and quality public/social housing for all applicants without exceptions; national rent-control and the expansion of tenant rights and protections; the establishment and subsidization of housing cooperatives and community land trusts and other forms of collective housing; the establishment and subsidization of non-profit community development corporations (CDCs) to build quality, affordable, and eco-friendly housing; taxes on vacant housing to encourage homeowners to sell or rent their excess housing at affordable rates; regulations to make it easier to get affordable mortgages and to refinance in favor of borrowers; etc...

* Guaranteed Healthcare through universal, free-at-point-of-service, comprehensive, and single-payer healthcare insurance.

* Reliable, fare-free (or low-fare), safe, quality, eco-friendly, and comprehensive public transportation (including to the low service locations such as rural communities).

* Universal, Debt-Free/Free (the government covers tuition, schools supplies such as books, and maybe even room and board), and Quality Higher Education. This also includes forgiving all existing student debt.

* Guaranteed access to affordable internet access, which may require the establishment and subsidization of municipal internet service providers, and regulations such as net neutrality and the last mile rule.

* Existing Public Services such as sanitation services, the postal service, public libraries (and while we are at it we should weaken intellectual property laws to expand the public domain), etc...

* Public Banking to help finance government budgets, public goods and services, small businesses, worker buyouts of their workplaces, cooperatives, credit unions, non-government organizations, non-profits, worker unions, etc... while also providing a service to the public, especially the underbanked and the unbanked (which may be through the mechanism of postal banking).

* Science and medical research, which are helpful for improving society just on their own merits

* Emergency hotlines (suicide hotlines, poison control, crisis hotlines, ambulances, firefighters, etc...) - not policing (I am in favor of police abolition)

* Rehabiliation services (not prisons, I am in favor of prison abolition), so that people with addictions can get help, and so that everyone can be sure that if something ever goes wrong and they or those they know ever do or experience serious harm, they can understand what they did wrong and why they did what they did, build up any empathy that may be lacking, make amends if possible, have an opportunity for a happy life, and have help to ensure they never do serious harm again.

* And many, many, many, many more...

P.S. I am starting to think this post ends up dragging on too much under UBS, I may decide to shorten it later.

[The Archregimancy]

American citizenship.

[New Bremerton]

Officially declare an all-out Cold War with China, and be more belligerent and outspoken than Trump currently is. Sever all diplomatic, economic, trade and cultural ties with the PRC and declare it the Evil Empire that it is. Impose crippling economic sanctions to break the Chinese economy and foment a domestic uprising against the CCP. Remember to compel the Democrats to fall in line with a three-line congressional whip or be expelled from the party. This is the most important requirement. China has fucked with the whole world for far too long. It is time the CCP be made to pay for its unforgivable crimes against humanity. If Joe Biden does this, I will consider supporting him over Trump. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Maintain a strong military presence in the Asia-Pacific. Preside over the expansion of NATO into NAIPTO (North Atlantic and Indo-Pacific Treaty Organization) to include Australia, Japan, India, and other allies in a bid to contain Chinese neocolonial aggression. Encircle the fuck out of the PRC and make the Chinese shit their pants. Stand with Hong Kong, Taiwan and other embattled neighbors. Liberate Hong Kong NOW! I want my hometown back.

Investigate China for its failure to contain the coronavirus pandemic. Sue the living daylight out of the CCP and demand reparations.

Continue to hold the WHO to account for its inability or unwillingness to adequately investigate China's role in the 2020 coronavirus pandemic. Call for the resignation of Tedros, Aylward, and other corrupt, top-level officials and lobby for a more impartial, incorruptible replacement to the post of Director-General as some European countries such as Sweden are doing. Only then should funding for the WHO be restored.

Reject the politics of hatred and identity politics on both the intersectional far-left and the white identitarian, incel, far-right, and focus on national unity. Repudiate TYT, Cenk Uygur, Ilhan Omar, Linda Sarsour, Rashida Tlaib, radical feminists, Women's March, MeToo, Black Lives Matter, tankies, antisemites, "anti-Zionists", Students for "Justice" for Palestine, Antifa, Nation of Islam, Louis Farrakhan, Black Hebrew Israelites, etc. Do the same for far-right extremists such as David Duke, the KKK, Richard Spencer, Gavin McInnes, Rebel Media, Proud Boys, etc. Purge the Democratic Party of far-left extremists. This is the second most important requirement.

Pledge to address male suicide, male rape in prisons, domestic violence against men and boys, the anti-male bias in divorce proceedings, and other men's issues. Repudiate the Duluth model as discredited junk science and misandrist misinformation. Hold feminists accountable for the gradual erosion of due process and presumption of innocence. Wholeheartedly push back against their vindictive, emotionally manipulative, psychologically gaslighting, anti-male agenda.

Put an end to gender quotas and adopt an officially neutral stance on encouraging women and girls to work in traditionally male-dominated industries. There is nothing wrong with the latter but everything wrong with the former.

End race-based affirmative action on college campuses, especially against Asian-Americans. Everyone must be treated equally.

Put an end to this talk of "reparations" for African-Americans.

Declare radical Islam to be incompatible with liberal, Western, and American values, and a threat to the American way of life. Bar anyone who holds views incompatible with the liberal, democratic values of the United States from applying to become U.S. citizens.

Make English an official language of the United States. Require all prospective applicants for U.S. citizenship to master the language.

Deport all illegal immigrants. Uphold the rule of law. Illegals should not be allowed to undermine the hard work of the millions of legal immigrants who enter the United States, respect local customs, and obey the law to the letter.

Denounce political correctness in all its forms and let those who espouse woke PC ideology and display zero gratitude to their country of birth know that they can always emigrate for greener pastures.

Issue a Stay-At-Home executive order and adopt South Korea's tried and tested methods to tackle the coronavirus and save lives. Even a draconian Malaysian-style lockdown, where anyone caught violating the lockdown is arrested and charged on the spot with a maximum two-year jail sentence, is better than nothing. The sooner the United States can recover from the pandemic, the sooner it can hold China accountable for its wanton criminal negligence, incompetence, and refusal to take any responsibility whatsoever for its failure to contain the Wuhan coronavirus. That's if the pandemic hasn't run its course by November.

Gradually implement universal healthcare at the local level starting with a handful of major, Democrat-voting cities, with only residents of areas covered by the pilot scheme required to pay the necessary taxes. If successful politically and in practice, begin rolling it out to the suburbs, and finally, the rest of the country. Immunize the United States against future pandemics.

Left-wing, social democratic, economic policies such as the above should be phased in gradually and not implemented overnight. Such policies should aim to uplift the poor and economically disenfranchised regardless of race, religion, creed, gender, sexual orientation, etc, etc. No woke, PC, affirmative action, please.

Adopt Andrew Yang's Freedom Dividend and implement a U.S.$1000/month Universal Basic Income for all U.S. citizens.

Embrace thorium nuclear power as a solution to climate change. Rejoin the 2016 Paris Agreement on Climate Change.

Stand with Israel like Trump has done, more than any other U.S. president in recent history. Kudos to him.

Sever all ties with Saudi Arabia, impose sanctions, and repudiate the genocidal War on Yemen, but maintain Trump's current policy of hostility toward Iran. Put an end to the Saudi-sponsored export of Wahhabism/Salafism of the Zakir Naik sort. This toxic, theocratic ideology is poisoning the Malaysian well where I live.

Mend trade relations with Europe, Japan and other reliable, democratic allies and lift all trade tariffs against them, but continue to maintain trade tariffs against China.

Transition the United States from a presidential democracy to a Westminster-style parliamentary democracy with Irish-style, ranked-choice, proportional representation. Remember to resign as President and stand as Prime Minister. The post of POTUS will be reduced to a ceremonial role with limited reserve powers similar to that of a constitutional monarch, such as Queen Elizabeth II. Be sure to negotiate a coalition/confidence-and-supply arrangement with smaller parties, because your (Joe Biden's) party alone likely won't wield a simple majority in the House of Representatives due to the nature of proportional representation giving broader representation to a wider array of more specific, public interests, and you (JB) need that House majority in order to form a government and approve budgets, including the President's Speech, in the first place.

Enact judicial reforms. The power to nominate Supreme Court Justices should fall to an independent commission answerable only to the Senate to avoid any further politicization of the judiciary. Justices must be nominated by at least two-thirds (67+) of Senators. The President shall play no such role.

In summary, turn the United States into a carbon copy of New Bremerton, in other words.

Finally, be as abrasive and outspoken as Trump. Post offensive shit on Twitter to rile up the far-right, the far-left and the CCP. Be a source of good laughs and entertainment like Trump is. Impress me and I will lend my support for you (Joe Biden).

CORRECTION: Justices nominated by the Independent Commission must be approved, not nominated, by at least two-thirds (67+) of Senators.