MAGAThread XIX: Hambergers, Noble Prizes, & Disinfectant

[Fartsniffage]

If I recall, their paramilitary wing was present.

I don't think that gangs can have a paramilitary wing. Like, it's all paramilitary, though that implies a level of professionalism and training that's obviously not present.

Gangs don't have a website. The Proud Boys are a neo-fascist revolutionary group that is okay with using political violence to achieve their aims.

Terrorists in other words.

[Fahran]

I don't think that gangs can have a paramilitary wing. Like, it's all paramilitary, though that implies a level of professionalism and training that's obviously not present.

Gangs don't have a website. The Proud Boys are a neo-fascist revolutionary group that is okay with using political violence to achieve their aims.

Terrorists in other words.

The Proud Boys aren't neo-fascist and aren't revolutionary. And they're no more akin to terrorists than the communists who march around punching or beating people. The groups are more or less equivalent in terms of how they function. They act like politically motivated sports hooligans.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Gangs don't have a website. The Proud Boys are a neo-fascist revolutionary group that is okay with using political violence to achieve their aims.

Terrorists in other words.

The Proud Boys aren't neo-fascist and aren't revolutionary. And they're no more akin to terrorists than the communists who march around punching or beating people. The groups are more or less equivalent in terms of how they function. They act like politically motivated sports hooligans.

And one of them wants equality, the other wants a genocide. The two are incomperable.

[Fartsniffage]

Gangs don't have a website. The Proud Boys are a neo-fascist revolutionary group that is okay with using political violence to achieve their aims.

Terrorists in other words.

The Proud Boys aren't neo-fascist and aren't revolutionary. And they're no more akin to terrorists than the communists who march around punching or beating people. The groups are more or less equivalent in terms of how they function. They act like politically motivated sports hooligans.

Do those communist groups have a paramilitary wing that they send to marches?

[Northern Davincia]

Threatening state officials occasionally serves a valid purpose, especially if the state is tyrannical.

Thermonuclear take: Imposing coronavirus social distancing and mask measures are TYRANNY.

Well, yes. This is especially true for mandating the shutdown of businesses.

The Proud Boys aren't neo-fascist and aren't revolutionary. And they're no more akin to terrorists than the communists who march around punching or beating people. The groups are more or less equivalent in terms of how they function. They act like politically motivated sports hooligans.

And one of them wants equality, the other wants a genocide. The two are incomperable.

[citation needed]

[Fahran]

And one of them wants equality, the other wants a genocide. The two are incomperable.

As far as I'm aware, the Proud Boys do not support genocidal policies.

[Fahran]

Do those communist groups have a paramilitary wing that they send to marches?

Calling the brawlers associated with the Proud Boys a paramilitary is a bit silly. They're no more a paramilitary than Rose City Antifa's goons. They're a bunch of silly young adults, mostly in their twenties, who are LARPing and getting into street fights. They should be arrested for disorderly conduct, assault, battery, and such, but we do not need to treat them like active domestic terrorist cells until they start robbing banks or planting bombs.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

And one of them wants equality, the other wants a genocide. The two are incomperable.

As far as I'm aware, the Proud Boys do not support genocidal policies.

Given that they’re a neo-fascist group there’s a not so insignificant chance that they probably do, but it’s not like they’d openly admit it.

[The Emerald Legion]

As far as I'm aware, the Proud Boys do not support genocidal policies.

Given that they’re a neo-fascist group there’s a not so insignificant chance that they probably do, but it’s not like they’d openly admit it.

As far as I'm aware they're not that either.

[Fahran]

Given that they’re a neo-fascist group there’s a not so insignificant chance that they probably do, but it’s not like they’d openly admit it.

Except they're not a neo-fascist group. They literally describe themselves as "western chauvinists" but, functionally, that makes them hardline right-wing liberals of some sort, not fascists or neo-fascists. They don't seem to have any issues with interracial marriage, which doesn't really set-off my Neo-Nazi radar. They aren't going out of their way to intimidate ethnic and racial minorities like the Klan. They mostly just pick fights with violent communists and provide a bit of muscle for quasi-dominionists. Still problematic but not for the reasons you seem to think.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

Given that they’re a neo-fascist group there’s a not so insignificant chance that they probably do, but it’s not like they’d openly admit it.

As far as I'm aware they're not that either.

They are.

[Northern Davincia]

As far as I'm aware they're not that either.

They are.

Surely you will provide us evidence.

As far as I'm aware, the Proud Boys do not support genocidal policies.

Given that they’re a neo-fascist group there’s a not so insignificant chance that they probably do, but it’s not like they’d openly admit it.

Wikipedia is not the arbiter on what is or is not neo-fascist.

[Galloism]

So can we abandon the narrative about dirty tricks being seen as bad then since we've more or less established than they're viewed as valid by many when their side is doing it? Censorship? Good when we do it. Intimidation? Good when we do it. Using social media and foreign influence to determine elections? Good when we do it.

Purely on logical grounds, "playing fair" to the point where we are literally forced out of power by illegitimate means is very much not preferable to defeating fascists via playing dirty.

If I'm going to get hurt by playing by the rules, I'm not going to play by the rules.

"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster..... for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

[Valrifell]

Purely on logical grounds, "playing fair" to the point where we are literally forced out of power by illegitimate means is very much not preferable to defeating fascists via playing dirty.

If I'm going to get hurt by playing by the rules, I'm not going to play by the rules.

"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster..... for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

If legitimate political means fail to keep out fascists, is it preferable to lose our democratic political system to fascists if we didn't step outside legitimate means or to play dirty, possibly weakening our democratic heritage, but at least maintaining our democratic institutions?

[The Emerald Legion]

"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster..... for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

If legitimate political means fail to keep out fascists, is it preferable to lose our democratic political system to fascists if we didn't step outside legitimate means or to play dirty, possibly weakening our democratic heritage, but at least maintaining our democratic institutions?

In both cases fascists come to power. What's the difference?

[Fartsniffage]

If legitimate political means fail to keep out fascists, is it preferable to lose our democratic political system to fascists if we didn't step outside legitimate means or to play dirty, possibly weakening our democratic heritage, but at least maintaining our democratic institutions?

In both cases fascists come to power. What's the difference?

They don't. That's the point. During WW2 both the UK and the USA instituted policies that reflected some of what was done in Germany. But they rolled them back after the crisis was over. That's the difference.

[Gormwood]

Nothing says "pathetic" like hacking into children's poorly passworded Roblox accounts to spread Trumpaganda. I mean, are the Roblox demographics really important?

[The Emerald Legion]

In both cases fascists come to power. What's the difference?

They don't. That's the point. During WW2 both the UK and the USA instituted policies that reflected some of what was done in Germany. But they rolled them back after the crisis was over. That's the difference.

And yet oftentimes crisis's are the exact means fascists rise to power on the back of.

[Fahran]

"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster..... for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

I like the passage from Harry Mulisch's "The Assault" because I'm sentimental and excessively romantic.

“Hate is the darkness, that's no good. And yet we've got to hate Fascists, and that's considered perfectly all right. How is that possible? It's because we hate them in the name of the light, I guess, whereas they hate only in the name of darkness. We hate hate itself, and for this reason our hate is better than theirs. But that's why it's more difficult for us. For them everything is very simple, but for us it's more complicated. We've got to become a little bit like them in order to fight them so we become a little bit unlike ourselves. But they don't have that problem; they can do away with us without any qualms. We first have to do away with something inside ourselves before we can do away with them. Not them; they can simply remain themselves, that's why they're so strong. But they'll lose in the end, because they have no light in them. The only thing is, we mustn't become too much like them, mustn't destroy ourselves altogether, otherwise they'll have won in the end...”

[Fartsniffage]

They don't. That's the point. During WW2 both the UK and the USA instituted policies that reflected some of what was done in Germany. But they rolled them back after the crisis was over. That's the difference.

And yet oftentimes crisis's are the exact means fascists rise to power on the back of.

Twice in world history. Unless you have other examples?

[The Emerald Legion]

And yet oftentimes crisis's are the exact means fascists rise to power on the back of.

Twice in world history. Unless you have other examples?

I mean, do you have examples of Fascists rising to power based on Youtube channels and reddit memes?

[Fartsniffage]

Twice in world history. Unless you have other examples?

I mean, do you have examples of Fascists rising to power based on Youtube channels and reddit memes?

So you don't. GG no R.

[Valrifell]

"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster..... for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

I like the passage from Harry Mulisch's "The Assault" because I'm sentimental and excessively romantic.

“Hate is the darkness, that's no good. And yet we've got to hate Fascists, and that's considered perfectly all right. How is that possible? It's because we hate them in the name of the light, I guess, whereas they hate only in the name of darkness. We hate hate itself, and for this reason our hate is better than theirs. But that's why it's more difficult for us. For them everything is very simple, but for us it's more complicated. We've got to become a little bit like them in order to fight them so we become a little bit unlike ourselves. But they don't have that problem; they can do away with us without any qualms. We first have to do away with something inside ourselves before we can do away with them. Not them; they can simply remain themselves, that's why they're so strong. But they'll lose in the end, because they have no light in them. The only thing is, we mustn't become too much like them, mustn't destroy ourselves altogether, otherwise they'll have won in the end...”

This is a good quote.

[Fartsniffage]

I like the passage from Harry Mulisch's "The Assault" because I'm sentimental and excessively romantic.

“Hate is the darkness, that's no good. And yet we've got to hate Fascists, and that's considered perfectly all right. How is that possible? It's because we hate them in the name of the light, I guess, whereas they hate only in the name of darkness. We hate hate itself, and for this reason our hate is better than theirs. But that's why it's more difficult for us. For them everything is very simple, but for us it's more complicated. We've got to become a little bit like them in order to fight them so we become a little bit unlike ourselves. But they don't have that problem; they can do away with us without any qualms. We first have to do away with something inside ourselves before we can do away with them. Not them; they can simply remain themselves, that's why they're so strong. But they'll lose in the end, because they have no light in them. The only thing is, we mustn't become too much like them, mustn't destroy ourselves altogether, otherwise they'll have won in the end...”

This is a good quote.

“Night, forever. But within it, a city, shadowy and only real in certain ways.
The entity cowered in its alley, where the mist was rising. This could not have happened!
Yet it had. The streets had filled with… things. Animals! Birds! Changing shape! Screaming and yelling! And, above it all, higher than the rooftops, a lamb rocking back and forth in great slow motions, thundering over the cobbles…
And then bars had come down, slamming down, and the entity had been thrown back.
But it had been so close! It had saved the creature, it was getting through, it was beginning to have control… and now this…
In the darkness of the inner city, above the rustle of the never-ending rain, it heard the sound of boots approaching.
A shape appeared in the mist.
It drew nearer.
Water cascaded off a metal helmet and an oiled leather cloak as the figure stopped and, entirely unconcerned, cupped its had in front of its face and lit a cigar.
Then the match was dropped on the cobbles, where it hissed out, and the figure said: “What are you?”
The entity stirred, like an old fish in a deep pool. It was too tired to flee.
“I am the Summoning Dark.” It was not, in fact, a sound, but had it been, it would have been a hiss. “Who are you?”
“I am the Watchman.”
“They would have killed his family!” The darkness lunged, and met resistance. “Think of the deaths they have caused! Who are you to stop me?”
“He created me. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who watches the watchmen? Me. I watch him. Always. You will not force him to murder for you.”
“What kind of human creates his own policeman?”
“One who fears the dark.”
“And so he should,” said the entity, with satisfaction.
“Indeed. But I think you misunderstand. I am not here to keep the darkness out. I am here to keep it in.” There was a clink of metal as the shadowy watchman lifted a dark lantern and opened its little door. Orange light cut through the blackness. “Call me… the Guarding Dark. Imagine how strong I must be.”
The Summoning Dark backed desperately into the alley, but the light followed it, burning it.
“And now,” said the watchman, “get out of town.”

How I look at it given the level of violence of which I am able.

[Fahran]

Fascists don't really rise to power in a vacuum. They gain traction and prominence because institutions have been weakened or undermined, identities and narratives have been dismantled to leave behind vacuity, alienation has begun to afflict a large portion of a nation's population, and material and social conditions are such that people feel threatened on a fundamental level. We can treat the sickness well enough.