NationStates

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
What's unfair and repressive about pointing out when Trump is lying? The US isn't some authoritarian hellhole where correcting Dearest Leader isn't allowed.

I mean. If you do it even handedly? Sure. Go ahead. They don't usually. They apply it selectively to people they oppose while letting people they agree with lie all the time.

So when has a national Democratic figure propagated blatant fakes on social media?

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
What's unfair and repressive about pointing out when Trump is lying? The US isn't some authoritarian hellhole where correcting Dearest Leader isn't allowed.

I mean. If you do it even handedly? Sure. Go ahead. They don't usually. They apply it selectively to people they oppose while letting people they agree with lie all the time.

I'm not on Twitter so I don't see it enforced, but I imagine it would be difficult to apply evenly regardless just by the sheer coverage certain users have over others.

It's easier to catch the president on a lie when he's regularly a front-page news story and harder when it's a bunch of no-name randos doing it.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
What's unfair and repressive about pointing out when Trump is lying? The US isn't some authoritarian hellhole where correcting Dearest Leader isn't allowed.

I mean. If you do it even handedly? Sure. Go ahead. They don't usually. They apply it selectively to people they oppose while letting people they agree with lie all the time.

So what lies are being ignored?

Vassenor wrote:

The Emerald Legion wrote:
I mean. If you do it even handedly? Sure. Go ahead. They don't usually. They apply it selectively to people they oppose while letting people they agree with lie all the time.

So what lies are being ignored?

As an example AOC and her concentration camp nonsense.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Ifreann wrote:So it was, in fact, Nazi dog whistling. Cool, I thought so too.

It's way too much of a coincidence to entirely ignore. I mean, it wouldn't be the first time someone was that ignorant, like the 'Super Scouts' and their literal Nazi SS flag. But it feels like an odd move for Trump himself to be the push behind it.

He certainly doesn't seem to be the micro-managing type, so I doubt anyone thinks that he personally approved the ads. He just directed the people who did.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
So what lies are being ignored?

As an example AOC and her concentration camp nonsense.

ICE camps are concentration camps by definition, if that's what we're talking about.

Ifreann wrote:

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Perhaps you should say something about Trump then, rather than just kicking the can at us.

Any thoughts on why his campaign included inverted red triangles in their now-deleted Facebook posts?

It's a symbol used by Anti-Fascist Action and other Anarchist Groups.

From Mark Bray's Antifascist handbook:

As opposed to AFA’s reclamation of the red triangle symbol used by the Nazis to label communists, Antifa incorporated the name, style, flags, and other symbols of continental anti-fascism, while maintaining the AFA organizing model

If Trump tweets out a picture of a Swastika being smashed with a hammer and says he hates Nazis, all we will hear in this thread is "Trump HATES Buddhists and tweeted out the DESTRUCTION of a Buddhist symbol! He hates religious minorities! Nazi!"

Valrifell wrote:

The Emerald Legion wrote:
As an example AOC and her concentration camp nonsense.

ICE camps are concentration camps by definition, if that's what we're talking about.

Also, concentration camp =/= death camp

Myrensis wrote:

The Black Forrest wrote:
trump a Nazi?.....Nahhh. He is more of the guy who would offer to run things if they took over.

Doubt he could tolerate the idea of working for someone else. As with most of the shit he does, it's not that he actually believes it, he just has zero problem with tolerating and playing along with it so long as he believes it will benefit him and serves to inflate his ego. If the white nationalist Non-Trumps want to dog whistle other non-Trumps about the danger of various other non-Trumps...who cares? Just so long as they vote for him and tell him he's the bravest and handsomest boy at his rallies.

Ohhhhh I think he could if they have him free hand to violently suppress people as needed.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
So what lies are being ignored?

As an example AOC and her concentration camp nonsense.

Ah, so because the scary woman used a technically correct definition that you don't like.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
So what lies are being ignored?

As an example AOC and her concentration camp nonsense.

Ok? How are they different?

Crockerland wrote:

Ifreann wrote:Any thoughts on why his campaign included inverted red triangles in their now-deleted Facebook posts?

It's a symbol used by Anti-Fascist Action and other Anarchist Groups.

From Mark Bray's Antifascist handbook:

As opposed to AFA’s reclamation of the red triangle symbol used by the Nazis to label communists, Antifa incorporated the name, style, flags, and other symbols of continental anti-fascism, while maintaining the AFA organizing model

If Trump tweets out a picture of a Swastika being smashed with a hammer and says he hates Nazis, all we will hear in this thread is "Trump HATES Buddhists and tweeted out the DESTRUCTION of a Buddhist symbol! He hates religious minorities! Nazi!"

Only if you can't grasp the meaning of a swastika's orientation.

Crockerland wrote:

Ifreann wrote:Any thoughts on why his campaign included inverted red triangles in their now-deleted Facebook posts?

It's a symbol used by Anti-Fascist Action and other Anarchist Groups.

From Mark Bray's Antifascist handbook:

As opposed to AFA’s reclamation of the red triangle symbol used by the Nazis to label communists, Antifa incorporated the name, style, flags, and other symbols of continental anti-fascism, while maintaining the AFA organizing model

If Trump tweets out a picture of a Swastika being smashed with a hammer and says he hates Nazis, all we will hear in this thread is "Trump HATES Buddhists and tweeted out the DESTRUCTION of a Buddhist symbol! He hates religious minorities! Nazi!"

Something tells me Trump or his social media team haven't actually read that book. Let's see practical examples of this usage in action.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Myrensis wrote:
Doubt he could tolerate the idea of working for someone else. As with most of the shit he does, it's not that he actually believes it, he just has zero problem with tolerating and playing along with it so long as he believes it will benefit him and serves to inflate his ego. If the white nationalist Non-Trumps want to dog whistle other non-Trumps about the danger of various other non-Trumps...who cares? Just so long as they vote for him and tell him he's the bravest and handsomest boy at his rallies.

Ohhhhh I think he could if they have him free hand to violently suppress people as needed.

He wouldn't mind working for Putin-sempai or Kim Darling either.

Crockerland wrote:If Trump tweets out a picture of a Swastika being smashed with a hammer and says he hates Nazis, all we will hear in this thread is "Trump HATES Buddhists and tweeted out the DESTRUCTION of a Buddhist symbol! He hates religious minorities! Nazi!"

Too bad this claim will never be put to the test. Oh well.

The amount of “I’m not a Trump supporter but I buy into all of his garbage” in this thread is ASTOUNDING

Crockerland wrote:

Ifreann wrote:Any thoughts on why his campaign included inverted red triangles in their now-deleted Facebook posts?

It's a symbol used by Anti-Fascist Action and other Anarchist Groups.

From Mark Bray's Antifascist handbook:

As opposed to AFA’s reclamation of the red triangle symbol used by the Nazis to label communists, Antifa incorporated the name, style, flags, and other symbols of continental anti-fascism, while maintaining the AFA organizing model

If Trump tweets out a picture of a Swastika being smashed with a hammer and says he hates Nazis, all we will hear in this thread is "Trump HATES Buddhists and tweeted out the DESTRUCTION of a Buddhist symbol! He hates religious minorities! Nazi!"

It's a very underused and not at all widespread or clear image related to Antifa if that's the case. If the objective was to use an image related to antifa, the infinitely more recognziable double-flag logo would have worked towards that end, or even the anarchist "A" encolsed in a circle.

I, a noted leftist degenerate, have never seen that symbol in popular circulation in my usual hives of scum and villainy. And I'm a college student!

Besides, it would be a really mild end to the ad to just use a logo without any markings on it and not deface it at all.

It just reads as a very tenuous grasping at straw, because I doubt the audience knew of the efforts to reclaim the symbol. I doubt many antifa folks are aware of that.

Vassenor wrote:

The Emerald Legion wrote:
As an example AOC and her concentration camp nonsense.

Ah, so because the scary woman used a technically correct definition that you don't like.

Saying "vaccines are dangerous" is also technically correct. Another way of saying "technically correct" would be "incredibly misleading" or "a lie by omission."

Centai Mal wrote:The amount of “I’m not a Trump supporter but I buy into all of his garbage” in this thread is ASTOUNDING

Saying I think something is a bad move for public opinion doesn't mean I "buy into his garbage". Grow up.

Centai Mal wrote:The amount of “I’m not a Trump supporter but I buy into all of his garbage” in this thread is ASTOUNDING

It's setting the foundation for denying having ever been a Trump supporter when he finally leaves office.

Crockerland wrote:

Ifreann wrote:Any thoughts on why his campaign included inverted red triangles in their now-deleted Facebook posts?

It's a symbol used by Anti-Fascist Action and other Anarchist Groups.

From Mark Bray's Antifascist handbook:

As opposed to AFA’s reclamation of the red triangle symbol used by the Nazis to label communists, Antifa incorporated the name, style, flags, and other symbols of continental anti-fascism, while maintaining the AFA organizing model

If Trump tweets out a picture of a Swastika being smashed with a hammer and says he hates Nazis, all we will hear in this thread is "Trump HATES Buddhists and tweeted out the DESTRUCTION of a Buddhist symbol! He hates religious minorities! Nazi!"

So, let me get this straight. Trump, posting an ad that calls for people to oppose antifa, involves particular antifa imagery that is both not widely known and a reclaimed symbol of the holocaust? For what purpose? Do you think that many political attack ads just show the imagery of the opponent?

By the way, even if what you say it's true, it's bad form to use a group's reclaimed symbols against them, because of this very reason. People will confuse your intentions.

Your little what if scenario isn't really relevant, and you thinking that that would happen has no bearing on reality. If Trump would actually post anti-fascist imagery, or make antifascist statements, that would be great. Thing is, context exists, and Trump has used his position of power to constantly spout fascist talking points and wink towards the extreme right wing. That context exists. That's why people distrust him when he says disingenuous shit. Do you think antifa hates Trump just because he is called 'Donald Trump'? Or because of what he has said and done?

Crockerland wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
Ah, so because the scary woman used a technically correct definition that you don't like.

Saying "vaccines are dangerous" is also technically correct. Another way of saying "technically correct" would be "incredibly misleading" or "a lie by omission."

It's not even a lie by omission. It's only upsetting by connotation with Nazi camps, which while intentional, does not make her at all wrong or lying.

"Vaccines are dangerous" is an entirely different level than "ICE camps are concentration camps".

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:

Crockerland wrote:It's a symbol used by Anti-Fascist Action and other Anarchist Groups.

From Mark Bray's Antifascist handbook:

As opposed to AFA’s reclamation of the red triangle symbol used by the Nazis to label communists, Antifa incorporated the name, style, flags, and other symbols of continental anti-fascism, while maintaining the AFA organizing model

If Trump tweets out a picture of a Swastika being smashed with a hammer and says he hates Nazis, all we will hear in this thread is "Trump HATES Buddhists and tweeted out the DESTRUCTION of a Buddhist symbol! He hates religious minorities! Nazi!"

So, let me get this straight. Trump, posting an ad that calls for people to oppose antifa, involves particular antifa imagery that is both not widely known and a reclaimed symbol of the holocaust? For what purpose? Do you think that many political attack ads just show the imagery of the opponent?

By the way, even if what you say it's true, it's bad form to use a group's reclaimed symbols against them, because of this very reason. People will confuse your intentions.

Your little what if scenario isn't really relevant, and you thinking that that would happen has no bearing on reality. If Trump would actually post anti-fascist imagery, or make antifascist statements, that would be great. Thing is, context exists, and Trump has used his position of power to constantly spout fascist talking points and wink towards the extreme right wing. That context exists. That's why people distrust him when he says disingenuous shit. Do you think antifa hates Trump just because he is called 'Donald Trump'? Or because of what he has said and done?

Something something orange man bad.

Tirmon wrote:

Centai Mal wrote:The amount of “I’m not a Trump supporter but I buy into all of his garbage” in this thread is ASTOUNDING

Saying I think something is a bad move for public opinion doesn't mean I "buy into his garbage". Grow up.

No, it means you think he should be able to lie with impunity.

Vassenor wrote:

Tirmon wrote:
Saying I think something is a bad move for public opinion doesn't mean I "buy into his garbage". Grow up.

No, it means you think he should be able to lie with impunity.

Gosh, here all this time I thought I knew my own opinions. Thank you so much for explaining how I think to me! Very helpful of you.

No. It means. I think that marking this tweet as "manipulative media" does nothing more than further his cause and support. Yet again. Goodness, I have to explain things a lot of times.