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MAGAThread XIX: Hambergers, Noble Prizes, & Disinfectant

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Solomons Land
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Founded: May 16, 2017
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Solomons Land » Fri May 22, 2020 3:23 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Solomons Land wrote:
Churches are indeed corporations, but that was not the question. The question was whether or not they are businesses, which they are not. While, in a generic sense, I think churches should be allowed to open roughly around the same time as businesses, I think it is too early to open either.

Corporation = business. They are one in the same.

Or do you want to split hairs again because you can’t accept that your might be wrong?


https://www.difference.wiki/corporation-vs-company/
https://www.differencebetween.com/diffe ... s-company/

Put these two article together and you have the distinctions between corporations, businesses and companies, enjoy.
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Katganistan
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Katganistan » Fri May 22, 2020 3:23 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Katganistan wrote:I am not the one who originally called it a business. That was the whole point of ASKING them if it was a business.


Business doesn't really have a precise definition here.

Except that churches don't appear to be businesses, but not-for-profit corporations instead...

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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Fri May 22, 2020 3:24 pm

Gormwood wrote:Guess the televangelists suffered from money withdrawal much sooner than expected.

Given that this was kicked off because of the Roman Catholics I doubt it. Those shysters are still swindling people, they just don’t have a live audience
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Bear Stearns
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Fri May 22, 2020 3:24 pm

Gormwood wrote:Guess the televangelists suffered from money withdrawal much sooner than expected.


The Roman Catholic Church has much longer and bloodier history of acting as a for-profit institution than even your most outrageous televangelist.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Fri May 22, 2020 3:25 pm

Katganistan wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
Business doesn't really have a precise definition here.

Except that churches don't appear to be businesses, but not-for-profit corporations instead...

I mean they could be called a business. The line gets pretty blurry at times
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
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Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Fri May 22, 2020 3:25 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:States' Rights only matter when a Democrat is overstepping the bounds of Federal government. When Republicans do it, it's called maga or something.


If state's rights don't matter then let's get rid of sanctuary states, which is essentially where a state can impose an immigration policy on the rest of the country.

Sanctuary cities are legal. Nothing compels cities to cooperate with ICE. It’s voluntary.
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Idzequitch
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Idzequitch » Fri May 22, 2020 3:25 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:I do believe you've entirely missed what I was saying.


I'm saying your stance on state's rights is dependent on which party is in control of a state, in spite of your strawman example.

Not at all. Democrats in the federal government overstep things that should be left to the states, and so do Republicans. I just think it's funny that I hold the view Republicans claim to hold, but in practice, the "limited government" Republicans are just as willing as anyone to overstep if it suits them. At least Dems have the excuse of being pro-big government anyway, so they aren't quite as hypocritical when they do it.
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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Fri May 22, 2020 3:26 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Guess the televangelists suffered from money withdrawal much sooner than expected.


The Roman Catholic Church has much longer and bloodier history of acting as a for-profit institution than even your most outrageous televangelist.

Gold? What gold? I don’t see any stolen art. What do you mean we have offshore bank accounts?
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
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Bear Stearns
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Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Fri May 22, 2020 3:26 pm

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
If state's rights don't matter then let's get rid of sanctuary states, which is essentially where a state can impose an immigration policy on the rest of the country.

Sanctuary cities are legal. Nothing compels cities to cooperate with ICE. It’s voluntary.


But states? Because there are no restrictions on movement between states, one state declaring itself to be a sanctuary state is essentially imposing its open border policy on the rest of the country. That's nullification-tier shit Andy Jackson would have slapped down.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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Diopolis
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Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Fri May 22, 2020 3:27 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Guess the televangelists suffered from money withdrawal much sooner than expected.

Given that this was kicked off because of the Roman Catholics I doubt it. Those shysters are still swindling people, they just don’t have a live audience

The money's still rolling in to televangelists, I believe. The church that was the immediate catalyst actually operates at a loss most of the time if I'm remembering correctly.
Now it's important to note that the Catholic archdiocese of Minneapolis(and through them theoretically every Catholic in the state of Minnesota, but realistically probably not quite all of them) is not the first church that's done this. They're just the biggest and made the biggest deal out of it.
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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Fri May 22, 2020 3:27 pm

Solomons Land wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Corporation = business. They are one in the same.

Or do you want to split hairs again because you can’t accept that your might be wrong?


https://www.difference.wiki/corporation-vs-company/
https://www.differencebetween.com/diffe ... s-company/

Put these two article together and you have the distinctions between corporations, businesses and companies, enjoy.

You really need to stop being condescending

Thermodolia wrote:
Katganistan wrote:Except that churches don't appear to be businesses, but not-for-profit corporations instead...

I mean they could be called a business. The line gets pretty blurry at times
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Fri May 22, 2020 3:28 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Given that this was kicked off because of the Roman Catholics I doubt it. Those shysters are still swindling people, they just don’t have a live audience

The money's still rolling in to televangelists, I believe. The church that was the immediate catalyst actually operates at a loss most of the time if I'm remembering correctly.
Now it's important to note that the Catholic archdiocese of Minneapolis(and through them theoretically every Catholic in the state of Minnesota, but realistically probably not quite all of them) is not the first church that's done this. They're just the biggest and made the biggest deal out of it.

Yup. The money is definitely rolling in for the televangelists. That’s what my shysters comment was about. They have a tv, they don’t need people in their churches
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

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Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
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Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Fri May 22, 2020 3:29 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Sanctuary cities are legal. Nothing compels cities to cooperate with ICE. It’s voluntary.


But states? Because there are no restrictions on movement between states, one state declaring itself to be a sanctuary state is essentially imposing its open border policy on the rest of the country. That's nullification-tier shit Andy Jackson would have slapped down.

...

Those undocumented immigrants can be arrested when they set foot in another city? They cannot actually live anywhere else than the sanctuary city.
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Bear Stearns
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Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Fri May 22, 2020 3:30 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
The Roman Catholic Church has much longer and bloodier history of acting as a for-profit institution than even your most outrageous televangelist.

Gold? What gold? I don’t see any stolen art. What do you mean we have offshore bank accounts?


There is a very strong argument to make that the medieval church was the world's first real estate private equity fund, given the way it managed its lands throughout Europe.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
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Solomons Land
Diplomat
 
Posts: 930
Founded: May 16, 2017
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Solomons Land » Fri May 22, 2020 3:30 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Solomons Land wrote:
https://www.difference.wiki/corporation-vs-company/
https://www.differencebetween.com/diffe ... s-company/

Put these two article together and you have the distinctions between corporations, businesses and companies, enjoy.

You really need to stop being condescending

Thermodolia wrote:I mean they could be called a business. The line gets pretty blurry at times


I admit, the way I phrased it was quite rude. I apologize for that, and for the general harsh tone of this conversation.
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Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Fri May 22, 2020 3:34 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Gold? What gold? I don’t see any stolen art. What do you mean we have offshore bank accounts?


There is a very strong argument to make that the medieval church was the world's first real estate private equity fund, given the way it managed its lands throughout Europe.

They also effectively had their own private military through the Knights groups
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

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Katganistan
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Katganistan » Fri May 22, 2020 3:35 pm

I think the reasonable thing to do is a gradual phased-in reopening, and if you end up with hotspots of disease, you isolate them.

So yes, if going back to your house of worship ends up with say a quarter of the congregants getting sick, it closes again.

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Rojava Free State
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Rojava Free State » Fri May 22, 2020 3:37 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Guess the televangelists suffered from money withdrawal much sooner than expected.


The Roman Catholic Church has much longer and bloodier history of acting as a for-profit institution than even your most outrageous televangelist.


The RCC is so corrupt, it isn't even funny. No wonder the protestant reformation happened.
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Bear Stearns
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Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Fri May 22, 2020 3:38 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
There is a very strong argument to make that the medieval church was the world's first real estate private equity fund, given the way it managed its lands throughout Europe.

They also effectively had their own private military through the Knights groups


Gotta set a monarch straight when he starts getting uppity and thinks his kingdom is really his, now.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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Hakons
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Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Hakons » Fri May 22, 2020 3:45 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:That's not something he can enforce, nor is it something that he should be able to.

Separation of Church and State works both ways or not at all.


The obvious contradiction here is that the State is forcing the closure of worship services. The State isn't respecting the separation when it demands the reopening of access to public worship, but it is when it demands the closure of Churches?
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Hakons
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Hakons » Fri May 22, 2020 3:50 pm

I honestly don't pay attention to Indiana's directions on going to worship services. My diocese has its own government and is well organized. We stopped public masses before the state forced worship services to stop, and we'll reopen when the diocese thinks it's safe, not when the state did.
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The South Falls
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Fri May 22, 2020 3:54 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:They also effectively had their own private military through the Knights groups


Gotta set a monarch straight when he starts getting uppity and thinks his kingdom is really his, now.

The chad Henry VIII just subdued the monasteries, cutting the issue at the source.
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Brunswick-upon-Raritan
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Brunswick-upon-Raritan » Fri May 22, 2020 3:57 pm

Hakons wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:That's not something he can enforce, nor is it something that he should be able to.

Separation of Church and State works both ways or not at all.


The obvious contradiction here is that the State is forcing the closure of worship services. The State isn't respecting the separation when it demands the reopening of access to public worship, but it is when it demands the closure of Churches?



The problem is the Federal government (Trump) can’t order the States to close or reopen churches because of the Tenth Amendment, not the First Amendment. The Tenth Amendment gives States the inherent sovereignty to enact whatever public health measures they deem necessary, as the Supreme Court said in 1824. And as long as states are neutral in imposing restrictions on all gatherings, not targeted groups, they don’t violate the First Amendment.
Last edited by Brunswick-upon-Raritan on Fri May 22, 2020 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bienenhalde
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Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Bienenhalde » Fri May 22, 2020 3:59 pm

Hakons wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:That's not something he can enforce, nor is it something that he should be able to.

Separation of Church and State works both ways or not at all.


The obvious contradiction here is that the State is forcing the closure of worship services. The State isn't respecting the separation when it demands the reopening of access to public worship, but it is when it demands the closure of Churches?


I think it is acceptable to close worship services if other public gatherings in large groups are banned. If religious and non-religious groups are subject to the same rules, I wouldn't see that as discriminatory. Trump's insistence on allowing churches to reopen is dumb, but it doens't necessarily violate separation of church and state.
Last edited by Bienenhalde on Fri May 22, 2020 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sundiata » Fri May 22, 2020 4:01 pm

I completely disagree with the president on this one and so does my church.
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