MAGAThread XIX: Hambergers, Noble Prizes, & Disinfectant

[Loben III]

Another war in the middle east and conflict with Russia.


Brilliant and surely wouldve gone according to plan.

And trump boot licking Putin is better how?

Justify going to war with Russia.

[Cannot think of a name]

And trump boot licking Putin is better how?

Justify going to war with Russia.

Only in the heads of people trying to reconcile Trump as a competent leader are those the only two options.

[Bear Stearns]

Another war in the middle east and conflict with Russia.


Brilliant and surely wouldve gone according to plan.

And trump boot licking Putin is better how?

Trump's actions have gotten more Russians killed than those of any other president since Reagan armed the Mujahadeen. He deliberately provokes war with Russia's allies (Iran and Venezuela), supports Israel's aggression against Syria, and has given more lethal aid to Ukraine than any president since the 1920s. The Russians consider him a belligerent adversary. Any chance of detente his election might have held disappeared in the first year of his presidency.

[Atheris]

And trump boot licking Putin is better how?

Trump's actions have gotten more Russians killed than those of any other president since Reagan armed the Mujahadeen. He deliberately provokes war with Russia's allies (Iran and Venezuela), supports Israel's aggression against Syria, and has given more lethal aid to Ukraine than any president since the 1920s. The Russians consider him a belligerent adversary. Any chance of detente his election might have held disappeared in the first year of his presidency.

[citation needed]

[Empirical Switzerland]

Trump's actions have gotten more Russians killed than those of any other president since Reagan armed the Mujahadeen. He deliberately provokes war with Russia's allies (Iran and Venezuela), supports Israel's aggression against Syria, and has given more lethal aid to Ukraine than any president since the 1920s. The Russians consider him a belligerent adversary. Any chance of detente his election might have held disappeared in the first year of his presidency.

[citation needed]

Jeez you guys say "citation needed" whenever you disagree and somebody doesn't cite their sources.

[Cannot think of a name]

[citation needed]

Jeez you guys say "citation needed" whenever you disagree and somebody doesn't cite their sources.

...yes?

[Spirit of Hope]

And trump boot licking Putin is better how?

has given more lethal aid to Ukraine than any president since the 1920s.

Since Ukraine has only existed since 1990, and has only needed lethal aid since 2014, that is a rather low bar to get over. Hurray, in 4 years Trump has done more for Ukraine than Obama did in 2 years. Let's ignore the trading aid for political investigation thing that happened last year as well.

The Russians consider him a belligerent adversary. Any chance of detente his election might have held disappeared in the first year of his presidency.

Which is why President Trump has continued to praise Putin and Russia, and Russia is actively opposing Bidens bid?

[Bear Stearns]

Trump's actions have gotten more Russians killed than those of any other president since Reagan armed the Mujahadeen. He deliberately provokes war with Russia's allies (Iran and Venezuela), supports Israel's aggression against Syria, and has given more lethal aid to Ukraine than any president since the 1920s. The Russians consider him a belligerent adversary. Any chance of detente his election might have held disappeared in the first year of his presidency.

[citation needed]

Trump have Ukraine $400mm worth of military aid in 2019. This aid mostly consistently of Javelin anti-tank missiles, automatic weapons, and other explosives. His support of the Ukrainian military since 2017 has gotten over 1,000 Russian soldiers killed. Not to mention the bombing of Russian assets in Syria.

I'd say that's pretty belligerent.

[Whitemore]

[citation needed]

Jeez you guys say "citation needed" whenever you disagree and somebody doesn't cite their sources.

Man, it's almost like it's important to back up what you say with sources so people know you aren't bullshitting them.

[Autumn Wind]

Trump's actions have gotten more Russians killed than those of any other president since Reagan armed the mujahideen.

Do you have stats for that? I mean, the Syrian civil war was going on long before trump was in office, and it was my impression that aside from the continuing on again/off again skirmishing in eastern ukraine, most of the heavy fighting was before trump took office as well.

[Empirical Switzerland]

Jeez you guys say "citation needed" whenever you disagree and somebody doesn't cite their sources.

Man, it's almost like it's important to back up what you say with sources so people know you aren't bullshitting them.

I understand that, but what he said was basically true, and doesn't really need much evidence.

[Bear Stearns]

has given more lethal aid to Ukraine than any president since the 1920s.

Since Ukraine has only existed since 1990, and has only needed lethal aid since 2014, that is a rather low bar to get over.

I was referring to the US intervention in the Russian Civil War in support of the White Russians.

Hurray, in 4 years Trump has done more for Ukraine than Obama did in 2 years. Let's ignore the trading aid for political investigation thing that happened last year as well.

Trump temporarily tried to withhold aid because Ukraine is a corrupt mafia state and he was concerned about deploying taxpayer's money to such a broken country. Unfortunately, more belligerent heads prevailed.

The Russians consider him a belligerent adversary. Any chance of detente his election might have held disappeared in the first year of his presidency.

Which is why President Trump has continued to praise Putin and Russia, and Russia is actively opposing Bidens bid?

From your own article:

On Friday the intelligence community's top election security official William Evanina put out the clearest statement yet that the intelligence community believes Russia is working to hurt Biden while stating that China and Iran are attempting to damage Trump.

Ignoring the credibility problems with the US intelligence community, let's see what Russia is actually doing here...

"The intelligence services have come to very firm conclusions about what the Russians are up to and who is acting on behalf of the Russians," Sen. Chris Murphy, a Connecticut Democrat and member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told CNN Thursday, referring to the 2020 campaign.

That's nice, but can he be more specific?

"In the briefings that I've received, there's no ambiguity about what the Russians' intention is and there's no ambiguity about what narratives they are pushing. And there's no ambiguity about the people they are using to push them," he added.

What a non-answer.

While members of both the House and Senate have received briefings in recent days, sources tell CNN that the presidential campaigns are also aware of intelligence suggesting Russian disinformation efforts are specifically focused on Biden.

Okay, this is a little more substantial. How are they spreading disinformation?

"It's not so much that they necessarily think they are going to change your vote from one candidate to another. It's about depressing turnout for candidates they don't like and elevating turnout for candidates they do like," Chertoff told CNN.

Can they be more specific?

"But most of all, it is about creating uncertainty and suspicion and lack of confidence in our political leadership ... which is really a way of saying that information campaigns are a tool of conflict,"

US institutions did that to themselves.

Well this is basically a lot of words that say nothing. And nowhere does this article mention Trump continuously praising Putin.

[Atheris]

[citation needed]

Jeez you guys say "citation needed" whenever you disagree and somebody doesn't cite their sources.

[Empirical Switzerland]

Since Ukraine has only existed since 1990, and has only needed lethal aid since 2014, that is a rather low bar to get over.

I was referring to the US intervention in the Russian Civil War in support of the White Russians.

Hurray, in 4 years Trump has done more for Ukraine than Obama did in 2 years. Let's ignore the trading aid for political investigation thing that happened last year as well.

Trump temporarily tried to withhold aid because Ukraine is a corrupt mafia state and he was concerned about deploying taxpayer's money to such a broken country. Unfortunately, more belligerent heads prevailed.

The Russians consider him a belligerent adversary. Any chance of detente his election might have held disappeared in the first year of his presidency.

Which is why President Trump has continued to praise Putin and Russia, and Russia is actively opposing Bidens bid?

From your own article:

On Friday the intelligence community's top election security official William Evanina put out the clearest statement yet that the intelligence community believes Russia is working to hurt Biden while stating that China and Iran are attempting to damage Trump.

Ignoring the credibility problems with the US intelligence community, let's see what Russia is actually doing here...

"The intelligence services have come to very firm conclusions about what the Russians are up to and who is acting on behalf of the Russians," Sen. Chris Murphy, a Connecticut Democrat and member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told CNN Thursday, referring to the 2020 campaign.

That's nice, but can he be more specific?

"In the briefings that I've received, there's no ambiguity about what the Russians' intention is and there's no ambiguity about what narratives they are pushing. And there's no ambiguity about the people they are using to push them," he added.

What a non-answer.

While members of both the House and Senate have received briefings in recent days, sources tell CNN that the presidential campaigns are also aware of intelligence suggesting Russian disinformation efforts are specifically focused on Biden.

Okay, this is a little more substantial. How are they spreading disinformation?

"It's not so much that they necessarily think they are going to change your vote from one candidate to another. It's about depressing turnout for candidates they don't like and elevating turnout for candidates they do like," Chertoff told CNN.

Can they be more specific?

"But most of all, it is about creating uncertainty and suspicion and lack of confidence in our political leadership ... which is really a way of saying that information campaigns are a tool of conflict,"

US institutions did that to themselves.

Well this is basically a lot of words that say nothing. And nowhere does this article mention Trump continuously praising Putin.

Good point!

[Vassenor]

Oh, are we still hiding behind BUT IRAQ whenever intelligence agencies make Trump look bad?

[Jedi Council]

Man, it's almost like it's important to back up what you say with sources so people know you aren't bullshitting them.

I understand that, but what he said was basically true, and doesn't really need much evidence.

Things that dont need much evidence are generally either common knowledge or common sense.

And that statement was neither. If one makes a claim, one should have sources for that claim.

[Spirit of Hope]

Since Ukraine has only existed since 1990, and has only needed lethal aid since 2014, that is a rather low bar to get over.

I was referring to the US intervention in the Russian Civil War in support of the White Russians.

It's a terrible reference then, again saying Trump has provided more aid than any President since 1920 ignores Ukraine not existing from the 1920s until 1990, and definitely ignores the fact that Ukraine didn't need military aid from 1990 until 2014.

The dollar amount, by year, that Trump and Obama provided to Ukraine is about equal. Trump provided lethal aid while Obama didn't, but there was the valid concern in the Obama administration that high technology aid given to Ukraine, such as Javelin s, could wind up in Russian hands.

EDIT: Also it's rather hilarious to give any President sole responsibility for military aid since it has to be approved by congress.

Hurray, in 4 years Trump has done more for Ukraine than Obama did in 2 years. Let's ignore the trading aid for political investigation thing that happened last year as well.

Trump temporarily tried to withhold aid because Ukraine is a corrupt mafia state and he was concerned about deploying taxpayer's money to such a broken country. Unfortunately, more belligerent heads prevailed.

Trump asked for an investigation in Biden while withholding military aid, while also not disclosing the witholding the aid as required by law.

The Russians consider him a belligerent adversary. Any chance of detente his election might have held disappeared in the first year of his presidency.

Which is why President Trump has continued to praise Putin and Russia, and Russia is actively opposing Bidens bid?

From your own article:

On Friday the intelligence community's top election security official William Evanina put out the clearest statement yet that the intelligence community believes Russia is working to hurt Biden while stating that China and Iran are attempting to damage Trump.

Ignoring the credibility problems with the US intelligence community, let's see what Russia is actually doing here...

"The intelligence services have come to very firm conclusions about what the Russians are up to and who is acting on behalf of the Russians," Sen. Chris Murphy, a Connecticut Democrat and member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told CNN Thursday, referring to the 2020 campaign.

That's nice, but can he be more specific?

"In the briefings that I've received, there's no ambiguity about what the Russians' intention is and there's no ambiguity about what narratives they are pushing. And there's no ambiguity about the people they are using to push them," he added.

What a non-answer.

While members of both the House and Senate have received briefings in recent days, sources tell CNN that the presidential campaigns are also aware of intelligence suggesting Russian disinformation efforts are specifically focused on Biden.

Okay, this is a little more substantial. How are they spreading disinformation?

"It's not so much that they necessarily think they are going to change your vote from one candidate to another. It's about depressing turnout for candidates they don't like and elevating turnout for candidates they do like," Chertoff told CNN.

Can they be more specific?

"But most of all, it is about creating uncertainty and suspicion and lack of confidence in our political leadership ... which is really a way of saying that information campaigns are a tool of conflict,"

US institutions did that to themselves.

Well this is basically a lot of words that say nothing. And nowhere does this article mention Trump continuously praising Putin.

Wow, people aren't releasing potentially classified details about an adversary nations intelligence efforts? I'm surprised.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... g.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes ... roops/amp/

You haven't provided any proof Russia considers Trump to be an adversary.

[Gravlen]

You haven't provided any proof Russia considers Trump to be an adversary.

Don't mind me, I'm just going to leave this here:

In his phone exchanges with Putin, the sources reported, the President talked mostly about himself, frequently in over-the-top, self-aggrandizing terms: touting his "unprecedented" success in building the US economy; asserting in derisive language how much smarter and "stronger" he is than "the imbeciles" and "weaklings" who came before him in the presidency (especially Obama); reveling in his experience running the Miss Universe Pageant in Moscow, and obsequiously courting Putin's admiration and approval. Putin "just outplays" him, said a high-level administration official -- comparing the Russian leader to a chess grandmaster and Trump to an occasional player of checkers. While Putin "destabilizes the West," said this source, the President of the United States "sits there and thinks he can build himself up enough as a businessman and tough guy that Putin will respect him." (At times, the Putin-Trump conversations sounded like "two guys in a steam bath," a source added.)

In numerous calls with Putin that were described to CNN, Trump left top national security aides and his chiefs of staff flabbergasted, less because of specific concessions he made than because of his manner -- inordinately solicitous of Putin's admiration and seemingly seeking his approval -- while usually ignoring substantive policy expertise and important matters on the standing bilateral agenda, including human rights; and an arms control agreement, which never got dealt with in a way that advanced shared Russian and American goals that both Putin and Trump professed to favor, CNN's sources said.

Throughout his presidency, Trump has touted the theme of "America First" as his north star in foreign policy, advancing the view that America's allies and adversaries have taken economic advantage of US goodwill in trade. And that America's closest allies need to increase their share of collective defense spending. He frequently justifies his seeming deference to Putin by arguing that Russia is a major world player and that it is in the United States' interest to have a constructive and friendly relationship -- requiring a reset with Moscow through his personal dialogue with Putin.

In separate interviews, two high-level administration officials familiar with most of the Trump-Putin calls said the President naively elevated Russia -- a second-rate totalitarian state with less than 4% of the world's GDP -- and its authoritarian leader almost to parity with the United States and its President by undermining the tougher, more realistic view of Russia expressed by the US Congress, American intelligence agencies and the long-standing post-war policy consensus of the US and its European allies. "He [Trump] gives away the advantage that was hard won in the Cold War," said one of the officials -- in part by "giving Putin and Russia a legitimacy they never had," the official said. "He's given Russia a lifeline -- because there is no doubt that they're a declining power ... He's playing with something he doesn't understand and he's giving them power that they would use [aggressively]."

Both officials cited Trump's decision to pull US troops out of Syria -- a move that benefited Turkey as well as Russia -- as perhaps the most grievous example. "He gave away the store," one of them said.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/29/politics/trump-phone-calls-national-security-concerns/index.html

[...] Trump believes he has a positive rapport with Putin himself and doesn’t want to disturb that with “unhappy” conversations, according to a former senior U.S. official.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/the-american-prisoner-in-russia-trapped-between-putin-trump-and-thoroughly-soured-us-russian-relations

[The Rich Port]

Donald doing everything he can to try to steal the election.

As expected, NSG completely missed the point...

Why do I even bother with these two threads anymore? But apparently the Wingthreads were too toxic and had to be shut down

You were bothering? I think it's safe to say you hardly bother, let alone try.

[Cannot think of a name]

Trump is giving a briefing where he basically said he understood like two words form an Indian reporter and then suggested that India would elect Trump.

[Empirical Switzerland]

Trump is giving a briefing where he basically said he understood like two words form an Indian reporter and then suggested that India would elect Trump.

Imma be like everybody else here... Evidence? Show a source if this is true.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Trump is giving a briefing where he basically said he understood like two words form an Indian reporter and then suggested that India would elect Trump.

Imma be like everybody else here... Evidence? Show a source if this is true.

Do you not have cspan or whatever?

[Empirical Switzerland]

I'm kinda disconnecting from social media right now, with the exception of nationstates. So no.

[Fartsniffage]

I'm kinda disconnecting from social media right now, with the exception of nationstates. So no.

C-span isn't social media.

[Kiu Ghesik]

I'm kinda disconnecting from social media right now, with the exception of nationstates. So no.

whitehouse.gov generally publishes transcripts of the President's speeches soon after they're released, if they're in the context of official Presidential speaking events or press briefings. You might see if it's there in a day or so.