MAGAThread XIX: Hambergers, Noble Prizes, & Disinfectant

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Well, there are some statues that are undoubtedly just. For example, the Statue of Liberty, or the proposed statue of Dolly Parton. She’s constantly set up programs for kids to have free books to read.

Instead of dismissing an entire idea because of a few racists, instead simply replace the statues that don’t deserve to be such with those who rightfully should be commended with a statue.

Sure we could've done that... when the public anger against the ruling class doing less than nothing about their symbols of racial superiority wasn't boiling over...

[Picairn]

Being a hypocrit actually plays quite well in history. The people who hate you think only of the bad thing you did, but they sure don't forget your name.

Everyone of us is a hypocrite. I fail to see even one man/woman who has committed to all of his/her promises.

That's also why purity tests are terrible.

[The Alma Mater]

So what's comparatively liberal about raping your slaves?

So his achievements in writing the Declaration of Independence and helping in the draft of the Constitution aren't liberal enough for your taste?

Edit: Raping your slaves isn't liberal or conservative. It's only right or wrong. Therefore, the term "liberal" only serve as a non-sequitur.

Do note that the word "liberal" is like the word "football" - it means something different in the USA than it does in every other country on the planet.
That sometimes may cause confusion.

[Minskiev]

So his achievements in writing the Declaration of Independence and helping in the draft of the Constitution aren't liberal enough for your taste?

Edit: Raping your slaves isn't liberal or conservative. It's only right or wrong. Therefore, the term "liberal" only serve as a non-sequitur.

Do note that the word "liberal" is like the word "football" - it means something different in the USA than it does in every other country on the planet.
That sometimes may cause confusion.

The meaning of the word also changes. Liberal in, say, 2000 BCE could mean only beating your wife twice a day, or something. Liberal in 3000 CE could mean in favor of a tyranny-by-the minority homosexual hegemonic matriarchy.

[Gravlen]

Bah humbug.

Your lack of enjoyment of this great holiday is most appreciated.

I see I expected too much from you, but I will refrain from explaining the joke.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Your lack of enjoyment of this great holiday is most appreciated.

I see I expected too much from you, but I will refrain from explaining the joke.

I mean... taking this at face-value... what's there to celebrate? The country's on fire, police is running rampant and shooting/beating/gassing anybody who looks at them the wrong way, COVID19 has taken over... and the Chief Executive is rambling on about his imagined enemies of the state and defending monuments to treason...

[Vassenor]

"Some freedoms for property-owning white males" isn't that comparatively liberal.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

"Some freedoms for property-owning white males" isn't that comparatively liberal.

Tbqh the British gentry class of the late-18th century was pretty liberal compared to their contemporaries in places like... Tsarist Russia... or Austria... or any of the Catholic states.

[The Alma Mater]

"Some freedoms for property-owning white males" isn't that comparatively liberal.

Actually that is a decent summary of European liberal beliefs.

[Gravlen]

I would say something about the Confederate monuments being monuments to treason as defined by the very Constitution of the United States but it's 7 am and I cba to educate people.
Also:

1. Monuments to George Washington and Thomas Jefferson are far from treasonous. By contemporary standards, the Founding Fathers were extremely liberal and progressive. How would we like it if statues of MLK Jr., Mahatma Gandhi, and Nelson Mandela were toppled by our 100x more progressive descendants 200 years from now because our moral standards are not as refined as theirs?

We probably wouldn't care, due to being long dead in 200 years.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I wonder what people like George Washington would really think about being worshipped like this... probably horrified.

[Picairn]

"Some freedoms for property-owning white males" isn't that comparatively liberal.

Compared to oppressive monarchs of Europe that murdered and enslaved their own citizens, like King Louis XVI and his Three Estate System, Empress Catherine the Great with her violent destruction of the Pugachev rebellion, etc.? I'll take the US over them anyday.

[Vassenor]

I wonder what people like George Washington would really think about being worshipped like this... probably horrified.

Given that the whole "Lee wanted no statues or memorials to the Confederacy" gets routinely ignored I get the impression most people wouldn't care.

[New Bremerton]

1. Monuments to George Washington and Thomas Jefferson are far from treasonous. By contemporary standards, the Founding Fathers were extremely liberal and progressive. How would we like it if statues of MLK Jr., Mahatma Gandhi, and Nelson Mandela were toppled by our 100x more progressive descendants 200 years from now because our moral standards are not as refined as theirs?

They are already being toppled NOW. Remember, Gandhi was a racist who advocated white supremacy in South Africa

Unbelievable.

But yes, as mentioned earlier, in 200 years people will probably consider meat-eaters to be amoral filth and topple those status.

Again, unbelievable. I can understand Confederate, Communist, and Nazi statues, monuments, and emblems being toppled, or Nazi swastikas being demolished, but what you're defending is cultural genocide. Unless such individuals or institutions were morally reprehensible by contemporary standards, monuments to them ought not to be taken down.

To be clear, I was defending statues of the Founding Fathers, not the Confederate statues. I could care less about those. I'm also not defending Trump's general, authoritarian attitude toward protesters or his defense of police brutality.

[Vassenor]

They are already being toppled NOW. Remember, Gandhi was a racist who advocated white supremacy in South Africa

Unbelievable.

But yes, as mentioned earlier, in 200 years people will probably consider meat-eaters to be amoral filth and topple those status.

Again, unbelievable. I can understand Confederate, Communist, and Nazi statues, monuments, and emblems being toppled, or Nazi swastikas being demolished, but what you're defending is cultural genocide. Unless such individuals or institutions were morally reprehensible by contemporary standards, monuments to them ought not to be taken down.

To be clear, I was defending statues of the Founding Fathers, not the Confederate statues. I could care less about those. I'm also not defending Trump's general, authoritarian attitude toward protesters or his defense of police brutality.

>Cultural genocide

How does not having a statue constitute "acts and measures undertaken to destroy nations' or ethnic groups' culture through spiritual, national, and cultural destruction"?

You know what does fit the bill there? Blowing the top off a mountain regarded as sacred to carve edifices into it.

[The Alma Mater]

They are already being toppled NOW. Remember, Gandhi was a racist who advocated white supremacy in South Africa

Unbelievable.

What is ? That Gandhi had multiple sides, that black people remember him differently than whites, that people dislike it when people who declared them to be inferior animals get put on a pedestal or... ?

newsflash: they also pulled down a statue of Columbus. Go ask a few native Americans what they think of that man - many literally consider him lower than Hitler.
Different people, different views. And history is seldomn taught fair and balanced.

[New Bremerton]

Unbelievable.

What is ? That Gandhi had multiple sides, that black people remember him differently than whites, that people dislike it when people who declared them to be inferior animals get put on a pedestal or... ?

newsflash: they also pulled down a statue of Columbus. Go ask a few native Americans what they think of that man - many literally consider him lower than Hitler.
Different people, different views. And history is seldomn taught fair and balanced.

Columbus was not a Founding Father of the United States. Why Americans even celebrate the exploits of a foreign privateer who lived long before the United States even existed and "discovered" America before the Natives who were already there for thousands of years did I have no idea. By the way, his real name was Cristobal Colon and I'm well aware of his litany of atrocities against the natives of the Americas. Ditto Hernan Cortez. I'm less familiar with Amerigo Vespucci apart from the fact that a country and two continents are named after him. I'm aware that America's history textbooks must reflect the good, the bad, and the ugly without commentary. I could care less about Columbus Day.

I draw a line when spiteful, ungrateful leftists attempt to cancel Independence Day and the Founding Fathers in a permanent, quasi-Maoist, cultural revolution, and I stand in solidarity with those who wish to preserve their nation's heritage, culture, and traditions. I happen to agree with Trump on that specific point. There is no shame in being an American. It sure beats being Chinese or North Korean. Western leftists are very quick to take their freedoms and the huge amount of social progress their countries have made for granted.

[The Alma Mater]

I draw a line when spiteful, ungrateful leftists attempt to cancel Independence Day and the Founding Fathers in a permanent, quasi-Maoist, cultural revolution

So, you draw the line at things that do not happen ?
Practical. Maximum freedom ftw.

[Vassenor]

What is ? That Gandhi had multiple sides, that black people remember him differently than whites, that people dislike it when people who declared them to be inferior animals get put on a pedestal or... ?

newsflash: they also pulled down a statue of Columbus. Go ask a few native Americans what they think of that man - many literally consider him lower than Hitler.
Different people, different views. And history is seldomn taught fair and balanced.

Columbus was not a Founding Father of the United States. Why Americans even celebrate the exploits of a foreign privateer who lived long before the United States even existed and "discovered" America before the Natives who were already there for thousands of years did I have no idea. By the way, his real name was Cristobal Colon and I'm well aware of his litany of atrocities against the natives of the Americas. Ditto Hernan Cortez. I'm less familiar with Amerigo Vespucci apart from the fact that a country and two continents are named after him. I'm aware that America's history textbooks must reflect the good, the bad, and the ugly without commentary. I could care less about Columbus Day.

I draw a line when spiteful, ungrateful leftists attempt to cancel Independence Day and the Founding Fathers in a permanent, quasi-Maoist, cultural revolution, and I stand in solidarity with those who wish to preserve their nation's heritage, culture, and traditions. I happen to agree with Trump on that specific point. There is no shame in being an American. It sure beats being Chinese or North Korean. Western leftists are very quick to take their freedoms and the huge amount of social progress their countries have made for granted.

BREAKING NEWS: A mob in Boston has torn down two statues from the Old State House and set them on fire.

This occurred on July 18, 1776, upon the first public proclamation of the Declaration of Independence in Massachusetts.

It's as American as apple pie.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Wishing Americans a Happy Independence Day is "divisive". Toppling statues of Founding Fathers and whining endlessly about some racist shit that happened in the distant past instead of being grateful for the fact that America has improved by leaps and bounds since then totally isn't.

I have every right to post here unless a mod tells me otherwise.

And we have every right to point out when you're spouting bullshit.

"We"? What are you, forum royalty?

If you can't handle New Bremerton's strong rhetoric, just put NB on Ignore. You're losing your own audience.

[Vassenor]

And we have every right to point out when you're spouting bullshit.

"We"? What are you, forum royalty?

If you can't handle New Bremerton's strong rhetoric, just put NB on Ignore. You're losing your own audience.

We, referring to the forum as a whole. And I already did. But putting someone on ignore doesn't hide it when someone else quotes them.

Also, "Strong Rhetoric"? Don't make me laugh.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Columbus was not a Founding Father of the United States. Why Americans even celebrate the exploits of a foreign privateer who lived long before the United States even existed and "discovered" America before the Natives who were already there for thousands of years did I have no idea. By the way, his real name was Cristobal Colon and I'm well aware of his litany of atrocities against the natives of the Americas. Ditto Hernan Cortez. I'm less familiar with Amerigo Vespucci apart from the fact that a country and two continents are named after him. I'm aware that America's history textbooks must reflect the good, the bad, and the ugly without commentary. I could care less about Columbus Day.

I draw a line when spiteful, ungrateful leftists attempt to cancel Independence Day and the Founding Fathers in a permanent, quasi-Maoist, cultural revolution, and I stand in solidarity with those who wish to preserve their nation's heritage, culture, and traditions. I happen to agree with Trump on that specific point. There is no shame in being an American. It sure beats being Chinese or North Korean. Western leftists are very quick to take their freedoms and the huge amount of social progress their countries have made for granted.

BREAKING NEWS: A mob in Boston has torn down two statues from the Old State House and set them on fire.

This occurred on July 18, 1776, upon the first public proclamation of the Declaration of Independence in Massachusetts.

It's as American as apple pie.

Two years later, fervent New Yorkers, with the help of Washington’s soldiers, quickly pulled it from its plinth and broke it into pieces. Much of the lead was shipped to Connecticut and melted down to make 42,008 bullets.

Those were statues of the King, who Americans went on to revolt against.

Does that seem remotely relevant to you?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

"We"? What are you, forum royalty?

If you can't handle New Bremerton's strong rhetoric, just put NB on Ignore. You're losing your own audience.

We, referring to the forum as a whole. And I already did. But putting someone on ignore doesn't hide it when someone else quotes them.

What are you, forum royalty?

How dare you speak for me!

Also, "Strong Rhetoric"? Don't make me laugh.

New Bremerton's stuff is heavily tainted with propaganda terms. I suggest that's the best avenue of attack. Either rebut or ignore the emotive shit, and beneath that NB has some major contradictions in their political philosophy.

Dismissing it all as "bullshit" is a weak-ass kind of "debate" which just calls on others stronger and braver than yourself to come to your defence.

And I won't come to your defense. New Bremerton is strong, I'm going to hang back and plan my moves. You're on your own girl.

[The Alma Mater]

Two years later, fervent New Yorkers, with the help of Washington’s soldiers, quickly pulled it from its plinth and broke it into pieces. Much of the lead was shipped to Connecticut and melted down to make 42,008 bullets.

Those were statues of the King, who Americans went on to revolt against.

Does that seem remotely relevant to you?

Are BLMers not revolting against slavers and oppressors ?

[Vassenor]

We, referring to the forum as a whole. And I already did. But putting someone on ignore doesn't hide it when someone else quotes them.

What are you, forum royalty?

How dare you speak for me!

Also, "Strong Rhetoric"? Don't make me laugh.

New Bremerton's stuff is heavily tainted with propaganda terms. I suggest that's the best avenue of attack. Either rebut or ignore the emotive shit, and beneath that NB has some major contradictions in their political philosophy.

Dismissing it all as "bullshit" is a weak-ass kind of "debate" which just calls on others stronger and braver than yourself to come to your defence.

And I won't come to your defense. New Bremerton is strong, I'm going to hang back and plan my moves. You're on your own girl.