MAGAThread XIX: Hambergers, Noble Prizes, & Disinfectant

[Eahland]

Besides which, I'm not opposed to these two gatherings taking place. In fact, I'm supportive of filling the stadium to the brim with Trump supporters. Have them standing in the aisles, pack them in, the more the *cough* merrier. *cough*

The problem is that the virus has an incubation period of a week or so, where it's asymptomatic but infectious. And Trump cultists tend to be aggressively disdainful of even basic health and safety precautions. And the disease does not know or care about your political affiliation. This amounts to calling for the deaths of not merely Trump supporters, but thousands of innocent people they'll spread the disease to.

Trump is obviously the worst, and making a real bid for "worst President the history of America".

This guy existed

Yeah, there's a reason I didn't say "is the worst President in the history of America". But, hey, he's still got seven months.

[Fahran]

Trump is basically the second Confederate president, or president for those who would have liked to see the Confederates win the CW.

This is untrue for a wide plethora of reasons, most prominently because we've had a bunch of racist presidents who did a good deal more to set back civil rights than Trump. Rutherford B. Hayes ended Reconstruction. Woodrow Wilson resegregated the military. Franklin D. Roosevelt laid some of the foundations for modern urban segregation. Richard Nixon employed the Southern Strategy and his anti-bussing position to court votes in the Upper South. Ronald Reagan promoted restrictions of gun-ownership to minimize black firearm ownership and counteract the Black Panthers and related organizations. Bill Clinton contributed to the expansion of the prison-industrial complex.

The kind of people who think Lincoln was some kind of tyrant for deciding a federal fort with federal troops had to be resupplied but Davis was a hero for ordering an attack on said federal fort.

See above even before opening this can of worms.

[Fahran]

As for hosting large rallies during a pandemic, it's not a good idea. It wasn't a good idea in response to the killing of George Floyd. It's not a good idea to drum up support for Trump. Masks will diminish the likelihood of you passing the virus on to someone else if you're already infected but social distancing is important to slowing the spread as well and spending hours marching around is going to expose other people - even if you're wearing a mask the whole time.

[Cisairse]

literally who likes obama

I dunno. People waxing nostalgic over a time when the President of the United States wasn't a senile Dunning-Krugers?

If the only good thing you can say about Obama is "he's not Trump," then Obama wasn't a good president

Like, there are things that I really like about Obama. But overall he was not a good president

[Cisairse]

NBC news really showing their hypocrisy

(Image)

Both of these are reported objectively.

If your problem is with the content of the news, attack the source of the event, not the person delivering the details.

[Tombradyonia]

I dunno. People waxing nostalgic over a time when the President of the United States wasn't a senile Dunning-Krugers?

If the only good thing you can say about Obama is "he's not Trump," then Obama wasn't a good president

Like, there are things that I really like about Obama. But overall he was not a good president

I was disappointed in Obama. I do recognize he was hamstrung by having a GOP controlled Congress for 6 out of his 8 years but still. Whistleblowers, Guantanamo, healthcare (it didn't go far enough for me), I expected more.
And apart from that, he let Rahm Emanuel and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz almost destroy the party.

But compared to his predecessor and successor, it's not even close and he's definately #1 in the 21st century.

[Proctopeo]

NBC news really showing their hypocrisy

(Image)

Both of these are reported objectively.

If your problem is with the content of the news, attack the source of the event, not the person delivering the details.

Perhaps the health experts should be questioning more decisions.

[Aureumterra]

Trump is basically the second Confederate president, or president for those who would have liked to see the Confederates win the CW.

This is untrue for a wide plethora of reasons, most prominently because we've had a bunch of racist presidents who did a good deal more to set back civil rights than Trump. Rutherford B. Hayes ended Reconstruction. Woodrow Wilson resegregated the military. Franklin D. Roosevelt laid some of the foundations for modern urban segregation. Richard Nixon employed the Southern Strategy and his anti-bussing position to court votes in the Upper South. Ronald Reagan promoted restrictions of gun-ownership to minimize black firearm ownership and counteract the Black Panthers and related organizations. Bill Clinton contributed to the expansion of the prison-industrial complex.

Not familiar with Franklin Roosevelt’s urban segregation actions, can you explain that?

[Aureumterra]

Besides which, I'm not opposed to these two gatherings taking place. In fact, I'm supportive of filling the stadium to the brim with Trump supporters. Have them standing in the aisles, pack them in, the more the *cough* merrier. *cough*

The problem is that the virus has an incubation period of a week or so, where it's asymptomatic but infectious. And Trump cultists tend to be aggressively disdainful of even basic health and safety precautions. And the disease does not know or care about your political affiliation. This amounts to calling for the deaths of not merely Trump supporters, but thousands of innocent people they'll spread the disease to.

I am of the radical opinion that hoping for the deaths of people is disgusting and vile

[Cisairse]

If the only good thing you can say about Obama is "he's not Trump," then Obama wasn't a good president

Like, there are things that I really like about Obama. But overall he was not a good president

I was disappointed in Obama. I do recognize he was hamstrung by having a GOP controlled Congress for 6 out of his 8 years but still. Whistleblowers, Guantanamo, healthcare (it didn't go far enough for me), I expected more.
And apart from that, he let Rahm Emanuel and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz almost destroy the party.

But compared to his predecessor and successor, it's not even close and he's definately #1 in the 21st century.

#1 in the 21st century is a pretty terrible standard to be #1 by.

Like, congrats, you weren't as bad as Bill Clinton, George Bush, or Donald Trump. What a shining achievement.

[Eahland]

The problem is that the virus has an incubation period of a week or so, where it's asymptomatic but infectious. And Trump cultists tend to be aggressively disdainful of even basic health and safety precautions. And the disease does not know or care about your political affiliation. This amounts to calling for the deaths of not merely Trump supporters, but thousands of innocent people they'll spread the disease to.

I am of the radical opinion that hoping for the deaths of people is disgusting and vile

Yes. Also, I believe, against forum rules.

[Kowani]

This is untrue for a wide plethora of reasons, most prominently because we've had a bunch of racist presidents who did a good deal more to set back civil rights than Trump. Rutherford B. Hayes ended Reconstruction. Woodrow Wilson resegregated the military. Franklin D. Roosevelt laid some of the foundations for modern urban segregation. Richard Nixon employed the Southern Strategy and his anti-bussing position to court votes in the Upper South. Ronald Reagan promoted restrictions of gun-ownership to minimize black firearm ownership and counteract the Black Panthers and related organizations. Bill Clinton contributed to the expansion of the prison-industrial complex.

Not familiar with Franklin Roosevelt’s urban segregation actions, can you explain that?

It’s both an FDR and ironically, Eisenhower, thing.
FDR’s FHA didn’t loan to black people, and the presence of black families in the neighborhood automatically lowered housing values, regardless of their income or criminal history. If Jesus has risen black and moved into a house back then, the white people still would’ve fled.


Eisenhower is the birth of suburbia, and redlining comes back into play under him.

[Cannot think of a name]

NBC news really showing their hypocrisy

(Image)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... s-n1231041

Campaign and White House officials say the protests — and the limited public health outcry they generated — gave them cover. If it was OK for tens of thousands of people to march through the streets, demanding racial justice, why can't Trump rally his supporters, too?

Of course, the protests were held outside, with many participants wearing masks.

“Any large gathering, whether of protesters or ralliers, is dangerous,” [Dr. Ashish Jha, director of Harvard’s Global Health Institute,] said. But infection is less likely at an outdoors moving march than at a crowded event in an enclosed space, he said, citing the air flow.

Hey look, if you read past the headline NBC actually mentions that exact issue, and even raised it with the public health expert they interviewed.

Reading past the headlines...heretic.

[Fahran]

Reading past the headlines...heretic.

Headlines and overall presentation do matter in conveying a message - and the two headlines in this case suggest dramatically different conclusions about events that are practically the same.

[Fartsniffage]

Reading past the headlines...heretic.

Headlines and overall presentation do matter in conveying a message - and the two headlines in this case suggest dramatically different conclusions about events that are practically the same.

They are not practically the same. One is organised by the sitting President who is supposed to have the health of US citizens at heart and is indoors, the other is a protest about police brutality outdoors.

But I can see how you might be confused. Licking boot polish isn't good for thought processes....

[Fahran]

They are not practically the same. One is organised by the sitting President who is supposed to have the health of US citizens at heart and is indoors, the other is a protest about police brutality outdoors.

But I can see how you might be confused. Licking boot polish isn't good for thought processes....

In the context of cramming a large number of people into a confined space in close proximity to one another during a pandemic when we should all be social distancing, they're the same. People are probably going to get sick with a dangerous respiratory disease as a result of both events. That was my point. And that was the point of the article referencing Trump's rallys as well. And it's a fundamentally good and accurate point.

This has nothing to do with licking boot polish. I'm a bit perplexed that was the first argument that popped into your head given that I support criminal justice reform and oppose demonstrations or rallys of any sort during a major pandemic as a matter of public health and safety.

[Fartsniffage]

They are not practically the same. One is organised by the sitting President who is supposed to have the health of US citizens at heart and is indoors, the other is a protest about police brutality outdoors.

But I can see how you might be confused. Licking boot polish isn't good for thought processes....

In the context of cramming a large number of people into a confined space in close proximity to one another during a pandemic when we should all be social distancing, they're the same. People are probably going to get sick with a dangerous respiratory disease as a result of both events. That was my point. And that was the point of the article referencing Trump's rallys as well. And it's a fundamentally good and accurate point.

This has nothing to do with licking boot polish. I'm a bit perplexed that was the first argument that popped into your head given that I support criminal justice reform and oppose demonstrations or rallys of any sort during a major pandemic as a matter of public health and safety.

You honestly can't see the difference between a Presidential rally and protests?

[Fahran]

You honestly can't see the difference between a Presidential rally and protests?

Not in terms relevant to the actual conversation we were having. Bringing up that we have a specific prominent politician behaving in an irresponsible manner versuses multiple less prominent politicians, activist groups, and grassroots organizations behaving in an irresponsible manner, with both forms behavior contributing to a similar effect, isn't that relevant. People are still behaving irresponsibly and endangering public health, which is the point. I have no idea why you interpreted that simple statement as boot-licking or pro-Trump. It's very much not.

[Farnhamia]

The Trump rally is in a stadium, a wide open space, not much different from a packed outdoors rally, except with a roof well over your head. Regardless, the existence of a roof does not make the coronavirus spread any faster than a packed rally outside, it’s completely fine to point out the problems in holding packed rallies during coronavirus times, but at least be consistent and do a good job of hiding your hypocrisy

The fact that it takes place in an indoor stadium is taken into account.

Trump's rally will be held indoors, at a 19,000-seat arena that has cancelled all other events through the end of July. Scientists believe the virus spreads far more easily in crowded enclosed spaces than it does outdoors, where circulating air has a better chance of dispersing virus particles.

Shelley Payne, director of the LaMontagne Center for Infectious Disease at the University of Texas at Austin, said the Trump rally meets every criteria for the riskiest type of event.

Oh the hypocrisy of viewing different things differently.

Besides which, I'm not opposed to these two gatherings taking place. In fact, I'm supportive of filling the stadium to the brim with Trump supporters. Have them standing in the aisles, pack them in, the more the *cough* merrier. *cough*

Fun fact, wishing harm on people is against the rules here. A person would think that after eight years wouldn't have at least glanced at the Rules.

[Zapato]

The fact that it takes place in an indoor stadium is taken into account.

Trump's rally will be held indoors, at a 19,000-seat arena that has cancelled all other events through the end of July. Scientists believe the virus spreads far more easily in crowded enclosed spaces than it does outdoors, where circulating air has a better chance of dispersing virus particles.

Shelley Payne, director of the LaMontagne Center for Infectious Disease at the University of Texas at Austin, said the Trump rally meets every criteria for the riskiest type of event.

Oh the hypocrisy of viewing different things differently.

Besides which, I'm not opposed to these two gatherings taking place. In fact, I'm supportive of filling the stadium to the brim with Trump supporters. Have them standing in the aisles, pack them in, the more the *cough* merrier. *cough*

Fun fact, wishing harm on people is against the rules here. A person would think that after eight years wouldn't have at least glanced at the Rules.

Of course, the rules say nothing about wishing harm on people, but I'll apologize for phrasing it in a manner which could be taken the wrong way regardless. To be clear, I do not wish permanent or serious harm on anyone.

Also, Jesus Christ, really? Really?! 8 years, you've got to be kidding me....

[Farnhamia]

Fun fact, wishing harm on people is against the rules here. A person would think that after eight years wouldn't have at least glanced at the Rules.

Of course, the rules say nothing about wishing harm on people, but I'll apologize for phrasing it in a manner which could be taken the wrong way regardless. To be clear, I do not wish permanent or serious harm on anyone.

Also, Jesus Christ, really? Really?! 8 years, you've got to be kidding me....

It's trolling. don't do it, not even in jest. And yeah, you look away for ONE MINUTE and eight years go by.

[Zapato]

Of course, the rules say nothing about wishing harm on people, but I'll apologize for phrasing it in a manner which could be taken the wrong way regardless. To be clear, I do not wish permanent or serious harm on anyone.

Also, Jesus Christ, really? Really?! 8 years, you've got to be kidding me....

It's trolling. don't do it, not even in jest. And yeah, you look away for ONE MINUTE and eight years go by.

Duly noted, thanks for the correction.

I mean, if every year had been like 2020 I could understand because this year doesn't stop for anything, but the other seven I just... don't know what happened there.

[Gormwood]

Morning Joe got hold of the new DNC ad and DAMN, it's vicious.

[Ifreann]

Reading past the headlines...heretic.

Headlines and overall presentation do matter in conveying a message - and the two headlines in this case suggest dramatically different conclusions about events that are practically the same.

That's an interesting way to describe events that are, in fact, explicitly laid out as being different wrt disease transmission by a relevant expert in the article we're discussing.

“Any large gathering, whether of protesters or ralliers, is dangerous,” [Dr. Ashish Jha, director of Harvard’s Global Health Institute,] said. But infection is less likely at an outdoors moving march than at a crowded event in an enclosed space, he said, citing the air flow.

And that makes sense, doesn't it? This is a respiratory disease, it's just intuitively obvious that when your breath is dispersed into the open air that you are less likely to infect other people, whereas the risk would be greater within an enclosed area.

[Galloism]

In the context of cramming a large number of people into a confined space in close proximity to one another during a pandemic when we should all be social distancing, they're the same. People are probably going to get sick with a dangerous respiratory disease as a result of both events. That was my point. And that was the point of the article referencing Trump's rallys as well. And it's a fundamentally good and accurate point.

This has nothing to do with licking boot polish. I'm a bit perplexed that was the first argument that popped into your head given that I support criminal justice reform and oppose demonstrations or rallys of any sort during a major pandemic as a matter of public health and safety.

You honestly can't see the difference between a Presidential rally and protests?

Both are expressly political assemblies engaging in speech towards changing political circumstances.

Functionally, there’s little difference except the indoor/outdoor dichotomy.

And, given the pandemic, both are very likely to lead to deaths.