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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Fri May 01, 2020 5:46 am

Valrifell wrote:
Ifreann wrote:
Gravity isn't written in stone. Throw your phone out the window, see if it falls.



The What If? blog, by the writer of XKCD, has an entry about what would happen if a pitcher threw a baseball at near light speed, 0.9c.
Image


That's not fair, Iffy, we all know that Sir Isaac Newton carved the laws of physics into enchanted rune stones to preserve them in perpetuity, a spell only the powerful wizard Einstein was able to disrupt and modify to secure his legacy.


No, but that cartoon illustrates my entire point, even though it underestimates in a bit. Anyone devising a technology that simply does not blow up while moving at that speed, is (while obeying the laws of physics) one not to be fucked with by current humans
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri May 01, 2020 5:52 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Simple physics. Cloaking technology, such as it's presented in science fiction, would necessarily blind the cloaked vessel and create a pretty obvious shadow.

Our current understanding of physics must be broadly accurate, since the technology we have built upon that understanding works. If we're wrong about how light behaves then cameras wouldn't work. And I trust you agree that cameras do work.



Same reason you can't both cover your eyes and see. And decelerating towards Earth would entail pointing the vessel's engine at Earth, something that would obviously be pretty noticeable. Which an alien vessel would have to do, since a vessel entering Earth's atmosphere at even near light speed would be literally the last thing to happen to life on this planet.



We can't cloak planes.


We can change their electrical appearance. We are 25 years into the technology, give it another 1000 and see where we are.

It doesn't matter how long you spend on it, as the man says, ye cannae change the laws o' physics.
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beating the devil
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Ethel mermania
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Fri May 01, 2020 6:01 am

Ifreann wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
We can change their electrical appearance. We are 25 years into the technology, give it another 1000 and see where we are.

It doesn't matter how long you spend on it, as the man says, ye cannae change the laws o' physics.

Aye, matey, I am not saying you do, I am saying you have to change the appearance, not the the actual characteristics of ship

Kinda like calling me Ishmael, arrrgh
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri May 01, 2020 6:33 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:It doesn't matter how long you spend on it, as the man says, ye cannae change the laws o' physics.

Aye, matey, I am not saying you do, I am saying you have to change the appearance, not the the actual characteristics of ship

Kinda like calling me Ishmael, arrrgh

The things we do to hide planes from radar wouldn't really work to hide a ship in space from telescopes. If the ship's hull didn't reflect light, then it would still block light and essentially cast a shadow on the planet. If some kind of technology was employed to bend light around the ship, so that it didn't block light, then the ship would necessarily be blind, because light isn't reaching it.
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beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Fri May 01, 2020 6:36 am

Ifreann wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Aye, matey, I am not saying you do, I am saying you have to change the appearance, not the the actual characteristics of ship

Kinda like calling me Ishmael, arrrgh

The things we do to hide planes from radar wouldn't really work to hide a ship in space from telescopes. If the ship's hull didn't reflect light, then it would still block light and essentially cast a shadow on the planet. If some kind of technology was employed to bend light around the ship, so that it didn't block light, then the ship would necessarily be blind, because light isn't reaching it.

An electronic one way screen. (Much like a one way mirror) You project an image you can see through.
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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Hillary Clinton 2016-2024
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Postby Hillary Clinton 2016-2024 » Fri May 01, 2020 6:43 am

When I show up I'm just a little sectoid, but later on I become a mechtoid
You may spot me, then I move free, then I land a crit on your rookie.
Can't see me, can't shoot me, but I'm fucked when you try to flank me.
Came to Earth in a silver chrome UFO,
to probe your ass and see how deep it can go.
Gain a boost when I merge my mind with my bro
Ayy lmao!
NS quotes I like
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They're making their erections great again.

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North coryo
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Ex-Nation

I think that

Postby North coryo » Fri May 01, 2020 6:48 am

I think that there are many galaxies other than ours that have life.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri May 01, 2020 7:09 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The things we do to hide planes from radar wouldn't really work to hide a ship in space from telescopes. If the ship's hull didn't reflect light, then it would still block light and essentially cast a shadow on the planet. If some kind of technology was employed to bend light around the ship, so that it didn't block light, then the ship would necessarily be blind, because light isn't reaching it.

An electronic one way screen. (Much like a one way mirror) You project an image you can see through.

One-way mirrors aren't actually one-way, just hard to see through when the light's off in the observation room. Vision works by light bouncing off an object and into our eyes. For the cops to be able to see into the interrogation room, light has to be passing through the mirror. Some of the light reflects off, but not all, just like being able to see through a pane of glass and also see your own reflection.

But even if we suppose some way for light to be allowed to reach the ship but blocked from getting back to Earth...now you're casting a shadow on Earth. The light coming from behind the ship would stop reaching us. Stars in that part of the sky would seem to have disappeared.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri May 01, 2020 7:10 am

What if the Aliens just wana bang tho
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri May 01, 2020 7:15 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:What if the Aliens just wana bang tho

They'll have to come back after the pandemic.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri May 01, 2020 8:05 am

Ifreann wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Aye, matey, I am not saying you do, I am saying you have to change the appearance, not the the actual characteristics of ship

Kinda like calling me Ishmael, arrrgh

The things we do to hide planes from radar wouldn't really work to hide a ship in space from telescopes. If the ship's hull didn't reflect light, then it would still block light and essentially cast a shadow on the planet. If some kind of technology was employed to bend light around the ship, so that it didn't block light, then the ship would necessarily be blind, because light isn't reaching it.


Do you think there is life on other planets and that all yet to be explained sightings are something terrestrial?

Can you explain the Lonnie Zamora incident, Kenneth Arnold sighting, Val Johnson incident or Exeter incident? All involved things that defy the laws of physics as you and others say.

Not even Project Blue Book which had a skeptical viewpoint to begin with could explain the Zamora case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonnie_Zamora_incident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exeter_incident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_A ... O_sighting

Or explain this one?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air ... 8_incident
Last edited by San Lumen on Fri May 01, 2020 8:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Northern Davincia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Fri May 01, 2020 8:12 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:What if the Aliens just wana bang tho

Mass Effect is always there when we need it.
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Fri May 01, 2020 8:14 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The things we do to hide planes from radar wouldn't really work to hide a ship in space from telescopes. If the ship's hull didn't reflect light, then it would still block light and essentially cast a shadow on the planet. If some kind of technology was employed to bend light around the ship, so that it didn't block light, then the ship would necessarily be blind, because light isn't reaching it.


Do you think there is life on other planets and that all yet to be explained sightings are something terrestrial?

Can you explain the Lonnie Zamora incident, Kenneth Arnold sighting, Val Johnson incident or Exeter incident? All involved things that defy the laws of physics as you and others say.

Not even Project Blue Book which had a skeptical viewpoint to begin with could explain the Zamora case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonnie_Zamora_incident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exeter_incident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_A ... O_sighting

Or explain this one?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air ... 8_incident

Project Blue Book sounds like one of those things the military setup to be like "see guys, it totes isn't our super secret aircraft, even we're looking into them."

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The Huskar Social Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri May 01, 2020 8:15 am

Northern Davincia wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:What if the Aliens just wana bang tho

Mass Effect is always there when we need it.

We'll bang okay
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Leftwing / Atheist / Alliance Party voter
"I never thought in terms of being a leader, i thought very simply in terms of helping people" - John Hume 1937 - 2020



I like Miniature painting, Tanks, English Gals, Video games and most importantly Cheese.


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San Lumen
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Fri May 01, 2020 8:17 am

Alvecia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Do you think there is life on other planets and that all yet to be explained sightings are something terrestrial?

Can you explain the Lonnie Zamora incident, Kenneth Arnold sighting, Val Johnson incident or Exeter incident? All involved things that defy the laws of physics as you and others say.

Not even Project Blue Book which had a skeptical viewpoint to begin with could explain the Zamora case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonnie_Zamora_incident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exeter_incident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_A ... O_sighting

Or explain this one?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air ... 8_incident

Project Blue Book sounds like one of those things the military setup to be like "see guys, it totes isn't our super secret aircraft, even we're looking into them."

Project Blue Book was a official government study to examine Ufos from 1952 to 1970 and determine if they posed a threat to national security

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri May 01, 2020 8:18 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The things we do to hide planes from radar wouldn't really work to hide a ship in space from telescopes. If the ship's hull didn't reflect light, then it would still block light and essentially cast a shadow on the planet. If some kind of technology was employed to bend light around the ship, so that it didn't block light, then the ship would necessarily be blind, because light isn't reaching it.


Do you think there is life on other planets

Given the size of the universe that would seem to be a near certainty.
and that all yet to be explained sightings are something terrestrial?

Yes.

Can you explain the Lonnie Zamora incident, Kenneth Arnold sighting, Val Johnson incident or Exeter incident? All involved things that defy the laws of physics as you and others say.

If these incidents are unexplained then you don't actually know what happened. You don't know that the laws of physics as we know them were broken. But the fact that you don't have an explanation doesn't mean it was aliens.
He/Him

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri May 01, 2020 8:19 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Do you think there is life on other planets

Given the size of the universe that would seem to be a near certainty.
and that all yet to be explained sightings are something terrestrial?

Yes.

Can you explain the Lonnie Zamora incident, Kenneth Arnold sighting, Val Johnson incident or Exeter incident? All involved things that defy the laws of physics as you and others say.

If these incidents are unexplained then you don't actually know what happened. You don't know that the laws of physics as we know them were broken. But the fact that you don't have an explanation doesn't mean it was aliens.


Read the Lonnie Zamora case. Try and explain that one or the Japan Airlines case.

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Ifreann
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Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Fri May 01, 2020 8:20 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Given the size of the universe that would seem to be a near certainty.

Yes.


If these incidents are unexplained then you don't actually know what happened. You don't know that the laws of physics as we know them were broken. But the fact that you don't have an explanation doesn't mean it was aliens.


Read the Lonnie Zamora case. Try and explain that one or the Japan Airlines case.

The fact that we don't have an explanation doesn't mean it was aliens.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
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we never

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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Fri May 01, 2020 8:20 am

San Lumen wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Project Blue Book sounds like one of those things the military setup to be like "see guys, it totes isn't our super secret aircraft, even we're looking into them."

Project Blue Book was a official government study to examine Ufos from 1952 to 1970 and determine if they posed a threat to national security

Yeah, like I said.

Though there's a good chance they also figured they could use it to see if it was someone else's super secret aircraft as well. Make sure those commies weren't doing some high tech spying.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri May 01, 2020 8:24 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Read the Lonnie Zamora case. Try and explain that one or the Japan Airlines case.

The fact that we don't have an explanation doesn't mean it was aliens.

Im not saying it was aliens either but to say that there is no species in the galaxy that has developed interstellar travel i believe is quite fanciful.

If they truly didnt want us to know they were here they likely have the technology to do so. Humans can be very arrogant sometimes.

You say you can't make ships invisible well even one of the most renowned physicists in the world Michio Kaku said we will probably develop invisibility in a few decades. Research has already shown its theoretically possible

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Northern Davincia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Fri May 01, 2020 8:25 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Mass Effect is always there when we need it.

We'll bang okay

If you're not ready, get ready.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
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Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Republic of Vareshia
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Founded: Apr 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Republic of Vareshia » Fri May 01, 2020 8:28 am

More life in the universe is better (I know we might make them extinct with bacteria and vise versa) but still expanding our knowledge of the universe would be awesome.

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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Fri May 01, 2020 8:28 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The fact that we don't have an explanation doesn't mean it was aliens.

Im not saying it was aliens either but to say that there is no species in the galaxy that has developed interstellar travel i believe is quite fanciful.

If they truly didnt want us to know they were here they likely have the technology to do so. Humans can be very arrogant sometimes.

You say you can't make ships invisible well even one of the most renowned physicists in the world Michio Kaku said we will probably develop invisibility in a few decades. Research has already shown its theoretically possible

Michio Kaku is well know for being very fanciful with the things he predicts. He very much an overly optimistic futurist

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Ifreann
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Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Fri May 01, 2020 8:34 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The fact that we don't have an explanation doesn't mean it was aliens.

Im not saying it was aliens either but to say that there is no species in the galaxy that has developed interstellar travel i believe is quite fanciful.

Such a civilisation may well exist, but must be very far away from us or we'd have noticed.

If they truly didnt want us to know they were here they likely have the technology to do so.

Not really.
Humans can be very arrogant sometimes.

It isn't arrogant to recognise that we have learned some things about how the universe works and that those things must be more or less accurate. Again, if you really believe that our understanding of the universe is so flimsy then defenstrate your phone.

You say you can't make ships invisible...

No, I've said that doing so would necessarily blind the vessel.
Last edited by Ifreann on Fri May 01, 2020 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
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we never

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri May 01, 2020 8:37 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Im not saying it was aliens either but to say that there is no species in the galaxy that has developed interstellar travel i believe is quite fanciful.

Such a civilisation may well exist, but must be very far away from us or we'd have noticed.

If they truly didnt want us to know they were here they likely have the technology to do so.

Not really.
Humans can be very arrogant sometimes.

It isn't arrogant to recognise that we have learned some thing about how the universe works and that those things must be more or less accurate.

You say you can't make ships invisible...

No, I've said that doing so would necessarily blind the vessel.


You are aware with our current technology we cannot directly observe the surface of exosolar planets?

Just because we understand how something works now doesnt mean it won't be challenged in the future. Like I said before it was once that moons couldnt be geologically active.

And just because we think if would blind the vessel doesnt mean it would.

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