The Future of China

[Hurdergaryp]

I doubt it. Unless you are only thinking of the holocaust then sure I guess

You can doubt it all you want. I'm just telling you flatly, at best your choice of words were poor.

And at worst Slavakino lusts for carnage on an industrial scale and doesn't exactly make an effort to hide his genocidal desire.

[Rusozak]

Given sufficient political reforms, it's unlikely one could rise to become paramount leader, since there would be protests and popular backlash. Political reforms would embolden democratic activists and reduce political apathy, much as Deng Xiaoping's did, creating the Tiananmen protests.

I wouldn't say that the protests in 1989 and the subsequent suppression is exactly conducive to further political reforms.

Maybe not initially, but regardless of the government's efforts to suppress such knowledge, people don't tend to forget when their own army gunned down their friends and neighbors.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Given sufficient political reforms, it's unlikely one could rise to become paramount leader, since there would be protests and popular backlash. Political reforms would embolden democratic activists and reduce political apathy, much as Deng Xiaoping's did, creating the Tiananmen protests.

I wouldn't say that the protests in 1989 and the subsequent suppression is exactly conducive to further political reforms.

If anything, it has made the Chinese leadership more averse to that type of sudden violent action, which is why they've mostly let the Hong Kong protests to sort themselves out without intervention from the mainland.

[Slavakino]

You can doubt it all you want. I'm just telling you flatly, at best your choice of words were poor.

And at worst Slavakino lusts for carnage on an industrial scale and doesn't exactly make an effort to hide his genocidal desire.

Lolno.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

I wouldn't say that the protests in 1989 and the subsequent suppression is exactly conducive to further political reforms.

If anything, it has made the Chinese leadership more averse to that type of sudden violent action, which is why they've mostly let the Hong Kong protests to sort themselves out without intervention from the mainland.

CCP,They just don't want to mess with these things.Because the agreement with Britain, no matter how it is done, will cause trouble. It's better not to do anything.Protesters in Hong Kong have yet to dare to attack the PLA like the 89.Is the Communist party worried? No, in fact, the public opinion in mainland China is contrary to western public opinion, and they feel sick to Neoliberalism and have long been dissatisfied with Hong Kong.In other words, it is totally two ideological systems with Europe and the US. This led to what the western people thought was right, where it was considered stupid and ridiculous.
If Lin's government admits that it can't control the situation one day, it's clear that Hong Kong won't enjoy autonomy and Hong Kong's capitalists will panic.
In addition, what do Chinese people think of Tiananmen incident?There is a serious generation gap.People born in the 1960s and 1970s, and young people at the time of Tiananmen Square incident, usually opposed the government's actions at that time.But the public opinion born in the 1980s and 1990s was the opposite, and went to the other extreme. Their principle is "I will oppose whatever the West supports, and I will support whatever the West opposes."

[Rusozak]

If anything, it has made the Chinese leadership more averse to that type of sudden violent action, which is why they've mostly let the Hong Kong protests to sort themselves out without intervention from the mainland.

CCP,They just don't want to mess with these things.Because the agreement with Britain, no matter how it is done, will cause trouble. It's better not to do anything.Protesters in Hong Kong have yet to dare to attack the PLA like the 89.Is the Communist party worried? No, in fact, the public opinion in mainland China is contrary to western public opinion, and they feel sick to Neoliberalism and have long been dissatisfied with Hong Kong.In other words, it is totally two ideological systems with Europe and the US. This led to what the western people thought was right, where it was considered stupid and ridiculous.
If Lin's government admits that it can't control the situation one day, it's clear that Hong Kong won't enjoy autonomy and Hong Kong's capitalists will panic.
In addition, what do Chinese people think of Tiananmen incident?There is a serious generation gap.People born in the 1960s and 1970s, and young people at the time of Tiananmen Square incident, usually opposed the government's actions at that time.But the public opinion born in the 1980s and 1990s was the opposite, and went to the other extreme. Their principle is "I will oppose whatever the West supports, and I will support whatever the West opposes."

I thought the Tiananmen Square massacre "never happened" and anything to suggest the party is anything but benevolent is western propaganda.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

CCP,They just don't want to mess with these things.Because the agreement with Britain, no matter how it is done, will cause trouble. It's better not to do anything.Protesters in Hong Kong have yet to dare to attack the PLA like the 89.Is the Communist party worried? No, in fact, the public opinion in mainland China is contrary to western public opinion, and they feel sick to Neoliberalism and have long been dissatisfied with Hong Kong.In other words, it is totally two ideological systems with Europe and the US. This led to what the western people thought was right, where it was considered stupid and ridiculous.
If Lin's government admits that it can't control the situation one day, it's clear that Hong Kong won't enjoy autonomy and Hong Kong's capitalists will panic.
In addition, what do Chinese people think of Tiananmen incident?There is a serious generation gap.People born in the 1960s and 1970s, and young people at the time of Tiananmen Square incident, usually opposed the government's actions at that time.But the public opinion born in the 1980s and 1990s was the opposite, and went to the other extreme. Their principle is "I will oppose whatever the West supports, and I will support whatever the West opposes."

I thought the Tiananmen Square massacre "never happened" and anything to suggest the party is anything but benevolent is western propaganda.

All Chinese know about it.Besides, they like to talk about politics at the dinner table very much.There are a lot of anti Communist comments on the Internet in China, but in fact, the CCP doesn't care about them as long as no one reports（Civil servants, want to be lazy, don't want to increase workload）

[Bombadil]

I thought the Tiananmen Square massacre "never happened" and anything to suggest the party is anything but benevolent is western propaganda.

All Chinese know about it.Besides, they like to talk about politics at the dinner table very much.There are a lot of anti Communist comments on the Internet in China, but in fact, the CCP doesn't care about them as long as no one reports（Civil servants, want to be lazy, don't want to increase workload）

The CCP doesn't care unless it starts to trend, any anti-CCP comment that starts to be shared widely is blocked. No point cracking down on all opinions, just those that are popular.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

All Chinese know about it.Besides, they like to talk about politics at the dinner table very much.There are a lot of anti Communist comments on the Internet in China, but in fact, the CCP doesn't care about them as long as no one reports（Civil servants, want to be lazy, don't want to increase workload）

The CCP doesn't care unless it starts to trend, any anti-CCP comment that starts to be shared widely is blocked. No point cracking down on all opinions, just those that are popular.

Yep,when your opinion gets enough attention, you'd better be careful.Interestingly, public opinion supervision department only look at the number of reports without checking whether the reports are true.So when the public hates something, they report it as "secessionist" or "pornographic."
such as "Minecraft was command to rectified for pornography" and "Animal Crossing is banned for supporting secession ".

[Rusozak]

The CCP doesn't care unless it starts to trend, any anti-CCP comment that starts to be shared widely is blocked. No point cracking down on all opinions, just those that are popular.

Yep,when your opinion gets enough attention, you'd better be careful.Interestingly, public opinion supervision department only look at the number of reports without checking whether the reports are true.So when the public hates something, they report it as "secessionist" or "pornographic."
such as "Minecraft was command to rectified for pornography" and "Animal Crossing is banned for supporting secession ".

And no one questions if a "public opinion supervision department" is despotic?

[Bombadil]

Yep,when your opinion gets enough attention, you'd better be careful.Interestingly, public opinion supervision department only look at the number of reports without checking whether the reports are true.So when the public hates something, they report it as "secessionist" or "pornographic."
such as "Minecraft was command to rectified for pornography" and "Animal Crossing is banned for supporting secession ".

And no one questions if a "public opinion supervision department" is despotic?

It just is.. people know to self-censor, self-censorship is a government's greatest victory, it pulls a blanket over free discourse. Generally Chinese people can hold two thoughts in their heads, the one they keep to themselves and the face they put on in public.

[Rusozak]

And no one questions if a "public opinion supervision department" is despotic?

It just is.. people know to self-censor, self-censorship is a government's greatest victory, it pulls a blanket over free discourse. Generally Chinese people can hold two thoughts in their heads, the one they keep to themselves and the face they put on in public.

What you keep to yourself doesn't bring change, however.

[Bombadil]

It just is.. people know to self-censor, self-censorship is a government's greatest victory, it pulls a blanket over free discourse. Generally Chinese people can hold two thoughts in their heads, the one they keep to themselves and the face they put on in public.

What you keep to yourself doesn't bring change, however.

Well quite, the CCP certainly doesn't want change, and absolutely not from the people.

[Rusozak]

What you keep to yourself doesn't bring change, however.

Well quite, the CCP certainly doesn't want change, and absolutely not from the people.

Ironic for the "People's Republic" to repress the will of the people.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

CCP,They just don't want to mess with these things.Because the agreement with Britain, no matter how it is done, will cause trouble. It's better not to do anything.Protesters in Hong Kong have yet to dare to attack the PLA like the 89.Is the Communist party worried? No, in fact, the public opinion in mainland China is contrary to western public opinion, and they feel sick to Neoliberalism and have long been dissatisfied with Hong Kong.In other words, it is totally two ideological systems with Europe and the US. This led to what the western people thought was right, where it was considered stupid and ridiculous.
If Lin's government admits that it can't control the situation one day, it's clear that Hong Kong won't enjoy autonomy and Hong Kong's capitalists will panic.
In addition, what do Chinese people think of Tiananmen incident?There is a serious generation gap.People born in the 1960s and 1970s, and young people at the time of Tiananmen Square incident, usually opposed the government's actions at that time.But the public opinion born in the 1980s and 1990s was the opposite, and went to the other extreme. Their principle is "I will oppose whatever the West supports, and I will support whatever the West opposes."

I thought the Tiananmen Square massacre "never happened" and anything to suggest the party is anything but benevolent is western propaganda.

It's briefly skimmed over in textbooks, and the protests are chalked up to "counterrevolutionaries."

[Shanghai industrial complex]

And no one questions if a "public opinion supervision department" is despotic?

It just is.. people know to self-censor, self-censorship is a government's greatest victory, it pulls a blanket over free discourse. Generally Chinese people can hold two thoughts in their heads, the one they keep to themselves and the face they put on in public.

Errr...Be careful not to let people who disagree with you see it.This mechanism actually becomes a means for people of different opinions to attack their opponents.For example, before the trade war, you can't support China under the Weibo account of the U.S. Embassy in China, which will be reported as "radical speech".There are still a lot of public figures and fans against China.

Self censorship?Impossible.Too many people.And there's too much extreme talk. Organizing people to speak more about cyber violence.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Well quite, the CCP certainly doesn't want change, and absolutely not from the people.

Ironic for the "People's Republic" to repress the will of the people.

Yep,to a certain extent.They usually think that people have a certain degree of irrationality ,shortsightedness,easily incited and manipulated and need them to limit it.CCP believes that this is the protection of the people.It can be said to be an elite thought.（Many CCP officials are really stupid）

[Shanghai industrial complex]

I thought the Tiananmen Square massacre "never happened" and anything to suggest the party is anything but benevolent is western propaganda.

It's briefly skimmed over in textbooks, and the protests are chalked up to "counterrevolutionaries."

"Neo liberalism makes use of the riots caused by students"

[Rusozak]

It's briefly skimmed over in textbooks, and the protests are chalked up to "counterrevolutionaries."

"Neo liberalism makes use of the riots caused by students"

So probably nothing about how the People's Liberation Army massacred the people.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

"Neo liberalism makes use of the riots caused by students"

So probably nothing about how the People's Liberation Army massacred the people.

Massacred？If you use the word, it doesn't.If students are killed or injured,yes. In addition, there are videos and photos of students dragging the PLA out of armored vehicles and burning them or hanging them on street lamps.I don't know if you know this part.

[Rusozak]

So probably nothing about how the People's Liberation Army massacred the people.

Massacred？If you use the word, it doesn't.If students are killed or injured,yes. In addition, there are videos and photos of students dragging the PLA out of armored vehicles and burning them or hanging them on street lamps.I don't know if you know this part.

I didn't know that, and I don't deny that may have happened. But it's no justification for army to mow down thousands of (mostly) unarmed protesters. I suppose state media would also deny or twist the truth of the Uyghur genocide, the Yulin dog festival, the millions of deaths Mao was responsible for (eclipsing Stalin and Hitler), and any other of the PRC's long list of atrocities.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Massacred？If you use the word, it doesn't.If students are killed or injured,yes. In addition, there are videos and photos of students dragging the PLA out of armored vehicles and burning them or hanging them on street lamps.I don't know if you know this part.

I didn't know that, and I don't deny that may have happened. But it's no justification for army to mow down thousands of (mostly) unarmed protesters. I suppose state media would also deny or twist the truth of the Uyghur genocide, the Yulin dog festival, the millions of deaths Mao was responsible for (eclipsing Stalin and Hitler), and any other of the PRC's long list of atrocities.

So I ask you, students don't have guns. So, the CCP will catch them and throw them in jail. Why do they have to do this stupid action that only the villains in American movies can do?What are the benefits?I don't know if you've ever thought about this statement.Or have you actually seen the bodies in Tian'anmen Square?
Have you ever thought that the news and reading materials about Tiananmen always say that thousands of people have been killed, all the videos have. But it's always missing, blood.Where is the most important part?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4woMuFZAx88

[Rusozak]

I didn't know that, and I don't deny that may have happened. But it's no justification for army to mow down thousands of (mostly) unarmed protesters. I suppose state media would also deny or twist the truth of the Uyghur genocide, the Yulin dog festival, the millions of deaths Mao was responsible for (eclipsing Stalin and Hitler), and any other of the PRC's long list of atrocities.

So I ask you, students don't have guns. So, the CCP will catch them and throw them in jail. Why do they have to do this stupid action that only the villains in American movies can do?What are the benefits?I don't know if you've ever thought about this statement.Or have you actually seen the bodies in Tian'anmen Square?
Have you ever thought that the news and reading materials about Tiananmen always say that thousands of people have been killed, all the videos have. But it's always missing, blood.Where is the most important part?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4woMuFZAx88

A despotic police state doesn't need direct provocation to kill. And yes, I have seen the bodies. I have seen the blood. In photos and video recordings from reporters showing the world what China did there. Do you really think the PRC would let the Chinese people know the full truth of what they did? You can't make a judgement call on a situation if the perpetrator controls the information you're allowed to see.

[Bombadil]

The protests in Tiananmen were entirely peaceful until the decision was made to go in with tanks and guns and clear them out, and in fact the protests were actually winding down from their peak. There weren't that many people still in the square.

Still, to be fair, it was 30 years ago, it's a notable event because it was the world waking up to China for the first time on a global media scale.

Denying thousands were killed is to deny the cry of their mothers as they try, and fail, to seek answers as to what happened to their children, not unlike those who deny mass shootings in the US as secret government operations.

Regardless of the future of China, the goal is to have a single language, a single thought, a single people, singular obeyance to the perceived ideals of the CCP, specially as guided by Xi Jinping. That is why the Uighers must be indoctrinated in camps to speak Mandarin, get rid of their religion and subsume to the state, it's why HK is such a particular thorn in their side, it's why Taiwan is an outrage, any barrier to a unified China under one party, one flag, one state is a personal affront to Xi Jinping himself.

[Novus America]

So probably nothing about how the People's Liberation Army massacred the people.

Massacred？If you use the word, it doesn't.If students are killed or injured,yes. In addition, there are videos and photos of students dragging the PLA out of armored vehicles and burning them or hanging them on street lamps.I don't know if you know this part.

I have heard this claimed (although did this also happen after the military started attacking?) yet if this is true why cover it up?
If the PRC is so innocent why do they so heavily restrict access to information regarding it?
If the truth would absolve them or justify them why not allow people to research it in detail, open up all documents and data they have, etc?

There is a concept in evidence law called the spoliation inference, that is if you destroy, alter or hide evidence it can be inferred that the evidence you attempted to cover up showed you in a negative light. The inference is that the party spoiling the evidence did so because the evidence was against what they are arguing.