The Future of China

[Infected Mushroom]

Dude, even the PRC Nationalist here admits the PRC is NOT all about trade or peace.
He openly acknowledges neoliberalism is bullshit.

Also bombing a place you claim to own is not peaceful. But really I am not sure if you are arguing in good faith or not, I do not think we can make progress as even if we offer arguments or evidence you just will repeat the same tired arguments ad nauseam.

Don't view it as debating with IM, there's no point there, rather use his blundering, fallacious and dogmatic faith as leaping points to provide greater context and merely state facts.

And yet I am the one who has been stating the facts and providing reputable sources

Whilst my opponents make unjustified comparisons and attacks on a benevolent country

[Novus America]

Dude, even the PRC Nationalist here admits the PRC is NOT all about trade or peace.
He openly acknowledges neoliberalism is bullshit.

Also bombing a place you claim to own is not peaceful. But really I am not sure if you are arguing in good faith or not, I do not think we can make progress as even if we offer arguments or evidence you just will repeat the same tired arguments ad nauseam.

China is currently pursuing a long term strategy of economic integration with Taiwan

Do not confuse the tactics of European empires (invasion by sea) with the Chinese way

Again we literally covered this. You do not even answer arguments, just repeat the same (completely discredited) points.
I could literally write a computer algorithm that could replace your “arguments” and nobody would know the difference.

[Infected Mushroom]

China is currently pursuing a long term strategy of economic integration with Taiwan

Do not confuse the tactics of European empires (invasion by sea) with the Chinese way

Again we literally covered this. You do not even answer arguments, just repeat the same points.
I could literally write a computer algorithm that could replace your “arguments” and nobody would know the difference.

Can you provide a source where China has already begun an invasion of Taiwan?

It hasn’t happened right?

Well then guess what? You can’t legitimately compare China to actual imperial powers that have launched invasions.

[Novus America]

Again we literally covered this. You do not even answer arguments, just repeat the same points.
I could literally write a computer algorithm that could replace your “arguments” and nobody would know the difference.

Can you provide a source where China has already begun an invasion of Taiwan?

It hasn’t happened right?

Well then guess what? You can’t legitimately compare China to actual imperial powers that have launched invasions.

You said absolutely nothing to my point, at all. This like arguing with a bad spambot.

[Stellar Colonies]

China does not act out like the US does because it isn't the current hegemon.

It would get a lot more backlash if it tried, so it does not.

[Bombadil]

Don't view it as debating with IM, there's no point there, rather use his blundering, fallacious and dogmatic faith as leaping points to provide greater context and merely state facts.

And yet I am the one who has been stating the facts and providing reputable sources

Whilst my opponents make unjustified comparisons and attacks on a benevolent country

Indeed, like your source that most HKers support the new law was 'Carrie Lam said so..'

Laughable, but again, it merely provides the opportunity to counter with reality and wider context.

As for Taiwan, Xi Jinping has clearly stated his intentions, it's only a matter of time because his recent actions have irrevocably pushed Taiwan away from China and onto the road to independence.

“Reunification is the historical trend and it is the right path,” Xi said. “Taiwan’s independence is a reversal of history and a dead-end road.”

All people in Taiwan must “clearly recognise that Taiwan’s independence would only bring profound disaster to Taiwan”, he said.

“We make no promise to renounce the use of force and reserve the option of taking all necessary means,”

[Infected Mushroom]

Can you provide a source where China has already begun an invasion of Taiwan?

It hasn’t happened right?

Well then guess what? You can’t legitimately compare China to actual imperial powers that have launched invasions.

You said absolutely nothing to my point, at all. This like arguing with a bad spambot.

The point is that speculation regarding the morality of “invading Taiwan” doesn’t do anything since it hasn’t happened

In the event that it does happen, it’s still a different consideration from an actual invasion between two countries because it would merely be an attempt by the UN recognized Chinese government to reclaim rightful territory from those who pose an active threat to it

In the meantime, the real world is one where China uses trade rather than war

[Infected Mushroom]

China does not act out like the US does because it isn't the current hegemon.

It would get a lot more backlash if it tried, so it does not.

It doesn’t act like the US because it’s moral system is different

[Bombadil]

You said absolutely nothing to my point, at all. This like arguing with a bad spambot.

The point is that speculation regarding the morality of “invading Taiwan” doesn’t do anything since it hasn’t happened

In the event that it does happen, it’s still a different consideration from an actual invasion between two countries because it would merely be an attempt by the UN recognized Chinese government to reclaim rightful territory from those who pose an active threat to it

In the meantime, the real world is one where China uses trade rather than war

Oh wow.. suddenly the UN has legitimacy when just a few pages ago you claimed a UN recognised treaty had no legitimacy. Just another example of how you distort everything to fit your ideology rather than come to conclusions based on reality.

[Novus America]

You said absolutely nothing to my point, at all. This like arguing with a bad spambot.

The point is that speculation regarding the morality of “invading Taiwan” doesn’t do anything since it hasn’t happened

In the event that it does happen, it’s still a different consideration from an actual invasion between two countries because it would merely be an attempt by the UN recognized Chinese government to reclaim rightful territory from those who pose an active threat to it

The point is a repetition of discredited arguments? So why should I bother? Vietnam, India, Taiwan crisis in the 50s say hi. Plus incursions in the SCS. Anyways this stil discredits your ppijt they only want “trade and peace” regardless of the BS justification.

Oh and what Bombadil said. I am not even going to bother replying after this.

[Novus America]

China does not act out like the US does because it isn't the current hegemon.

It would get a lot more backlash if it tried, so it does not.

It doesn’t act like the US because it’s moral system is different

Indeed. It has none beyond might makes right.

[Slavakino]

Chinese Navy are moving near Taiwan, an invasion is inevitable. I swear to god someone just declare war on the chinese

[Tuthina]

China does not act out like the US does because it isn't the current hegemon.

It would get a lot more backlash if it tried, so it does not.

It doesn’t act like the US because it’s moral system is different

Well, it definitely has a different idea about morality, just not sure it's one that many would enjoy being ruled by. For one, I don't feel like being region-locked for new games that the government might consider harmful to me.

Yes, before anyone asked, I'm against all governments that pull that kind of stuff. Just that PRC's regulations on video games are (theoretically) strict enough that it would put the Australian counterpart to shame.

[Bombadil]

Meanwhile there's other means by which China is suppressing free speech across the world, including sneaky actions such as this..

“YouTube is automatically deleting comments that contain certain Chinese-language phrases related to criticism of the country’s ruling Communist Party (CCP). The company confirmed to The Verge this was happening in error and that it was looking into the issue.

This appears to be an error in our enforcement systems and we are investigating,” said a YouTube spokesperson. The company did not elaborate on how or why this error came to be, but said it was not the result of any change in its moderation policy.

But if the deletions are the result of a simple mistake, then it’s one that’s gone unnoticed for six months. The Verge found evidence that comments were being deleted as early as October 2019, when the issue was raised on YouTube’s official help pages and multiple users confirmed that they had experienced the same problem.

Comments left under videos or in live streams that contain the words “共匪” (“communist bandit”) or “五毛” (“50-cent party”) are automatically deleted in around 15 seconds, though their English language translations and Romanized Pinyin equivalents are not.

The term “共匪” is an insult that dates back to China’s Nationalist government, while “五毛,” (or “wu mao”) is a derogatory slang term for internet users paid to direct online discussion away from criticism of the CCP. The name comes from claims that such commenters are paid 50 Chinese cents per post.

Link

Who knows how many global companies have people quietly working for the CCP.

[Infected Mushroom]

And yet I am the one who has been stating the facts and providing reputable sources

Whilst my opponents make unjustified comparisons and attacks on a benevolent country

Indeed, like your source that most HKers support the new law was 'Carrie Lam said so..'

Laughable, but again, it merely provides the opportunity to counter with reality and wider context.

As for Taiwan, Xi Jinping has clearly stated his intentions, it's only a matter of time because his recent actions have irrevocably pushed Taiwan away from China and onto the road to independence.

“Reunification is the historical trend and it is the right path,” Xi said. “Taiwan’s independence is a reversal of history and a dead-end road.”

All people in Taiwan must “clearly recognise that Taiwan’s independence would only bring profound disaster to Taiwan”, he said.

“We make no promise to renounce the use of force and reserve the option of taking all necessary means,”

Did I ever say China has thrown away the use of force option?

No I have not.

You may want to go back a few posts and read what I did say. You act like this is a counter argument while in actuality, it provides context. It was never stated nor asserted that the use of force isn’t a reserved option, just that it’s not the default one. If you look at the world now... you can see that economic tools are being used, but not the military ones yet.

Also, if a government source has stated that there is “popular support for x” I’m going to believe them as a reliable source (since they have actual credentials) over other unsubstantiated assertions by posters. I think that’s fair, unless you can claim to have more knowledge and/ or better and more credible sources to back up claims.

[Novus America]

Meanwhile there's other means by which China is suppressing free speech across the world, including sneaky actions such as this..

“YouTube is automatically deleting comments that contain certain Chinese-language phrases related to criticism of the country’s ruling Communist Party (CCP). The company confirmed to The Verge this was happening in error and that it was looking into the issue.

This appears to be an error in our enforcement systems and we are investigating,” said a YouTube spokesperson. The company did not elaborate on how or why this error came to be, but said it was not the result of any change in its moderation policy.

But if the deletions are the result of a simple mistake, then it’s one that’s gone unnoticed for six months. The Verge found evidence that comments were being deleted as early as October 2019, when the issue was raised on YouTube’s official help pages and multiple users confirmed that they had experienced the same problem.

Comments left under videos or in live streams that contain the words “共匪” (“communist bandit”) or “五毛” (“50-cent party”) are automatically deleted in around 15 seconds, though their English language translations and Romanized Pinyin equivalents are not.

The term “共匪” is an insult that dates back to China’s Nationalist government, while “五毛,” (or “wu mao”) is a derogatory slang term for internet users paid to direct online discussion away from criticism of the CCP. The name comes from claims that such commenters are paid 50 Chinese cents per post.

Link

Who knows how many global companies have people quietly working for the CCP.

Their most powerful weapon against us is sadly our own companies. Time to hold the Fifth Columnists to account for their actions.

[Infected Mushroom]

It doesn’t act like the US because it’s moral system is different

Indeed. It has none beyond might makes right.

If that is the case, then China would not have tried to mediate in Syria and Iran. It would have sided with the more powerful western governments in their attempts to influence Middle Eastern politics.

[Tuthina]

Indeed, like your source that most HKers support the new law was 'Carrie Lam said so..'

Laughable, but again, it merely provides the opportunity to counter with reality and wider context.

As for Taiwan, Xi Jinping has clearly stated his intentions, it's only a matter of time because his recent actions have irrevocably pushed Taiwan away from China and onto the road to independence.

“Reunification is the historical trend and it is the right path,” Xi said. “Taiwan’s independence is a reversal of history and a dead-end road.”

All people in Taiwan must “clearly recognise that Taiwan’s independence would only bring profound disaster to Taiwan”, he said.

“We make no promise to renounce the use of force and reserve the option of taking all necessary means,”

Did I ever say China has thrown away the use of force option?

No I have not.

You may want to go back a few posts and read what I did say. You act like this is a counter argument while in actuality, it provides context. It was never stated nor asserted that the use of force isn’t a reserved option, just that it’s not the default one. If you look at the world now... you can see that economic tools are being used, but not the military ones yet.

Also, if a government source has stated that there is “popular support for x” I’m going to believe them as a reliable source (since they have actual credentials) over other unsubstantiated assertions by posters. I think that’s fair, unless you can claim to have more knowledge and/ or better and more credible sources to back up claims.

Well, polls and survey results would help, for one. I don't think the government has been doing any survey, so unless they have an army of telepathy hiding in government buildings, I'm inclined to think that it doesn't have any relevant credentials in that regard.

[Novus America]

Indeed. It has none beyond might makes right.

If that is the case, then China would not have tried to mediate in Syria and Iran. It would have sided with the more powerful western governments in their attempts to influence Middle Eastern politics.

Complete non sequitur. But again I am done with this.
I can at least debate SIC. I disagree with him but I see where he is coming from.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Chinese Navy are moving near Taiwan, an invasion is inevitable. I swear to god someone just declare war on the chinese

PLA warships are approaching Taiwan as long as they leave the port. They are far away from Taiwan only when they cross Taiwan to the Pacific Ocean or the Indian Ocean.

[Infected Mushroom]

Meanwhile there's other means by which China is suppressing free speech across the world, including sneaky actions such as this..

“YouTube is automatically deleting comments that contain certain Chinese-language phrases related to criticism of the country’s ruling Communist Party (CCP). The company confirmed to The Verge this was happening in error and that it was looking into the issue.

This appears to be an error in our enforcement systems and we are investigating,” said a YouTube spokesperson. The company did not elaborate on how or why this error came to be, but said it was not the result of any change in its moderation policy.

But if the deletions are the result of a simple mistake, then it’s one that’s gone unnoticed for six months. The Verge found evidence that comments were being deleted as early as October 2019, when the issue was raised on YouTube’s official help pages and multiple users confirmed that they had experienced the same problem.

Comments left under videos or in live streams that contain the words “共匪” (“communist bandit”) or “五毛” (“50-cent party”) are automatically deleted in around 15 seconds, though their English language translations and Romanized Pinyin equivalents are not.

The term “共匪” is an insult that dates back to China’s Nationalist government, while “五毛,” (or “wu mao”) is a derogatory slang term for internet users paid to direct online discussion away from criticism of the CCP. The name comes from claims that such commenters are paid 50 Chinese cents per post.

Link

Who knows how many global companies have people quietly working for the CCP.

Their most powerful weapon against us is sadly our own companies. Time to hold the Fifth Columnists to account for their actions.

It’s not a weapon. Chinese trade benefits the Western consumer. It helps everyone.

If the Chinese want to encourage some censoring, it does so in a responsible and limited capacity to protect its national interests. Now let’s be honest here... there’s close to zero public good ( or any good at all) in allowing provocative and insulting anti-Chinese comments on YouTube or anywhere else. That kind of censorship is good policy with respect to harm prevention.

[Tuthina]

If that is the case, then China would not have tried to mediate in Syria and Iran. It would have sided with the more powerful western governments in their attempts to influence Middle Eastern politics.

Complete non sequitur. But again I am done with this.
I can at least debate SIC. I disagree with him but I see where he is coming from.

You know it's bad when SIC's occasionally indecipherable English is more coherent than IM despite having better grammar.

[Infected Mushroom]

Did I ever say China has thrown away the use of force option?

No I have not.

You may want to go back a few posts and read what I did say. You act like this is a counter argument while in actuality, it provides context. It was never stated nor asserted that the use of force isn’t a reserved option, just that it’s not the default one. If you look at the world now... you can see that economic tools are being used, but not the military ones yet.

Also, if a government source has stated that there is “popular support for x” I’m going to believe them as a reliable source (since they have actual credentials) over other unsubstantiated assertions by posters. I think that’s fair, unless you can claim to have more knowledge and/ or better and more credible sources to back up claims.

Well, polls and survey results would help, for one. I don't think the government has been doing any survey, so unless they have an army of telepathy hiding in government buildings, I'm inclined to think that it doesn't have any relevant credentials in that regard.

I should hope that you’re aware that the HK SAR government , like any other government, has access to panels and departments of qualified experts and advisors when making conclusions and statements.

When the source says “Carrie Lam says X” it means she’s doing so as a representative of that government, with that access to that information and expertise.

It’s not just Lam going... “hmmm what do I as one person think? Okay I will say that.”

Oh no

[Stellar Colonies]

Their most powerful weapon against us is sadly our own companies. Time to hold the Fifth Columnists to account for their actions.

It’s not a weapon. Chinese trade benefits the Western consumer. It helps everyone.

If the Chinese want to encourage some censoring, it does so in a responsible and limited capacity to protect its national interests. Now let’s be honest here... there’s close to zero public good ( or any good at all) in allowing provocative and insulting anti-Chinese comments on YouTube or anywhere else. That kind of censorship is good policy with respect to harm prevention.

What do you mean by "anti-Chinese"?

Racism or merely anti-PRC?

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Meanwhile there's other means by which China is suppressing free speech across the world, including sneaky actions such as this..

“YouTube is automatically deleting comments that contain certain Chinese-language phrases related to criticism of the country’s ruling Communist Party (CCP). The company confirmed to The Verge this was happening in error and that it was looking into the issue.

This appears to be an error in our enforcement systems and we are investigating,” said a YouTube spokesperson. The company did not elaborate on how or why this error came to be, but said it was not the result of any change in its moderation policy.

But if the deletions are the result of a simple mistake, then it’s one that’s gone unnoticed for six months. The Verge found evidence that comments were being deleted as early as October 2019, when the issue was raised on YouTube’s official help pages and multiple users confirmed that they had experienced the same problem.

Comments left under videos or in live streams that contain the words “共匪” (“communist bandit”) or “五毛” (“50-cent party”) are automatically deleted in around 15 seconds, though their English language translations and Romanized Pinyin equivalents are not.

The term “共匪” is an insult that dates back to China’s Nationalist government, while “五毛,” (or “wu mao”) is a derogatory slang term for internet users paid to direct online discussion away from criticism of the CCP. The name comes from claims that such commenters are paid 50 Chinese cents per post.

Link

Who knows how many global companies have people quietly working for the CCP.

Dammit ,If CCP can really control youtube, they will let youtube and Google enter the Chinese market.This is the problem of machine learning.