The Future of China

[Tuthina]

By the same inane logic, most HKer users here have more experience about living in Hong Kong and being in the midst of protests than you, so it's only logical that others should be more inclined to take our words over yours, but that doesn't stop you from declaring that you're leaving the Hong Kong thread 5 times and returning every single time, does it?

I didn’t quote them though. I quoted from official government statements, which don’t come out until they’ve consulted with their experts.

I mean you, not the one you're quoting. Seriously, if you don't bother to read what I'm posting, then don't quote me in the first place.

[Genivaria]

India’s Response to China, 2 BJP MPs Attend Taiwan President’s Swearing-in

https://www.tibetanjournal.com/indias-r ... s8MB0WNDvY

[Phoenicaea]

well, the european union has not a stance against regimes (it has got a matter within itself, its high representative lies without substantial command).

nevertheless, it’s utterly false european union substain chinese party. the american president is the first comrade of chinese regime instead.

european union is not so inept, you people not a spike in undertanding.

[Dahyan]

It doesn't. And that would be an issue if it happened.

It openly admits to having “re-education camps” for Muslims.
You can not argue they exist, as the PRC government openly admits they do.

The question is not their existence, the PRC simply claims they are “justified” to “stop terrorism”.
You can not deny they exist, rather supporting the PRC you must argue that the camps are good, and Muslims deserve them. That is the argument the PRC and it’s supporters make.
Even here.

Correction: the PRC admits prisons exist for Wahhabi extremists. Not for Muslims in general

[-Astoria]

Correction: the PRC admits prisons exist for Wahhabi extremists. Not for Muslims in general

Correction: that is blatantly false. ^{[1] [2]}

[Thermodolia]

India’s Response to China, 2 BJP MPs Attend Taiwan President’s Swearing-in

https://www.tibetanjournal.com/indias-r ... s8MB0WNDvY

That’s big news. And a major shift in foreign policy

[Thermodolia]

Representative Scott Perry introduces bill to recognize the “Tibet Autonomous Region as a separate, independent country”

https://tibet.net/representative-scott- ... mE07dNIAkE

Oh fuck yes. My wet dream is coming true

[Dahyan]

India’s Response to China, 2 BJP MPs Attend Taiwan President’s Swearing-in

https://www.tibetanjournal.com/indias-r ... s8MB0WNDvY

Time for China to go all-out on the secession of Kashmir then.

[Dogmeat]

well, the european union has not a stance against regimes (it has got a matter within itself, its high representative lies without substantial command).

nevertheless, it’s utterly false european union substain chinese party. the american president is the first comrade of chinese regime instead.

european union is not so inept, you people not a spike in undertanding.

...

...

You feeling okay?

[Dahyan]

Correction: the PRC admits prisons exist for Wahhabi extremists. Not for Muslims in general

Correction: that is blatantly false. ^{[1] [2]}

Are you telling me the PRC openly admits to imprisoning people solely because they are Muslims? Because that is the subject we were discussing.

[Tuthina]

India’s Response to China, 2 BJP MPs Attend Taiwan President’s Swearing-in

https://www.tibetanjournal.com/indias-r ... s8MB0WNDvY

Time for China to go all-out on the secession of Kashmir then.

I concur - the more PRC antagonise others, the more it'll be pushed back.

[Dahyan]

Time for China to go all-out on the secession of Kashmir then.

I concur - the more PRC antagonise others, the more it'll be pushed back.

Thing is, China will get flak from the West no matter what. Doesn't matter whether or not they do anything. May as well push back.

[Thermodolia]

well, the european union has not a stance against regimes (it has got a matter within itself, its high representative lies without substantial command).

nevertheless, it’s utterly false european union substain chinese party. the american president is the first comrade of chinese regime instead.

european union is not so inept, you people not a spike in undertanding.

...

...

You feeling okay?

He’s not a native speaker of English.

[-Astoria]

Are you telling me the PRC openly admits to imprisoning people solely because they are Muslims? Because that is the subject we were discussing.

for Wahhabi extremists. Not for Muslims in general

[Tuthina]

I concur - the more PRC antagonise others, the more it'll be pushed back.

Thing is, China will get flak from the West no matter what. Doesn't matter whether or not they do anything. May as well push back.

Well, as I said, I agree with you on what PRC should do, even if our reasons are probably quite different.

[Novus America]

I concur - the more PRC antagonise others, the more it'll be pushed back.

Thing is, China will get flak from the West no matter what. Doesn't matter whether or not they do anything. May as well push back.

Your logic: “I have been accused of murder, so I might as well murder as many people as possible!”
It is a logic completely devoid of morality and exists of pure spite.
Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Also it is false, actually the West has been very favorable towards and accommodating of the PRC.
Hence why we made the PRC source of so many of our products while ignoring its crimes.

The West is reactionary. It reacts. The less the PRC pushes the less the West reacts. The more the PRC pushes the more the West reacts.

So I actually agree I kind of want the PRC to push more. Because it will ensure we unite against it.
A PRC that pretends to be friendly to the West is actually far MORE dangerous than an openly hostile PRC, whose hostility will hopefully be its downfall.

[Novus America]

It openly admits to having “re-education camps” for Muslims.
You can not argue they exist, as the PRC government openly admits they do.

The question is not their existence, the PRC simply claims they are “justified” to “stop terrorism”.
You can not deny they exist, rather supporting the PRC you must argue that the camps are good, and Muslims deserve them. That is the argument the PRC and it’s supporters make.
Even here.

Correction: the PRC admits prisons exist for Wahhabi extremists. Not for Muslims in general

And simply being a devout Muslim can make one “a Wahhabi extremist“ because there is no due process and no evidence required. Ironically you would possibly be tossed into the prison too.
You opposition to Saudi Arabia (a friend of the PRC) and its bombing of Yemen would probably be enough to get you tossed into a camp and your organs sold to a rich Saudi if you were unlucky.

Guess where the Saudi strategic missile force gets all its missiles from?
The PRC of course.

[Rusozak]

Thing is, China will get flak from the West no matter what. Doesn't matter whether or not they do anything. May as well push back.

Your logic: “I have been accused of murder, so I might as well murder as many people as possible!”
It is a logic completely devoid of morality and exists of pure spite.
Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Also it is false, actually the West has been very favorable towards and accommodating of the PRC.
Hence why we made the PRC source of so many of our products while ignoring its crimes.

The West is reactionary. It reacts. The less the PRC pushes the less the West reacts. The more the PRC pushes the more the West reacts.

So I actually agree I kind of want the PRC to push more. Because it will ensure we unite against it.
A PRC that pretends to be friendly to the West is actually far MORE dangerous than an openly hostile PRC, whose hostility will hopefully be its downfall.

An apologist driven by ideology will always warp reality and morals to suit the end of perpetuating the ideals. Unfortunately, that is exactly how the PRC operates. Whether the leaders of the CCP know they're full of shit or actually believe what they drill into the heads of the masses, the bottom line is anyone who really wants to believe they are the good guys will do whatever it takes, make whatever mental gymnastics are necessary to make it appear that way.

[Dahyan]

Are you telling me the PRC openly admits to imprisoning people solely because they are Muslims? Because that is the subject we were discussing.

for Wahhabi extremists. Not for Muslims in general

Yes. I was merely stating that the PRC reports that the camps exist, but only for Wahhabi extremists and terrorists. What exactly is unclear about it?

I wasn't even making a comment on what I personally believe to be true.

[Dahyan]

Thing is, China will get flak from the West no matter what. Doesn't matter whether or not they do anything. May as well push back.

Your logic: “I have been accused of murder, so I might as well murder as many people as possible!”
It is a logic completely devoid of morality and exists of pure spite.
Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Also it is false, actually the West has been very favorable towards and accommodating of the PRC.
Hence why we made the PRC source of so many of our products while ignoring its crimes.

The West is reactionary. It reacts. The less the PRC pushes the less the West reacts. The more the PRC pushes the more the West reacts.

So I actually agree I kind of want the PRC to push more. Because it will ensure we unite against it.
A PRC that pretends to be friendly to the West is actually far MORE dangerous than an openly hostile PRC, whose hostility will hopefully be its downfall.

Erm. No. The reason why the West has made China the source of much of its production is because it's cheap. It has absolutely nothing to do with being "favourable to China". It's cold hard capitalist logic.

China played into that logic, and ended up being the world's largest producer for much of the global economy. That has nothing to do with the West liking Beijing, and everything with the fact that China has basically used the greed of the West against itself.

[Dahyan]

Your logic: “I have been accused of murder, so I might as well murder as many people as possible!”
It is a logic completely devoid of morality and exists of pure spite.
Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Also it is false, actually the West has been very favorable towards and accommodating of the PRC.
Hence why we made the PRC source of so many of our products while ignoring its crimes.

The West is reactionary. It reacts. The less the PRC pushes the less the West reacts. The more the PRC pushes the more the West reacts.

So I actually agree I kind of want the PRC to push more. Because it will ensure we unite against it.
A PRC that pretends to be friendly to the West is actually far MORE dangerous than an openly hostile PRC, whose hostility will hopefully be its downfall.

An apologist driven by ideology will always warp reality and morals to suit the end of perpetuating the ideals. Unfortunately, that is exactly how the PRC operates. Whether the leaders of the CCP know they're full of shit or actually believe what they drill into the heads of the masses, the bottom line is anyone who really wants to believe they are the good guys will do whatever it takes, make whatever mental gymnastics are necessary to make it appear that way.

That's actually a perfect description of the US.

[Dahyan]

Correction: the PRC admits prisons exist for Wahhabi extremists. Not for Muslims in general

And simply being a devout Muslim can make one “a Wahhabi extremist“ because there is no due process and no evidence required. Ironically you would possibly be tossed into the prison too.
You opposition to Saudi Arabia (a friend of the PRC) and its bombing of Yemen would probably be enough to get you tossed into a camp and your organs sold to a rich Saudi if you were unlucky.

Guess where the Saudi strategic missile force gets all its missiles from?
The PRC of course.

Highly unlikely. China has few ideological friends, since it's known for conducting business with pretty much everyone who is willing. Their position on the world stage has been extremely neutral for the past 30+ years.

I personally am not actually fond of such extreme realpolitik without ideological basis. Not do I like the market socialist approach in general that China is known for.

But be that as it may, when the choice is between the PRC or some torn-up, balkanised fantasy that some others around here seem to have, my choice is easily made. Especially since the fall of China can only ever benefit the major imperialist powers that are already in a hegemonic position.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

Yes. I was merely stating that the PRC reports that the camps exist, but only for Wahhabi extremists and terrorists. What exactly is unclear about it?

I wasn't even making a comment on what I personally believe to be true.

Yeah, but to China, anyone deemed just too different from Chinese society is considered a threat. This lets them admit any people they want into the prison camps. Apparently, they force Muslims in the area to keep alcohol and pig meat, which I'm pretty sure you know is haram for them. There are quite a few people (the estimates range from tens of thousands to millions, iirc.) detained in here, and not all of them can possibly be extremists. These camps have been cited by credible news sources too. Simply no denying this one.

Your logic: “I have been accused of murder, so I might as well murder as many people as possible!”
It is a logic completely devoid of morality and exists of pure spite.
Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Also it is false, actually the West has been very favorable towards and accommodating of the PRC.
Hence why we made the PRC source of so many of our products while ignoring its crimes.

The West is reactionary. It reacts. The less the PRC pushes the less the West reacts. The more the PRC pushes the more the West reacts.

So I actually agree I kind of want the PRC to push more. Because it will ensure we unite against it.
A PRC that pretends to be friendly to the West is actually far MORE dangerous than an openly hostile PRC, whose hostility will hopefully be its downfall.

Erm. No. The reason why the West has made China the source of much of its production is because it's cheap. It has absolutely nothing to do with being "favourable to China". It's cold hard capitalist logic.

China played into that logic, and ended up being the world's largest producer for much of the global economy. That has nothing to do with the West liking Beijing, and everything with the fact that China has basically used the greed of the West against itself.

As repeated many times in this thread, even cheaper and friendlier options exist. Africa, Vietnam and India are three examples.

[Novus America]

Your logic: “I have been accused of murder, so I might as well murder as many people as possible!”
It is a logic completely devoid of morality and exists of pure spite.
Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Also it is false, actually the West has been very favorable towards and accommodating of the PRC.
Hence why we made the PRC source of so many of our products while ignoring its crimes.

The West is reactionary. It reacts. The less the PRC pushes the less the West reacts. The more the PRC pushes the more the West reacts.

So I actually agree I kind of want the PRC to push more. Because it will ensure we unite against it.
A PRC that pretends to be friendly to the West is actually far MORE dangerous than an openly hostile PRC, whose hostility will hopefully be its downfall.

Erm. No. The reason why the West has made China the source of much of its production is because it's cheap. It has absolutely nothing to do with being "favourable to China". It's cold hard capitalist logic.

China played into that logic, and ended up being the world's largest producer for much of the global economy. That has nothing to do with the West liking Beijing, and everything with the fact that China has basically used the greed of the West against itself.

Sure those in the west who like it, largely do so because of amoral greed.
But see, they can only argue the “cheap” is good, if the PRC is not a threat.
If it is their whole logic comes crashing down (destroying you national defense is quite a cost no?).

Sure the PRC exploited western greed, but only by also pretending to be friendly.
Their ability to exploit said greed becomes less potent the more hostile they act.

Already Western countries are saying the greed was a bad idea and starting to restrict trade with the PRC. The more hostile the PRC becomes, the less the West buys from the PRC, thus undermining the source of the PRC’s power!

It is beautifully ironic. When the people who oppose you actually think your strategy is good because it weakens you, you might want to rethink the strategy.

[Novus America]

And simply being a devout Muslim can make one “a Wahhabi extremist“ because there is no due process and no evidence required. Ironically you would possibly be tossed into the prison too.
You opposition to Saudi Arabia (a friend of the PRC) and its bombing of Yemen would probably be enough to get you tossed into a camp and your organs sold to a rich Saudi if you were unlucky.

Guess where the Saudi strategic missile force gets all its missiles from?
The PRC of course.

Highly unlikely. China has few ideological friends, since it's known for conducting business with pretty much everyone who is willing. Their position on the world stage has been extremely neutral for the past 30+ years.

I personally am not actually fond of such extreme realpolitik without ideological basis. Not do I like the market socialist approach in general that China is known for.

But be that as it may, when the choice is between the PRC or some torn-up, balkanised fantasy that some others around here seem to have, my choice is easily made. Especially since the fall of China can only ever benefit the major imperialist powers that are already in a hegemonic position.

Sure they have few ideological friends but they have ideological enemies.
You would still get tossed in prison for disagreeing with their strategic aims.

Okay so at least you admit the PRC is not good. Like I said it gladly sells the Saudis weapons to use in Yemen which alone should be enough to push you away.
But it is an imperialist power!

And when did I argue for some Balkanized fantasy? I support containment. NOT going Iraq on it or some such nonsense.