The Future of China

[Bombadil]

Following the storm blackout of Beijing last Thursday following their discussion of the HK issue, today Beijing experienced a 4.4 earthquake.

A 4.4-magnitude earthquake has struck near China‘s capital city of Beijing, Chinese media reported.

Beijing residents reported feeling the tremors following the quake in Langfang City, in Hebei province.

4 is the symbol for death, si and si sounding the same though different tones. I hope the CCP take these signs from the heavens before they lose their mandate.

Or at least I hope they don't..

Today's NPC agenda..

Tuesday, May 26

9 a.m.: Delegates deliberate the NPCSC’s work report in small groups
3 p.m.: Delegates deliberate a revised version of the draft Civil Code, a revised version of the draft Hong Kong Decision, the SPC’s work report, and the SPP’s work report in small groups

Are you a fool?You're beginning to believe in this superstition

Not really, but plenty people do - it doesn't matter if signs mean anything, just the meaning people give to them.

[Infected Mushroom]

Carrie Lam remains in office because she has remained loyal to her government. This is what the Chinese reward, loyalty.

IM, the CCP is breaking the law in this imposition of Article 23. It breaks international UN recognised treaty that China signed up to. Why are we giving them a pass on breaking the law here? They are not supposed to meddle in HK until 2047, the deal was that HK remains free while China has the opportunity to open up and reform into a democracy as promised in their own 1982 constitution.

Xi Jinping has gone the opposite way and is tearing up international law.

Take it up with them.

The authority of the Basic Law flows down from the NPC of China. So there’s nothing illegal about altering its content if it comes from above. There’s a mechanism in place to legislate changes into the annex of the Basic Law, it was always there.

As for treaties between China and the British Empire, in my view these are null and void because Britain originally acquired Hong Kong through territorial theft from the Chinese.

International law cannot apply to this case because Hong Kong is a part of China, this is a question of national, not international law.

[Bombadil]

IM, the CCP is breaking the law in this imposition of Article 23. It breaks international UN recognised treaty that China signed up to. Why are we giving them a pass on breaking the law here? They are not supposed to meddle in HK until 2047, the deal was that HK remains free while China has the opportunity to open up and reform into a democracy as promised in their own 1982 constitution.

Xi Jinping has gone the opposite way and is tearing up international law.

Take it up with them.

The authority of the Basic Law flows down from the NPC of China. So there’s nothing illegal about altering its content if it comes from above. There’s a mechanism in place to legislate changes into the annex of the Basic Law, it was always there.

As for treaties between China and the British Empire, in my view these are null and void because Britain originally acquired Hong Kong through territorial theft from the Chinese.

International law cannot apply to this case because Hong Kong is a part of China, this is a question of national, not international law.

Then China shouldn't have signed it and submitted it to the UN, they're breaking international law. Pretty clear you don't really care for Law & Order, not when it doesn't suit you.

Anyway, to add to Xi Jinping's list of failures he has now lost the EU as well.

“We need a more robust strategy for China, which also requires better relations with the rest of democratic Asia,” he added.

The EU has been reluctant to side with Donald Trump’s confrontational stance towards China, but Beijing’s assault on the independence of Hong Kong, its growing willingness to side with Europe’s populists and its refusal to open its markets has led to a change of heart, according to analysts.

[Genivaria]

Representative Scott Perry introduces bill to recognize the “Tibet Autonomous Region as a separate, independent country”

https://tibet.net/representative-scott- ... mE07dNIAkE

[Infected Mushroom]

The authority of the Basic Law flows down from the NPC of China. So there’s nothing illegal about altering its content if it comes from above. There’s a mechanism in place to legislate changes into the annex of the Basic Law, it was always there.

As for treaties between China and the British Empire, in my view these are null and void because Britain originally acquired Hong Kong through territorial theft from the Chinese.

International law cannot apply to this case because Hong Kong is a part of China, this is a question of national, not international law.

Then China shouldn't have signed it and submitted it to the UN, they're breaking international law. Pretty clear you don't really care for Law & Order, not when it doesn't suit you.

It’s not really relevant.

Ultimately, Hong Kong is Chinese territory, not British territory. It’s China’s right to deal with national security.

I’d like to link this article where Carrie Lam addresses some concerns:

Chief Executive Carrie Lam on Tuesday strongly condemned foreign politicians who have raised concerns about the national security legislation Beijing is drawing up for the SAR, saying the positive response to the move from the Hong Kong public "flies in the face" of the untrue and groundless statements made by overseas critics.

Before heading into this week's Executive Council meeting, Lam conceded that various sectors of society have expressed worries about the national security legislation planned, but said many people in Hong Kong support and agree with the move.

The CE said that national security is a matter for the central authorities in every country and critics who say Beijing's plan for Hong Kong undermines the SAR government and the Legislative Council have no regard to the constitutional relationship between the territory and the central government.

Lam dismissed a claim made by the Hong Kong Bar Association and others that the National People's Congress Standing Committee has no power to impose the legislation, saying promulgating the law will not run contrary to the Basic Law and will be strictly in accordance with the Chinese Constitution.

"No country would allow an important matter like national security to be flawed in any way. Hong Kong has not been able to legislate locally in 23 years and in the foreseeable future it would be difficult for us to go for local legislation. That is why the NPC is taking responsible action to legislate," Lam said.

She added that such an arrangement is the general practice overseas and other countries have no right to interfere in China's plans.

Lam said another "totally groundless" claim is that the national security legislation will undermine Hong Kong's position as an international financial centre.

Noting that the stock market has been bouncing back since a plunge on Friday, she said other countries haven't lost their status as leading financial centres just because they have national security laws, so why should Hong Kong, being as it is an inalienable part of China.

She added that business leaders have told her they want a stable environment where it is safe to bring their families and the new law will actually reinforce Hong Kong's status as a global financial hub.

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/ ... 200526.htm

Lam points out many important facts:

1. There is public support for the law
2. The economy is coming back (stock market panics are not justified)
3. China has the right to legislate on national security on its own soil
4. The allegation that Chinese agents will swoop down and make tons of people disappear exists in the realm of conspiracy theories

I think this is a very persuasive argument, especially number 3

[Bombadil]

Representative Scott Perry introduces bill to recognize the “Tibet Autonomous Region as a separate, independent country”

https://tibet.net/representative-scott- ... mE07dNIAkE

Lol.. never going to happen, should pick Taiwan, it's technically independent and easier to defend from China, it would also be a massive slap in the face to Xi Jinping and the CCP.

[Bombadil]

Lam points out many important facts:

1. There is public support for the law

No there isn't, please provide any cites to back up this lie.

2. The economy is coming back (stock market panics are not justified)

Because China pumps in money to maintain its piggy bank, why did they go to such pains to warn finance companies to blame the recent 5.6% drop on the protests when it was very clearly due to the new law.

3. China has the right to legislate on national security on its own soil

Not in HK, laws must be passed through Legco not through the NPC.

4. The allegation that Chinese agents will swoop down and make tons of people disappear exists in the realm of conspiracy theories

Except it's already occurred in the case of booksellers and businessmen so.. no, not a conspiracy theory.

I think this is a very persuasive argument, especially number 3

Carrie Lam telling you 2+2=5 would be, in your eyes, a very persuasive argument so..

[Infected Mushroom]

Lam points out many important facts:

1. There is public support for the law

No there isn't, please provide any cites to back up this lie.

2. The economy is coming back (stock market panics are not justified)

Because China pumps in money to maintain its piggy bank, why did they go to such pains to warn finance companies to blame the recent 5.6% drop on the protests when it was very clearly due to the new law.

3. China has the right to legislate on national security on its own soil

Not in HK, laws must be passed through Legco not through the NPC.

4. The allegation that Chinese agents will swoop down and make tons of people disappear exists in the realm of conspiracy theories

Except it's already occurred in the case of booksellers and businessmen so.. no, not a conspiracy theory.

I think this is a very persuasive argument, especially number 3

Carrie Lam telling you 2+2=5 would be, in your eyes, a very persuasive argument so..

In the above link:

Chief Executive Carrie Lam on Tuesday strongly condemned foreign politicians who have raised concerns about the national security legislation Beijing is drawing up for the SAR, saying the positive response to the move from the Hong Kong public "flies in the face" of the untrue and groundless statements made by overseas critics.

The positive response from the public.

[Novus America]

Representative Scott Perry introduces bill to recognize the “Tibet Autonomous Region as a separate, independent country”

https://tibet.net/representative-scott- ... mE07dNIAkE

Lol.. never going to happen, should pick Taiwan, it's technically independent and easier to defend from China, it would also be a massive slap in the face to Xi Jinping and the CCP.

Although I agree recognizing Taiwan again makes more sense we could do both. I admit the Tibet thing is just trolling but it would be fine to watch Xi throw a tantrum over it.

[Tuthina]

In the above link:

Chief Executive Carrie Lam on Tuesday strongly condemned foreign politicians who have raised concerns about the national security legislation Beijing is drawing up for the SAR, saying the positive response to the move from the Hong Kong public "flies in the face" of the untrue and groundless statements made by overseas critics.

The positive response from the public.

Public opinion with Chinese characteristics: The people are said to be supporting it because the leader says so.

[Infected Mushroom]

Lol.. never going to happen, should pick Taiwan, it's technically independent and easier to defend from China, it would also be a massive slap in the face to Xi Jinping and the CCP.

Although I agree recognizing Taiwan again makes more sense we could do both. I admit the Tibet thing is just trolling but it would be fine to watch Xi throw a tantrum over it.

It’s a good thing more practical people run western governments.

[Novus America]

It's not exactly a dictatorship in Singapore, it's a family legacy similar to how India voted in the Congress Party for decades despite functioning democracy.

HK government could do a lot, they just have fuck all vision. Funnily enough someone noted that the problem is HK never fought and won its freedom, unlike many other nations. Hence they don't have that belief in building their future. HK government is just a civil service for Beijing now.

I mean.. take a look at the harbour front, Singapore has an idea how to develop theirs, HK has none. I built the interim website for the ICC and there were lovely drawings of parks and gardens and etc., 15 years later and it's still a fucking construction site.

And the CCP works hand in hand with the 'capitalists', because HK is their piggy bank, that's why they appoint them to CE positions though with Carrie Lam they clearly don't care for the CE position anymore as anything even remotely legitimate.. so hand it to a real civil servant to solely obey their wishes.

Do you mean you want the CCP to suppress these capitalists or do you want to come by yourself?How much is Hong Kong? It's not big when it's the savings tank of the CCP.HK once had plans to develop high technology, which was destroyed by real estate developers.HK's attempt to reclaim land from the sea has also been hampered by environmental groups.If the HK government were really a civil servant in Beijing, this incompetent government would have been replaced.
According to Hong Kong law, it is not illegal to incite rebellion, subvert the government, engage in espionage, carry out independence, support terrorism and carry out terrorist activities in Hong Kong. The police can only prosecute for other reasons.It's really very very freedom

I am pretty sure he wants free and fair elections so that his local government would no longer be controlled by PRC backed capitalists and instead by social democrats who actually care about the people.
Obviously he does not trust the CCP who back the Hong Kong oligarchs against the people.

[Bombadil]

Chief Executive Carrie Lam on Tuesday strongly condemned foreign politicians who have raised concerns about the national security legislation Beijing is drawing up for the SAR, saying the positive response to the move from the Hong Kong public "flies in the face" of the untrue and groundless statements made by overseas critics.

Carrie Lam saying something is not a cite. You could have pointed to Junius Ho - the little triad thug - having an online petition for Article 23 to be implemented, which has a million signature.. of course it's been pointed out that 75% of those are from the mainland but, still, it's a start.

Article 23 is deeply unpopular in HK regardless of what Carrie Lam claims.

[Novus America]

Although I agree recognizing Taiwan again makes more sense we could do both. I admit the Tibet thing is just trolling but it would be fine to watch Xi throw a tantrum over it.

It’s a good thing more practical people run western governments.

Trolling can be quite practical and he is in government plus has 31 other congressmen supporting him.
So hopefully the people you think “practical” (aka CCP stooges) get the boot soon.

[Infected Mushroom]

It’s a good thing more practical people run western governments.

Trolling can be quite practical and he is in government plus has 31 other congressmen supporting him.
So hopefully you people you think “practical” (aka CCP stooges) get the boot soon.

I respectfully disagree

[Heloin]

Then China shouldn't have signed it and submitted it to the UN, they're breaking international law. Pretty clear you don't really care for Law & Order, not when it doesn't suit you.

It’s not really relevant.

Ultimately, Hong Kong is Chinese territory, not British territory. It’s China’s right to deal with national security.

Breaking treaties is breaking the law. the UK was under no obligation to hand Hong Kong over to China. Saying it's rightfully Chinese is about as relevant as saying it's rightfully Mongolian, the Chinese government that handed the Island and land over to the British doesn't exist and hadn't existed for decades. China wanted Hong Kong and to get it it made a treaty with the UK, a treaty China is breaking.

1. There is public support for the law
2. The economy is coming back (stock market panics are not justified)

Both these points lie in the realm of absolute fantasy.

3. China has the right to legislate on national security on its own soil

You can think that but it breaks the law.

4. The allegation that Chinese agents will swoop down and make tons of people disappear exists in the realm of conspiracy theories

This would be a valid statement if China wasn't already know for disappearing people.

I think this is a very persuasive argument, especially number 3

You're a know pedlar of conspiracy theories. If you think something is a persuasive argument it's a good indicator that others should look into it.

[Infected Mushroom]

It’s not really relevant.

Ultimately, Hong Kong is Chinese territory, not British territory. It’s China’s right to deal with national security.

Breaking treaties is breaking the law. the UK was under no obligation to hand Hong Kong over to China. Saying it's rightfully Chinese is about as relevant as saying it's rightfully Mongolian, the Chinese government that handed the Island and land over to the British doesn't exist and hadn't existed for decades. China wanted Hong Kong and to get it it made a treaty with the UK, a treaty China is breaking.

1. There is public support for the law
2. The economy is coming back (stock market panics are not justified)

Both these points lie in the realm of absolute fantasy.

3. China has the right to legislate on national security on its own soil

You can think that but it breaks the law.

4. The allegation that Chinese agents will swoop down and make tons of people disappear exists in the realm of conspiracy theories

This would be a valid statement if China wasn't already know for disappearing people.

I think this is a very persuasive argument, especially number 3

You're a know pedlar of conspiracy theories. If you think something is a persuasive argument it's a good indicator that others should look into it.

You may believe whatever you wish, but Carrie Lam is more experienced and knowledgeable about government matters, matters of law, and the current state of Hong Kong than most of us here. Unless you have served as CE before? I’m inclined to take her word and expertise over yours.

[Bombadil]

You may believe whatever you wish, but Carrie Lam is more experienced and knowledgeable about government matters, matters of law, and the current state of Hong Kong than most of us here. Unless you have served as CE before? I’m inclined to take her word and expertise over yours.

Carrie Lam is deeply unpopular and cut off from public life, not that she cares anymore, her sole job is to parrot CCP propaganda.

Anyway, we're getting way off here given a HK thread..

For our China comrades..

Confirm the NPCSC’s acceptance of Feng Zhonghua’s resignation as an NPCSC member.

Who's Feng Zhonghua and why is he resigning?

[Heloin]

You may believe whatever you wish, but Carrie Lam is more experienced and knowledgeable about government matters, matters of law, and the current state of Hong Kong than most of us here.

She says things that literally contradict the reality of the situation Hong Kong is in. She's either a liar, stupid, or both.

Unless you have served as CE before? I’m inclined to take her word and expertise over yours.

I work in government, have down actual administrative work for government agencies before, and work alongside politicians. My job title my be Lead Ranger (and other things but that'd get close to revealing far to much about me) but I am a government bureaucrat. But if I have to be Chief Executive of Hong Kong in order to post any kind of opinion more knowledgeable then then anything the actual Chief Executive of HK has said then I'm guessing this is you announcing for like the 5th time that you'll be leaving all discussion threads on China forever.

[Tuthina]

You may believe whatever you wish, but Carrie Lam is more experienced and knowledgeable about government matters, matters of law, and the current state of Hong Kong than most of us here. Unless you have served as CE before? I’m inclined to take her word and expertise over yours.

By the same inane logic, most HKer users here have more experience about living in Hong Kong and being in the midst of protests than you, so it's only logical that others should be more inclined to take our words over yours, but that doesn't stop you from declaring that you're leaving the Hong Kong thread 5 times and returning every single time, does it?

[Infected Mushroom]

You may believe whatever you wish, but Carrie Lam is more experienced and knowledgeable about government matters, matters of law, and the current state of Hong Kong than most of us here.

She says things that literally contradict the reality of the situation Hong Kong is in. She's either a liar, stupid, or both.

Unless you have served as CE before? I’m inclined to take her word and expertise over yours.

I work in government, have down actual administrative work for government agencies before, and work alongside politicians. My job title my be Lead Ranger (and other things but that'd get close to revealing far to much about me) but I am a government bureaucrat. But if I have to be Chief Executive of Hong Kong in order to post any kind of opinion more knowledgeable then then anything the actual Chief Executive of HK has said then I'm guessing this is you announcing for like the 5th time that you'll be leaving all discussion threads on China forever.

Err... no you don’t have to be CE to post an opinion. You knew that though. When you clicked Submit, there wasn’t some kind of a block function that said... “are you the CE? Can’t post unless you are.” That’s not how it goes.

However, I cannot take claims that basically amount to “I know more about the situation in HK than the very person administering and running the place for years” seriously. Does that stop you from putting forth the opinion? No. Is it a barrier to credibility? I would say so for me.

And I think you have two standards confused. You clearly don’t have to be CE to link opinions and statements from those who are more experienced. But if you’re going to say “the experienced government is wrong,” then for me personally, the logical question to ask is... “ well then what are your qualifications?”

[Infected Mushroom]

You may believe whatever you wish, but Carrie Lam is more experienced and knowledgeable about government matters, matters of law, and the current state of Hong Kong than most of us here. Unless you have served as CE before? I’m inclined to take her word and expertise over yours.

By the same inane logic, most HKer users here have more experience about living in Hong Kong and being in the midst of protests than you, so it's only logical that others should be more inclined to take our words over yours, but that doesn't stop you from declaring that you're leaving the Hong Kong thread 5 times and returning every single time, does it?

I didn’t quote them though. I quoted from official government statements, which don’t come out until they’ve consulted with their experts.

[Heloin]

She says things that literally contradict the reality of the situation Hong Kong is in. She's either a liar, stupid, or both.


I work in government, have down actual administrative work for government agencies before, and work alongside politicians. My job title my be Lead Ranger (and other things but that'd get close to revealing far to much about me) but I am a government bureaucrat. But if I have to be Chief Executive of Hong Kong in order to post any kind of opinion more knowledgeable then then anything the actual Chief Executive of HK has said then I'm guessing this is you announcing for like the 5th time that you'll be leaving all discussion threads on China forever.

Err... no you don’t have to be CE to post an opinion. You knew that though. When you clicked Submit, there wasn’t some kind of a block function that said... “are you the CE? Can’t post unless you are.” That’s not how it goes.

You dismissed everything I had to say out of hand without even responding to any of it then said that since I wasn't the CE of HK I didn't know what I was talking about. Stop acting like I'm taking your shit out of context. I'm really getting sick and tired of you acting all high and mighty because you say crap and when called out on it you act like I'm some sort of fucking moron.

However, I cannot take claims that basically amount to “I know more about the situation in HK than the very person administering and running the place for years” seriously. Does that stop you from putting forth the opinion? No. Is it a barrier to credibility? I would say so for me.

You refuse to accept credible sources and claim anything that goes against what you say is anti-Chinese propaganda or the work of outside western powers trying to destabilise China. Funnily enough while also saying that all the world actually loves China.

And I think you have two standards confused. You clearly don’t have to be CE to link opinions and statements from those who are more experienced. But if you’re going to say “the experienced government is wrong,” then for me personally, the logical question to ask is... “ well then what are your qualifications?”

Stop condescending me, it's really fucking annoying. If you have no defence for anything I said other than China tells me so you shouldn't then act like I'm some idiot.

[Bombadil]

By the same inane logic, most HKer users here have more experience about living in Hong Kong and being in the midst of protests than you, so it's only logical that others should be more inclined to take our words over yours, but that doesn't stop you from declaring that you're leaving the Hong Kong thread 5 times and returning every single time, does it?

I didn’t quote them though. I quoted from official government statements, which don’t come out until they’ve consulted with their experts. masters in Beijing.

FTFY.

[Arzt0zka]

By the same inane logic, most HKer users here have more experience about living in Hong Kong and being in the midst of protests than you, so it's only logical that others should be more inclined to take our words over yours, but that doesn't stop you from declaring that you're leaving the Hong Kong thread 5 times and returning every single time, does it?

I didn’t quote them though. I quoted from official government statements, which don’t come out until they’ve consulted with their experts.

The chinese government is possibly the worst government in the world, even the DPRK is open about its intentions and South Sudan is trying its best.

The chinese government is currently wiping out the culture of several ethnic groups, including but not limited to the Tibetans, Uyghers, Manchus, Mongolians and the Hui and countless more ethnicities that are nearly gone because of government facilitated colonization by Han Chinese settlers and the genocide of many ethnics groups under Mao (may he burn in hell). Along with this the Chinese government actively withheld and withhold information of the covid virus in an attempt to have it spread to the rest of the world so the entire worlds economy would go down with theirs. Because china volunteering to take the brunt of anything like so many other countries will never happen, along with this it isn't a "conspiracy theory" (a term chinese 10 cent shills use to denounce anything they are told to disagree with) to suggest that the chinese authorities will make people disappear considering that they made one of the Dalai Lamas family members the Panchan Lama disappear and give vague answers or refuse to answer at all when questioned about his horrifying disappearance by the hands of the rats in beijing. China is without a doubt the worst government in the world for: lying, human rights abuses, military aggression and manipulation of global politics.

This won't change by you calling me sinophobic or a conspiracy theorist. Cope.