The Future of China

[Heloin]

You are right about that, I'm just saying they do have that history.

I'm sure all those years of a command economy under Mao didn't help them keep up with the rest of the world.

If you are blocked by the whole world, you can't develop economy.During that period, the greatest wealth brought to China was nuclear bomb, space program, complete independence and dignity.There were many military conflicts between China and the Soviet Union or the United States.Since then, China has been able to talk to the Soviet Union and the United States equally.What other country can do?It's unfair to see things in the cold war from the current perspective

The Soviet Union?

[Albrenia]

If CCP-led China does end up being the dominant force in the world, I worry for all of our futures.

Nothing lasts forever though.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Yeah, I never denied that the Chinese were pretty creative in the past. It's just that in the present the vast majority of their "inventions" are just copies or cheap inferior knockoffs of non-Chinese products.

That is unfortunately true. The "Made in China" trope is so ingrained in our minds now that even if China did make something that is pretty decent and nice (and they have, I agree ^^), you just can't shake off that feeling.

(Please do pardon me if I am veering away from the thread; I haven't NSG in a loooong while.)

No problem.As long as you can find something "not made in China" and affordable.Otherwise, it's no big deal to complain, as long as the capitalists know the quality

[Shanghai industrial complex]

His democratic history is not long.Of course, Taiwan is now a democracy.But friendly, non-manipulative state,It's better to have a good look at what they've done
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan)

（Before being defeated by the CCP, ROC really occupied these islands. At that time, Southeast Asian countries were not independent. So no one has any objection）

I said now, not in the past. That was back when the Kuomintang were way more authoritarian. Look at who rules Taiwan now. And your statement about the independence of SE Asian countries is wrong. The Philippines, Indonesia, Burma, Vietnam and Thailand were all independent before the White Terror began.

So yeah, I object.

The principle of international law is that what happens first cannot be restrained by the law that comes later.If there was no objection at that time, ROC would always have the right to claim that sea area.PRC, on the other hand, inherits the claim of ROC.The United States still owes the Philippines $30 million to rent the office needed by that arbitral tribunal.What makes matters more complicated is that the law of the sea, as an international law, is actually not mandatory.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

If you are blocked by the whole world, you can't develop economy.During that period, the greatest wealth brought to China was nuclear bomb, space program, complete independence and dignity.There were many military conflicts between China and the Soviet Union or the United States.Since then, China has been able to talk to the Soviet Union and the United States equally.What other country can do?It's unfair to see things in the cold war from the current perspective

The Soviet Union?

Nooo!Red Alert！Red Alert！

[Shanghai industrial complex]

It's not like there's inherently anything about being Chinese which makes them innovating impossible or even less likely, I just think that the nation's current culture of stealing other people's ideas and totalitarian government does, at least somewhat, quash the inventive spark of many in it.

So if I were a betting man, my money would not be on the Chinese to win an innovation contest at this time.

If you want really amazing innovation, look at Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Israel, Sweden, Finland, and the USA.

Taiwan, South Korea?What's the innovation?Samsung bomb?

[Australian rePublic]

I remember reading last year that all churches in China were required to take down pictures of Jesus and other religious figures and replace them with ones of Xi Jinping and Mao Zedong.

They are not led by the Pope.And there is a law in China that preaching is illegal. The reason is that people have the freedom to choose religion or not. Missionary suspected of Ideological Manipulation.Preaching is suspected of interfering with the thoughts of others

Preaching is considered to interfere with the thoughts of others? So I'm guessing that all the brainwashing and propoganda of the CCP is not considered interfering with the thoughts of others?

[Shanghai industrial complex]

They are not led by the Pope.And there is a law in China that preaching is illegal. The reason is that people have the freedom to choose religion or not. Missionary suspected of Ideological Manipulation.Preaching is suspected of interfering with the thoughts of others

Preaching is considered to interfere with the thoughts of others? So I'm guessing that all the brainwashing and propoganda of the CCP is not considered interfering with the thoughts of others?

If we don't talk about Christianity.Islamic fundamentalists and extremists?It's hard to quantify the criteria for defining religion.But it's a good excuse to hide and reduce religious influence（I'm an atheist,I will not comment on this）

[Vivolkha]

Ultimately linked to the self-dismantling of the USSR and subsequently of communism in Eastern Europe, despite the claims of a politically independent course in Romania.

Nothing happens independently of the rest of the world aside from the daily happenings of North Sentinel Island. Your claim that no communist regime in human history fell do to internal revolution is just flatly false and I'd add the fall of the Soviet Union into that category as well.

Yeah, no. The CPSU was not overthrown by the masses, it was dismantled from the top in what basically amounted to an intra-party battle (Gorbachev and its allies vs. the conservative elements of the party). And its the release of the Soviet web of control over Eastern Europe that allowed the fall of communism there.

People are so eager to see the fall of the CCP to claim that in any bad situation will lead to its doom, but this could not be further from the truth. I would say China is not even at its worst moment since communist rule. Furthermore, despite public perspective in the West, the reality is that public opinion in China favors the CCP.

[Australian rePublic]

China isn't really that cheap anymore. The only thing China really has going for it these days is supply chains. Break those down, and China's screwed

[Infected Mushroom]

Nothing happens independently of the rest of the world aside from the daily happenings of North Sentinel Island. Your claim that no communist regime in human history fell do to internal revolution is just flatly false and I'd add the fall of the Soviet Union into that category as well.

Yeah, no. The CPSU was not overthrown by the masses, it was dismantled from the top in what basically amounted to an intra-party battle (Gorbachev and its allies vs. the conservative elements of the party). And its the release of the Soviet web of control over Eastern Europe that allowed the fall of communism there.

People are so eager to see the fall of the CCP to claim that in any bad situation will lead to its doom, but this could not be further from the truth. I would say China is not even at its worst moment since communist rule. Furthermore, despite public perspective in the West, the reality is that public opinion in China favors the CCP.

I agree with this.

[Heloin]

Nothing happens independently of the rest of the world aside from the daily happenings of North Sentinel Island. Your claim that no communist regime in human history fell do to internal revolution is just flatly false and I'd add the fall of the Soviet Union into that category as well.

Yeah, no. The CPSU was not overthrown by the masses, it was dismantled from the top in what basically amounted to an intra-party battle (Gorbachev and its allies vs. the conservative elements of the party). And its the release of the Soviet web of control over Eastern Europe that allowed the fall of communism there.

If it was the case that the Soviet Union didn't fall apart due to internal pressure from it's citizens then the August Putsch would have succeeded. Your insistence that communists regimes didn't collapse by popular support is extremely odd seeing that it's the cause of any regime collapse outside of flat out invasion from another country.

People are so eager to see the fall of the CCP to claim that in any bad situation will lead to its doom, but this could not be further from the truth. I would say China is not even at its worst moment since communist rule. Furthermore, despite public perspective in the West, the reality is that public opinion in China favors the CCP.

It's internal political situation is quite stable. The problem China has right now is it's foreign relations and economy, both of which are on the rocks.

[Rojava Free State]

You are right about that, I'm just saying they do have that history.

I'm sure all those years of a command economy under Mao didn't help them keep up with the rest of the world.

If you are blocked by the whole world, you can't develop economy.During that period, the greatest wealth brought to China was nuclear bomb, space program, complete independence and dignity.There were many military conflicts between China and the Soviet Union or the United States.Since then, China has been able to talk to the Soviet Union and the United States equally.What other country can do?It's unfair to see things in the cold war from the current perspective

Blocked off from the rest of the world? It isnt like they were the only communist nation.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

If you are blocked by the whole world, you can't develop economy.During that period, the greatest wealth brought to China was nuclear bomb, space program, complete independence and dignity.There were many military conflicts between China and the Soviet Union or the United States.Since then, China has been able to talk to the Soviet Union and the United States equally.What other country can do?It's unfair to see things in the cold war from the current perspective

Blocked off from the rest of the world? It isnt like they were the only communist nation.

But the only country that was hostile to the Soviet Union and US.At the same time, they are threatened by nuclear weapons from both camps.
After the Cuban crisis, China and the Soviet Union had an open confrontation for three decades.Do you think China and the Soviet Union are in the same camp?Throughout the 1960s and 1970s, there was no economic exchange between the Chinese and Western camps and the socialist camp.Mao Zedong called China the third world, and only kept the communication with Africa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split


This is the poster of Mao era. It says, "defeat Soviet Revisionism, defeat American imperialism."Perhaps to some surprise, during the cold war, the socialist camp was basically an enemy of China,the capitalist camp is also an enemy of China.And China was poorer than Africa.It was not until the establishment of diplomatic relations between China and the United States against the Soviet Union that all this began to improve

[Reznoviya]

Cos Socialism bad? Okay!

Not because of socialism. Because your government sends ethnic minorities to consentration camps, quashes free speech, punishes doctors who do their job and prevent diseases, have engineered the socail credit score system, (a system so evil that Satan himself envies it), allegedly harvests the organ of Faulen Gong practitioners. If that's what socialism is, then fuck socialism! The USA is far from perfect, but it's nowhere that evil! At least in the USA, you have freedom and they kill innocent people for stupid reasons

Socialism is not supposed to be tyrannical. Did you know Orwell was a Socialist no?

[Reznoviya]

Nothing happens independently of the rest of the world aside from the daily happenings of North Sentinel Island. Your claim that no communist regime in human history fell do to internal revolution is just flatly false and I'd add the fall of the Soviet Union into that category as well.

Yeah, no. The CPSU was not overthrown by the masses, it was dismantled from the top in what basically amounted to an intra-party battle (Gorbachev and its allies vs. the conservative elements of the party). And its the release of the Soviet web of control over Eastern Europe that allowed the fall of communism there.

People are so eager to see the fall of the CCP to claim that in any bad situation will lead to its doom, but this could not be further from the truth. I would say China is not even at its worst moment since communist rule. Furthermore, despite public perspective in the West, the reality is that public opinion in China favors the CCP.

People are so eager to claim that any kind of Socialist country failed to work as well. To satisfy their arrogance.

[Reznoviya]

Aussie, I don't know why you are suddenly assuming he's Chinese.

Are there non-Chinese people part of the 50 cent army? Because if he/she isn't a member of the 50 cent army, I'd be extremely surprised. I've seen 50 cent army people all over the internet, and they act like this

If I was Chinese, then I would be not permitted to use this site. I'm a freaking American for the last time. Freedom, doesn't persecute people for having an opposite view.
American non-Chinese Socialists exist. They're not non-existent you know.

[Nakena]

Are there non-Chinese people part of the 50 cent army? Because if he/she isn't a member of the 50 cent army, I'd be extremely surprised. I've seen 50 cent army people all over the internet, and they act like this

If I was Chinese, then I would be not permitted to use this site. I'm a freaking American for the last time. Freedom, doesn't persecute people for having an opposite view.
American non-Chinese Socialists exist. They're not non-existent you know.

Actually NationStates is accessible within PRC controlled mainlaind China.

Perhaps its cause nobody has yet posted the infamous copypasta.

[Reznoviya]

If I was Chinese, then I would be not permitted to use this site. I'm a freaking American for the last time. Freedom, doesn't persecute people for having an opposite view.
American non-Chinese Socialists exist. They're not non-existent you know.

Actually NationStates is accessible within PRC controlled mainlaind China.

Perhaps its cause nobody has yet posted the infamous copypasta.

Ok then.

If I was Chinese, then I would easily know Chinese, which I don't

[Heloin]

If I was Chinese, then I would easily know Chinese, which I don't

This is the kind of high level arguments I come to Nationstates for.

[Reznoviya]

If I was Chinese, then I would easily know Chinese, which I don't

This is the kind of high level arguments I come to Nationstates for.

High Level Argument? I'm an American white Caucasian.

[Ethel mermania]

Actually NationStates is accessible within PRC controlled mainlaind China.

Perhaps its cause nobody has yet posted the infamous copypasta.

Ok then.

If I was Chinese, then I would easily know Chinese, which I don't

I have American friends white and black that are fluent in Cantonese. Great fun when going out to eat Chinese with them.

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

I just think that the nation's current culture of stealing other people's ideas and totalitarian government does, at least somewhat, quash the inventive spark of many in it.

This is called learning.

In 1990, technical capacity of Chinese industry was really weak. They could build only basic industrial machine tools and components. Now, it's really strong. They almost caught up to technical parity with the west in highly precise instruments, not yet but nearly. They can make complex technical parts that a lot of western countries simply cannot make, including turbofans and nuclear propulsion systems. Chinese can now build advanced and very capable railway systems also.

In one generation they have nearly caught up to us from third world levels of industrial capacity. There was nothing much innovative about South Korea or Finland either in 1950s

[Reznoviya]

Ok then.

If I was Chinese, then I would easily know Chinese, which I don't

I have American friends white and black that are fluent in Cantonese. Great fun when going out to eat Chinese with them.

I am not Asian.

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

China has a long history of inventing things. For example, take a look at this source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_C ... inventions

Yeah, in the past. Now they mostly just steal ideas

What is "the past?"

Chinese civilisation is contiguous for five thousand years. "The past" is the blink of an eye.