The Future of China

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Because he doesn't have nothing.After graduating from Tsinghua University, he joined the Central Committee of China as a secretary.Since then, he has been a senior local official.The only different experience is going to poverty-stricken areas to participate in agricultural labor before university. It was Mao Zedong's policy to send all young intellectuals to the countryside for three years. Let them feel the difficulties of the proletariat and prevent them from becoming petty bourgeoisie.Because at that time, they were the elites with superior life.
The last leader, Hu Jintao, is the real one with nothing. Hu is the son of ordinary peasants

So if all children of high ranking party officials are required to become nothings, then why is it even noteworthy, much less impressive, that Xi was a nothing?

What are you trying to say? I know every word of your sentence, but I don't know the meaning of it

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

It's very impressive Xi came from nothing
He wasn't a nothing
Then why's it impressive
???

“Confusion ensues”

[Australian rePublic]

So if all children of high ranking party officials are required to become nothings, then why is it even noteworthy, much less impressive, that Xi was a nothing?

What are you trying to say? I know every word of your sentence, but I don't know the meaning of it

Xi wasn't nothing

[Shanghai industrial complex]

What are you trying to say? I know every word of your sentence, but I don't know the meaning of it

Xi wasn't nothing

Mao Zedong hated the fact that the elite thought they were superior to the common people.This elite class includes not only the children of senior officials of the Communist Party of China, but also senior intellectuals, who enter universities through education.The children of senior officials accounted for 1% of the top at that time.Mao believed that they had been corrupted by the bourgeoisie and it was necessary to protect the workers and peasants from them.But obviously Mao's idea was used by some interest groups at that time to attack others. After Deng Xiaoping came to power, Xi Jinping gained the best political resources through his father. His father is not just a senior official, his father is one of the early founders of the Communist Party of China, Deng Xiaoping is relatively young.Xi is a descendant of the first generation of leaders of the Communist Party of China. They were too young and not qualified before.Many Chinese people oppose Xi Jinping because he is a descendant of senior officials. This is traditionally considered to be inability to rely on father resources in China.His ability was doubted, so he needed to highlight his actions and influence and try to play down the benefits of his father's status.


Describing Xi as a crazy Avenger will make some people happy, which is also in line with the taste of conspiracy theory. The fact is that Xi Jinping has caught up with a good time. After graduation, Deng Xiaoping came to power. Deng Xiaoping hated ideology and political struggle. So until recently, ideological struggle, whether capitalist or communist or anything else, was considered stupid and thought stuck in the Cold War era.
But Xi Jinping's idea is obviously more biased towards Mao Zedong, who hates Neo liberalism, and is also the mainstream ideology of the new generation of China's elite. They call themselves the industrial party. The specific point is that
1. The existing market mechanism is a practical theory based on the industrial system of developed countries

2. The root of backwardness is the lack of a complete industrial system

3. The West does not allow backward countries to establish large industrial system

4. Building a complete industrial system is the important way for China to be strong

5. Western economics has become a very ingenious theoretical tool to prevent backward countries from becoming rich and powerful;

The core idea is Productivity determines Society.This is also the core of the current learning policy of XI.It is believed that as long as China's economy, industry and technology continue to develop, the universal value advocated by the West will soon be in crisis and bankrupt.

But these policies are too radical in the eyes of the previous generation of elites, who tend to think that China should treat the West in a more conciliatory way.Before, the industrial party was not the mainstream among them, but now it has become the mainstream.What makes them more confident is that China's industrial output exceeds that of the United States, Japan and Germany combined.And this was never done after the first World War.

[Australian rePublic]

Xi wasn't nothing

Mao Zedong hated the fact that the elite thought they were superior to the common people.This elite class includes not only the children of senior officials of the Communist Party of China, but also senior intellectuals, who enter universities through education.The children of senior officials accounted for 1% of the top at that time.Mao believed that they had been corrupted by the bourgeoisie and it was necessary to protect the workers and peasants from them.But obviously Mao's idea was used by some interest groups at that time to attack others. After Deng Xiaoping came to power, Xi Jinping gained the best political resources through his father. His father is not just a senior official, his father is one of the early founders of the Communist Party of China, Deng Xiaoping is relatively young.Xi is a descendant of the first generation of leaders of the Communist Party of China. They were too young and not qualified before.Many Chinese people oppose Xi Jinping because he is a descendant of senior officials. This is traditionally considered to be inability to rely on father resources in China.His ability was doubted, so he needed to highlight his actions and influence and try to play down the benefits of his father's status.


Describing Xi as a crazy Avenger will make some people happy, which is also in line with the taste of conspiracy theory. The fact is that Xi Jinping has caught up with a good time. After graduation, Deng Xiaoping came to power. Deng Xiaoping hated ideology and political struggle. So until recently, ideological struggle, whether capitalist or communist or anything else, was considered stupid and thought stuck in the Cold War era.
But Xi Jinping's idea is obviously more biased towards Mao Zedong, who hates Neo liberalism, and is also the mainstream ideology of the new generation of China's elite. They call themselves the industrial party. The specific point is that
1. The existing market mechanism is a practical theory based on the industrial system of developed countries

2. The root of backwardness is the lack of a complete industrial system

3. The West does not allow backward countries to establish large industrial system

4. Building a complete industrial system is the important way for China to be strong

5. Western economics has become a very ingenious theoretical tool to prevent backward countries from becoming rich and powerful;

The core idea is Productivity determines Society.This is also the core of the current learning policy of XI.It is believed that as long as China's economy, industry and technology continue to develop, the universal value advocated by the West will soon be in crisis and bankrupt.

But these policies are too radical in the eyes of the previous generation of elites, who tend to think that China should treat the West in a more conciliatory way.Before, the industrial party was not the mainstream among them, but now it has become the mainstream.What makes them more confident is that China's industrial output exceeds that of the United States, Japan and Germany combined.And this was never done after the first World War.

Xi wasn't raised up from nothing. Xi was always a high ranking member of the CCP. You're contradicting yourself mate! This is a very weird form of double think.

Also, China's industrial output exceeds that of the USA, Japan and Germany combined? That's nothing. China has more than the entire population of those countries combined. Let me know when China's per capita industrial output outperforms the USA, Germany or Japan

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Mao Zedong hated the fact that the elite thought they were superior to the common people.This elite class includes not only the children of senior officials of the Communist Party of China, but also senior intellectuals, who enter universities through education.The children of senior officials accounted for 1% of the top at that time.Mao believed that they had been corrupted by the bourgeoisie and it was necessary to protect the workers and peasants from them.But obviously Mao's idea was used by some interest groups at that time to attack others. After Deng Xiaoping came to power, Xi Jinping gained the best political resources through his father. His father is not just a senior official, his father is one of the early founders of the Communist Party of China, Deng Xiaoping is relatively young.Xi is a descendant of the first generation of leaders of the Communist Party of China. They were too young and not qualified before.Many Chinese people oppose Xi Jinping because he is a descendant of senior officials. This is traditionally considered to be inability to rely on father resources in China.His ability was doubted, so he needed to highlight his actions and influence and try to play down the benefits of his father's status.


Describing Xi as a crazy Avenger will make some people happy, which is also in line with the taste of conspiracy theory. The fact is that Xi Jinping has caught up with a good time. After graduation, Deng Xiaoping came to power. Deng Xiaoping hated ideology and political struggle. So until recently, ideological struggle, whether capitalist or communist or anything else, was considered stupid and thought stuck in the Cold War era.
But Xi Jinping's idea is obviously more biased towards Mao Zedong, who hates Neo liberalism, and is also the mainstream ideology of the new generation of China's elite. They call themselves the industrial party. The specific point is that
1. The existing market mechanism is a practical theory based on the industrial system of developed countries

2. The root of backwardness is the lack of a complete industrial system

3. The West does not allow backward countries to establish large industrial system

4. Building a complete industrial system is the important way for China to be strong

5. Western economics has become a very ingenious theoretical tool to prevent backward countries from becoming rich and powerful;

The core idea is Productivity determines Society.This is also the core of the current learning policy of XI.It is believed that as long as China's economy, industry and technology continue to develop, the universal value advocated by the West will soon be in crisis and bankrupt.

But these policies are too radical in the eyes of the previous generation of elites, who tend to think that China should treat the West in a more conciliatory way.Before, the industrial party was not the mainstream among them, but now it has become the mainstream.What makes them more confident is that China's industrial output exceeds that of the United States, Japan and Germany combined.And this was never done after the first World War.

Xi wasn't raised up from nothing. Xi was always a high ranking member of the CCP. You're contradicting yourself mate! This is a very weird form of double think.

Also, China's industrial output exceeds that of the USA, Japan and Germany combined? That's nothing. China has more than the entire population of those countries combined. Let me know when China's per capita industrial output outperforms the USA, Germany or Japan

I say he doesn't have nothing,I mean he a lot of Resources.Is this sentence strange?
This is happen in Lately,maybe 2018 or 2019.You can see the data from the world bank or UN.But it may take some calculation
2018 industrial output China 553,209,290 US 367,580,000 Japan 134,872,886 German 111,801,846
2018 Industrial Added Value China 613,151,240 US 367,567,808 Japan 134,869,803 German 111,793,757

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NV.IND.TOTL.ZS
https://unstats.un.org/unsd/snaama/Index

[Novus America]

The US and a strong China could absolutely coexist okay, even though some rivalry would still exist, if the China was less authoritarian, less zero sum, and willing to accept certain norms in trade, human rights, the law of the sea, etc.

The United States has not ratified the law of the sea, has withdrawn from international human rights organizations, and has rendered the WTO ineffective.Others Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty,Arms Trade Treaty，etc.Signed but approved.And The US has been an exclusive obstacle to the resumption of negotiations to verify the BWC.
It seems that maybe the United States needs to correct its mistakes first, not so double standard.When you give an example, you'd better choose some places that America really does well.

On the WTO you OPENLY ADMIT destroying our manufacturing is our objective. The US has limited its involvement in the WTO because the PRC destroyed it, which you admit, was the PRC’s objective. Since the PRC’s industrial policy, in your own words, is hostile to the US, designed to harm us, how can we possibly have any real agreement on trade? The PRC views trade just as a zero some game to harm us, as YOU ADMIT!

UNCLOS is different than the customary law of the sea. It is based on it, but some details in UNCLOS are in dispute. We follow the customary law (such as not illegally extending our territorial waters) regardless.
The PRC’s Nine Dash Line has no basis in any international law whatsoever and has been ruled illegal. Until that is dropped, things will not get better.

And the reason the US has issues with the UN Human Rights organization is it is stacked with the worst offenders. Again the US is far superior on human rights by an international standard.

So drop the whataboutism.

Regardless this does not change the point. You openly acknowledge our viewpoints are incompatible and cooperation is impossible.
That is the point.

[Novus America]

Xi wasn't nothing

Mao Zedong hated the fact that the elite thought they were superior to the common people.This elite class includes not only the children of senior officials of the Communist Party of China, but also senior intellectuals, who enter universities through education.The children of senior officials accounted for 1% of the top at that time.Mao believed that they had been corrupted by the bourgeoisie and it was necessary to protect the workers and peasants from them.But obviously Mao's idea was used by some interest groups at that time to attack others. After Deng Xiaoping came to power, Xi Jinping gained the best political resources through his father. His father is not just a senior official, his father is one of the early founders of the Communist Party of China, Deng Xiaoping is relatively young.Xi is a descendant of the first generation of leaders of the Communist Party of China. They were too young and not qualified before.Many Chinese people oppose Xi Jinping because he is a descendant of senior officials. This is traditionally considered to be inability to rely on father resources in China.His ability was doubted, so he needed to highlight his actions and influence and try to play down the benefits of his father's status.


Describing Xi as a crazy Avenger will make some people happy, which is also in line with the taste of conspiracy theory. The fact is that Xi Jinping has caught up with a good time. After graduation, Deng Xiaoping came to power. Deng Xiaoping hated ideology and political struggle. So until recently, ideological struggle, whether capitalist or communist or anything else, was considered stupid and thought stuck in the Cold War era.
But Xi Jinping's idea is obviously more biased towards Mao Zedong, who hates Neo liberalism, and is also the mainstream ideology of the new generation of China's elite. They call themselves the industrial party. The specific point is that
1. The existing market mechanism is a practical theory based on the industrial system of developed countries

2. The root of backwardness is the lack of a complete industrial system

3. The West does not allow backward countries to establish large industrial system

4. Building a complete industrial system is the important way for China to be strong

5. Western economics has become a very ingenious theoretical tool to prevent backward countries from becoming rich and powerful;

The core idea is Productivity determines Society.This is also the core of the current learning policy of XI.It is believed that as long as China's economy, industry and technology continue to develop, the universal value advocated by the West will soon be in crisis and bankrupt.

But these policies are too radical in the eyes of the previous generation of elites, who tend to think that China should treat the West in a more conciliatory way.Before, the industrial party was not the mainstream among them, but now it has become the mainstream.What makes them more confident is that China's industrial output exceeds that of the United States, Japan and Germany combined.And this was never done after the first World War.

And thus by your own admission the PRC and US cannot cooperate on trade, and we should stop PRC imports as the PRC is using them to undermine us.

That is the irony of your triumphalism. You show the PRC’s true colors.
That cooperation is impossible.

[Novus America]

The problem is those technologies, especially things like additives manufacturing will make the PRC no longer a desirable place to to businesses. People make things there because it has a large workforce paid low wages and poor labor protections (along with poor environmental standards and unfair trade practices). With automation labor costs will be less a concern.
To cut shipping costs and times the factories will move near to the consumer.

Thus products sold in North America will be made in North America, not the PRC.

If the reality is as you say, there is nothing to worry about in America.Unfortunately, the cost of human resources in industry is usually not the main cost.And the west is no longer the absolute leader of new technology.
Most of those automation factories are not owned by Western capitalists. You'd better look for other reasons.

I would not say we have nothing to worry about, but clearly the PRC’s economic model is unsustainable. And actually the import factories are owned by Taiwanese capitalists, but that does not really matter, because the developers do not own the factories.
Apple does not own the factories in the PRC they use for example, and will dump the PRC as PRC costs rise. Labor is a big cost, but sure other costs are becoming more important. Like shipping and energy costs. North America has much lower energy and shipping costs for products to be sold in North America. Already factories are packing up and leaving the PRC.

“According to Bloomberg, the lowest prices for manufacturing can be found in Indonesia, next are India, Mexico, Thailand. China has the fifth place in their list before Taiwan which takes the 6th place. On the seventh place comes the US.”
“As for the cost of manufacturing in the US VS China, the difference is just 5%.”
https://sellernexus.com/manufacturing-cost-china

So the US can cut off PRC trade with minimal costs, and the PRC is losing competitiveness.
Not surprisingly manufacturing is already leaving the PRC for elsewhere like Vietnam and Mexico.
The days of the PRC as the cheapest manufacturer are over.
So its own race to the bottom scheme will turn against it.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Mao Zedong hated the fact that the elite thought they were superior to the common people.This elite class includes not only the children of senior officials of the Communist Party of China, but also senior intellectuals, who enter universities through education.The children of senior officials accounted for 1% of the top at that time.Mao believed that they had been corrupted by the bourgeoisie and it was necessary to protect the workers and peasants from them.But obviously Mao's idea was used by some interest groups at that time to attack others. After Deng Xiaoping came to power, Xi Jinping gained the best political resources through his father. His father is not just a senior official, his father is one of the early founders of the Communist Party of China, Deng Xiaoping is relatively young.Xi is a descendant of the first generation of leaders of the Communist Party of China. They were too young and not qualified before.Many Chinese people oppose Xi Jinping because he is a descendant of senior officials. This is traditionally considered to be inability to rely on father resources in China.His ability was doubted, so he needed to highlight his actions and influence and try to play down the benefits of his father's status.


Describing Xi as a crazy Avenger will make some people happy, which is also in line with the taste of conspiracy theory. The fact is that Xi Jinping has caught up with a good time. After graduation, Deng Xiaoping came to power. Deng Xiaoping hated ideology and political struggle. So until recently, ideological struggle, whether capitalist or communist or anything else, was considered stupid and thought stuck in the Cold War era.
But Xi Jinping's idea is obviously more biased towards Mao Zedong, who hates Neo liberalism, and is also the mainstream ideology of the new generation of China's elite. They call themselves the industrial party. The specific point is that
1. The existing market mechanism is a practical theory based on the industrial system of developed countries

2. The root of backwardness is the lack of a complete industrial system

3. The West does not allow backward countries to establish large industrial system

4. Building a complete industrial system is the important way for China to be strong

5. Western economics has become a very ingenious theoretical tool to prevent backward countries from becoming rich and powerful;

The core idea is Productivity determines Society.This is also the core of the current learning policy of XI.It is believed that as long as China's economy, industry and technology continue to develop, the universal value advocated by the West will soon be in crisis and bankrupt.

But these policies are too radical in the eyes of the previous generation of elites, who tend to think that China should treat the West in a more conciliatory way.Before, the industrial party was not the mainstream among them, but now it has become the mainstream.What makes them more confident is that China's industrial output exceeds that of the United States, Japan and Germany combined.And this was never done after the first World War.

And thus by your own admission the PRC and US cannot cooperate on trade, and we should stop PRC imports as the PRC is using them to undermine us.

That is the irony of your triumphalism. You show the PRC’s true colors.
That cooperation is impossible.

The factory will not return to the United States. Half a century has passed since you finished the work.You still have to do business with China.The stronger China's industry is, the more you can't refuse trade cooperation

[Shanghai industrial complex]

If the reality is as you say, there is nothing to worry about in America.Unfortunately, the cost of human resources in industry is usually not the main cost.And the west is no longer the absolute leader of new technology.
Most of those automation factories are not owned by Western capitalists. You'd better look for other reasons.

I would not say we have nothing to worry about, but clearly the PRC’s economic model is unsustainable. And actually the import factories are owned by Taiwanese capitalists, but that does not really matter, because the developers do not own the factories.
Apple does not own the factories in the PRC they use for example, and will dump the PRC as PRC costs rise. Labor is a big cost, but sure other costs are becoming more important. Like shipping and energy costs. North America has much lower energy and shipping costs for products to be sold in North America. Already factories are packing up and leaving the PRC.

“According to Bloomberg, the lowest prices for manufacturing can be found in Indonesia, next are India, Mexico, Thailand. China has the fifth place in their list before Taiwan which takes the 6th place. On the seventh place comes the US.”
“As for the cost of manufacturing in the US VS China, the difference is just 5%.”
https://sellernexus.com/manufacturing-cost-china

So the US can cut off PRC trade with minimal costs, and the PRC is losing competitiveness.
Not surprisingly manufacturing is already leaving the PRC for elsewhere like Vietnam and Mexico.
The days of the PRC as the cheapest manufacturer are over.
So its own race to the bottom scheme will turn against it.

I don't know how to explain the supply chain to you....
In Vietnam, their factory has to import parts from China and then assemble them.In February and March, their factory was close to being shut down because China was not exporting.In addition, there are logistics cost, energy cost, policy advantage and R & D capability

[Novus America]

And thus by your own admission the PRC and US cannot cooperate on trade, and we should stop PRC imports as the PRC is using them to undermine us.

That is the irony of your triumphalism. You show the PRC’s true colors.
That cooperation is impossible.

The factory will not return to the United States. Half a century has passed since you finished the work.You still have to do business with China.The stronger China's industry is, the more you can't refuse trade cooperation

Again we are only 5% more expensive in manufacturing costs.
So some might. But sure you unless we use subsidies an tariffs not much will come straight here.
The factory will be leaving the PRC though. For Vietnam and Mexico. It is happening already.

The PRC is no longer cheapest. The PRC industry will be getting weaker. We have cheaper alternatives (and a 5% increase I would gladly pay). We no longer need the PRC.

The PRC is already past its peak in terms of growth. Growth is slowing, factories leaving.
Soon the PRC will suffer the same fate we did. The race to the bottom you used against us is a double edged sword and it will cut deep.

[New Bremerton]

Post deleted due to incorrect formatting. Will repost shortly. Done.

[Novus America]

I would not say we have nothing to worry about, but clearly the PRC’s economic model is unsustainable. And actually the import factories are owned by Taiwanese capitalists, but that does not really matter, because the developers do not own the factories.
Apple does not own the factories in the PRC they use for example, and will dump the PRC as PRC costs rise. Labor is a big cost, but sure other costs are becoming more important. Like shipping and energy costs. North America has much lower energy and shipping costs for products to be sold in North America. Already factories are packing up and leaving the PRC.

“According to Bloomberg, the lowest prices for manufacturing can be found in Indonesia, next are India, Mexico, Thailand. China has the fifth place in their list before Taiwan which takes the 6th place. On the seventh place comes the US.”
“As for the cost of manufacturing in the US VS China, the difference is just 5%.”
https://sellernexus.com/manufacturing-cost-china

So the US can cut off PRC trade with minimal costs, and the PRC is losing competitiveness.
Not surprisingly manufacturing is already leaving the PRC for elsewhere like Vietnam and Mexico.
The days of the PRC as the cheapest manufacturer are over.
So its own race to the bottom scheme will turn against it.

I don't know how to explain the supply chain to you....
In Vietnam, their factory has to import parts from China and then assemble them.In February and March, their factory was close to being shut down because China was not exporting.In addition, there are logistics cost, energy cost, policy advantage and R & D capability

The PRC has high energy costs. And is getting killed on the policy advantage.
Americans have turned against the PRC. And Mexico has NAFTA. Mexico has a huge policy advantage. Logistics? It is much easier to drive a truck from Tijuana to LA than send a ship from Shanghai. Plus it can be from Tijuana to LA in hours.
Trucks and trains are faster and often cheaper.

And sure it will not happen overnight, but it is happening. The PRC is losing competitiveness.
Sure at first they will assemble things using components from the PRC, but then they start making the components. The shift will easily take a descale or more to complete, but it is beginning.

This is not the end, but it is the beginning of the end.

But sure we need to speed it up. That is why we need to increase tariffs more and more.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

The factory will not return to the United States. Half a century has passed since you finished the work.You still have to do business with China.The stronger China's industry is, the more you can't refuse trade cooperation

Again we are only 5% more expensive in manufacturing costs.
So some might. But sure you unless we use subsidies an tariffs not much will come straight here.
The factory will be leaving the PRC though. For Vietnam and Mexico. It is happening already.

The PRC is no longer cheapest. The PRC industry will be getting weaker. We have cheaper alternatives (and a 5% increase I would gladly pay). We no longer need the PRC.

The PRC is already past its peak in terms of growth. Growth is slowing, factories leaving.
Soon the PRC will suffer the same fate we did. The race to the bottom you used against us is a double edged sword and it will cut deep.

The US also has subsidies in its own industry......Subsidy is a kind of government behavior with a long history and effective. Don't you support Neo liberalism? Neoliberalism opposes subsidies because it prevents international capital from monopolizing the market.The cost of goods is not just the cost of labor. Pre investment, logistics, energy, tariffs and other costs are. If Apple moves its factory to Vietnam, relevant supporting enterprises must move to Vietnam to have cost advantage.And if you move to Mexico, it's too messy. Political instability and difficulty in finding qualified engineers.If your production line in Vietnam breaks down, you have to wait for foreign engineers to repair it. In China, you can easily find local maintenance personnel

[Heloin]

And thus by your own admission the PRC and US cannot cooperate on trade, and we should stop PRC imports as the PRC is using them to undermine us.

That is the irony of your triumphalism. You show the PRC’s true colors.
That cooperation is impossible.

The factory will not return to the United States. Half a century has passed since you finished the work.You still have to do business with China.The stronger China's industry is, the more you can't refuse trade cooperation

And the factories of China are moving to Southeast Asia, India, and Africa. China's attempt to find a cheaper source of labour will bite them in the arse since the end goal of manufactured products still ends up being Europe and America.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

The PRC has high energy costs. And is getting killed on the policy advantage.

Are you sure?China is the biggest power producer.The price of industrial electricity is about the same as that of the US.India and Vietnam don't even have stable electricity

[Heloin]

The PRC has high energy costs. And is getting killed on the policy advantage.

Are you sure?China is the biggest power producer.The price of industrial electricity is about the same as that of the US.India and Vietnam don't even have stable electricity

What?

[Shanghai industrial complex]

I don't know how to explain the supply chain to you....
In Vietnam, their factory has to import parts from China and then assemble them.In February and March, their factory was close to being shut down because China was not exporting.In addition, there are logistics cost, energy cost, policy advantage and R & D capability

The PRC has high energy costs. And is getting killed on the policy advantage.
Americans have turned against the PRC. And Mexico has NAFTA. Mexico has a huge policy advantage. Logistics? It is much easier to drive a truck from Tijuana to LA than send a ship from Shanghai. Plus it can be from Tijuana to LA in hours.
Trucks and trains are faster and often cheaper.

And sure it will not happen overnight, but it is happening. The PRC is losing competitiveness.
Sure at first they will assemble things using components from the PRC, but then they start making the components. The shift will easily take a descale or more to complete, but it is beginning.

This is not the end, but it is the beginning of the end.

But sure we need to speed it up. That is why we need to increase tariffs more and more.

It's cheaper for you to go from Mexico to the United States than for China, but it's not cheap to go from Vietnam to the United States. Their port is too small. You can move the factory to Mexico. It should be said that this happened before the factory came to China

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

The PRC has high energy costs. And is getting killed on the policy advantage.

Are you sure?China is the biggest power producer.The price of industrial electricity is about the same as that of the US.India and Vietnam don't even have stable electricity

What we're talking about here is the price, not necessarily the power and capacity of power systems.

[Novus America]

Again we are only 5% more expensive in manufacturing costs.
So some might. But sure you unless we use subsidies an tariffs not much will come straight here.
The factory will be leaving the PRC though. For Vietnam and Mexico. It is happening already.

The PRC is no longer cheapest. The PRC industry will be getting weaker. We have cheaper alternatives (and a 5% increase I would gladly pay). We no longer need the PRC.

The PRC is already past its peak in terms of growth. Growth is slowing, factories leaving.
Soon the PRC will suffer the same fate we did. The race to the bottom you used against us is a double edged sword and it will cut deep.

The US also has subsidies in its own industry......Subsidy is a kind of government behavior with a long history and effective. Don't you support Neo liberalism? Neoliberalism opposes subsidies because it prevents international capital from monopolizing the market.The cost of goods is not just the cost of labor. Pre investment, logistics, energy, tariffs and other costs are. If Apple moves its factory to Vietnam, relevant supporting enterprises must move to Vietnam to have cost advantage.And if you move to Mexico, it's too messy. Political instability and difficulty in finding qualified engineers.If your production line in Vietnam breaks down, you have to wait for foreign engineers to repair it. In China, you can easily find local maintenance personnel

Again, I am not a neoliberal obviously.
Neoliberalism was obviously a bad idea. I support we return to our pre 70s ideas. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/America ... (economics)
Neoliberalism is unAmerican (School at least) ironically.

Yes subsidizing your industry is often good. But it is against the WTO. But we should leave the WTO.

Have you read List or Hamilton?

But there is a fundamental difference here. I support subsidizing our manufacturing for domestic consumption, not to emphasize export. I have no problem with things made in the PRC, subsidized by the PRC, being sold in the PRC. Just I have a problem with them being sold here.

I cannot say all the PRC’s industrial policies are bad morally (the labor abuses are but government support of manufacturing is not). But they make free trade impossible.
So we should stop pretending it is.

Mexico is stable enough in the areas the factories are (although not overall). And the proximity and NAFTA advantages, plus ultra cheap energy costs using our natural gas the PRC cannot touch. Especially as the trend is now towards custom made products and overnight shipping.
A thing made in Mexico can be in the US the next day cheaply bu train or truck. To get it from a ship from Shanghai takes a month or more.

And you think Mexico is not training more engineers?

There is blood in the water, and the PRC’s competition is not going to sit back and do nothing. You assume everything will remain the same, when times are changing. Do you really think the PRC can keep up what it did the past 20 years forever?

And again, obviously the PRC has not lost all competitiveness yet, but it is less competitive than it was just a few years ago. Sure right now the Vietnam does not have as many maintainemce personnel, but the are training more!
Again this is not the end, it is the beginning of the end.

It will probably take a decade or so for the shift to complete, but it is starting to happen.

[Novus America]

The PRC has high energy costs. And is getting killed on the policy advantage.

Are you sure?China is the biggest power producer.The price of industrial electricity is about the same as that of the US.India and Vietnam don't even have stable electricity

That is not important. If I make 1,000,000 widgets at $100 each and you make 2,000,000 at $200 each you make more but your per widget cost is still higher.
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-in ... tes/Energy

For example gasoline costs 41% more in the PRC than the US.

Power and energy production are not the same. Power plants convert energy. They still need inputs.
Guess who is the biggest produce of oil and gas?
The PRC’s reliance on foreign oil and gas is a major weakness.
One we can exploit.

[New Bremerton]

I am quite shocked. I showed no clear stance, I merely stated why I see China is acting the way it does and what I think will happen. Yet you blast me? How is that conducive at all? Maybe it is best to just stay off forums. The first thing people learn in studying sources is to not trust ones that are emotionally charged. (ALSO Including PRC Propaganda) and I tend to steer away from people like you. Only when you can understand the reasons and can one confront China effectively without starting an all-out war. Do you think I Like China? I hate them for banning K-pop and the multitude of stupid things they do. I believe they should implement democracy and free the media. As a Singaporean, I do not want to lose Instagram.

I think you only read the beginning about the backdrop of China's authoritarian and reasons for 1989 without reading the rest. Don't judge a book by its cover. It is very obvious you did not read everything. I never justified Tiananmen but I said context is needed. Quote Gwangju uprising, now South Korea is a democracy. China being a bigger nation will need more time so calm your tits down and read everything before you seem like a shallow-minded person. You are not helping the stereotype of most Hong Kongers who never had to defend their nation.

Re-read the bit in bold again.

I was always under the impression that Chinese-Singaporeans are overwhelmingly pro-CCP in their outlook given how quickly Singapore developed under Lee Kuan Yew's authoritarian grip and given how they feel they've been well-pampered and looked after by the PAP. It, therefore, comes as no surprise that most Singaporeans see nothing wrong with the CCP in its current form and hold the position that "rioters" in Hong Kong ought to be gunned down in broad daylight for daring to rebel and fight for their basic human rights and dignity, and that the Tiananmen "terrorists" had it coming. There is also the cultural connection that many Malaysian and Singaporean Chinese have with China that predisposes them to defend China and conflate opposition to the CCP with anti-Chinese racism and hanjianism (someone on a different thread, whom I've since blocked, recently accused me of "selling out"). In the case of Malaysian Chinese, this is also juxtaposed against decades of anti-Chinese racism and corruption under a Malay-Muslim exclusive government. It's good to know that you are above all of that. Kudos to you.

I just want Hong Kong, my hometown, to go back to how it was before Carrie Lam, Xi Jinping and the Hong Kong Police Force fucked it up. Destroying the CCP is my top priority, over and above eliminating racism and corruption in Malaysia where I now live. As such, I'm one of those "radicals" who believe that a Cold War with China is long overdue. As for Trump, let's just say the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I praised you personally for being able to rise above the lies and bullshit, actually, and I did it unironically. I was merely noting how many Singaporeans and Malaysian Chinese seem to fall for the CCP's propaganda these days, including members of my own family. I'm actually glad you wrote what you wrote to prove the stereotype of the Singaporean authoritarian bootlicker wrong. It's a breath of fresh air. You really should follow your own advice and "calm your tits".

[Novus America]

The PRC has high energy costs. And is getting killed on the policy advantage.
Americans have turned against the PRC. And Mexico has NAFTA. Mexico has a huge policy advantage. Logistics? It is much easier to drive a truck from Tijuana to LA than send a ship from Shanghai. Plus it can be from Tijuana to LA in hours.
Trucks and trains are faster and often cheaper.

And sure it will not happen overnight, but it is happening. The PRC is losing competitiveness.
Sure at first they will assemble things using components from the PRC, but then they start making the components. The shift will easily take a descale or more to complete, but it is beginning.

This is not the end, but it is the beginning of the end.

But sure we need to speed it up. That is why we need to increase tariffs more and more.

It's cheaper for you to go from Mexico to the United States than for China, but it's not cheap to go from Vietnam to the United States. Their port is too small. You can move the factory to Mexico. It should be said that this happened before the factory came to China

Their port is too small for now. Why do you assume things remain the same?
40 years ago Shanghai was a joke.

You think the Vietnamese are not aware? That only the PRC can expand a port?
https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/New-por ... al-gateway
The Vietnamese are not stupid. They know their strengths and weaknesses, and are correcting their weaknesses.

Again it will not happen overnight, but remember the PRC has only be economically relevant some 30 years. What the PRC built in a few decades other countries will build over in the next decades.

And as you concede Mexico does not need to worry, the border cities already directly connect to the US highway and rail networks. New factories will open in Mexico. The PRC will lose jobs to Mexico. And the pain the PRC inflicted on us, Mexico can inflict on the PRC. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Again the PRC will not collapse overnight, but the next decade will not be kind.
Times are changing. Some advantages the PRC has 10 years ago are already gone. And more will be gone in 10 years.

Again I expect the process will take a decade or so. But it is already beginning.

[Krasny-Volny]

As long as any dictatorship retains its monopoly on the use of force, it can survive indefinitely. The Red Chinese, North Koreans, and Cubans didn’t meet the same fate as their comrades in Afghanistan and Ethiopia because they have been successful at disarming the people, controlling the internal flow of weapons, and retaining that monopoly on force through the huge network of military, paramilitary, and internal security apparatus along with its giant Stasi esque informant superstructure.