NATION

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Fantastic creatures hypothetical

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Arkeyana
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Postby Arkeyana » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:02 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Vampires here will sicken and die if they don't regularly get large quantities of human blood.


Vampires where..?


He means the vampires outlined in the hypothetical, which cannot go without human blood for long periods of time.
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:05 pm

Arkeyana wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
Vampires where..?


He means the vampires outlined in the hypothetical, which cannot go without human blood for long periods of time.


Ah.. I, in no way, clicked the spoilers.
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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:14 pm

Sounds like high explosives will work on all four.
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:15 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:Sounds like high explosives will work on all four.

Quite well. Although I pity the fool who has to clean up fairy corpses.
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:17 pm

I imagine my Cave-brethren would handle vampires pretty well. We're armed to the teeth with wooden spears, and already occupy the only shelter from the sun.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:18 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:I imagine my Cave-brethren would handle vampires pretty well. We're armed to the teeth with wooden spears, and already occupy the only shelter from the sun.


Well given ya handled Dinosaurs and Mammoths...

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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:18 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:Sounds like high explosives will work on all four.


Yeah, no I read the spoilers I'm blasting all these things to hell.. frankly I don't know how humans made it given their existence. It takes an SUV and a cannon to kill werewolves for example, we just didn't have these things for much of history.

I'm sticking with my original answers in my original world.
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:21 pm

Nakena wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:I imagine my Cave-brethren would handle vampires pretty well. We're armed to the teeth with wooden spears, and already occupy the only shelter from the sun.


Well given ya handled Dinosaurs and Mammoths...

Well... only the kind with feathers.

But the great auk hunt of 46,000 BC was pretty epic.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:21 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:Sounds like high explosives will work on all four.

There is really no need, as even if some of these creatures pose a threat they are perfectly manageable without killing them, an example as per my post regarding the werewolves earlier.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:22 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Nakena wrote:
Well given ya handled Dinosaurs and Mammoths...

Well... only the kind with feathers.

But the great auk hunt of 46,000 BC was pretty epic.


We need Ug’s guidance.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:23 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:I imagine my Cave-brethren would handle vampires pretty well. We're armed to the teeth with wooden spears, and already occupy the only shelter from the sun.

I think punji walls around the cave entrances would be quite effective too.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:26 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:Well... only the kind with feathers.

But the great auk hunt of 46,000 BC was pretty epic.


We need Ug’s guidance.

Well dragons like treasure. So we told the dragon that there are diamonds the size of skyscrapers on Jupiter (and backed it up with an appropriately sophisticated cave-painting powerpoint), and off they flew to go get them.

They passed out as they flew into the high atmosphere, and then came crashing down back to earth with an effect similar to a mountain-sized bag of vegetable soup smashing down on the pavement.

We ate well that summer.
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Vetalia
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Postby Vetalia » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:26 pm

Vampires are pretty straightforward and predictable, and by all means law abiding to a fault...I don't know why you'd exterminate them but take a gamble with werewolves, i.e. someone who goes absolutely apeshit once every 29 days.
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:28 pm

Vetalia wrote:Vampires are pretty straightforward and predictable, and by all means law abiding to a fault...I don't know why you'd exterminate them but take a gamble with werewolves, i.e. someone who goes absolutely apeshit once every 29 days.

Mankind is already inoculated to this.
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Vetalia
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Postby Vetalia » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:32 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Vetalia wrote:Vampires are pretty straightforward and predictable, and by all means law abiding to a fault...I don't know why you'd exterminate them but take a gamble with werewolves, i.e. someone who goes absolutely apeshit once every 29 days.

Mankind is already inoculated to this.


A fair point, but Dracula IIRC only killed Lucy via blood draining...he offed the guys on that boat to the UK later in the novel but they weren't for that reason as far as I recall, and he never destroyed any property. As opposed to a werewolf going ape and smashing things.
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:34 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:Sounds like high explosives will work on all four.

There is really no need, as even if some of these creatures pose a threat they are perfectly manageable without killing them, an example as per my post regarding the werewolves earlier.

Werewolves honestly seem pretty containable when you know the limits of their capabilities.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:36 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Heloin wrote:The little folk who steal children in the night?


Do not step through the fairy circle!

Up the airy mountain,
Down the rushy glen,
We daren’t go a-hunting
For fear of little men;
Wee folk, good folk,
Trooping all together;
Green jacket, red cap,
And white owl’s feather.

By the craggy hillside,
Through the mosses bare,
They have planted thorn trees
For my pleasure, here and there.
Is any man so daring
As dig them up in spite,
He shall find their sharpest thorns
In his bed at night.
I hope you meet the rabbit with the feather in her hat, the penny whistle girl with the orange colored cap.
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Constaniana
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Postby Constaniana » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:57 pm

Heloin wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Do not step through the fairy circle!

Up the airy mountain,
Down the rushy glen,
We daren’t go a-hunting
For fear of little men;
/quote]
You're telling me they didn't make up those words just for this scene?
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:17 pm

Constaniana wrote:
Heloin wrote:Up the airy mountain,
Down the rushy glen,
We daren’t go a-hunting
For fear of little men;

You're telling me they didn't make up those words just for this scene?

It's an Irish poem by William Allingham called The Faeries.
I hope you meet the rabbit with the feather in her hat, the penny whistle girl with the orange colored cap.
Bells on her coat and a raggle taggle kind of grin, she'll teach you how to love if you believe in her


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Postby SuSouth Socialist Union » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:03 am

Aeritai wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:JoJo?


JoJo's Bizarre Adventure


Do you know? Stalin is also JOJO.His original name is not Stalin,is JOseph Vissarionovich JOgashvili.
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Postby SuSouth Socialist Union » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:20 am

Werewolves and vampires don't have enough panels to fear. The God of dice will protect me.Can you kill me in one round?Hahahaha
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Stanmenistan
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Postby Stanmenistan » Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:00 am

Diopolis wrote:So, fed up with discussing coronavirus, Donald Trump, and Donald Trump's coronavirus, I got to wondering how society should respond if various mythical creatures turn out to be real.
So, because we're stuck at home in quarantine, I came up with a bunch of mythical creatures for us to argue over how to respond to.
In the dio-verse, vampires are mumble resurrected corpses through mumble with the practical effect that they are completely sociopathic, with no conscience, and require regular infusions of human blood to sustain themselves, in large enough quantities that they can almost never get it without causing severe damage or death to the donor. Animal blood will not work.
Vampires can be weakened, but not seriously injured or killed, by sunlight, garlic, religious paraphernalia, and salt. The only way to kill them is decapitation, combustion, or a stake through the heart, or something which results in one of the three(eg, nuclear explosion). Unfortunately, all of these also kill humans. The only reliable ways to tell a vampire from a human is by either killing them(in which case the vampire will crumble into dust), or imprisoning them for a week and feeding them only human food(in which case the vampire will get extremely sick), although there are a few telltale signs.
Vampires do need an invitation to enter a private house, with the caveats that they can interpret anything as an invitation that they can convince themselves of, and that it only applies to private homes. Tents, RV's, and hotels do not apply. While a homeowner can take some common sense precautions to keep vampires out, he can't 100% guarantee there's nothing they'll be able to interpret as an invitation.
Oh, and a human-vampire straight fight will pretty much always end in the vampire eating said human. They're stronger, faster, can regenerate, and are smarter.

25 days out of the lunar cycle, werewolves are normal humans. The three days closest to the full moon however, the power of mumble transforms them into creatures not unlike a rabid bear. Except more aggressive and it actually seeks out people to murder, and a lot tougher. Police officers who've responded to loose werewolves estimate it takes a minimum of five 12 ga slugs to put down a werewolf. They've been known to bite through rebar and overturn SUV's.
While nocturnal during this time, werewolves are still dangerous during the day- they've been known to go on a rampage when disturbed in daylight hours(so exactly like nighttime).
There is no known way to remove the aggression from werewolves in their transformed form, and they are immune to most drugs and poisons, although not to conventional weaponry. As mentioned above, however, they require an amount of killing that's simply ridiculous. If contained securely before the transformation, werewolves will be relatively tame, but still don't get too close to the bars. They're not escape artists, but they are bad tempered and strong enough to overturn SUV's and bite through rebar, so containing them securely is an extreme challenge.
Unlike vampires, werewolves can be told apart when in human form- if their skin is sliced through, they will instantly grow hair on the other side around the cut. There are also a few signs of lycanthropy that can be observed in the typical untransformed werewolf, such as high body hair. However, for practical and humanitarian reasons, you can't test everyone who has a hairy chest.
People who survive werewolf attacks will inevitably become werewolves, but the survival rate of werewolf attacks is pretty low, and it takes several months to transform

Fairies in the dio-verse are the ones from classical folklore, not from victorian children's books. Fairies are vulnerable to iron, but it does cause permanent damage, and they can't enter a house without an invitation, but like vampires, they're often capable of figuring out how to get themselves one.
Fairies steal children, cause disease, abuse animals, and do a wide variety of other nasty things, although usually not with any immediate fatalities. Their victims usually go insane or die a few days to weeks later, instead. Those who don't suffer either fate are invariably left horribly traumatized.
To cap it off, they have no understanding of human morality, and are alien enough to be difficult to negotiate with. They do, however, have a code. It's just that no one understands it, or has figured out any way to use it to protect themselves.
Fairies have a political leadership under their king and queen, who can be negotiated with, although it's not usually advised because they're too alien for meaningful dialogue.

Dragons are classic charismatic megafauna. In the dio-verse, they're obligate carnivores similar to any other apex predator, except for whatever examples of mumble are necessary for things like flying and breathing fire. Their size- like flying whales- and high metabolism requires them to have massive territories, and they usually nest in remote areas. Usually. A juvenile male once set up on top of the empire state building.
Dragonfire has an effective range of 40 feet, and can't melt steel or copper, but can melt lead. Most of a dragon's body is bulletproof, except for a handful of soft spots on their bodies, of which the easiest to hit is located in each armpit. They also require elephant gun caliber as the minimum for killing. Due to these soft spots, dragons hoard hard objects to bed down on, which get stuck over them and serve as a form of armor. Removing anything from a dragon's hoard is extremely dangerous, and, if successful, will invariably result in a rampage over any inhabited areas within range. "Within range" can be a huge area, here. A dragon nesting in southern Greenland once set most of Halifax on fire after a ring went missing.
There are two other main dangers to people from dragon inhabitation- hunting, and mating fights.
Dragons hunt exclusively large game, and except for younger specimens usually won't bother with something the size of a person. But, they have been known to kill off ranch employees raiding cattle ranches, especially mothers with their young, who often need the extra sustenance. They also occasionally start wildfires attempting to corral game animals such as bison, wild horses, or reindeer.
Dragons fight over mating rights, and these fights cause massive collateral damage. Most occur in relatively remote areas, but not all of them- Reykjavik hosts a tourist trade in watching dragons fight northeast of the city.
Finally, as every part of a dragon's body is extremely valuable, there are a few hundred very brave individuals who die every year trying to kill one and sell its parts. This is not seen as much of a tragedy except by their families or anyone who sold them life insurance, and is generally avoidable by the simple medium of not getting into a fight with something that can prey on a fully grown African elephant.

So, NSG, how should society deal with these creatures if they exist?
My opinion is that it's a pretty clear cut exterminate for the vampires. For werewolves, I'd require them to be registered with the police department with a plan in place for the full moon, and pretty severe consequences for any issues. Testing someone should definitely require probable cause, and I'd say that loose transformed werewolves should be shot onsite.
Fairies and dragons are more complicated. In my view governments should attempt a containment strategy where we negotiate with fairy king and queen to try to keep them out of our territory entirely- they're too shifty and alien to let them in under any sort of condition.
As for dragons, I'd pursue a policy of containment. Push them to distant areas, where they won't range into densely populated regions on hunting flights, and make it illegal for the average citizen to interact with or even go near them. Dragons nesting in places like NYC should be killed though, probably by bringing in the military.

I thought a Werewolf Apocalypse stories could have some allegorical parallels to the current pandemic. People would be forced to stay indoors and isolated to prevent the infected from spreading disease and to prevent the risk of uninfected people catching the disease. How the lycanthropy virus mutates could parallel the development of werewolves in modern Pop Culture (from only transforming under the full moon, to transforming every night, to transforming whenever angered).
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SuSouth Socialist Union
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Postby SuSouth Socialist Union » Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:37 am

My favorite fantasy creature is Skaven Faction. And they spread the disease(yes,yes!)And Tauren.
At the end of last century, many new fantasy creatures were developed. I think they more represent a special trend of thought.Just like the word zombie in the cold war is more often associated with communism, which means brainwashing, control and so on.Now fantasy biology is more about entertainment and anarchism.It may not be good to default them to evil camp.Beacause I'm still looking forward to the underground werewolf boxer, zombie SS or dragon capitalist.Can werewolves be classified as "furry"?
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:10 am

Stanmenistan wrote:
Diopolis wrote:So, fed up with discussing coronavirus, Donald Trump, and Donald Trump's coronavirus, I got to wondering how society should respond if various mythical creatures turn out to be real.
So, because we're stuck at home in quarantine, I came up with a bunch of mythical creatures for us to argue over how to respond to.
In the dio-verse, vampires are mumble resurrected corpses through mumble with the practical effect that they are completely sociopathic, with no conscience, and require regular infusions of human blood to sustain themselves, in large enough quantities that they can almost never get it without causing severe damage or death to the donor. Animal blood will not work.
Vampires can be weakened, but not seriously injured or killed, by sunlight, garlic, religious paraphernalia, and salt. The only way to kill them is decapitation, combustion, or a stake through the heart, or something which results in one of the three(eg, nuclear explosion). Unfortunately, all of these also kill humans. The only reliable ways to tell a vampire from a human is by either killing them(in which case the vampire will crumble into dust), or imprisoning them for a week and feeding them only human food(in which case the vampire will get extremely sick), although there are a few telltale signs.
Vampires do need an invitation to enter a private house, with the caveats that they can interpret anything as an invitation that they can convince themselves of, and that it only applies to private homes. Tents, RV's, and hotels do not apply. While a homeowner can take some common sense precautions to keep vampires out, he can't 100% guarantee there's nothing they'll be able to interpret as an invitation.
Oh, and a human-vampire straight fight will pretty much always end in the vampire eating said human. They're stronger, faster, can regenerate, and are smarter.

25 days out of the lunar cycle, werewolves are normal humans. The three days closest to the full moon however, the power of mumble transforms them into creatures not unlike a rabid bear. Except more aggressive and it actually seeks out people to murder, and a lot tougher. Police officers who've responded to loose werewolves estimate it takes a minimum of five 12 ga slugs to put down a werewolf. They've been known to bite through rebar and overturn SUV's.
While nocturnal during this time, werewolves are still dangerous during the day- they've been known to go on a rampage when disturbed in daylight hours(so exactly like nighttime).
There is no known way to remove the aggression from werewolves in their transformed form, and they are immune to most drugs and poisons, although not to conventional weaponry. As mentioned above, however, they require an amount of killing that's simply ridiculous. If contained securely before the transformation, werewolves will be relatively tame, but still don't get too close to the bars. They're not escape artists, but they are bad tempered and strong enough to overturn SUV's and bite through rebar, so containing them securely is an extreme challenge.
Unlike vampires, werewolves can be told apart when in human form- if their skin is sliced through, they will instantly grow hair on the other side around the cut. There are also a few signs of lycanthropy that can be observed in the typical untransformed werewolf, such as high body hair. However, for practical and humanitarian reasons, you can't test everyone who has a hairy chest.
People who survive werewolf attacks will inevitably become werewolves, but the survival rate of werewolf attacks is pretty low, and it takes several months to transform

Fairies in the dio-verse are the ones from classical folklore, not from victorian children's books. Fairies are vulnerable to iron, but it does cause permanent damage, and they can't enter a house without an invitation, but like vampires, they're often capable of figuring out how to get themselves one.
Fairies steal children, cause disease, abuse animals, and do a wide variety of other nasty things, although usually not with any immediate fatalities. Their victims usually go insane or die a few days to weeks later, instead. Those who don't suffer either fate are invariably left horribly traumatized.
To cap it off, they have no understanding of human morality, and are alien enough to be difficult to negotiate with. They do, however, have a code. It's just that no one understands it, or has figured out any way to use it to protect themselves.
Fairies have a political leadership under their king and queen, who can be negotiated with, although it's not usually advised because they're too alien for meaningful dialogue.

Dragons are classic charismatic megafauna. In the dio-verse, they're obligate carnivores similar to any other apex predator, except for whatever examples of mumble are necessary for things like flying and breathing fire. Their size- like flying whales- and high metabolism requires them to have massive territories, and they usually nest in remote areas. Usually. A juvenile male once set up on top of the empire state building.
Dragonfire has an effective range of 40 feet, and can't melt steel or copper, but can melt lead. Most of a dragon's body is bulletproof, except for a handful of soft spots on their bodies, of which the easiest to hit is located in each armpit. They also require elephant gun caliber as the minimum for killing. Due to these soft spots, dragons hoard hard objects to bed down on, which get stuck over them and serve as a form of armor. Removing anything from a dragon's hoard is extremely dangerous, and, if successful, will invariably result in a rampage over any inhabited areas within range. "Within range" can be a huge area, here. A dragon nesting in southern Greenland once set most of Halifax on fire after a ring went missing.
There are two other main dangers to people from dragon inhabitation- hunting, and mating fights.
Dragons hunt exclusively large game, and except for younger specimens usually won't bother with something the size of a person. But, they have been known to kill off ranch employees raiding cattle ranches, especially mothers with their young, who often need the extra sustenance. They also occasionally start wildfires attempting to corral game animals such as bison, wild horses, or reindeer.
Dragons fight over mating rights, and these fights cause massive collateral damage. Most occur in relatively remote areas, but not all of them- Reykjavik hosts a tourist trade in watching dragons fight northeast of the city.
Finally, as every part of a dragon's body is extremely valuable, there are a few hundred very brave individuals who die every year trying to kill one and sell its parts. This is not seen as much of a tragedy except by their families or anyone who sold them life insurance, and is generally avoidable by the simple medium of not getting into a fight with something that can prey on a fully grown African elephant.

So, NSG, how should society deal with these creatures if they exist?
My opinion is that it's a pretty clear cut exterminate for the vampires. For werewolves, I'd require them to be registered with the police department with a plan in place for the full moon, and pretty severe consequences for any issues. Testing someone should definitely require probable cause, and I'd say that loose transformed werewolves should be shot onsite.
Fairies and dragons are more complicated. In my view governments should attempt a containment strategy where we negotiate with fairy king and queen to try to keep them out of our territory entirely- they're too shifty and alien to let them in under any sort of condition.
As for dragons, I'd pursue a policy of containment. Push them to distant areas, where they won't range into densely populated regions on hunting flights, and make it illegal for the average citizen to interact with or even go near them. Dragons nesting in places like NYC should be killed though, probably by bringing in the military.

I thought a Werewolf Apocalypse stories could have some allegorical parallels to the current pandemic. People would be forced to stay indoors and isolated to prevent the infected from spreading disease and to prevent the risk of uninfected people catching the disease. How the lycanthropy virus mutates could parallel the development of werewolves in modern Pop Culture (from only transforming under the full moon, to transforming every night, to transforming whenever angered).

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:23 am

Tbh the only creature that would be particularly disturbing from the list from my perspective is the vampire. The dangers posed by some of the others are fairly on the nose in terms of how blatant they are, but vampires have an insidiousness about them. I would likely even be friends with people who I knew were werewolves, as I'd know that when I see them in their human form they have full control of themselves, and have a predictable cycle of when they are dangerous. Vampires on the other hand would just be potentially dangerous all the time.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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