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The Kims: East Asian Lucretia & Cesare?

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SangMar
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Postby SangMar » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:57 am

Baltenstein wrote:
Nemohsis wrote:
Unified Korea would be great economically long term, terrible short term. SK needs more ppl, and I'd love to see us unified (Im a south korean). Hopefully we can pull off another miracle reconstruction like after Korean War.


Unifying Korea would be ten times the challenge the re-unification of Germany was, truth be told.


Exactly, besides the South suddenly having to deal with a population that’s half the size of its own populace, many of these people with be hungry, lacking skills vital to a modern economy, or for lack of a better term, brainwashed. Not to mention the fact that NK wouldn’t magically stabilise overnight following reunification, and of course the elephant in the room: China.

Yeah. I don’t even them at all, East and West Germany was a cakewalk in comparison.
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While my sig is mostly jest, and I do not want to harm those who are tankies, let me say this: If you’re the type to talk about “fash” or “bashing the fash” yet refuse to criticise the crimes of Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao, then you need to take a long, hard fucking look at yourself. Because you ARE the thing you want to “bash”, even if you dress it up in a different skin.

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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:00 am

SangMar wrote:
Baltenstein wrote:
Unifying Korea would be ten times the challenge the re-unification of Germany was, truth be told.


Exactly, besides the South suddenly having to deal with a population that’s half the size of its own populace, many of these people with be hungry, lacking skills vital to a modern economy, or for lack of a better term, brainwashed. Not to mention the fact that NK wouldn’t magically stabilise overnight following reunification, and of course the elephant in the room: China.

Yeah. I don’t even them at all, East and West Germany was a cakewalk in comparison.


It may be better if it was a military administration zone of South Korea before unification could happen.

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Bromagia
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Postby Bromagia » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:03 am

SangMar wrote:
Baltenstein wrote:
Unifying Korea would be ten times the challenge the re-unification of Germany was, truth be told.


Exactly, besides the South suddenly having to deal with a population that’s half the size of its own populace, many of these people with be hungry, lacking skills vital to a modern economy, or for lack of a better term, brainwashed. Not to mention the fact that NK wouldn’t magically stabilise overnight following reunification, and of course the elephant in the room: China.

Yeah. I don’t even them at all, East and West Germany was a cakewalk in comparison.

Which is why we (US and allies) shouldn't try to help reunify. If NK collapses we should help SK hold the line against mobs of refugees and rogue military units. Let China fall into that quagmire.
I'm finished with this forum and the constant goddamn groupthink, virtue signalling, and woke scolding. I thank Max for the good times I've spent here but I just don't fit anymore. Peace.

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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:07 am

Bromagia wrote:
SangMar wrote:
Exactly, besides the South suddenly having to deal with a population that’s half the size of its own populace, many of these people with be hungry, lacking skills vital to a modern economy, or for lack of a better term, brainwashed. Not to mention the fact that NK wouldn’t magically stabilise overnight following reunification, and of course the elephant in the room: China.

Yeah. I don’t even them at all, East and West Germany was a cakewalk in comparison.

Which is why we (US and allies) shouldn't try to help reunify. If NK collapses we should help SK hold the line against mobs of refugees and rogue military units. Let China fall into that quagmire.

And then assume China won't occupy North Korea by invitation or under pretense, annexing it as a new province.
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SangMar
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Postby SangMar » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:20 am

Gormwood wrote:
Bromagia wrote:Which is why we (US and allies) shouldn't try to help reunify. If NK collapses we should help SK hold the line against mobs of refugees and rogue military units. Let China fall into that quagmire.

And then assume China won't occupy North Korea by invitation or under pretense, annexing it as a new province.


Which I’m sure would turn just great. Having the world’s next superpower on their doorstep.
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https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2?ec=-4.88&soc=-4.31

While my sig is mostly jest, and I do not want to harm those who are tankies, let me say this: If you’re the type to talk about “fash” or “bashing the fash” yet refuse to criticise the crimes of Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao, then you need to take a long, hard fucking look at yourself. Because you ARE the thing you want to “bash”, even if you dress it up in a different skin.

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Bromagia
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Postby Bromagia » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:24 am

Gormwood wrote:
Bromagia wrote:Which is why we (US and allies) shouldn't try to help reunify. If NK collapses we should help SK hold the line against mobs of refugees and rogue military units. Let China fall into that quagmire.

And then assume China won't occupy North Korea by invitation or under pretense, annexing it as a new province.

You underestimate the racism and self superiority of North Koreans, I see. A guerilla war in NK would make Afghanistan look like simple peacekeeping. I don't see any reason to believe they'd go "Oh, China. Of course we will totally join your Han-supremacist state without a struggle and become second class citizens. Ethnic cleansing sounds fun!"

Even assuming that were the case...why should we be playing policeman? Everytime we do we get shit on and make new enemies. In fact, aren't you more than happy to trash talk...pretty much anything the US does? Odd that you think our intervention is okay now.
I'm finished with this forum and the constant goddamn groupthink, virtue signalling, and woke scolding. I thank Max for the good times I've spent here but I just don't fit anymore. Peace.

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Bromagia
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Postby Bromagia » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:28 am

SangMar wrote:
Gormwood wrote:And then assume China won't occupy North Korea by invitation or under pretense, annexing it as a new province.


Which I’m sure would turn just great. Having the world’s next superpower on their doorstep.

I'm sure Koreans would invite ethnic cleasing without a struggle. :roll:

All those weapons are just going to be surrendered without incident. I mean, it's not like NK has decades of self sufficient ideology embedded in the culture or anything.
I'm finished with this forum and the constant goddamn groupthink, virtue signalling, and woke scolding. I thank Max for the good times I've spent here but I just don't fit anymore. Peace.

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The Socialist Union of Russia
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Socialist Union of Russia » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:28 am

Kargintina the Third wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/20/politics/kim-jong-un-north-korea/index.html

The US is monitoring intelligence that North Korea's leader, Kim Jong Un, is in grave danger after a surgery, according to a US official with direct knowledge.

Kim recently missed the celebration of his grandfather's birthday on April 15, which raised speculation about his well-being. He had been seen four days before that at a government meeting.

CNN has reached out to the CIA, National Security Council and the State Department for comment. CNN has also sought comment from the South Koreans.

Gathering intelligence out of North Korea is notoriously difficult -- one of the most challenging targets for US intelligence.

North Korea tightly controls any information surrounding its leader, who is treated almost like a deity within the country. His absences from official state media often spark speculation and rumors about his health.

North Korea has no free press and is often a black hole when it comes to the country's leadership. Analysts are heavily reliant on scanning state media dispatches and watching propaganda videos for any semblance of a clue.

Kim last appeared in North Korean state media on April 11. April 15 -- North Korea's most important holiday, the anniversary of the birth of the country's founding father, Kim Il Sung -- came and went without any official mention of Kim Jong Un's movements.


This is quite concerning. If Kim was to die and one of his Generals takes power it could be an issue. A destabilized state with nuclear weapons in the wild for the taking could result in disaster. I don’t hold Kim in a particularly good light but I realize the negative consequences his death could have. It is unknown who his successor is.


I agree that Kims death is a bad thing but knowing the USA they'll probably get some Korean loyal to America to be put in charge

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Ethel mermania
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:51 am

Bromagia wrote:
SangMar wrote:
Exactly, besides the South suddenly having to deal with a population that’s half the size of its own populace, many of these people with be hungry, lacking skills vital to a modern economy, or for lack of a better term, brainwashed. Not to mention the fact that NK wouldn’t magically stabilise overnight following reunification, and of course the elephant in the room: China.

Yeah. I don’t even them at all, East and West Germany was a cakewalk in comparison.

Which is why we (US and allies) shouldn't try to help reunify. If NK collapses we should help SK hold the line against mobs of refugees and rogue military units. Let China fall into that quagmire.

Nah, SK would be willing to do it, and if the price is getting the US out of the unified korea, it's a decent price for the US to pay to get rid of the kim dynasty.
Last edited by Ethel mermania on Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:57 am

Bromagia wrote:
Gormwood wrote:And then assume China won't occupy North Korea by invitation or under pretense, annexing it as a new province.

You underestimate the racism and self superiority of North Koreans, I see. A guerilla war in NK would make Afghanistan look like simple peacekeeping. I don't see any reason to believe they'd go "Oh, China. Of course we will totally join your Han-supremacist state without a struggle and become second class citizens. Ethnic cleansing sounds fun!"

Even assuming that were the case...why should we be playing policeman? Everytime we do we get shit on and make new enemies. In fact, aren't you more than happy to trash talk...pretty much anything the US does? Odd that you think our intervention is okay now.

A guerilla insurgency from a perpetually oppressed and malnourished populace? Seriously?
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:58 am

Gormwood wrote:
Bromagia wrote:You underestimate the racism and self superiority of North Koreans, I see. A guerilla war in NK would make Afghanistan look like simple peacekeeping. I don't see any reason to believe they'd go "Oh, China. Of course we will totally join your Han-supremacist state without a struggle and become second class citizens. Ethnic cleansing sounds fun!"

Even assuming that were the case...why should we be playing policeman? Everytime we do we get shit on and make new enemies. In fact, aren't you more than happy to trash talk...pretty much anything the US does? Odd that you think our intervention is okay now.

A guerilla insurgency from a perpetually oppressed and malnourished populace? Seriously?

Yeah, when has that ever happened before haha

unrelated but i gotta go, let me just book this flight to kandahar, a peaceful and delightful vacation spot
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:00 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Bromagia wrote:You underestimate the racism and self superiority of North Koreans, I see. A guerilla war in NK would make Afghanistan look like simple peacekeeping. I don't see any reason to believe they'd go "Oh, China. Of course we will totally join your Han-supremacist state without a struggle and become second class citizens. Ethnic cleansing sounds fun!"

Even assuming that were the case...why should we be playing policeman? Everytime we do we get shit on and make new enemies. In fact, aren't you more than happy to trash talk...pretty much anything the US does? Odd that you think our intervention is okay now.

A guerilla insurgency from a perpetually oppressed and malnourished populace? Seriously?

Dont underestimate ideological and brainwashed fanatics. Plenty of people have went to war when starving and worse.
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Pilipinas and Malaya
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Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:01 pm

Baltenstein wrote:
Nemohsis wrote:
Unified Korea would be great economically long term, terrible short term. SK needs more ppl, and I'd love to see us unified (Im a south korean). Hopefully we can pull off another miracle reconstruction like after Korean War.


Unifying Korea would be ten times the challenge the re-unification of Germany was, truth be told.


At least both sides want reunification. That's a good start.
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Violent Mike
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Postby Violent Mike » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:03 pm

Aeritai wrote:
Genivaria wrote:The response of fawning over a brutal dictator is fucking cringy.


Just wait it's going to get worst, once fanfiction start getting made about her.

I know just the artist :^)

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SangMar
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby SangMar » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:12 pm

Violent Mike wrote:
Aeritai wrote:
Just wait it's going to get worst, once fanfiction start getting made about her.

I know just the artist :^)


Ooh arr.
On Nationstates since 2012.
Here - this is my political orientation, for anyone who wishes to know: https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=75.0&d=45.6&g=60.3&s=81.6

https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2?ec=-4.88&soc=-4.31

While my sig is mostly jest, and I do not want to harm those who are tankies, let me say this: If you’re the type to talk about “fash” or “bashing the fash” yet refuse to criticise the crimes of Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao, then you need to take a long, hard fucking look at yourself. Because you ARE the thing you want to “bash”, even if you dress it up in a different skin.

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Bromagia
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Postby Bromagia » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:25 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Bromagia wrote:Which is why we (US and allies) shouldn't try to help reunify. If NK collapses we should help SK hold the line against mobs of refugees and rogue military units. Let China fall into that quagmire.

Nah, SK would be willing to do it, and if the price is getting the US out of the unified korea, it's a decent price for the US to pay to get rid of the kim dynasty.

Nah. Another forever war and new groups of terrorists attacking us doesn't seem like a win.
I'm finished with this forum and the constant goddamn groupthink, virtue signalling, and woke scolding. I thank Max for the good times I've spent here but I just don't fit anymore. Peace.

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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:26 pm

Bromagia wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Nah, SK would be willing to do it, and if the price is getting the US out of the unified korea, it's a decent price for the US to pay to get rid of the kim dynasty.

Nah. Another forever war and new groups of terrorists attacking us doesn't seem like a win.

Ok, but what if those terrorists had access to the North's leftover nuclear weapons? That sounds like quite a party to me
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Bromagia
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Postby Bromagia » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:27 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Bromagia wrote:You underestimate the racism and self superiority of North Koreans, I see. A guerilla war in NK would make Afghanistan look like simple peacekeeping. I don't see any reason to believe they'd go "Oh, China. Of course we will totally join your Han-supremacist state without a struggle and become second class citizens. Ethnic cleansing sounds fun!"

Even assuming that were the case...why should we be playing policeman? Everytime we do we get shit on and make new enemies. In fact, aren't you more than happy to trash talk...pretty much anything the US does? Odd that you think our intervention is okay now.

A guerilla insurgency from a perpetually oppressed and malnourished populace? Seriously?

"They just want liberation and Democracy! Hearts and minds!" :roll:

Gosh, that sounds familiar.
Last edited by Bromagia on Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm finished with this forum and the constant goddamn groupthink, virtue signalling, and woke scolding. I thank Max for the good times I've spent here but I just don't fit anymore. Peace.

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Bromagia
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Postby Bromagia » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:35 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Bromagia wrote:Nah. Another forever war and new groups of terrorists attacking us doesn't seem like a win.

Ok, but what if those terrorists had access to the North's leftover nuclear weapons? That sounds like quite a party to me

Indeed it does. Seems like all the more reason not to get involved. Or are we back to "the US should sacrifice their people for the greater good only to be hated and demeaned"?
I'm finished with this forum and the constant goddamn groupthink, virtue signalling, and woke scolding. I thank Max for the good times I've spent here but I just don't fit anymore. Peace.

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Celritannia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:35 pm


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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:38 pm

Celritannia wrote:Well then...


I know I was making such jokes before, but still.

This is the worst timeline.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:39 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Celritannia wrote:Well then...


I know I was making such jokes before, but still.

This is the worst timeline.

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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:40 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Bromagia wrote:You underestimate the racism and self superiority of North Koreans, I see. A guerilla war in NK would make Afghanistan look like simple peacekeeping. I don't see any reason to believe they'd go "Oh, China. Of course we will totally join your Han-supremacist state without a struggle and become second class citizens. Ethnic cleansing sounds fun!"

Even assuming that were the case...why should we be playing policeman? Everytime we do we get shit on and make new enemies. In fact, aren't you more than happy to trash talk...pretty much anything the US does? Odd that you think our intervention is okay now.

A guerilla insurgency from a perpetually oppressed and malnourished populace? Seriously?

It is not impossible. Many North Koreans would be willing to fight and the NK military still exists and would probably support resistance against an occupation. If someone tried to occupy North Korea I could see their being an insurgency.
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SangMar
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Postby SangMar » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:40 pm

Celritannia wrote:Well then...


Celritannia, I demand you cease this unholy conduct immediately. I forbid it, damn it!

Also, can I get out a shout to the many doujin artists who are now prowling my waking nightmares? Once again, thanks Celritannia.
On Nationstates since 2012.
Here - this is my political orientation, for anyone who wishes to know: https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=75.0&d=45.6&g=60.3&s=81.6

https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2?ec=-4.88&soc=-4.31

While my sig is mostly jest, and I do not want to harm those who are tankies, let me say this: If you’re the type to talk about “fash” or “bashing the fash” yet refuse to criticise the crimes of Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao, then you need to take a long, hard fucking look at yourself. Because you ARE the thing you want to “bash”, even if you dress it up in a different skin.

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SangMar
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby SangMar » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:41 pm

Bromagia wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Ok, but what if those terrorists had access to the North's leftover nuclear weapons? That sounds like quite a party to me

Indeed it does. Seems like all the more reason not to get involved. Or are we back to "the US should sacrifice their people for the greater good only to be hated and demeaned"?


Can we just leave North Korea to the auspices of the UN, please?
On Nationstates since 2012.
Here - this is my political orientation, for anyone who wishes to know: https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=75.0&d=45.6&g=60.3&s=81.6

https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2?ec=-4.88&soc=-4.31

While my sig is mostly jest, and I do not want to harm those who are tankies, let me say this: If you’re the type to talk about “fash” or “bashing the fash” yet refuse to criticise the crimes of Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao, then you need to take a long, hard fucking look at yourself. Because you ARE the thing you want to “bash”, even if you dress it up in a different skin.

Nationstates’ Favourite Unknown and Autistic Tankie Eliminator!

B E G O N E T A N K I E DEGENERATE

Protip: Tankies =/= all communists.

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