RWDT XX: The System Is Kapp Putsch

[Dumb Ideologies]

Looking forward I reckon there'll be very concerted attempts to exploit this cultural moment and a deepening of attempts by certain parties to define any opposition to liberal capitalism as racist dogwhistling. Similarly I think the usual suspects will be circling to radicalise the people who get wrongly jumped on.

Stay safe, stay smart, stick to your principles and don't let yourself be dragged into spreading someone else's message.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Yeah, but this could have been prevented in the first place if we had a president who was actually committed to reform and oversight of police departments across the nation.

What if I told you daddy Fed doesn't have to do everything. Examine local police departments, scrutinize their training procedures, find what the agreement is between police unions and municipalities, elect and hold to account local politicians, find ways to foster positive police-citizen relations, hash out ways to increase transparency, or just do something productive. Things on the local and state level can get done, there is no need to wait around for Washington to get moving and no one should wait for Washington to attempt a ham fisted way in fixing this.

Seriously all the posters online who virtue signal slogans and the like and do not get off their rear end to get something done in their local communities are insufferable. Watch once this fades out of the news cycle all those so called supporters and concerned citizens will disappear until the next tragedy occurs, rinse and repeat and rinse and repeat over and over again. It's how this always works and no amount of feel good platitudes or internet outrage will ever fix anything, especially with how fickle the modern, perhaps just human, attention span is.

Now a shift to the protesters, the actual ones not the rioters, someone needs to actually organize them and direct them towards some sort of concrete policy or goal, policy's need to be targeted for implementation or revocation. Right now it just seems many of the protests are directionless making all that energy go all over the place and in the grand scheme things useless. No unified voice in regards to a possible solution. It needs to actually be harnessed and directed in a productive manner. Picketing and standard protests can accomplish some things yes, such as pressuring the local government to fire and charge the officer finally, but without a structured, organized, disciplined, and principled form of protest that has a specific target you are for all intents and purposes screaming to the sky and the powers that be won't pay to much attention. Example a phalanx or a shield wall can not be broken by a mob rush, does not end well unless you have Soviet level human waves.

Not meaning to lash out at you, I've just been seeing this over and over again and just needed to get it out there.

What if I told you there was another option?

That it was called police abolition?

[Taihei Tengoku]

The police are fine. If you are above a certain (very attainable) threshold you will only interact with them if you break the speed limit. The real question is whether the institution of the police will continue to be held by hill tribes loyal to 1980 America or by progressives who want to make it loyal to the left spiral only

[Novus America]

What if I told you daddy Fed doesn't have to do everything. Examine local police departments, scrutinize their training procedures, find what the agreement is between police unions and municipalities, elect and hold to account local politicians, find ways to foster positive police-citizen relations, hash out ways to increase transparency, or just do something productive. Things on the local and state level can get done, there is no need to wait around for Washington to get moving and no one should wait for Washington to attempt a ham fisted way in fixing this.

Seriously all the posters online who virtue signal slogans and the like and do not get off their rear end to get something done in their local communities are insufferable. Watch once this fades out of the news cycle all those so called supporters and concerned citizens will disappear until the next tragedy occurs, rinse and repeat and rinse and repeat over and over again. It's how this always works and no amount of feel good platitudes or internet outrage will ever fix anything, especially with how fickle the modern, perhaps just human, attention span is.

Now a shift to the protesters, the actual ones not the rioters, someone needs to actually organize them and direct them towards some sort of concrete policy or goal, policy's need to be targeted for implementation or revocation. Right now it just seems many of the protests are directionless making all that energy go all over the place and in the grand scheme things useless. No unified voice in regards to a possible solution. It needs to actually be harnessed and directed in a productive manner. Picketing and standard protests can accomplish some things yes, such as pressuring the local government to fire and charge the officer finally, but without a structured, organized, disciplined, and principled form of protest that has a specific target you are for all intents and purposes screaming to the sky and the powers that be won't pay to much attention. Example a phalanx or a shield wall can not be broken by a mob rush, does not end well unless you have Soviet level human waves.

Not meaning to lash out at you, I've just been seeing this over and over again and just needed to get it out there.

What if I told you there was another option?

That it was called police abolition?

This is a matter of goals. You want chaos and destruction.
Police abolition solves nothing, as it would just give control to local vigilante militias and criminal organizations which would be less accountable and more abusive.
We have been over this.

An idea driven solely by extreme ideology over any practical consideration is usually not a good one.

[Joohan]

This. I've seen a lot of people start quoting the JFK bit about peaceful revolution in justifying the violence. I know being the bigger man suck's huge, but, the point of being the bigger man isn't about making life easier, it's about doing the right thing.

No one benefits from this

It's not really justifying it more so pointing out that it is inevitable; they are right. Why so many of my fellow right-wingers seem to have lost this is pretty bewildering. America's elites abandoned America and America's policing institution is rotten and routinely tramples and abuses the citizenry and their rights. They, and a lot of America's elites, have been tearing away at the social fabric of society which is why things have now reached this point.

I agree that America's elites have indeed abandoned any patriotic values for cosmopolitanism - but that is not at all shown in the police force. A case might be made for departments such as the FBI or Homeland Security, but not for municipal police departments, which are largely ( if not usually ) wholly local entities. If your local police department has a problem, then the problem must be fixed at the local level, not the national one. Likewise, burning down some dude's liquor store and beating him to death on the street doesn't help that any...

Peaceful revolution is possible, and has worked tremendously in this country's past. Violent revolutions, on the other hand, have usually triggered violent reactions.

[Nakena]

Violent revolutions, on the other hand, have usually triggered violent reactions.

Right to the 31th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square crackdown may come the american sequel.

Live on TV and with way better footage.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It's not really justifying it more so pointing out that it is inevitable; they are right. Why so many of my fellow right-wingers seem to have lost this is pretty bewildering. America's elites abandoned America and America's policing institution is rotten and routinely tramples and abuses the citizenry and their rights. They, and a lot of America's elites, have been tearing away at the social fabric of society which is why things have now reached this point.

I agree that America's elites have indeed abandoned any patriotic values for cosmopolitanism - but that is not at all shown in the police force. A case might be made for departments such as the FBI or Homeland Security, but not for municipal police departments, which are largely ( if not usually ) wholly local entities. If your local police department has a problem, then the problem must be fixed at the local level, not the national one. Likewise, burning down some dude's liquor store and beating him to death on the street doesn't help that any...

Peaceful revolution is possible, and has worked tremendously in this country's past. Violent revolutions, on the other hand, have usually triggered violent reactions.

All revolution must have at least the threat of violence behind it, or it will fail. Governments only occasionally give into peaceful protests when popular outrage is such that refusal to do so could trigger violence.

[Joohan]

I agree that America's elites have indeed abandoned any patriotic values for cosmopolitanism - but that is not at all shown in the police force. A case might be made for departments such as the FBI or Homeland Security, but not for municipal police departments, which are largely ( if not usually ) wholly local entities. If your local police department has a problem, then the problem must be fixed at the local level, not the national one. Likewise, burning down some dude's liquor store and beating him to death on the street doesn't help that any...

Peaceful revolution is possible, and has worked tremendously in this country's past. Violent revolutions, on the other hand, have usually triggered violent reactions.

All revolution must have at least the threat of violence behind it, or it will fail. Governments only occasionally give into peaceful protests when popular outrage is such that refusal to do so could trigger violence.

They've moved well past the point of merely threatening violence.

[United Muscovite Nations]

All revolution must have at least the threat of violence behind it, or it will fail. Governments only occasionally give into peaceful protests when popular outrage is such that refusal to do so could trigger violence.

They've moved well past the point of merely threatening violence.

Well yeah, peaceful protest hasn't worked the other dozen times it's been tried in the past 10 years.

[The Marlborough]

It's not really justifying it more so pointing out that it is inevitable; they are right. Why so many of my fellow right-wingers seem to have lost this is pretty bewildering. America's elites abandoned America and America's policing institution is rotten and routinely tramples and abuses the citizenry and their rights. They, and a lot of America's elites, have been tearing away at the social fabric of society which is why things have now reached this point.

I agree that America's elites have indeed abandoned any patriotic values for cosmopolitanism - but that is not at all shown in the police force. A case might be made for departments such as the FBI or Homeland Security, but not for municipal police departments, which are largely ( if not usually ) wholly local entities. If your local police department has a problem, then the problem must be fixed at the local level, not the national one. Likewise, burning down some dude's liquor store and beating him to death on the street doesn't help that any...

Peaceful revolution is possible, and has worked tremendously in this country's past. Violent revolutions, on the other hand, have usually triggered violent reactions.

On the contrary, it is a massive issue at the local issue. When you actually look into how many cases of abuse, corruption, and murder there are it is quite shocking. Furthermore, very rarely are officers held to account and even when they are, usually they are treated leniently. This is one of many examples where unarmed civilians have been gunned down needlessly and the police officers involved treated leniently. If it was just one or two police departments, there would be a foundation to your claim - but it is not. It is a problem in large cities and small rural areas. Cops who are dismissed for abuses rarely are forbidden from being unable to be a police officer elsewhere - often they will find a job in some small desperate department where it is even harder to hold them accountable. When the problem is this pervasive across the nation, it needs to be fixed together. That is not to say that the federal government needs to hold everyone's hand but local, state, and federal officials need to work together to investigate how to reform the system and implement better laws and guidelines. A starter would be some of the suggestions I made, implementing citizen review boards that have the power to investigate claims of abuse as well as dismantling the police unions, as the latter have shown themselves to be woefully incapable of handing over blatant cases of abuse and murder; even now the MPD's union head is claiming that the officers are not really that bad and should be given leniency. This is but one example of such a problem.

Yes it is possible, but if it does not succeed then it will result in an attempt at violent revolution - the founding of your country is testament to that. Many changes have been brought by both peaceful and violent disobedience but in the cases of the peaceful ones there was always the acknowledgement that if nothing was done it could turn violent. Never has a movement ever been fully peaceful or promising that it can avoid violence. Even MLK Jr acknowledged that while the path of peace was the best and most righteous, violence would be inevitable if the peaceful path was ignored.

[Nakena]

They've moved well past the point of merely threatening violence.

Well yeah, peaceful protest hasn't worked the other dozen times it's been tried in the past 10 years.

Occupy Wall Street as one example. Honestly it's almost naive how they believed they could "change the system" or some nonsense like that.

Now the current protests and riots are by several magnitudes more threatening to the system. Not by the virtue of their own aims or objectives. They lack such. But by the raw ferocity and dimension.

[The New California Republic]

They've moved well past the point of merely threatening violence.

Well yeah, peaceful protest hasn't worked the other dozen times it's been tried in the past 10 years.

They did occasionally in the 20th century, but now they don't. It's sad that the only time that the fuzz and those in power pay attention any more is when rocks are being hurled.

[Diopolis]

What if I told you daddy Fed doesn't have to do everything. Examine local police departments, scrutinize their training procedures, find what the agreement is between police unions and municipalities, elect and hold to account local politicians, find ways to foster positive police-citizen relations, hash out ways to increase transparency, or just do something productive. Things on the local and state level can get done, there is no need to wait around for Washington to get moving and no one should wait for Washington to attempt a ham fisted way in fixing this.

Seriously all the posters online who virtue signal slogans and the like and do not get off their rear end to get something done in their local communities are insufferable. Watch once this fades out of the news cycle all those so called supporters and concerned citizens will disappear until the next tragedy occurs, rinse and repeat and rinse and repeat over and over again. It's how this always works and no amount of feel good platitudes or internet outrage will ever fix anything, especially with how fickle the modern, perhaps just human, attention span is.

Now a shift to the protesters, the actual ones not the rioters, someone needs to actually organize them and direct them towards some sort of concrete policy or goal, policy's need to be targeted for implementation or revocation. Right now it just seems many of the protests are directionless making all that energy go all over the place and in the grand scheme things useless. No unified voice in regards to a possible solution. It needs to actually be harnessed and directed in a productive manner. Picketing and standard protests can accomplish some things yes, such as pressuring the local government to fire and charge the officer finally, but without a structured, organized, disciplined, and principled form of protest that has a specific target you are for all intents and purposes screaming to the sky and the powers that be won't pay to much attention. Example a phalanx or a shield wall can not be broken by a mob rush, does not end well unless you have Soviet level human waves.

Not meaning to lash out at you, I've just been seeing this over and over again and just needed to get it out there.

What if I told you there was another option?

That it was called police abolition?

Have you ever been into a store with a board at the front that says "thief!" and has pictures of people, usually young negro males, with the length of their sentences written beneath them, and in big letters at the very bottom "We prosecute!"?
In a world where the state writes off it's law enforcement responsibilities as someone else's problem, that would be a pillar covered with their severed hands. Just to be clear here: it wouldn't be a libertarian paradise.

[New Visayan Islands]

What if I told you there was another option?

That it was called police abolition?

Have you ever been into a store with a board at the front that says "thief!" and has pictures of people, usually young negro males, with the length of their sentences written beneath them, and in big letters at the very bottom "We prosecute!"?
In a world where the state writes off it's law enforcement responsibilities as someone else's problem, that would be a pillar covered with their severed hands. Just to be clear here: it wouldn't be a libertarian paradise.

Can confirm, the first year of the Duterte Presidency was a year of vigilante executions leading the headlines.

[Bienenhalde]

I disagree, Charles I did everything in service of his belief in Divine Right and responsibilities as King of England and Scotland. As disagreeable as that is to parliamentarians, and as flawed as some of his actions were, it's not something that can be considered treasonous by any stretch, or worthy of execution.

Charles I died as a martyr because radical low-church Protestants thought he was making the Church of England too Catholic and because he refused to abolish the apostolic succession of bishops in the Church of England.

[Bienenhalde]

To be honest, I think what I find most disturbing about the rioting is not that rioting is taking place in the first place, but that so many people who ought to no better are defending the rioters on the internet. Why is it that so many young people I know who are well educated and seemed to have the opportunity of a bright future in respectable society defending this outrageous degeneracy?

I dunno maybe you should read their arguments or explanations more closely rather than simply assuming they’ve all mysteriously lost their minds at the same time tho

I don't think they "mysteriously lost their minds". They have been clearly brainwashed by leftist and anarchist propaganda and degenerate attitudes of hyper-individualism and disrespect for authority more generally.

[Kowani]

I dunno maybe you should read their arguments or explanations more closely rather than simply assuming they’ve all mysteriously lost their minds at the same time tho

I don't think they "mysteriously lost their minds". They have been clearly brainwashed by leftist and anarchist propaganda and degenerate attitudes of hyper-individualism and disrespect for authority more generally.

>Leftist
>Hyper-individualism

Uhhh…yeah…sure…

[Proctopeo]

I don't think they "mysteriously lost their minds". They have been clearly brainwashed by leftist and anarchist propaganda and degenerate attitudes of hyper-individualism and disrespect for authority more generally.

>Leftist
>Hyper-individualism

Uhhh…yeah…sure…

Leftist is accurate, but it comes off as more a sort of conformism than individualism to me.

[Bienenhalde]

>Leftist
>Hyper-individualism

Uhhh…yeah…sure…

Leftist is accurate, but it comes off as more a sort of conformism than individualism to me.

Individualism in the sense that they think they can carry and do as they please without considering the greater good or the needs of other people. Not that they are actually smart enough or creative enough to think for themselves.

[Diopolis]

Remember kids, the dark enlightenment is just performance art to show the ridiculosity of SJW's.

[Cekoviu]

Remember kids, the dark enlightenment is just performance art to show the ridiculosity of SJW's.

...and they do so by being even more ridiculous?

[Diopolis]

Remember kids, the dark enlightenment is just performance art to show the ridiculosity of SJW's.

...and they do so by being even more ridiculous?

The cathedral is just a mishmash of patriarchy and privilege with the holes in the theory on display. Much of the rest of their oddness works very similarly- pick a social justice concept, reverse the polarity, and magnify the holes so everyone sees them as soon as they look.

[Cekoviu]

...and they do so by being even more ridiculous?

The cathedral is just a mishmash of patriarchy and privilege with the holes in the theory on display. Much of the rest of their oddness works very similarly- pick a social justice concept, reverse the polarity, and magnify the holes so everyone sees them as soon as they look.

I think you're overestimating the cleverness of neoreactionaries, tbh.

[Joohan]

I agree that America's elites have indeed abandoned any patriotic values for cosmopolitanism - but that is not at all shown in the police force. A case might be made for departments such as the FBI or Homeland Security, but not for municipal police departments, which are largely ( if not usually ) wholly local entities. If your local police department has a problem, then the problem must be fixed at the local level, not the national one. Likewise, burning down some dude's liquor store and beating him to death on the street doesn't help that any...

Peaceful revolution is possible, and has worked tremendously in this country's past. Violent revolutions, on the other hand, have usually triggered violent reactions.

On the contrary, it is a massive issue at the local issue. When you actually look into how many cases of abuse, corruption, and murder there are it is quite shocking.

That's nowhere near the point either you or I said. I was responding to your first point: America's elites abandoned America. I agreed, but I pointed out that that would be no reason why local departments have issues. A billionaire living in California has no real say into the actions taken by a local police department in Indiana. He might very well have an affect on national agencies - but these protests are mostly centered around the interaction with local cops.

Local deficiencies require local solutions. Sure, some practices at a national level can be reformed - but things like misconduct, tactics, and engagement with the community is something which should be handled at the local level. Burning down a town in Illinois because of MPD's misdeeds make absolutely no sense. Communities which have great relationships with their police have no reason to riot, because their departments are not the problem. Why must the country be burned down for something that must be solved at the local level?

Peaceful protests have worked in reforming police departments across the country. The President's Task Force on 21st Century Policing, has given reports which numerous departments across the nation have adopted and implemented. Things from body cams, to training, to civilian oversight. Just read it here. Change takes time, but it is absolutely happening, and it would be ignorant to say otherwise.

The riots will bring about change, though I doubt it will be the change they want. National guard deployed preemptively at even the hints of a riot, the hunting down of ANTIFA provocateurs, maybe there will finally be a reaction the media who stoke these flames. That's what I am hoping for at least. There is absolutely no reason why American's and their livelihoods should be treated as collateral damage.

[Novus America]

I disagree, Charles I did everything in service of his belief in Divine Right and responsibilities as King of England and Scotland. As disagreeable as that is to parliamentarians, and as flawed as some of his actions were, it's not something that can be considered treasonous by any stretch, or worthy of execution.

Charles I died as a martyr because radical low-church Protestants thought he was making the Church of England too Catholic and because he refused to abolish the apostolic succession of bishops in the Church of England.

Eh, it was much more complicated than that. Much more.
But in the end it was a political struggle, Charles had certain ideas of politics which I disagree with, and arguably committed some illegal acts especially in regards to taxation (England lacking a clearly codified constitution was problematic here) it was a constitutional crisis and a struggle to determine the meaning and extent of constitutional powers.

Which happens. But it is not usually a good justification for head chopping. We did not execute Truman when he lost the Steel Seizure Case (Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 U.S. 579 (1952)) and illegally claimed powers he did not have.
But of course England in the 1600s lacked an independent Supreme Court with judicial review to resolve conflicts between the king and parliament.

Sure the religious aspects of the power struggles (a good argument for the separation of church and state) made it more contentious and harder to resolve but it was not a purely theological matter, in the end it was a power struggle between king and parliament over who had what powers. On religious and many other matters.