NationStates

The Marlborough wrote:The abolish the police crowd is what really soured everything. Some of y'all have no idea what areas that have little to no police presence are like.

I’m still wondering when they hijacked the movement.

Cisairse wrote:

Novus America wrote:
The have a long history of making it difficult or impossible to fire child rapists?
https://www.investors.com/politics/edit ... -teachers/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicag ... utType=amp

Teachers work for the state, have huge institutional power, and the teachers unions sometimes abuse that horribly. What fundamentally makes them better?

Protecting child rapists is definitely a concern. If that's an institutional problem, we should definitely work to address it.

As for what "fundamentally" makes them better, the answer is simple: teachers are not warriors in class conflict. Teachers are not on the front lines of the workingman's struggle for power and liberation; they are not abetting the bourgeois state in its quest for oppression of the proletariat.

I mean you really think institutional pose is not enforced by ideas as well as guns? Sure the teachers might not always have the guns themselves but they wield power. And all to often abuse it, and the teachers unions all to often protect the abusers. I fail to see how protecting rapists is better just because whatever Marxist word salad we slap on the end.

Before I take my exam, here's a link to the new iteration of the thread.

The Marlborough wrote:The abolish the police crowd is what really soured everything. Some of y'all have no idea what areas that have little to no police presence are like.

From what I have seen many “abolish police” types are middle to upper class white college white college students. Who probably never faced any violent crime.

Abolish the police certainly is less problematic for those living in gated communities with private security guards.

The Marlborough wrote:The abolish the police crowd is what really soured everything. Some of y'all have no idea what areas that have little to no police presence are like.

The world where interpersonal crime is dealt with through the application of violence?

Cisairse wrote:

Novus America wrote:
I mean well okay, even in the present you might be screwed. But I doubt you are out their fighting for the revolution or whatever.

Sure people get killed by police, although this is not always bad (and most the people killing during this unrest were NOT killed by police) although it can be bad when the killing is not legally and ethically justified but I fail to see how this changes the point.

If there is a Marxist revolution the left cons end up being put up against a wall by the ones who have the guns. Guns win.

Yes, which is why the left should arm itself.

That's not enough. I've said this before, but in a civil war scenario it's cohesion that carries the day, not guns. And the right has better cohesion at the moment due to the way it's socialized- you'd have to fundamentally change the way you recruit supporters in order to compete.

Novus America wrote:

Cisairse wrote:Protecting child rapists is definitely a concern. If that's an institutional problem, we should definitely work to address it.

As for what "fundamentally" makes them better, the answer is simple: teachers are not warriors in class conflict. Teachers are not on the front lines of the workingman's struggle for power and liberation; they are not abetting the bourgeois state in its quest for oppression of the proletariat.

I mean you really think institutional pose is not enforced by ideas as well as guns?

Whatever my answer to that question is is kinda irrelevant because teachers don't decide curricula.

Novus America wrote: Sure the teachers might not always have the guns themselves but they wield power. And all to often abuse it, and the teachers unions all to often protect the abusers. I fail to see how protecting rapists is better just because whatever Marxist word salad we slap on the end.

This is a false dichotomy. I never said that "protecting rapists is better."

Teachers absolutely play a role in defining how their students interact with the state and society. The notion that they play no role in broader society is a bit silly. If anything, an educational institution that engenders hegemonic liberalism arguably does more to protect elites than even the most draconian level of policing. Supposing we even countenance Marxist arguments at all.

Novus America wrote:

The Marlborough wrote:The abolish the police crowd is what really soured everything. Some of y'all have no idea what areas that have little to no police presence are like.

From what I have seen many “abolish police” types are middle to upper class white college white college students. Who probably never faced any violent crime.

Abolish the police certainly is less problematic for those living in gated communities with private security guards.

And who probably depend on living in a world enabled by the police in which interpersonal honor is irrelevant.

Cisairse wrote:

Novus America wrote:
I mean well okay, even in the present you might be screwed. But I doubt you are out their fighting for the revolution or whatever.

Sure people get killed by police, although this is not always bad (and most the people killing during this unrest were NOT killed by police) although it can be bad when the killing is not legally and ethically justified but I fail to see how this changes the point.

If there is a Marxist revolution the left cons end up being put up against a wall by the ones who have the guns. Guns win.

Yes, which is why the left should arm itself.

Hehe, the same left who will elect Biden so he can ban private ownership of AR-15s

Diopolis wrote:That's not enough. I've said this before, but in a civil war scenario it's cohesion that carries the day, not guns. And the right has better cohesion at the moment due to the way it's socialized- you'd have to fundamentally change the way you recruit supporters in order to compete.

Which is why I support the IWW and the SRA.

The SRA in particular is great because the right keeps spreading around the idea that it's somehow disorganized, tiny, or populated by people who don't know anything about guns. When in reality the opposite is true. It's great cover.

The Village Green SSR wrote:Before I take my exam, here's a link to the new iteration of the thread.

Good luck with your exam, whatever it's in.

Novus America wrote:

Cisairse wrote:Yes, which is why the left should arm itself.

Hehe, the same left who will elect Biden so he can ban private ownership of AR-15s

Have you not looked at the internet in the last year?

The left doesn't like Biden. We might vote for him, but we don't like him.

Liberals aren't left.

Novus America wrote:

Cisairse wrote:Yes, which is why the left should arm itself.

Hehe, the same left who will elect Biden so he can ban private ownership of AR-15s

…Liberals aren’t leftists.

Fahran wrote:Teachers absolutely play a role in defining how their students interact with the state and society. The notion that they play no role in broader society is a bit silly. If anything, an educational institution that engenders hegemonic liberalism arguably does more to protect elites than even the most draconian level of policing. Supposing we even countenance Marxist arguments at all.

We raise the next generation of thinkers by interacting with them 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Just a reminder.

Cisairse wrote:

Diopolis wrote:That's not enough. I've said this before, but in a civil war scenario it's cohesion that carries the day, not guns. And the right has better cohesion at the moment due to the way it's socialized- you'd have to fundamentally change the way you recruit supporters in order to compete.

Which is why I support the IWW and the SRA.

The SRA in particular is great because the right keeps spreading around the idea that it's somehow disorganized, tiny, or populated by people who don't know anything about guns. When in reality the opposite is true. It's great cover.

The IWW is tiny.
I don't know much about the SRA, so I'm not going to comment.

Cisairse wrote:

Novus America wrote:
I mean you really think institutional pose is not enforced by ideas as well as guns?

Whatever my answer to that question is is kinda irrelevant because teachers don't decide curricula.

Novus America wrote: Sure the teachers might not always have the guns themselves but they wield power. And all to often abuse it, and the teachers unions all to often protect the abusers. I fail to see how protecting rapists is better just because whatever Marxist word salad we slap on the end.

This is a false dichotomy. I never said that "protecting rapists is better."

Teachers do not decide the curricula just as police do not make the laws. They are both merely enforcers, not decision makers. Again the are not that different.
The problem is you indicated it is less important to stop unions enabling child rape because some Marxist stuff. I know you do not think what the teachers unions often do is okay, but you ideologic blinders make you unwilling to do the same thing to help address it.

Cisairse wrote:

Novus America wrote:
Hehe, the same left who will elect Biden so he can ban private ownership of AR-15s

Have you not looked at the internet in the last year?

The left doesn't like Biden. We might vote for him, but we don't like him.

Liberals aren't left.

Why vote for the shiniest of two turds?

Cisairse wrote:

Novus America wrote:
Hehe, the same left who will elect Biden so he can ban private ownership of AR-15s

Have you not looked at the internet in the last year?

The left doesn't like Biden. We might vote for him, but we don't like him.

Liberals aren't left.

And yet you still lose your guns. Saying “I do not like him but let him take my guns to own Trump” will not help you if the real shit goes down.

You still vote to be disarmed. And thus still end up disarmed.

Proctopeo wrote:

Cisairse wrote:Have you not looked at the internet in the last year?

The left doesn't like Biden. We might vote for him, but we don't like him.

Liberals aren't left.

Why vote for the shiniest of two turds?

You don't know that I am.

Novus America wrote:

Cisairse wrote:Have you not looked at the internet in the last year?

The left doesn't like Biden. We might vote for him, but we don't like him.

Liberals aren't left.

And yet you still lose your guns. Saying “I do not like him but let him take my guns to own Trump” will not help you if the real shit goes down.

You still vote to be disarmed. And thus still end up disarmed.

Never said I'm voting for Biden, so thanks for shoving words in my mouth.

Besides, guns are illegal in my state anyway, so who sits in the White House literally does not matter to me. I'd still have to lobby local government to repeal the ban; calling that an uphill battle would be a massive understatement.

Novus America wrote:

Cisairse wrote:Have you not looked at the internet in the last year?

The left doesn't like Biden. We might vote for him, but we don't like him.

Liberals aren't left.

And yet you still lose your guns. Saying “I do not like him but let him take my guns to own Trump” will not help you if the real shit goes down.

You still vote to be disarmed. And thus still end up disarmed.

Gun control is not passing the senate. No way, no how, absolutely not.

Kowani wrote:

Novus America wrote:
Hehe, the same left who will elect Biden so he can ban private ownership of AR-15s

…Liberals aren’t leftists.

Sure. But leftists still will make sure Biden wins. Leftists still will vote for for Biden alongside the “liberals“.

Cisairse wrote:

Imperium Romanum Sanctis wrote:
Not as bad as the institutionalized cover-ups for sexual predators, but teachers' unions are also geared to favour a certain generation of employees to the detriment of others. If you haven't been in the system for 20+ years, the unions don't give a shit about you aside from your union dues.

In the only conversation I've had with a teacher about unions, he expressed intense frustration that newly hired teachers were more willing to negotiate lower salaries and generally held anti-union views, which he believed was contributing to a culture of disdain for new hires among teachers who had worked at the school for many years and had been very involved in previous union negotiations.

I can't speak too much about the American situation, but in the province I live in Canada, you quite literally cannot negotiate your salary individually. Everything is collectively bargained, which sounds good in principle; but in practice it means that teachers who have been in the system for 20+ years make an average of $70,000.00 a year while new teachers are lucky if they make $30,000.00 per annum.

The other major issue is pensions. Teachers' pensions are funded by deducting from employee salaries, and are receivable on a monthly basis after retirement. Rather problematically, most are severely mismanaged, with my own province's pension fund being more than a billion dollars in the red. In practice, this means that new teachers (who make less than half the income of their senior counterparts) will in all likelihood never receive a pension when they eventually retire, but will nonetheless continue to contribute to the fund to help fuel their elders' excessive spending habits.

The system is very much rigged in favour of a certain generation of teachers.

Kowani wrote:

Novus America wrote:
And yet you still lose your guns. Saying “I do not like him but let him take my guns to own Trump” will not help you if the real shit goes down.

You still vote to be disarmed. And thus still end up disarmed.

Gun control is not passing the senate. No way, no how, absolutely not.

Unless the Democrats get a senate majority. Leftists will vote for liberals down ballot too. Schumer thanks you for your votes.

Novus America wrote:

Kowani wrote:…Liberals aren’t leftists.

Sure. But leftists still will make sure Biden wins. Leftists still will vote for for Biden alongside the “liberals“.

Shrug. I don’t like either. But Trump is a unique disaster. I’m not voting for Biden. But the country would be better off if he won.