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RWDT XX: The System Is Kapp Putsch

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which alcoholic beverage is the most right-wing?

Wine (Blood and Body?)
23
21%
Beer
22
21%
Vodka
6
6%
Mead
12
11%
Whiskey/Whisky
18
17%
Scotch (option included for Questers and old people)
9
8%
Rakı (option included specifically for Marches)
4
4%
Seltzers/Hard Ciders (because the Claw is the LAW)
5
5%
Gin
4
4%
Other (Rum/Brandy/Cognac/Tequila)
4
4%
 
Total votes : 107

User avatar
Cisairse
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9452
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:16 pm

The East Marches II wrote:
Cisairse wrote:
The IWW has an engaging graphic explaining the matter nicely.



"Soon, you'll see!" isn't a great take.


No it really is. We have an unpoliced part our poorest section thanks to progressive policies. Extrapolate that out and we see how insane your idea is. Chicago alone without ending the police Nationwide would ruin you. Go send a social worker to a gun battle with Serbs and see how that works out. Get back to me on that. Your IWW piece lacks worker solidarity and is revisionist. Just like their advocacy for breaking up carbon workers unions :^)

You seriously waited all day and pestered me to respond to you across multiple threads just so you could post that?

This is weak, and I expected more.
Now it's clear as a pillar of smoke
The details of the above post are subject to leftist infighting.

And broken Starbucks glass

Yeah, I support my troops
They wave black flags
They wear black masks

User avatar
The East Marches II
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18033
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches II » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:16 pm

Italios wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
I read in the journal he wanted to kill the program altogether and was moving to end the feeder programs in the normie schools? Was I mistaken.

when was that released? honestly I've seen the discourse go in like fifty different directions in regards to it, just because there's so much to weigh on both sides. like i said - it produces a huge number of obscenely excellent academics, but a huge proportion is repressed and de facto restricted entry.


It would have been like a year and a half ago. He was killing the feeder gifted programs as a first step. Something tells me that corona has killed his career.

User avatar
Diopolis
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16734
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:16 pm

Italios wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Is there an explanation for those of us that aren't communists?

the entire fucking cartoon is an explanation, diop.

No, it really isn't.
It's based on fundamentally invalid marxian analysis.
Proudly anti-mask, moderately anti-vax.
Economic left -3.88, authoritarian 6.15
Thoughts
Abortion is not healthcare.

User avatar
Hakons
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5619
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hakons » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:17 pm

Cisairse wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Is there an explanation for those of us that aren't communists?

What part of the IWW's argument do you disagree with?


Police are still public employees, often working long hours and at high risk. They’re workers, and the IWW’s lack of support says more about bourgeois socialism than it does about police officers.
“All elements of the national life must be made to drink in the Life which proceedeth from Him: legislation, political institutions, education, marriage and family life, capital and labour.” —Pope Leo XIII

User avatar
Questarian New Yorkshire
Minister
 
Posts: 3157
Founded: Nov 08, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Questarian New Yorkshire » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:17 pm

Im pro unions sorry

Grève générale!!!!!
REST IN PEACE RWDT & LWDT
I'm just a poor wayfaring stranger, traveling through this world below
There is no sickness, no toil, nor danger, in that bright land to which I go
I'm going there to see my Father, and all my loved ones who've gone on
I'm only going over Jordan, I'm only going over home

I know dark clouds will gather 'round me, I know my way is hard and steep
But beauteous fields arise before me, where God's redeemed, their vigils keep

User avatar
The East Marches II
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18033
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches II » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:18 pm

Cisairse wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
No it really is. We have an unpoliced part our poorest section thanks to progressive policies. Extrapolate that out and we see how insane your idea is. Chicago alone without ending the police Nationwide would ruin you. Go send a social worker to a gun battle with Serbs and see how that works out. Get back to me on that. Your IWW piece lacks worker solidarity and is revisionist. Just like their advocacy for breaking up carbon workers unions :^)

You seriously waited all day and pestered me to respond to you across multiple threads just so you could post that?

This is weak, and I expected more.


Yes I did. You should be challenged on your insane idea. More people will die because of your bad idea. This country is not full of nice people. Ethnic gangs started beating rioting blacks when order broke down. The civil authorities approved. What do you think happens when your social workers walk into a warzone? You are not willing to face the reality of what you will make.

User avatar
Hakons
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5619
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hakons » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:19 pm

Imagine being a leftist and not wanting to get the security forces on your side. How do you think the Bolsheviks won the Russian Civil War?
“All elements of the national life must be made to drink in the Life which proceedeth from Him: legislation, political institutions, education, marriage and family life, capital and labour.” —Pope Leo XIII

User avatar
Cisairse
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9452
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:19 pm

Hakons wrote:
Cisairse wrote:What part of the IWW's argument do you disagree with?


Police are still public employees, often working long hours and at high risk. They’re workers, and the IWW’s lack of support says more about bourgeois socialism than it does about police officers.

That doesn't really address the points raised by the IWW, though. Nobody is saying the police aren't "workers." It's everything else that makes them objects of oppression rather than subjects. Unions exist to create class solidarity to even the power disparity between the employer and employed classes. That disparity doesn't really exist among police officers because they are, themselves, powerful.
Now it's clear as a pillar of smoke
The details of the above post are subject to leftist infighting.

And broken Starbucks glass

Yeah, I support my troops
They wave black flags
They wear black masks

User avatar
Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11801
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:20 pm

Cisairse wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Privatizing prison guards did not turn out very well.

They still have an economic incentive to cut costs and corners.

Now sure police unions may have too much power. Maybe public sector workers should not be allowed to be unionized. Federal police already and many other federal employees cannot be unionized already.

Unions are necessary in the private sector as private employees do not get the same due process rights a public sector workers.

There's plenty of public sector jobs that have similar power dynamics to private sector jobs, and thus really do need unions.

Police are not one of them.

What are your thoughts on teacher's unions?
ec 4.38 soc -3.95
I don't like most tankies/red fascists
China Lied, People Died.
6500 Year-Old Soomer
RIP the LWDT and RWDT, may their legacy live on

User avatar
Questarian New Yorkshire
Minister
 
Posts: 3157
Founded: Nov 08, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Questarian New Yorkshire » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:20 pm

Hakons wrote:Imagine being a leftist and not wanting to get the security forces on your side. How do you think the Bolsheviks won the Russian Civil War?
The soldiers in the Russian revolution turned their guns to the working class because the soldiers in the Russian revolution were working class.

Their officers had other ideas.
REST IN PEACE RWDT & LWDT
I'm just a poor wayfaring stranger, traveling through this world below
There is no sickness, no toil, nor danger, in that bright land to which I go
I'm going there to see my Father, and all my loved ones who've gone on
I'm only going over Jordan, I'm only going over home

I know dark clouds will gather 'round me, I know my way is hard and steep
But beauteous fields arise before me, where God's redeemed, their vigils keep

User avatar
Cisairse
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9452
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:20 pm

Hakons wrote:Imagine being a leftist and not wanting to get the security forces on your side. How do you think the Bolsheviks won the Russian Civil War?

By rigging an election which they then lost despite rigging it, throwing a hissy fit over this fact and betraying their fellow revolutionaries.
Now it's clear as a pillar of smoke
The details of the above post are subject to leftist infighting.

And broken Starbucks glass

Yeah, I support my troops
They wave black flags
They wear black masks

User avatar
Fahran
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11478
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:20 pm

Italios wrote:mind you, i'm not pro open borders by any means, but it's just dumb on so many levels to treat "Hispanic," the ethnic category as entirely foreign born.

Puerto Ricans are American citizens as well. According to some estimates, Puerto Ricans comprise half of New York's Latino population.

User avatar
Italios
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17468
Founded: Dec 19, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Italios » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:21 pm

Hakons wrote:Imagine being a leftist and not wanting to get the security forces on your side. How do you think the Bolsheviks won the Russian Civil War?

are you fucking serious?

the aim of guard labor is to prop up the rule of the bourgeois state, which necessarily must be abolished under socialism.

EDIT: oh i see now the point of this was to get me to agree with the furry cartoon. well, congrats man, you got me there.
Last edited by Italios on Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
socialist ☭ pro-enosis ☦︎ dsaz member ♥ free literature
"individualism, at first, only saps the virtues of public life; but in the long run it attacks and destroys all others and is at length absorbed in selfishness." -alexis de tocqueville

User avatar
The Village Green SSR
Attaché
 
Posts: 85
Founded: Jun 13, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby The Village Green SSR » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:22 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Questarian New Yorkshire wrote:is this a cast for the rwdt film

we can probably get most of those actors with swaglord and bear stearns's hoard of money, let's do it


I wasn't on the list, so I refuse to finance such a project.

That, and I have nightmares about the last time I tried to make a cinematic adaptation of NationStates. Suffice it to say, middle school was a weird time for me.
The user who was formerly known as Swaglord and/or Xuloqoia...

Meta-Ethical Things I Largely Support: Moral realism, moral universalism, broadly altruist forms of normative ethics
Meta-Ethical Things I Largely Reject: Moral nihilism, broadly egoist forms of normative ethics

Universal love is to regard another's state as one's own. A person of universal love will take care of his friend as he does of himself, and take care of his friend's parents as his own. So when he finds his friend hungry he will feed him, and when he finds him cold he will clothe him...
- Mozi, if memory serves me right.

Also, to those who had to endure it, I apologize once more for the utter cringe of my adolescence...

User avatar
The East Marches II
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18033
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches II » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:23 pm

Italios wrote:
Hakons wrote:Imagine being a leftist and not wanting to get the security forces on your side. How do you think the Bolsheviks won the Russian Civil War?

are you fucking serious?

the aim of guard labor is to prop up the rule of the bourgeois state, which necessarily must be abolished under socialism.

EDIT: oh i see now the point of this was to get me to agree with the furry cartoon. well, congrats man, you got me there.


abolished under the PMC state with neofeudalism for the upper middle class*

:^)

User avatar
Hakons
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5619
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hakons » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:23 pm

Cisairse wrote:
Hakons wrote:
Police are still public employees, often working long hours and at high risk. They’re workers, and the IWW’s lack of support says more about bourgeois socialism than it does about police officers.

That doesn't really address the points raised by the IWW, though. Nobody is saying the police aren't "workers." It's everything else that makes them objects of oppression rather than subjects. Unions exist to create class solidarity to even the power disparity between the employer and employed classes. That disparity doesn't really exist among police officers because they are, themselves, powerful.


As politicians, governors, and police chiefs turn on them, increasingly with threats to disband police unions or reduce funding (which is mostly wages), it becomes clear police officers have a class interest. They should go on strike if management continues to be so hostile. This is labor politics.
“All elements of the national life must be made to drink in the Life which proceedeth from Him: legislation, political institutions, education, marriage and family life, capital and labour.” —Pope Leo XIII

User avatar
Cisairse
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9452
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:23 pm

Proctopeo wrote:
Cisairse wrote:There's plenty of public sector jobs that have similar power dynamics to private sector jobs, and thus really do need unions.

Police are not one of them.

What are your thoughts on teacher's unions?

I haven't really seen any reason to have a problem with them.
Now it's clear as a pillar of smoke
The details of the above post are subject to leftist infighting.

And broken Starbucks glass

Yeah, I support my troops
They wave black flags
They wear black masks

User avatar
Italios
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17468
Founded: Dec 19, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Italios » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:24 pm

The East Marches II wrote:
Italios wrote:are you fucking serious?

the aim of guard labor is to prop up the rule of the bourgeois state, which necessarily must be abolished under socialism.

EDIT: oh i see now the point of this was to get me to agree with the furry cartoon. well, congrats man, you got me there.


abolished under the PMC state with neofeudalism for the upper middle class*

:^)

oh, fuck off with this aimee shit, it doesn't work off twitter. i'm not advocating for abolishing police under capitalism so that we can have Mcdeathsquads, but they're certainly not friends of anyone with revolutionary ideals that fall outside of the Overton window of politically correct convictions - left wing or right wing.
socialist ☭ pro-enosis ☦︎ dsaz member ♥ free literature
"individualism, at first, only saps the virtues of public life; but in the long run it attacks and destroys all others and is at length absorbed in selfishness." -alexis de tocqueville

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Imperium Romanum Sanctis
Envoy
 
Posts: 212
Founded: Jun 19, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperium Romanum Sanctis » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:25 pm

Cisairse wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
Why not? Why do certain workers get privileged position?


The IWW has an engaging graphic explaining the matter nicely.


I mean no disrespect, but the simple fact that the IWW can barely manage to muster 6000 members worldwide (less than 4000 in the US in particular) after over a century of existence as a union makes their worldview pretty irrelevant.

Wobblies are a relic of history. They're more of a bizarre curiosity than anything; not something that should genuinely be taken seriously.

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Cisairse
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9452
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:25 pm

Hakons wrote:
Cisairse wrote:That doesn't really address the points raised by the IWW, though. Nobody is saying the police aren't "workers." It's everything else that makes them objects of oppression rather than subjects. Unions exist to create class solidarity to even the power disparity between the employer and employed classes. That disparity doesn't really exist among police officers because they are, themselves, powerful.


As politicians, governors, and police chiefs turn on them, increasingly with threats to disband police unions or reduce funding (which is mostly wages), it becomes clear police officers have a class interest. They should go on strike if management continues to be so hostile. This is labor politics.

Sure, but the police are not members of the proletariat. They, in any bourgeois dictatorship, are the enforcer arm of the bourgeois apparatus which keeps classes stratified. The most effective way for a police officer to reduce the power and influence of the bourgeois is to resign. This is mostly unique among occupations.
Now it's clear as a pillar of smoke
The details of the above post are subject to leftist infighting.

And broken Starbucks glass

Yeah, I support my troops
They wave black flags
They wear black masks

User avatar
Diopolis
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16734
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:25 pm

Cisairse wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Is there an explanation for those of us that aren't communists?

What part of the IWW's argument do you disagree with?

1) Personal self defense against the police has been ruled justified before, IIRC.
2) The function of the police is to apprehend and punish criminals. This is, correctly, distinguished from personal self defence, but what the analysis forgets is that it's not, fundamentally, a protection of private property at the expense of personal property(see the next point as well). It's about requiring the state as a mediator between individuals with irresolvable disputes.
3) There is no real distinction between private and personal property. This is something that is made up to justify redistributionary policies.
4) There are multiple explanations for the police only resolving 19% of thefts that explain a bigger piece of the pie than incompetence, including that 65% of Americans that don't report stolen property.
5) Police are not expected to have concentration-camp-guard like willingness to do immoral things.
Last edited by Diopolis on Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proudly anti-mask, moderately anti-vax.
Economic left -3.88, authoritarian 6.15
Thoughts
Abortion is not healthcare.

User avatar
Questarian New Yorkshire
Minister
 
Posts: 3157
Founded: Nov 08, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Questarian New Yorkshire » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:25 pm

If financiers are intent on waging war on the people then the people are justified in organising their response.

General strike !!!
REST IN PEACE RWDT & LWDT
I'm just a poor wayfaring stranger, traveling through this world below
There is no sickness, no toil, nor danger, in that bright land to which I go
I'm going there to see my Father, and all my loved ones who've gone on
I'm only going over Jordan, I'm only going over home

I know dark clouds will gather 'round me, I know my way is hard and steep
But beauteous fields arise before me, where God's redeemed, their vigils keep

User avatar
Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36135
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:26 pm

Cisairse wrote:
Hakons wrote:Imagine being a leftist and not wanting to get the security forces on your side. How do you think the Bolsheviks won the Russian Civil War?

By rigging an election which they then lost despite rigging it, throwing a hissy fit over this fact and betraying their fellow revolutionaries.


But still they won. He who has the guns makes the rules. Your ideology ensures that you will be one of the victims in a hypothetical revolution rather than the victors.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Questarian New Yorkshire
Minister
 
Posts: 3157
Founded: Nov 08, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Questarian New Yorkshire » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:27 pm

who tf is making the next thread btw
REST IN PEACE RWDT & LWDT
I'm just a poor wayfaring stranger, traveling through this world below
There is no sickness, no toil, nor danger, in that bright land to which I go
I'm going there to see my Father, and all my loved ones who've gone on
I'm only going over Jordan, I'm only going over home

I know dark clouds will gather 'round me, I know my way is hard and steep
But beauteous fields arise before me, where God's redeemed, their vigils keep

User avatar
Cisairse
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9452
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:28 pm

Novus America wrote:
Cisairse wrote:By rigging an election which they then lost despite rigging it, throwing a hissy fit over this fact and betraying their fellow revolutionaries.


But still they won. He who has the guns makes the rules. Your ideology ensures that you will be one of the victims in a hypothetical revolution rather than the victors.

You do realize that people are protesting right now and being killed by police officers right now, right?

We're not talking about some hypothetical future.
Now it's clear as a pillar of smoke
The details of the above post are subject to leftist infighting.

And broken Starbucks glass

Yeah, I support my troops
They wave black flags
They wear black masks

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