RWDT XX: The System Is Kapp Putsch

[Cisairse]

The IWW has an engaging graphic explaining the matter nicely.



"Soon, you'll see!" isn't a great take.

No it really is. We have an unpoliced part our poorest section thanks to progressive policies. Extrapolate that out and we see how insane your idea is. Chicago alone without ending the police Nationwide would ruin you. Go send a social worker to a gun battle with Serbs and see how that works out. Get back to me on that. Your IWW piece lacks worker solidarity and is revisionist. Just like their advocacy for breaking up carbon workers unions :^)

You seriously waited all day and pestered me to respond to you across multiple threads just so you could post that?

This is weak, and I expected more.

[The East Marches II]

I read in the journal he wanted to kill the program altogether and was moving to end the feeder programs in the normie schools? Was I mistaken.

when was that released? honestly I've seen the discourse go in like fifty different directions in regards to it, just because there's so much to weigh on both sides. like i said - it produces a huge number of obscenely excellent academics, but a huge proportion is repressed and de facto restricted entry.

It would have been like a year and a half ago. He was killing the feeder gifted programs as a first step. Something tells me that corona has killed his career.

[Diopolis]

Is there an explanation for those of us that aren't communists?

the entire fucking cartoon is an explanation, diop.

No, it really isn't.
It's based on fundamentally invalid marxian analysis.

[Hakons]

Is there an explanation for those of us that aren't communists?

What part of the IWW's argument do you disagree with?

Police are still public employees, often working long hours and at high risk. They’re workers, and the IWW’s lack of support says more about bourgeois socialism than it does about police officers.

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

Im pro unions sorry

Grève générale!!!!!

[The East Marches II]

No it really is. We have an unpoliced part our poorest section thanks to progressive policies. Extrapolate that out and we see how insane your idea is. Chicago alone without ending the police Nationwide would ruin you. Go send a social worker to a gun battle with Serbs and see how that works out. Get back to me on that. Your IWW piece lacks worker solidarity and is revisionist. Just like their advocacy for breaking up carbon workers unions :^)

You seriously waited all day and pestered me to respond to you across multiple threads just so you could post that?

This is weak, and I expected more.

Yes I did. You should be challenged on your insane idea. More people will die because of your bad idea. This country is not full of nice people. Ethnic gangs started beating rioting blacks when order broke down. The civil authorities approved. What do you think happens when your social workers walk into a warzone? You are not willing to face the reality of what you will make.

[Hakons]

Imagine being a leftist and not wanting to get the security forces on your side. How do you think the Bolsheviks won the Russian Civil War?

[Cisairse]

What part of the IWW's argument do you disagree with?

Police are still public employees, often working long hours and at high risk. They’re workers, and the IWW’s lack of support says more about bourgeois socialism than it does about police officers.

That doesn't really address the points raised by the IWW, though. Nobody is saying the police aren't "workers." It's everything else that makes them objects of oppression rather than subjects. Unions exist to create class solidarity to even the power disparity between the employer and employed classes. That disparity doesn't really exist among police officers because they are, themselves, powerful.

[Proctopeo]

Privatizing prison guards did not turn out very well.

They still have an economic incentive to cut costs and corners.

Now sure police unions may have too much power. Maybe public sector workers should not be allowed to be unionized. Federal police already and many other federal employees cannot be unionized already.

Unions are necessary in the private sector as private employees do not get the same due process rights a public sector workers.

There's plenty of public sector jobs that have similar power dynamics to private sector jobs, and thus really do need unions.

Police are not one of them.

What are your thoughts on teacher's unions?

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

Imagine being a leftist and not wanting to get the security forces on your side. How do you think the Bolsheviks won the Russian Civil War?

The soldiers in the Russian revolution turned their guns to the working class because the soldiers in the Russian revolution were working class.

Their officers had other ideas.

[Cisairse]

Imagine being a leftist and not wanting to get the security forces on your side. How do you think the Bolsheviks won the Russian Civil War?

By rigging an election which they then lost despite rigging it, throwing a hissy fit over this fact and betraying their fellow revolutionaries.

[Fahran]

mind you, i'm not pro open borders by any means, but it's just dumb on so many levels to treat "Hispanic," the ethnic category as entirely foreign born.

Puerto Ricans are American citizens as well. According to some estimates, Puerto Ricans comprise half of New York's Latino population.

[Italios]

Imagine being a leftist and not wanting to get the security forces on your side. How do you think the Bolsheviks won the Russian Civil War?

are you fucking serious?

the aim of guard labor is to prop up the rule of the bourgeois state, which necessarily must be abolished under socialism.

EDIT: oh i see now the point of this was to get me to agree with the furry cartoon. well, congrats man, you got me there.

[The Village Green SSR]

is this a cast for the rwdt film

we can probably get most of those actors with swaglord and bear stearns's hoard of money, let's do it

I wasn't on the list, so I refuse to finance such a project.

That, and I have nightmares about the last time I tried to make a cinematic adaptation of NationStates. Suffice it to say, middle school was a weird time for me.

[The East Marches II]

Imagine being a leftist and not wanting to get the security forces on your side. How do you think the Bolsheviks won the Russian Civil War?

are you fucking serious?

the aim of guard labor is to prop up the rule of the bourgeois state, which necessarily must be abolished under socialism.

EDIT: oh i see now the point of this was to get me to agree with the furry cartoon. well, congrats man, you got me there.

abolished under the PMC state with neofeudalism for the upper middle class*

:^)

[Hakons]

Police are still public employees, often working long hours and at high risk. They’re workers, and the IWW’s lack of support says more about bourgeois socialism than it does about police officers.

That doesn't really address the points raised by the IWW, though. Nobody is saying the police aren't "workers." It's everything else that makes them objects of oppression rather than subjects. Unions exist to create class solidarity to even the power disparity between the employer and employed classes. That disparity doesn't really exist among police officers because they are, themselves, powerful.

As politicians, governors, and police chiefs turn on them, increasingly with threats to disband police unions or reduce funding (which is mostly wages), it becomes clear police officers have a class interest. They should go on strike if management continues to be so hostile. This is labor politics.

[Cisairse]

There's plenty of public sector jobs that have similar power dynamics to private sector jobs, and thus really do need unions.

Police are not one of them.

What are your thoughts on teacher's unions?

I haven't really seen any reason to have a problem with them.

[Italios]

are you fucking serious?

the aim of guard labor is to prop up the rule of the bourgeois state, which necessarily must be abolished under socialism.

EDIT: oh i see now the point of this was to get me to agree with the furry cartoon. well, congrats man, you got me there.

abolished under the PMC state with neofeudalism for the upper middle class*

:^)

oh, fuck off with this aimee shit, it doesn't work off twitter. i'm not advocating for abolishing police under capitalism so that we can have Mcdeathsquads, but they're certainly not friends of anyone with revolutionary ideals that fall outside of the Overton window of politically correct convictions - left wing or right wing.

[Imperium Romanum Sanctis]

Why not? Why do certain workers get privileged position?

The IWW has an engaging graphic explaining the matter nicely.

I mean no disrespect, but the simple fact that the IWW can barely manage to muster 6000 members worldwide (less than 4000 in the US in particular) after over a century of existence as a union makes their worldview pretty irrelevant.

Wobblies are a relic of history. They're more of a bizarre curiosity than anything; not something that should genuinely be taken seriously.

[Cisairse]

That doesn't really address the points raised by the IWW, though. Nobody is saying the police aren't "workers." It's everything else that makes them objects of oppression rather than subjects. Unions exist to create class solidarity to even the power disparity between the employer and employed classes. That disparity doesn't really exist among police officers because they are, themselves, powerful.

As politicians, governors, and police chiefs turn on them, increasingly with threats to disband police unions or reduce funding (which is mostly wages), it becomes clear police officers have a class interest. They should go on strike if management continues to be so hostile. This is labor politics.

Sure, but the police are not members of the proletariat. They, in any bourgeois dictatorship, are the enforcer arm of the bourgeois apparatus which keeps classes stratified. The most effective way for a police officer to reduce the power and influence of the bourgeois is to resign. This is mostly unique among occupations.

[Diopolis]

Is there an explanation for those of us that aren't communists?

What part of the IWW's argument do you disagree with?

1) Personal self defense against the police has been ruled justified before, IIRC.
2) The function of the police is to apprehend and punish criminals. This is, correctly, distinguished from personal self defence, but what the analysis forgets is that it's not, fundamentally, a protection of private property at the expense of personal property(see the next point as well). It's about requiring the state as a mediator between individuals with irresolvable disputes.
3) There is no real distinction between private and personal property. This is something that is made up to justify redistributionary policies.
4) There are multiple explanations for the police only resolving 19% of thefts that explain a bigger piece of the pie than incompetence, including that 65% of Americans that don't report stolen property.
5) Police are not expected to have concentration-camp-guard like willingness to do immoral things.

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

If financiers are intent on waging war on the people then the people are justified in organising their response.

General strike !!!

[Novus America]

Imagine being a leftist and not wanting to get the security forces on your side. How do you think the Bolsheviks won the Russian Civil War?

By rigging an election which they then lost despite rigging it, throwing a hissy fit over this fact and betraying their fellow revolutionaries.

But still they won. He who has the guns makes the rules. Your ideology ensures that you will be one of the victims in a hypothetical revolution rather than the victors.

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

who tf is making the next thread btw

[Cisairse]

By rigging an election which they then lost despite rigging it, throwing a hissy fit over this fact and betraying their fellow revolutionaries.

But still they won. He who has the guns makes the rules. Your ideology ensures that you will be one of the victims in a hypothetical revolution rather than the victors.

You do realize that people are protesting right now and being killed by police officers right now, right?

We're not talking about some hypothetical future.