RWDT XX: The System Is Kapp Putsch

[State of Turelisa]

Stop making me want to abolish suffrage.

How about we have the best system instead, where we divide our country up into thousands of local governments whose job it is to enact referendums, which are voted on publicly in the town square and only the chief of household can vote in the referendum the local government handles welfare, policing, green belt planning permissions, and local community services its leaders have to be local persons of note who are unpaid volunteers and subject to recall

and for non local issues the STATE is just a single party state which handles infrastructure, education, healthcare, the defence of the realm, etc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsgemeinde

[Novus America]

You tend to lose a degree of accountability when you step into the intersection of private and public interests because you're now mingling the public maintenance of law and order with a profit motive or relying on a less well-funded and well-disciplined force to not resort to corruption. It's much easier to implement reforms from within the government and to impose them on the state than to squabble with private firms or community watches that lack the same degree of accountability that an employee would have to his or her boss in the event of a mistake.

Private police receive adequate training, and some are former police officers. In private policing, local government awards the contract based on the provider's standards and cancels it if public opinion of performance is poor. The provider is accountable to the public.

In Minnesota, the political power of the police unions has impeded police reform - about half of police officers dismissed for malfeasance were reinstated after appeals.

Privatizing prison guards did not turn out very well.

They still have an economic incentive to cut costs and corners.

Now sure police unions may have too much power. Maybe public sector workers should not be allowed to be unionized. Federal police already and many other federal employees cannot be unionized already.

Unions are necessary in the private sector as private employees do not get the same due process rights a public sector workers.

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

what is lyft?

do they not have them in br*t**n?

I dont use any kind of fake taxi

no
fake
taxi

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

How about we have the best system instead, where we divide our country up into thousands of local governments whose job it is to enact referendums, which are voted on publicly in the town square and only the chief of household can vote in the referendum the local government handles welfare, policing, green belt planning permissions, and local community services its leaders have to be local persons of note who are unpaid volunteers and subject to recall

and for non local issues the STATE is just a single party state which handles infrastructure, education, healthcare, the defence of the realm, etc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsgemeinde

that was the point dude

[Novus America]

I won't rehash what I said about service = citizenship from XVIII, but basically it's a bad idea.

Democracy is a good thing to have when everyone is more or less equally affected by the outcome and everyone more or less knows each other. So, local elections for local purposes with head of household suffrage. For the central government, just no voting.

And I already went over why it would work. It is pragmatic.

But if the central government has no voting how is it selected and who holds it accountable then?

[Cisairse]

Private police receive adequate training, and some are former police officers. In private policing, local government awards the contract based on the provider's standards and cancels it if public opinion of performance is poor. The provider is accountable to the public.

In Minnesota, the political power of the police unions has impeded police reform - about half of police officers dismissed for malfeasance were reinstated after appeals.

Privatizing prison guards did not turn out very well.

They still have an economic incentive to cut costs and corners.

Now sure police unions may have too much power. Maybe public sector workers should not be allowed to be unionized. Federal police already and many other federal employees cannot be unionized already.

Unions are necessary in the private sector as private employees do not get the same due process rights a public sector workers.

There's plenty of public sector jobs that have similar power dynamics to private sector jobs, and thus really do need unions.

Police are not one of them.

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

Accountability is unnecessary. Democratic governments are rarely accountable anyway. Not the central ones.

There are many ways to choose a government other than democracy. Monarchy is one of them. The other is having the head of the judiciary be the head of state and the judiciary to select a head of government (or just be the head of government.) The other is to allow trade unions to decide. Etc.

[The East Marches II]

Did I really deserve to get lit up like that? That was very unpleasant! I am a good respectable gentleman. One might even say a saint really.

I know of no one who would call you any of these things, Marches.

Please, please there are a great many good gentlemen and ladies would can attest not only to my bravery but also my honesty. You can always trust a merchant :^)

Did I really deserve to get lit up like that?

the answer is always yes when you ask this question

That was very unpleasant! I am a good respectable gentleman. One might even say a saint really.

i'd agree, but i don't know any saints who could serve as precedent -- i don't believe there've been any with jaws as slack or skulls as empty

God damn. That was fucking spicy. Put on suicide watch by a Mormon. I'm turning in my Lutheran card.

[State of Turelisa]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsgemeinde

that was the point dude

And my point is that in Switzerland, where direct democracy is a tradition, the landsgemeinde is retained by only two of the twenty-six cantons. In those cantons, no higher than fifty-percent of citizens participate in them, despite incentives such as lowering the age of participation and free travel on all public transport on the days when they are held. Secret ballot is a part of true democracy.

[The East Marches II]

Privatizing prison guards did not turn out very well.

They still have an economic incentive to cut costs and corners.

Now sure police unions may have too much power. Maybe public sector workers should not be allowed to be unionized. Federal police already and many other federal employees cannot be unionized already.

Unions are necessary in the private sector as private employees do not get the same due process rights a public sector workers.

There's plenty of public sector jobs that have similar power dynamics to private sector jobs, and thus really do need unions.

Police are not one of them.

Why not? Why do certain workers get privileged position? Please defend as well your insane statement about the cop strike. We had 85 people shot in an unpoliced section of Chicago. Defend this as being better than a 1000 death a year. You'll be made to look a fool very shortly in a single city.

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

that was the point dude

And my point is that in Switzerland, where direct democracy is a tradition, the landsgemeinde is retained by only two of the twenty-six cantons. In those cantons, no higher than fifty-percent of citizens participate in them, despite incentives such as lowering the age of participation and free travel on all public transport on the days when they are held.

do you seriously want me to reply to this tier of comment

[The East Marches II]

No doubt our fine progressives simply don't care. It's ok if a 15 year old kid is burned alive in a trash can for not joining a gang, it's much better than being a sinner!

[Novus America]

Privatizing prison guards did not turn out very well.

They still have an economic incentive to cut costs and corners.

Now sure police unions may have too much power. Maybe public sector workers should not be allowed to be unionized. Federal police already and many other federal employees cannot be unionized already.

Unions are necessary in the private sector as private employees do not get the same due process rights a public sector workers.

There's plenty of public sector jobs that have similar power dynamics to private sector jobs, and thus really do need unions.

Police are not one of them.

I am willing to consider extending federal government unionization rules to the state and city levels. But teachers unions also probably have to go.

We cannot be hypocritical and pretend police are the only public employees where unions sometimes get in the way of accountability.

[Cekoviu]

the answer is always yes when you ask this question

i'd agree, but i don't know any saints who could serve as precedent -- i don't believe there've been any with jaws as slack or skulls as empty

God damn. That was fucking spicy. Put on suicide watch by a Mormon. I'm turning in my Lutheran card.

>me
>a mormon
DELET THIS SLANDER

No doubt our fine progressives simply don't care. It's ok if a 15 year old kid is burned alive in a trash can for not joining a gang, it's much better than being a sinner!

depends on the 15 y/o tbh, some of the ones i've met are real dicks

[The East Marches II]

God damn. That was fucking spicy. Put on suicide watch by a Mormon. I'm turning in my Lutheran card.

>me
>a mormon
DELET THIS SLANDER

No doubt our fine progressives simply don't care. It's ok if a 15 year old kid is burned alive in a trash can for not joining a gang, it's much better than being a sinner!

depends on the 15 y/o tbh, some of the ones i've met are real dicks

I was not aware Cekoviu was a gamer. God damn.

[Novus America]

Accountability is unnecessary. Democratic governments are rarely accountable anyway. Not the central ones.

There are many ways to choose a government other than democracy. Monarchy is one of them. The other is having the head of the judiciary be the head of state and the judiciary to select a head of government (or just be the head of government.) The other is to allow trade unions to decide. Etc.

Accountability is necessary even if our current universal suffrage model fails to achieve it.
You need a way to remove bad leaders.

Sure there are less democratic ways of doing that, but straight absolute monarch/dictatorship is not sustainable. It only works as long as the absolute monarch/dictator is good, get a shit one and its total shit.
You need something to protect yourself against a bad leader.

[Cekoviu]

>me
>a mormon
DELET THIS SLANDER

depends on the 15 y/o tbh, some of the ones i've met are real dicks

I was not aware Cekoviu was a gamer. God damn.

take that back right now

[The East Marches II]

I was not aware Cekoviu was a gamer. God damn.

take that back right now

Heated gamer moment word incoming :^)

[Cekoviu]

take that back right now

Heated gamer moment word incoming :^)

it's called an epic gamer moment you boomer

[Galloism]

Heated gamer moment word incoming :^)

it's called an epic gamer moment you boomer

Shots fired!

[The East Marches II]

Heated gamer moment word incoming :^)

it's called an epic gamer moment you boomer

[Fahran]

it's called an epic gamer moment you boomer

Shots fired!

The truth shouldn't constitute bullying. Marches is indeed a boomer.

[Diopolis]

I won't rehash what I said about service = citizenship from XVIII, but basically it's a bad idea.

Democracy is a good thing to have when everyone is more or less equally affected by the outcome and everyone more or less knows each other. So, local elections for local purposes with head of household suffrage. For the central government, just no voting.

We need an absurd hybrid system.
The first round should be selected by democratic means. Then a series of seventy-three cointosses determines the overall victor.

[Cekoviu]

I won't rehash what I said about service = citizenship from XVIII, but basically it's a bad idea.

Democracy is a good thing to have when everyone is more or less equally affected by the outcome and everyone more or less knows each other. So, local elections for local purposes with head of household suffrage. For the central government, just no voting.

We need an absurd hybrid system.
The first round should be selected by democratic means. Then a series of seventy-three cointosses determines the overall victor.

this is your best idea yet

[South Odreria 2]

We need an absurd hybrid system.
The first round should be selected by democratic means. Then a series of seventy-three cointosses determines the overall victor.

this is your best idea yet

Do you invent a new signature every day?