RWDT XX: The System Is Kapp Putsch

[Genivaria]

I will quote what I damn well want, and if you are unable to actually read what it says then that's entirely on you.

You're saying either a country or "just" its entire regime and government apparatus should be completely leveled.

"It doesn't specify the PRC" Are you just being contrary right now?
Are you that fucking dishonest you will lie about the fucking obvious?

...why would it matter that you specified "the PRC" instead of just "China"? In the most generous interpretation, you're still basically calling for the slaughter of millions and the violent overturn of a nuclear-armed government. Are we supposed to give you a gold star for not wanting to incinerate Taiwan, too?

Your imagination is your own boyo.
Not going to apologize for your assumptions.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Stop embarrassing yourself like "delenda est" doesn't refer explicitly to the slaughter of an entire population lol

Can you actually show where this was said or are you going to keep lying?

It's literally the meaning of your statement. It was the phrase that justified the Third Punic War, in which the entire Carthaginian population was slaughtered and the few survivors enslaved.

[Senkaku]

Stop embarrassing yourself like "delenda est" doesn't refer explicitly to the slaughter of an entire population lol

Can you actually show where this was said or are you going to keep lying?

UMN can you actually show where I ever said I want to genocide and enslave the Chinese people are will you admit that was a lie?

You should maybe, at this point, acknowledge that the "delenda est" bit is in bad taste- or embrace your genocidal side, idc either way, but this weird faux outrage is not flying. The term has very clear connotations, sticking your head in the sand about them is weird and a bad look.

[North German Realm]

The illusion that the passage of time equals reconciliation is a delusion suffered by men, not by states.

So you are saying we should punish ourselves today for the crimes other people committed in the past? That is just silly. And has little basis in sensible international relations.
Revanchism never lead to anything besides war.

France, Germany and Poland have been able to largely reconcile. Many countries go from enemies to friends. Revanchism is insanity if it prevents you from adapting to changing conditions.

That sort of reconciliation only happens when one country is in such a weaker place, militarily -and diplomatically- speaking, that it has no other option than to submit and pretend it's making amends for "age-old wrongs". Neither China nor any western power is in that position to try to submit, hoping everyone pretends its "making amends" for stuff that happened centuries ago -that nobody is really even remotely sorry for.

[Nap the Magnificent]

Umm we actually did place sanctions on Japan such that Japan decided to attack us. Remember that part? But anyways you pulled your little piece deliberately out of context.
Because I said although our actions were not altruistic nor even good I simply pointed out our goal (again for our own reasons) was to uphold the balance of power.

And again the fact we sometimes failed does not change that UMN claimed we want to control East Asia, when our goal was to maintain the balance of power. If our goal was to control it we clearly failed in that regard as well.

On the gates of Beijing thing remember the Chinese were threatening to rape and murder our embassy staff and their families. So who is using the Rose Tinted Glasses now? Convenient you forgot that little tidbit.

Embassy staff that we forced on them in the first place.

Which doesn't really justify the response the Boxers had towards them. I get that a lot of foreign policy discussions ITT are pretty pants on head retarded, but remember that constructivism goes for all nations not simply ones that oppose America.

[Genivaria]

Can you actually show where this was said or are you going to keep lying?

It's literally the meaning of your statement. It was the phrase that justified the Third Punic War, in which the entire Carthaginian population was slaughtered and the few survivors enslaved.

So you're basing the meaning of my statement not by what is actually said...but by how someone else used it?
Life must be very confusing for you.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It's literally the meaning of your statement. It was the phrase that justified the Third Punic War, in which the entire Carthaginian population was slaughtered and the few survivors enslaved.

So you're basing the meaning of my statement not by what is actually said...but by how someone else used it?
Life must be very confusing for you.

If I said "I seek a final solution to the American problem", you would rightly take that as a reference to the Holocaust.

[Novus America]

Can you actually show where this was said or are you going to keep lying?

UMN can you actually show where I ever said I want to genocide and enslave the Chinese people are will you admit that was a lie?

You should maybe, at this point, acknowledge that the "delenda est" bit is in bad taste- or embrace your genocidal side, idc either way, but this weird faux outrage is not flying. The term has very clear connotations, sticking your head in the sand about them is weird and a bad look.

Well more change it to whatever the Latin equivalent of the CCP would be.
Wanting to destroy a party is quite different than a country, nobody would blink if he said the Nazi Party must be destroyed.
But we are playing semantics here. His goal is to oppose the current party in power in Beijing, not the people.

[Genivaria]

Can you actually show where this was said or are you going to keep lying?

UMN can you actually show where I ever said I want to genocide and enslave the Chinese people are will you admit that was a lie?

You should maybe, at this point, acknowledge that the "delenda est" bit is in bad taste- or embrace your genocidal side, idc either way, but this weird faux outrage is not flying. The term has very clear connotations, sticking your head in the sand about them is weird and a bad look.

Yeah I'll be sure to moderate my condemnation of a totalitarian regime because of your outrage.

[Nap the Magnificent]

The faux outrage over the delenda est sig on both sides is pretty pathetic and annoying, tbpfh.

[United Muscovite Nations]

And again, Sina delenda est, I don't know if you know Latin at all, but that doesn't refer to the government of China. Sina explicitly refers to the nation and people of China.

[United Muscovite Nations]

You should maybe, at this point, acknowledge that the "delenda est" bit is in bad taste- or embrace your genocidal side, idc either way, but this weird faux outrage is not flying. The term has very clear connotations, sticking your head in the sand about them is weird and a bad look.

Yeah I'll be sure to moderate my condemnation of a totalitarian regime because of your outrage.

WRA is a famous proponent of the PRC, after all.

[Fahran]

So you are saying we should punish ourselves today for the crimes other people committed in the past? That is just silly. And has little basis in sensible international relations.
Revanchism never lead to anything besides war.

France, Germany and Poland have been able to largely reconcile. Many countries go from enemies to friends. Revanchism is insanity if it prevents you from adapting to changing conditions.

That sort of reconciliation only happens when one country is in such a weaker place, militarily -and diplomatically- speaking, that it has no other option than to submit and pretend it's making amends for "age-old wrongs". Neither China nor any western power is in that position to try to submit, hoping everyone pretends its "making amends" for stuff that happened centuries ago -that nobody is really even remotely sorry for.

You mean the French aren't sorry for ruining Europe?

[Senkaku]

No, he's saying we should see that for China, many of these things are still open historical wounds, and they'll be coming like bats out of hell to balance the scales for them if the West remains so haughty.

And they got there in no small part by German acknowledgement of Germany's terrible crimes and sincere apologies and compensation, as well as years of difficult diplomatic work where everyone strove to understand the historical sore points of their fellow Europeans. No such sensitivity has ever been directed towards China, by Japan or by anyone else- if you want to avoid revanchism, that's your road map. No one seems to be following it or even interested in following it.

I suspect that more than a few people here secretly yearn for a shooting war with the Chinese, frankly.

Oh they already are come at us like bats out of Hell, but I am just saying that is no reason for us to not fight back to the best of our abilities.
And again the worst crimes were not even committed by us, but if acknowledging we did some fucked up shit to them in the 1800s would make them feel better we can do so.

It absolutely would make them feel better, I think. Especially for Japan to finally apologize the way Germany has for its wartime atrocities- that would go a long ways not just in China, but also in South Korea. Imo, the Western powers should also apologize, and probably return some looted art.

But do you really think that would stop them? Change their strategies or goals?

I think there's evidence in Europe that it could. It's definitely not a sure thing, but I'd rather try my hand at diplomacy than get caught in a land war in Asia.

The Revanchism is the excuse, not the reason.

I'm aware. I'm suggesting we treat the disease; those suggesting we arm up for a long chain of escalation that will probably end in war are treating the symptoms.

[United Muscovite Nations]

You should maybe, at this point, acknowledge that the "delenda est" bit is in bad taste- or embrace your genocidal side, idc either way, but this weird faux outrage is not flying. The term has very clear connotations, sticking your head in the sand about them is weird and a bad look.

Well or change it to whatever the Latin equivalent of the CCP would be.
Wanting to destroy a party is quite different than a country, nobody would blink if he said the Nazi Party must be destroyed.

Yes.

[Nap the Magnificent]

Should I go back in time and get the Saddam memes to put the faux outrage to rest on both sides?

[Genivaria]

So you're basing the meaning of my statement not by what is actually said...but by how someone else used it?
Life must be very confusing for you.

If I said "I seek a final solution to the American problem", you would rightly take that as a reference to the Holocaust.

That would be a valid critic if I said anything remotely like that about a 'Chinese problem '.
You're not even criticizing my own statement anymore but a made up one.

[Washington Resistance Army]

You should maybe, at this point, acknowledge that the "delenda est" bit is in bad taste- or embrace your genocidal side, idc either way, but this weird faux outrage is not flying. The term has very clear connotations, sticking your head in the sand about them is weird and a bad look.

Yeah I'll be sure to moderate my condemnation of a totalitarian regime because of your outrage.

It's not outrage towards the regime, it's towards the nation and people.

This is why we should stick to languages we know smh

[Washington Resistance Army]

Should I go back in time and get the Saddam memes to put the faux outrage to rest on both sides?

Saddam is dead and we killed him, let him rest anon

[Fahran]

The faux outrage over the delenda est sig on both sides is pretty pathetic and annoying, tbpfh.

I thought it was a bad meme and acted accordingly, by ignoring it and envisioning even worse memes.

[Fahran]

Saddam is dead and we killed him, let him rest anon

The Lion of Tikrit is no more. Alas and woe. /s

[Imperium Romanum Sanctis]

The faux outrage over the delenda est sig on both sides is pretty pathetic and annoying, tbpfh.

Yes.

It's particularly disingenuous considering the very colourful views some of the posters have expressed on other matters in the past.

[North German Realm]

That sort of reconciliation only happens when one country is in such a weaker place, militarily -and diplomatically- speaking, that it has no other option than to submit and pretend it's making amends for "age-old wrongs". Neither China nor any western power is in that position to try to submit, hoping everyone pretends its "making amends" for stuff that happened centuries ago -that nobody is really even remotely sorry for.

You mean the French aren't sorry for ruining Europe?

The last time the French were sorry for anything it was 1815 lol.

[Nap the Magnificent]

The faux outrage over the delenda est sig on both sides is pretty pathetic and annoying, tbpfh.

I thought it was a bad meme and acted accordingly, by ignoring it and envisioning even worse memes.

If people keep getting angry over a dumb meme, Stalin will return from the grave and take all of our food away.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Should I go back in time and get the Saddam memes to put the faux outrage to rest on both sides?

The difference is that rhetoric influences things. If some Chinese guy comes on here and knows any Roman history or Latin, and he sees "China must be destroyed" in the sigs of a bunch of Americans, do you think he'll come off with the impression that these Americans support his freedom?

No one is unironically using Saddam memes as rhetoric to discuss current Iraqi politics and what American policy in Iraq should be.