NationStates

I don't have any issue with the T (though the T seems to take issue with the LGB frequently) but everything after "LGBTI" should be dropped, the "Q", the "P", the "NB", the "D", the polyamorous straight people acting like they should be included, the fetishists, exhibitionists, and sexual predators at pride parades giving everyone else a bad name, along with NAMBLA or related movements and anyone who associates with them or supports them in any way.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Cekoviu wrote:For now.

Tbf the LGB side of things would likely have almost no opposition anymore if trash like Pride went away.

The exhibitionists in parades and the repulsive hookup culture are problems, but to pretend that getting rid of them would get rid of almost all opposition to LGB people is to pretend that prejudiced homophobe dipshits were in some way provoked by their victims and are just responding to something we did wrong (victimblaming).

Anyone who would treat normal LGB people differently based on the actions of people who we don't have anything to do with and have zero control over has pretty obviously just come up with a retroactive excuse to justify their hatred. They would come up with something else if pride parades were a thing of the past.

Crockerland wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Tbf the LGB side of things would likely have almost no opposition anymore if trash like Pride went away.

The exhibitionists in parades and the repulsive hookup culture are problems, but to pretend that getting rid of them would get rid of almost all opposition to LGB people is to pretend that prejudiced homophobe dipshits were in some way provoked by their victims and are just responding to something we did wrong (victimblaming).

Anyone who would treat normal LGB people differently based on the actions of people who we don't have anything to do with and have zero control over has pretty obviously just come up with a retroactive excuse to justify their hatred. They would come up with something else if pride parades were a thing of the past.

This is actually a really good point.

Crockerland wrote:I don't have any issue with the T (though the T seems to take issue with the LGB frequently) but everything after "LGBTI" should be dropped, the "Q",

Nah. Some people ID as queer, and that's valid.

the "P",

Nope. Some people ID as pan, and that's valid.

the "NB",

NB people typically fall under the trans umbrella... I'm not aware of a variation of the acronym that includes NB people specifically. That said, there's no reason to take issue with NB people.

the "D",

The what now?

the polyamorous straight people acting like they should be included, the fetishists, exhibitionists, and sexual predators at pride parades giving everyone else a bad name, along with NAMBLA or related movements and anyone who associates with them or supports them in any way.

And the rest of this has nothing to do with acronyms at all. Curious you leave the A out, though...

Necroghastia wrote:

Crockerland wrote:the "D",

The what now?

The Deluxe.

Heloin wrote:

Necroghastia wrote:The what now?

The Deluxe.

I only date Deluxe Edition gays. The Gold Edition gays aren't as nice.

South Ccanda wrote:Yeah, I feel like sexuality and wanting to be/believing you are another gender should be separated, and not grouped together as one community.

Whilst Sexuality and Gender Identity are different things of course, the struggles of the LGB and Trans communities are intimately linked and always have been. That's why they are "grouped together as one community", because that's what LGB and Trans people did themselves for decades; they helped each other out and were there to support each other.

Necroghastia wrote:

Crockerland wrote:
NB people typically fall under the trans umbrella... I'm not aware of a variation of the acronym that includes NB people specifically. That said, there's no reason to take issue with NB people.

Personally, I distinguish between the two. To me, a transgender person is someone who transitioned between being male and being female (the two "primary" or "main" genders for lack of a better term) or vice versa, while an NB person is someone who's gender identity is a combination of the two, varies in some other way or neither etc. Stonewall even says some NB people don't see themselves as Trans.

Stanmenistan wrote:r.

Necroghastia wrote:

Personally, I distinguish between the two. To me, a transgender person is someone who transitioned between being male and being female (the two "primary" or "main" genders for lack of a better term) or vice versa, while an NB person is someone who's gender identity is a combination of the two, varies in some other way or neither etc. Stonewall even says some NB people don't see themselves as Trans.

I've never met an NB person who didn't also consider themselves trans. I'd like to see their data on that. Either way, I've always considered the term as referring to someone who transitioned away from their assigned gender.

Stanmenistan wrote:

South Ccanda wrote:Yeah, I feel like sexuality and wanting to be/believing you are another gender should be separated, and not grouped together as one community.

Whilst Sexuality and Gender Identity are different things of course, the struggles of the LGB and Trans communities are intimately linked and always have been. That's why they are "grouped together as one community", because that's what LGB and Trans people did themselves for decades; they helped each other out and were there to support each other.

Necroghastia wrote:

Personally, I distinguish between the two. To me, a transgender person is someone who transitioned between being male and being female (the two "primary" or "main" genders for lack of a better term) or vice versa, while an NB person is someone who's gender identity is a combination of the two, varies in some other way or neither etc. Stonewall even says some NB people don't see themselves as Trans.

So what's a cisgender person, in your mind? Someone who cisitioned?

Necroghastia wrote:

Stanmenistan wrote:r.


Personally, I distinguish between the two. To me, a transgender person is someone who transitioned between being male and being female (the two "primary" or "main" genders for lack of a better term) or vice versa, while an NB person is someone who's gender identity is a combination of the two, varies in some other way or neither etc. Stonewall even says some NB people don't see themselves as Trans.

I've never met an NB person who didn't also consider themselves trans. I'd like to see their data on that. Either way, I've always considered the term as referring to someone who transitioned away from their assigned gender.

I have family members who identify as nonbinary and do not identify as trans.

Ifreann wrote:

Stanmenistan wrote:Whilst Sexuality and Gender Identity are different things of course, the struggles of the LGB and Trans communities are intimately linked and always have been. That's why they are "grouped together as one community", because that's what LGB and Trans people did themselves for decades; they helped each other out and were there to support each other.


Personally, I distinguish between the two. To me, a transgender person is someone who transitioned between being male and being female (the two "primary" or "main" genders for lack of a better term) or vice versa, while an NB person is someone who's gender identity is a combination of the two, varies in some other way or neither etc. Stonewall even says some NB people don't see themselves as Trans.

So what's a cisgender person, in your mind? Someone who cisitioned?

I cisition every morning when I wake up

Cisairse wrote:

Necroghastia wrote:I've never met an NB person who didn't also consider themselves trans. I'd like to see their data on that. Either way, I've always considered the term as referring to someone who transitioned away from their assigned gender.

I have family members who identify as nonbinary and do not identify as trans.

If you identify differently from your original biological sex then you are trans. Whether you think you are trans or not does not matter. Intersexuals are the only NB people that are not trans.

Agarntrop wrote:

Cisairse wrote:
I have family members who identify as nonbinary and do not identify as trans.

If you identify differently from your original biological sex then you are trans. Whether you think you are trans or not does not matter. Intersexuals are the only NB people that are not trans.

What makes your opinion on the gender status of non-binary people more important than their own opinions?

Cisairse wrote:

Agarntrop wrote:If you identify differently from your original biological sex then you are trans. Whether you think you are trans or not does not matter. Intersexuals are the only NB people that are not trans.

What makes your opinion on the gender status of non-binary people more important than their own opinions?

Its not my opinion its the literal definition.

Agarntrop wrote:

Cisairse wrote:
What makes your opinion on the gender status of non-binary people more important than their own opinions?

Its not my opinion its the literal definition.

And your source of "the literal definition" is...what, exactly?

Kannap wrote:

Heloin wrote:The Deluxe.

I only date Deluxe Edition gays. The Gold Edition gays aren't as nice.

My girlfriend is still in the original packaging.

Agarntrop wrote:

Cisairse wrote:
What makes your opinion on the gender status of non-binary people more important than their own opinions?

Its not my opinion its the literal definition.

It's not though.

A trans nonbinary person is someone who doesn’t identify with the sex that was assigned at birth (trans) and also has a gender identity that can’t be categorized as exclusively male or female (nonbinary).

A nonbinary person who doesn’t identify as trans may partially identify with the sex assigned at birth, as well as have a gender identity that can’t be categorized as strictly male or female.

Cisairse wrote:

Agarntrop wrote:Its not my opinion its the literal definition.

And your source of "the literal definition" is...what, exactly?

Literally the first line of the wikipedia article on being trans:

"Transgender people have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from their sex assigned at birth."

If you were not born intersex, then being nonbinary automatically makes you transgender.

Agarntrop wrote:

Cisairse wrote:
And your source of "the literal definition" is...what, exactly?

wikipedia

Got it.

Necroghastia wrote:

Crockerland wrote:I don't have any issue with the T (though the T seems to take issue with the LGB frequently) but everything after "LGBTI" should be dropped, the "Q",

Nah. Some people ID as queer, and that's valid.

It means about as much as "demisexual", which I think might be the "D" he was referring to.

Cisairse wrote:

Agarntrop wrote: wikipedia

Got it.

what? so wikipedia is somehow controlled by terfs?

Agarntrop wrote:

Cisairse wrote:
And your source of "the literal definition" is...what, exactly?

Literally the first line of the wikipedia article on being trans:

"Transgender people have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from their sex assigned at birth."

If you were not born intersex, then being nonbinary automatically makes you transgender.

Bzzzzz wrongo.

While some nonbinary people are transgender, not all of them are.

Kannap wrote:

Agarntrop wrote:Literally the first line of the wikipedia article on being trans:

"Transgender people have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from their sex assigned at birth."

If you were not born intersex, then being nonbinary automatically makes you transgender.

Bzzzzz wrongo.

While some nonbinary people are transgender, not all of them are.

I agree, intersex people are nonbinary and not transgender, so we're on the same page.

Agarntrop wrote:

Cisairse wrote:
Got it.

what? so wikipedia is somehow controlled by terfs?

I shouldn't have to explain to you that wikipedia is no more authoritative than anecdotes from people with knowledge of the thing the articles talk about.

But if you insist on using Wikipedia, you'll find that their article on non-binary gender leaves open the possibility for non-binary individuals to not be transgender.

Cisairse wrote:

Agarntrop wrote:what? so wikipedia is somehow controlled by terfs?

I shouldn't have to explain to you that wikipedia is no more authoritative than anecdotes from people with knowledge of the thing the articles talk about.

But if you insist on using Wikipedia, you'll find that their article on non-binary gender leaves open the possibility for non-binary individuals to not be transgender.

Yes, if theyre intersex