[POLL] Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual vs. Transexual

[Kannap]

I certainly understand why a seemingly ever growing amount of LGB people want to disassociate from the T and others such letters of the acronym. Republicans told us gay marriage was going to be a slippery slope and advocates for it at the time said that was insanity but it's been proven true. Given the declining support for LGBT+ peoples and groups it makes a certain amount of sense that the people who've already won their rights want to jump ship to try and preserve them.

As for whether that should happen or not I can't really say. It doesn't impact me in any way and I have no firm opinions on it really.

While support overall for LGBT+ rights is declining support for just LGB issues remains the same. Which really leads you to think why the hell you should allow the T+ to drag your group down.

Once we cast away the transgender crowd and they get trounced by anti-trans political movements, are those anti-trans political movements going to just dissolve at the end or are we going to have to draw straws to figure out if lesbians, gays, or bisexuals are next on the chopping block?

[Kannap]

I'm a mixed race gay person and I'm with Ifreann on this.

You’re not gay.

Oh boy the Necroghastia's sexuality expert has logged on.

[Cekoviu]

Because a lot of opposition to Trans people is literally just the assumption that trans = super gay.

A lot of it also probably has to do with irrational disgust and perceived “ickyness” of trans people, kinda like how a bit of opposition to gay people back in the day the day was, I.e. “ew, they have butt secks and kiss each other, gross, can’t have any of that” but more vitriolic.

Right. Because ignorant people think trans people all pass very poorly, since those are the only people they actually notice are trans, and the non-passing ones are considered ugly.

[Kannap]

Uhm... how could you possibly know that?

They are a trans “woman” they aren’t gay at all because they aren’t a woman.

Oh well now that you've made it clear you're transphobic, I don't have to listen to anything else you say about trans people as if you have any credibility.

[Nakena]

You’re not gay.

Oh boy the Necroghastia's sexuality expert has logged on.

I am having a gay time tonight.

[Cekoviu]

They are a trans “woman” they aren’t gay at all because they aren’t a woman.

Oh well now that you've made it clear you're transphobic, I don't have to listen to anything else you say about trans people as if you have any credibility.

You should hear his ideas for curing gender dysphoria lol

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I don’t think separating transgender people from the umbrella grouping of the LBG community is necessary.

[Kannap]

Oh well now that you've made it clear you're transphobic, I don't have to listen to anything else you say about trans people as if you have any credibility.

You should hear his ideas for curing gender dysphoria lol

I've already heard enough lol, I don't need to hear that.

[Cekoviu]

You should hear his ideas for curing gender dysphoria lol

I've already heard enough lol, I don't need to hear that.

Yeah that's absolutely fair, they're very terrible.

[Cisairse]

I don’t think separating transgender people from the umbrella grouping of the LBG community is necessary.

Not even just unnecessary, it's actively detrimental to both groups.

[Bromagia]

The LGBT "community" isn't something I consider myself a part of, though I am bisexual. There's a lot of weird exhibitionist and deliberately provocative shit that I'm not down with, as well as the agitation and nuisance making of the activist types. Even if all that wasn't true, I'm not interested in associations based on immutable traits. That's why I'd never join a men's association, either. So whether you include Trans with LGB doesn't matter much to me. It does seem a little odd since Trans isn't an orientation but it really doesn't effect me at all.

[Kannap]

The LGBT "community" isn't something I consider myself a part of, though I am bisexual. There's a lot of weird exhibitionist and deliberately provocative shit that I'm not down with, as well as the agitation and nuisance making of the activist types. Even if all that wasn't true, I'm not interested in associations based on immutable traits. That's why I'd never join a men's association, either. So whether you include Trans with LGB doesn't matter much to me. It does seem a little odd since Trans isn't an orientation but it really doesn't effect me at all.

Yeah, trans isn't an orientation, but somebody posted a good venn diagram on the last page: The majority of transgender people are LGB as well. So trying to separate the T from the rest isn't nearly as easy as saying "shoo" and "y'all go on now, git!" The majority of them would still be part of the LGB community itself, just some folks want to make the LGBT community as hostile towards trans people as the anti-trans side is.

[Aggicificicerous]

Nevertheless, I sometimes feel uneasy about lumping LGB people and TQIA+++ people together because ultimately, they deal with different matters.

There's some truth there, but not as much as you seem to think. LGBT people have historically shared the same spaces, faced the same discrimination, and fought for the same rights. Trans people have been a part of the movement since before there was a movement. Now gay bashing is falling out of favour, but the vitriol behind it is intact; it's just been recycled and redirected at trans people. That's why they're now the ones being called mentally ill, or perverts and child abusers, or a drain on society. This might help to explain why some younger LGB people are starting to see trans people as superfluous. They haven't grown up with this abuse and can't relate to it.

It seems a shame after so much progress in securing LGBT rights to just turn away from trans people and tell them to deal with it alone, especially since much of that progress came because of trans people. Then again, I've also noticed that almost without fail, the people pushing for separation have an axe to grind.

Oh well now that you've made it clear you're transphobic, I don't have to listen to anything else you say about trans people as if you have any credibility.

You should hear his ideas for curing gender dysphoria lol

Careful now, don't you know that he's both gay and mixed race? Sounds like you two might need to check your privileges.

[Bromagia]

The LGBT "community" isn't something I consider myself a part of, though I am bisexual. There's a lot of weird exhibitionist and deliberately provocative shit that I'm not down with, as well as the agitation and nuisance making of the activist types. Even if all that wasn't true, I'm not interested in associations based on immutable traits. That's why I'd never join a men's association, either. So whether you include Trans with LGB doesn't matter much to me. It does seem a little odd since Trans isn't an orientation but it really doesn't effect me at all.

Yeah, trans isn't an orientation, but somebody posted a good venn diagram on the last page: The majority of transgender people are LGB as well. So trying to separate the T from the rest isn't nearly as easy as saying "shoo" and "y'all go on now, git!" The majority of them would still be part of the LGB community itself, just some folks want to make the LGBT community as hostile towards trans people as the anti-trans side is.

That may well be. Of course, just because X number of members are Y doesn't mean Y should be a perogative, necessarily.

I find such associations unappealing anyway. Again, if people want to group themselves that way or not, I don't care.

To OP: can we get a third option in the poll?

[Cekoviu]

You should hear his ideas for curing gender dysphoria lol

Careful now, don't you know that he's both gay and mixed race? Sounds like you two might need to check your privileges.

Oh shit, I had no idea. I take it all back; it's not bigotry if you're oppressed.

[Thermodolia]

While support overall for LGBT+ rights is declining support for just LGB issues remains the same. Which really leads you to think why the hell you should allow the T+ to drag your group down.

Once we cast away the transgender crowd and they get trounced by anti-trans political movements, are those anti-trans political movements going to just dissolve at the end or are we going to have to draw straws to figure out if lesbians, gays, or bisexuals are next on the chopping block?

They are anti-trans movements not anti-LGB

[Cekoviu]

Once we cast away the transgender crowd and they get trounced by anti-trans political movements, are those anti-trans political movements going to just dissolve at the end or are we going to have to draw straws to figure out if lesbians, gays, or bisexuals are next on the chopping block?

They are anti-trans movements not anti-LGB

For now.

[Nakena]

Once we cast away the transgender crowd and they get trounced by anti-trans political movements, are those anti-trans political movements going to just dissolve at the end or are we going to have to draw straws to figure out if lesbians, gays, or bisexuals are next on the chopping block?

They are anti-trans movements not anti-LGB

What is your legendary treatment for gender dysphoria?

Like the Therm-Treatment. It had been hotly debated here but sans details.

[Washington Resistance Army]

They are anti-trans movements not anti-LGB

For now.

Tbf the LGB side of things would likely have almost no opposition anymore if trash like Pride went away.

[Nakena]

For now.

Tbf the LGB side of things would likely have almost no opposition anymore if trash like Pride went away.

Pride Parades are central to the rainbow flag culture thing though.

[Bromagia]

For now.

Tbf the LGB side of things would likely have almost no opposition anymore if trash like Pride went away.

Yeah, Pride isn't helpful.

[Kannap]

Once we cast away the transgender crowd and they get trounced by anti-trans political movements, are those anti-trans political movements going to just dissolve at the end or are we going to have to draw straws to figure out if lesbians, gays, or bisexuals are next on the chopping block?

They are anti-trans movements not anti-LGB

lol and when they finish whatever work they've got to finish with trans people and need to keep their momentum going and set sights on a new target, who're they going to set their sights on?

[Albrenia]

Tbf the LGB side of things would likely have almost no opposition anymore if trash like Pride went away.

Yeah, Pride isn't helpful.

Considering it's a big part of what won them the support they have, it's been pretty helpful in the past.

Anyway, people have the right to party (well, not right now, but in general) if they're not hurting anyone.

[Kannap]

For now.

Tbf the LGB side of things would likely have almost no opposition anymore if trash like Pride went away.

It's about as harmful as the rest of the festivals they have downtown during festival season. If we get rid of Pride, are we also going to get rid of the Jewish food festival, the Latin American festival, and Yoga weekend festival?

[Kannap]

Tbf the LGB side of things would likely have almost no opposition anymore if trash like Pride went away.

Pride Parades are central to the rainbow flag culture thing though.

See, I'm bombarded 24/7 by heteros in media and surrounded by straights literally all the time. Is it too much to ask to have one day a year where I can be surrounded by other LGBT people?