Pagan Discussion Thread III

[The Wiccan Israel]

Merry meet! Welcome to the third edition of the Pagan Discussion Thread.

Previous Threads:
Pagan Discussion Thread
Pagan Discussion Thread II — For continuity’s sake, I will carry on this edition’s OP and include it here.

---

What is paganism?

Modern Paganism refers to a collection of new religious movements, but drawing lines between what is and is not paganism is difficult. Often, paganism refers to reconstructed religions from pre-Christian Europe, forms of modern witchcraft, or modern interpretations of ancient religions and mythology. Typically, paganism is not an organized religion, without much dogma or orthodoxy, and many pagans are not part of a pagan community. Wicca, Asatru/Heathenry, Druidism, Rodnovery, Hellenism and many other traditions all fit under the label "modern paganism".

---

Possible Topics

• National Pagan Organizations
• Historical Sources and their Accuracy
• Forums, Blogs, Subreddits or Podcasts
• Ritual and Altarwork
• Pagan Art or Music
• Witchcraft
• Pagan Theology
• Left-Hand Paths within Paganism

---

Pagan Resources

Interfaith

• r/pagan and r/paganism
• Patheos Pagan Channel
• Gods and Radicals

Slavic Paganism

• Lug Velesa (Serbian Rodnovery) and their Youtube Channel
• Rodna-Vjera (Slavic Pagan Tumblr)
• Slavorum (Often has news about Eastern European Paganism or information about mythology)
• The Slavic Polytheist (Blog)
• r/Rodnovery

Heathenry/Asatru

• Heathen Talk or Nordic Journeys on Youtube (Heathenry/Asatru)
• r/Asatru
• The Road to Asgard (Left-Hand, Odinism)
• Jackson Crawford (Academic, Old Norse Expert)
• Sundorwic Hearth (Anglo-Saxon Heathenry)

Celtic Polytheism

• r/druidism
• r/Paganacht

Greco-Roman Polytheism

• Elani Temperance (Hellenismos Youtube)
• Baring the Aegis (Blog)
• Hellenion
• r/Hellenism
• Labrys (Hellenic Polytheist Organization in Greece)
• Pomegranateandivy (Hellenic, Tumblr)
• Cultus Deorum Romanorum (Nova Roma)

Wicca/Pagan Witchcraft

• r/Wicca
• The Celtic Connection
• Phyllis Curott / HowCast Collaboration (Youtube Playlist)

---

As you can probably assume, I am staunch follower of Wicca, which is typically duotheistic and of course Earth-based. I’ve chosen to work with deities from the Lusitanian and Celtic pantheons as they are relevant to my ancestral homeland of Portugal. My journey began not that long ago and I for one have much to learn.

If you feel that a resource should be mentioned here, mention it below.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I always enjoy seeing one of these pop up, even if they don't tend to last long because of our small demographics on NS.

I don't have a lot to contribute at the moment because it's a fairly busy day for me but for the Greco-Roman section I'd replace r/HellenicPolytheism with r/Hellenism. The sub was closed and migrated to the new one a while ago.

[Nakena]

I fit under the Left-Hand Paths within Paganism category.

[The Wiccan Israel]

I always enjoy seeing one of these pop up, even if they don't tend to last long because of our small demographics on NS.

I don't have a lot to contribute at the moment because it's a fairly busy day for me but for the Greco-Roman section I'd replace r/HellenicPolytheism with r/Hellenism. The sub was closed and migrated to the new one a while ago.

Added! Thank you.

I fit under the Left-Hand Paths within Paganism category.

Snazzy. What compelled you begin your journey in the occult?

[Purple Rats]

If you are into Paganism, I recommend to read about Estonian Mythology.

And also about "Maausk" (faith of a land): https://floridaestos.files.wordpress.co ... omepuu.pdf

[Nakena]

I fit under the Left-Hand Paths within Paganism category.

Snazzy. What compelled you begin your journey in the occult?

Most people probably are like, "oh nice that does sound groovy lets try this out" and they start reading some books and try out hard to be that stuff.

For me it was the other way around. I didn looked for it at all. It wasnt on my radar. Occult stuff? Yeah it can be surely interesting but most it is just amusing nonsense.

Now then when I was researching some unrelated stuff I came across some sauces and thought "okay lets see what this stuff is about". I expected something funny or weird.

But when I began to studying them it was basically like "wow, this is totally me!" and many of the teachings and ways I've had myself experienced throughout my life and followed for many years without knowing that there was actually a name or system for it. Almost as if by the book. It was like "I know this all somehow, thats what I have always been".

[Kowani]

Can I just mention how nice it is that y’have actual resources, even if these threads never last?

[Hanafuridake]

I always enjoy seeing one of these pop up, even if they don't tend to last long because of our small demographics on NS.

I know the feeling.

[Kowani]

I always enjoy seeing one of these pop up, even if they don't tend to last long because of our small demographics on NS.

Yep, been there.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I always enjoy seeing one of these pop up, even if they don't tend to last long because of our small demographics on NS.

I know the feeling.

Pagan-Buddhist solidarity, we will take over NS one day.

[Rovid-9]

I'll keep an eye on this thread! i'm personally agnostic, but occultic knowledge and pagan religion have always been interesting to me.

[Hanafuridake]

My religious practices don't fall under paganism, but ancestor worship is the one I'm most significantly attached to.

[The Wiccan Israel]

Snazzy. What compelled you begin your journey in the occult?

Most people probably are like, "oh nice that does sound groovy lets try this out" and they start reading some books and try out hard to be that stuff.

For me it was the other way around. I didn looked for it at all. It wasnt on my radar. Occult stuff? Yeah it can be surely interesting but most it is just amusing nonsense.

Now then when I was researching some unrelated stuff I came across some sauces and thought "okay lets see what this stuff is about". I expected something funny or weird.

But when I began to studying them it was basically like "wow, this is totally me!" and many of the teachings and ways I've had myself experienced throughout my life and followed for many years without knowing that there was actually a name or system for it. Almost as if by the book. It was like "I know this all somehow, thats what I have always been".

Wow, I‘m glad you found your spiritual calling. A lot of people feel a bit disoriented when they read the words “occult” and “witchcraft” (happened to me before when I looked up the Wikipedia definition of Wicca). But with research, one’ll better understand what each of those words mean. No research is ever quite complete. There’s always a chance to learn more!

Can I just mention how nice it is that y’have actual resources, even if these threads never last?

Resources in a thread are quite important, even for non-pagans who seek to learn more about our ways.

I know the feeling.

Pagan-Buddhist solidarity, we will take over NS one day.

Pagans of the world, unite!

My religious practices don't fall under paganism, but ancestor worship is the one I'm most significantly attached to.

I never really delved into ancestor worship, but I hope to do so when Samhain rolls around.

If you don’t mind me asking, where do your religious practice fall under?

[Cameroi]

i don't exactly "worship" anything, because i don't believe in the goodness of wishing to be feared.
but i do believe non-physical things that are self aware can be communed with psionically.
and that all life forms, just like our own, have a non-physical component,
that self awareness is itself a thing that exists nonphysically, and not merely an emergent phinomina of ceribral activity.

i don't have an actual schedule of ritual, but i do try to observe the primal points of the year for example, the solstices and equanoxes.

also, i try to treat everything i encounter in my mind as a friend.
not always as a guide, but as a friend.

and there are these encounters i've had in nature, that i welcome.

i've also read things that have been writen about ritual, but they really don't feel the same.

[Hanafuridake]

My religious practices don't fall under paganism, but ancestor worship is the one I'm most significantly attached to.

I never really delved into ancestor worship, but I hope to do so when Samhain rolls around.

If you don’t mind me asking, where do your religious practice fall under?

Buddhism.

[Sundiata]

Huh.

[Auze]

I have to at least credit the fact that you acknowledge the past attempts of making this discussion thread, rather than saying "It will totally work this time, I promise!", like a certain other thread series.

[Lost Memories]

I've a suggestion to spice this thread up.

Add to the poll the option:
"Watching lots of porn (for the glory of satan, of course)"
or the more refined version: (and allowed by forum rules)
"Hedonism"

That could give this thread the push it needs to get off, i mean take off.


It goes without saying, but it's worth mentioning, that there is difference between being a fan of history or folklore, and being an active adherent to a cult (organized or individual). The former ones, as much as they would like to role-play the part, aren't pagans.
The above could be an other topic of discussion to have here.
How much present paganism is lived with commitment, and how much of it is just a temporary fad? (or is used as a sock by the irreligious to fill their need of belonging, without any sense of loyalty when it becomes inconvenient)

[Rovid-9]

I've a suggestion to spice this thread up.

Add to the poll the option:
"Watching lots of porn (for the glory of satan, of course)"
or the more refined version: (and allowed by forum rules)
"Hedonism"

That could give this thread the push it needs to get off, i mean take off.


It goes without saying, but it's worth mentioning, that there is difference between being a fan of history or folklore, and being an active adherent to a cult (organized or individual). The former ones, as much as they would like to role-play the part, aren't pagans.
The above could be an other topic of discussion to have here.
How much present paganism is lived with commitment, and how much of it is just a temporary fad? (or is used as a sock by the irreligious to fill their need of belonging, without any sense of loyalty when it becomes inconvenient)

I personally believe it's hard to answer that question, as it isn't so black and white! Paganism is inherently more open or "free form" than other schools of thoughts or religions. Their may be certian pagan practices that are best done at certian times of the year, or under certian conditions, but paganism as a whole is a decentralized religious practice. This makes it hard to define "commitment", as their isn't a standard for how much one has to indulge paganism for it to be considered "adequete"; there is neither a religious standard, or a societal standard (an example of a societal standard would be that most christians are expected to attend church at least once a week, and that the best time to do so is on sunday).

[Nakena]

Huh.

Surprised?

[Sharania]

I have a question for the believers in Hellenistic pantheon (sorry, if I use a wrong term here).

Do you believe that Apollo slew the dragon?

If your answer is “Yes”, then explain, how *you think* it happened.

[Lost Memories]

It goes without saying, but it's worth mentioning, that there is difference between being a fan of history or folklore, and being an active adherent to a cult (organized or individual). The former ones, as much as they would like to role-play the part, aren't pagans.
The above could be an other topic of discussion to have here.
How much present paganism is lived with commitment, and how much of it is just a temporary fad? (or is used as a sock by the irreligious to fill their need of belonging, without any sense of loyalty when it becomes inconvenient)

I personally believe it's hard to answer that question, as it isn't so black and white! Paganism is inherently more open or "free form" than other schools of thoughts or religions. Their may be certian pagan practices that are best done at certian times of the year, or under certian conditions, but paganism as a whole is a decentralized religious practice. This makes it hard to define "commitment", as their isn't a standard for how much one has to indulge paganism for it to be considered "adequete"; there is neither a religious standard, or a societal standard (an example of a societal standard would be that most christians are expected to attend church at least once a week, and that the best time to do so is on sunday).

The standard doesn't have to be an official one, it can also be a personal standard. (even if, people ascribing to the same cult and having different standards, talks poorly about that cult consistence)
Without a boundary, any person on earth would be a pagan, and at the same time, no one would be a pagan. Which would make the label "pagan" a meaningless one.

To say, how do you recognize a wicca from a norse?
How do you recognize a wicca from a fan of harry potter?
Or what difference is there between a norse and a fan of the avengers?
What makes someone meditating different from someone resting their eyes?

Or more interestingly, how do you recognize a norse pagan from someone with north european culture and/or local traditions?
Isn't the pagan label just conflated with cultural customs?
Is paganism just cultural customs (local or appropriated from others) with esoterism added into it?

Would the presence of superstition and/or esoterism be the boundary from a pagan and just a person with cultural traditions?
Or are the various cultural traditions, just used as reference to give more credibility to something(paganism) which otherwise would be superstition by itself?
So is paganism just the superstition or esoterism, regardless of the cultural background used as host?


Rewording the previous question then:
How much present pagans are into superstition or esoterism? And how many of them aren't, but just like the folklore?
What is the share? 1to5 esoterists to folklorists?

[The Wiccan Israel]

I personally believe it's hard to answer that question, as it isn't so black and white! Paganism is inherently more open or "free form" than other schools of thoughts or religions. Their may be certian pagan practices that are best done at certian times of the year, or under certian conditions, but paganism as a whole is a decentralized religious practice. This makes it hard to define "commitment", as their isn't a standard for how much one has to indulge paganism for it to be considered "adequete"; there is neither a religious standard, or a societal standard (an example of a societal standard would be that most christians are expected to attend church at least once a week, and that the best time to do so is on sunday).

The standard doesn't have to be an official one, it can also be a personal standard. (even if, people ascribing to the same cult and having different standards, talks poorly about that cult consistence)
Without a boundary, any person on earth would be a pagan, and at the same time, no one would be a pagan. Which would make the label "pagan" a meaningless one.

To say, how do you recognize a wicca from a norse?
How do you recognize a wicca from a fan of harry potter?
Or what difference is there between a norse and a fan of the avengers?
What makes someone meditating different from someone resting their eyes?

Or more interestingly, how do you recognize a norse pagan from someone with north european culture and/or local traditions?
Isn't the pagan label just conflated with cultural customs?
Is paganism just cultural customs (local or appropriated from others) with esoterism added into it?

Would the presence of superstition and/or esoterism be the boundary from a pagan and just a person with cultural traditions?
Or are the various cultural traditions, just used as reference to give more credibility to something(paganism) which otherwise would be superstition by itself?
So is paganism just the superstition or esoterism, regardless of the cultural background used as host?


Rewording the previous question then:
How much present pagans are into superstition or esoterism? And how many of them aren't, but just like the folklore?
What is the share? 1to5 esoterists to folklorists?

"How do you recognize a Wicca from a fan of Harry Potter?" Try asking them.

As much of conundrum as it may be, it would be antithetical to single out the pagans from the non-pagans (outside of those who already claim to follow an organized religion or no religion). If a folklorist claims to be pagan, then they are a pagan. Anyone who says otherwise does so vainly.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I have a question for the believers in Hellenistic pantheon (sorry, if I use a wrong term here).

Do you believe that Apollo slew the dragon?

If your answer is “Yes”, then explain, how *you think* it happened.

It's just a story like any other really. There are exceptionally few Hellenists who view the corpus of mythology as literal events, even in ancient times more often than not a great deal of them were seen as allegorical stories.

[Sharania]

It's just a story like any other really.

First question – are you a believer in Hellenistic pantheon?

Second question – calling a principal myth about major deity “a story like any other”… really?

There are exceptionally few Hellenists who view the corpus of mythology as literal events, even in ancient times

For Plutarch both Theseus and Romulus (plus all the gods that featured prominently in their lives) were real. For him Centaurs and Amazon invasion of Athens were real, as well as the siege of Troy. He constantly quotes other Greeks who thought likewise. Greeks living before him also did not doubt that their myths and legends were 100% true. The exceptions were rare and ended up badly.

Are you saying then, that modern so-called “Hellenists” (or any other pagans for that matter) don’t believe in their own religion?

a great deal of them were seen as allegorical stories

How do you know if anything is true at all? What is the source of your faith? Also – can you claim to represent (neo?)pagans at large?

So, I repeat my question to those whom I asked: "Do you believe that god Apollo slew the dragon?"