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What constitutes a legitimate definition of communism?

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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What constitutes a legitimate definition of communism?

Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:12 pm

So des[ote my clear pattern of opposition to the current Chinese regime, there is one particular subset of it that always bothered me, and that is when people blame "communism" for its woes.

This strikes me as weird. Most of the world doesn't take China's word for being a "people's republic," so why do they take its word for being "communist?"

Karl Marx, in the book in which he invented the word "communist," claimed that capitalism was so exploitative it would collapse in on itself, paving the way for collective ownership of the means of production. Doesn't this mean that, since the Bolsheviks overthrew an autocracy, ant the Chinese communist party seized power in a civil war, while the USA has capitalists getting rich enough to buy politicians' loyalty on behalf of non-capitalistic policies, that the USA is closer to communism than China or the Soviet Union ever were, while none of those three quite count as communist?

And if Karl Marx's definition doesn't count, by what standard do the rest of us get to redefine a word that was never ours to redefine?
Last edited by LimaUniformNovemberAlpha on Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.

How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.

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Postby Cekoviu » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:13 pm

Communism is when your gender identity doesn't match your assigned sex at birth.
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Postby Stagnant Axon Terminal » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:16 pm

Communism is when the government does stuff, and the more stuff the do the communister it is.
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Postby Purple Rats » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:33 pm

For the fascist in our country, everyone who does not agree with them, is communist. :lol2:

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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:44 pm

Communism is when you change video game protagonists from straight white men to women and minorities. As this will bring about the end goal of leftism, which is the genocide of gamers, the most oppressed minority.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:47 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Communism is when you change video game protagonists from straight white men to women and minorities. As this will bring about the end goal of leftism, which is the genocide of gamers, the most oppressed minority.

This, but unironically.
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Postby Cekoviu » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:50 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Communism is when you change video game protagonists from straight white men to women and minorities. As this will bring about the end goal of leftism, which is the genocide of gamers, the most oppressed minority.

This, but unironically.

This but unironically, but unironically.
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Postby Kragholm Free States » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:52 pm

Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:Communism is when the government does stuff, and the more stuff the do the communister it is.


This but unironically.
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Postby Aclion » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:57 pm

I think the "that's not real communism, that's ..." argument has always been a flat one. That explicitly communist movements, upon seizing power for the explicit purpose of implementing communism repeatedly fail to implement it and instead produce fascism/state capitalism/ect is just as much a condemnation of communist movements as if they had succeeded and it had devolved into it later.
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:58 pm

Communism is when your leadership alternates between being bald and hairy.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:01 pm

I feel as weird calling them communist as I feel calling Sicilians "white." Just look at the state of workers' rights in the PRC.
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:25 pm

Someone who is implementing or advocating the implementation of policies to proceed towards a classless society or at least are claiming to be.
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Postby Zeritae » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:28 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:I feel as weird calling them communist as I feel calling Sicilians "white." Just look at the state of workers' rights in the PRC.

sicilians are white, or at least the more northern sicilians...
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:35 pm

Zeritae wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:I feel as weird calling them communist as I feel calling Sicilians "white." Just look at the state of workers' rights in the PRC.

sicilians are white, or at least the more northern sicilians...


I mean white is a social category so I can't really say there's a strict definition, but most sicilians I've seen look indistinguishable from people in North Africa or the Levant. They often have olive brown skin and brown or black hair. Not all of them but most of them. Northern Italians tend to have lighter skin and hair, not northern Sicilians.

Just speaking objectively, Sicilians are brown. But then again, objectively speaking most white people are peach, beige or apricot colored.
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:50 pm

Communism, by definition, is an ideology proposing the establishment of a hypothetical society in which class, state, and currency do not exist theoretically ensuring that everyone in this society is therefor totally equal in every way.

Putting aside how impossible it is to create, let alone sustain, such a society on a scale larger than a small town in the rural Midwest...

  • A "Communist State" is a Socialist State aspiring to achieve Communism (the USSR and it's allies during the Cold War, essentially), as opposed to a state that practices it which would be an oxymoron.
  • A "Communist Party" is the authority behind which Communism is theoretically supposed to be created and therefor their goal is - allegedly - to pursue the achievement of Communism.
  • A "Communist" is someone/something that has embrace the ideology of Communism and works to achieve it's stated goals.

From all this we can deduce the following:

1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.

How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form. The "People's Republic" of China is an Authoritarian, State Capitalist, Plutocratic, Han Chinese Nationalist, Totalitarian Police State that masquerades as a Communist State has been doing so since the Sino-Soviet Split when they realized just how unrealistic and impossible Communism actually is. Also because Mao got high on his own unlimited power, as most autocrats do.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:51 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Communism, by definition, is an ideology proposing the establishment of a hypothetical society in which class, state, and currency do not exist theoretically ensuring that everyone in this society is therefor totally equal in every way.

Putting aside how impossible it is to create, let alone sustain, such a society on a scale larger than a small town in the rural Midwest...

  • A "Communist State" is a Socialist State aspiring to achieve Communism (the USSR and it's allies during the Cold War, essentially), as opposed to a state that practices it which would be an oxymoron.
  • A "Communist Party" is the authority behind which Communism is theoretically supposed to be created and therefor their goal is - allegedly - to pursue the achievement of Communism.
  • A "Communist" is someone/something that has embrace the ideology of Communism and works to achieve it's stated goals.

From all this we can deduce the following:

1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.

How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form. The "People's Republic" of China is an Authoritarian, State Capitalist, Plutocratic, Han Chinese Nationalist, Totalitarian Police State that masquerades as a Communist State has been doing so since the Sino-Soviet Split when they realized just how unrealistic and impossible Communism actually is. Also because Mao got high on his own unlimited power, as most autocrats do.


Fr was the USSR even truly communist?
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:52 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Zeritae wrote:sicilians are white, or at least the more northern sicilians...


I mean white is a social category so I can't really say there's a strict definition, but most sicilians I've seen look indistinguishable from people in North Africa or the Levant. They often have olive brown skin and brown or black hair. Not all of them but most of them. Northern Italians tend to have lighter skin and hair, not northern Sicilians.

Just speaking objectively, Sicilians are brown. But then again, objectively speaking most white people are peach, beige or apricot colored.


Calabrians are fairly olive-brown too, which is odd because I'm Calabrian but I'm white as Hell. Must be the Scot-Irish/German in me.
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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:52 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Communism, by definition, is an ideology proposing the establishment of a hypothetical society in which class, state, and currency do not exist theoretically ensuring that everyone in this society is therefor totally equal in every way.

Putting aside how impossible it is to create, let alone sustain, such a society on a scale larger than a small town in the rural Midwest...

  • A "Communist State" is a Socialist State aspiring to achieve Communism (the USSR and it's allies during the Cold War, essentially), as opposed to a state that practices it which would be an oxymoron.
  • A "Communist Party" is the authority behind which Communism is theoretically supposed to be created and therefor their goal is - allegedly - to pursue the achievement of Communism.
  • A "Communist" is someone/something that has embrace the ideology of Communism and works to achieve it's stated goals.

From all this we can deduce the following:

1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.

How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form. The "People's Republic" of China is an Authoritarian, State Capitalist, Plutocratic, Han Chinese Nationalist, Totalitarian Police State that masquerades as a Communist State has been doing so since the Sino-Soviet Split when they realized just how unrealistic and impossible Communism actually is. Also because Mao got high on his own unlimited power, as most autocrats do.


Fr was the USSR even truly communist?


Under Lenin, definitely. After that? Debatable.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:54 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
I mean white is a social category so I can't really say there's a strict definition, but most sicilians I've seen look indistinguishable from people in North Africa or the Levant. They often have olive brown skin and brown or black hair. Not all of them but most of them. Northern Italians tend to have lighter skin and hair, not northern Sicilians.

Just speaking objectively, Sicilians are brown. But then again, objectively speaking most white people are peach, beige or apricot colored.


Calabrians are fairly olive-brown too, which is odd because I'm Calabrian but I'm white as Hell. Must be the Scot-Irish/German in me.


I believe the northern italians are light skinned because of German, French and Slavic admixture. The autochonous people of the Italian peninsula going back thousands of years were probably dark colored. Many paintings and mosaics I've seen from Roman times depict brown skinned people. Basically your stereotypical Italian.

My friend Tyler asked if I was italian cause "you kinda look italian." Boy I'm Hispanic. My ancestors came from a country right next to Italy, so why would I look that different from Italians?
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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:58 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Calabrians are fairly olive-brown too, which is odd because I'm Calabrian but I'm white as Hell. Must be the Scot-Irish/German in me.


I believe the northern italians are light skinned because of German, French and Slavic admixture. The autochonous people of the Italian peninsula going back thousands of years were probably dark colored. Many paintings and mosaics I've seen from Roman times depict brown skinned people. Basically your stereotypical Italian.

My friend Tyler asked if I was italian cause "you kinda look italian." Boy I'm Hispanic. My ancestors came from a country right next to Italy, so why would I look that different from Italians?


Close, actually. Northern Italians are lighter because of invasions by the Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Lombards, Germans, and Franks throughout the Middle Ages during and following the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. Lot of Germanic tribes were moving in and out of that area when Rome could no longer protect it's borders.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:59 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
I believe the northern italians are light skinned because of German, French and Slavic admixture. The autochonous people of the Italian peninsula going back thousands of years were probably dark colored. Many paintings and mosaics I've seen from Roman times depict brown skinned people. Basically your stereotypical Italian.

My friend Tyler asked if I was italian cause "you kinda look italian." Boy I'm Hispanic. My ancestors came from a country right next to Italy, so why would I look that different from Italians?


Close, actually. Northern Italians are lighter because of invasions by the Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Lombards, Germans, and Franks throughout the Middle Ages during and following the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. Lot of Germanic tribes were moving in and out of that area when Rome could no longer protect it's borders.


Interesting. Northern Italians are kind of like a bridge population between southern Italy and Germany.
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pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
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Postby Kubra » Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:40 pm

Kragholm Free States wrote:
Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:Communism is when the government does stuff, and the more stuff the do the communister it is.


This but unironically.
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Postby New haven america » Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:42 pm

A Stateless, Classless society where The Workers Control the Means of Production
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:49 pm

A utopian dream of a society in which the workers are able to manage and equally share in what they produce, instead of the management taking a a majority of the earnings and leaving them with the crumbs.

Noble, certainly, and some concepts of communism have been successfully implemented.

Although whenever a society tries to shift towards it completely, especially through violence, a strongwo/man tends to seize power and make things just as bad as before, and often worse.
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